I mainly play NB.

But if it was pushed too early ahead of other classes, and made competitive in all content, while also retaining the novelty of cloak, the classes that come after may seem lackluster.

Keep in mind that the later the rework is, the more insights, lessons learned on design, and spontaneous earmarks of design it will have compared to other classes.

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

I have to disagree here.

You’re right about being able to stack stand effects but re-read your own post. Out of the 10 sources of status application only one comes from Sorc … just one.

Nothing else on that list is Sorc Specific which means that being a Sorc doesn’t make those skills any more effective. It’s not as though Sorcs can synergize those status effects better than any other class because any and every other class can slot 9 out of those 10 abilities, it’s just that Sorcs have the passive.

To be honest the main status I see Sorcs using here is Overcharge rather than any of the elementals and that’s really leaning a bit on LA & scribing, also outside of the class skill set.

Running a status effect build can hit hard in PvP but it leaves the build open to quite a lot because in order to maximize it requires specific supporting gear and attention to their mitigation. A status-effect Sorc vs a subclassed crit meta build, for example, is going to have a run for their money because they’re going to have to keep up shields & heal in a rotation versus just spamming LA + skill weaves.

Sorcs are not in a good place. I don’t know who thinks that but this observation really is evidence of that if Sorcs are leaning on status effect output rather than their own class skills.

These passives need to hit hard and the buff makes sense, it provides for a viable means to be competitive in the scope of subclasses builds until the Sorc refresh, which is the whole point. Static at 0.3 & 5% is where it needs to be.

What does the source of the skill have to do with anything? Are you guys just trying to be funny?

Because your argument is that Sorcs are somehow better able to make use of applying status effects.

That, factually, isn’t true because 90% of the sources of applying those status effects are available to every player, they’re not Sorc specific.

This means that, no, Sorcs do not have some extra benefit when it comes to applying status effects, anyone can use Crushing Shock, anyone can run Vateshran, anyone can light attack with a Destro staff, etc.

If Sorcs had clad specific skills that were better able to apply status effects then, yes, you’d be right; Sorcs would have an easier time than other classes but that isn’t the case.

I don’t think it’s right to ask for a passive to be nerfed simply because it synergizes with world skills; especially when the class skills for the class in question are so poor.

Using status effects as a main source of damage in PvP is both interesting and risky; and really only works if the player is running the Signet mythic, which, anyone else can slot too. This leaves a build like that open to quite a lot in PvP despite having some descent damage potential but is far from OP.

My argument is that sorc has an easy time proccing Static Reverbation passive. I'm sorry to say that literally everything you are talking about is irrelevant to the topic...

I'll put it in simple terms to be better understood. We dont consider Wild Adaptation weak because warden can maintain at most chilled and maybe hemorrhaging with its base class skills. We consider it strong because with elemental susceptibility, blood for blood and various other sets and skills warden is able to reach and maintain a respectable number of status effects.

Obviously we dont treat class masteries in a vacuum with only the class skills. That would be, absurd, ill put a stop to this nonsense that non class skills has to be disregarded while considering class masteries. I will also ask you to reconsider your bias on sorc, it seems to be clouding your judgment.

Sorc don't easily trigger Static Reverbation, and Static Reverbation isn't the real reason for Sorc's strength in PvP.

First, Static Reverbation is only easier to trigger when the target's health is low enough.

Second, even on a heavily buffed 21M training dummy, each tick only deals around 10K damage. With Battle Spirit, this drops to around 5K or even lower.

Third, to increase the chance of triggering Static Reverbation, Sorc must equip a large number of DoTs and multi-hit skills. However, since Sorc's class skills don't have many DoTs and multi-hit skills, alternatives must be found from general skills. This reduces Sorc's skill slots, crowding out other survival and sustain skills, forcing Sorc to make trade-offs.

Fourth, when finding alternatives from general skills, most of their active and passive abilities are weaker than class skills.

The real reason Sorc is so strong in PvP is Conservation of Energy. This skill makes the previously almost useless Dark Magic line much stronger, and makes the previously difficult-to-trigger Blood Magic passive ability very easy to trigger. This is equivalent to giving Sorc high-frequency healing, along with resource recovery.

Moreover, when any class's Class Mastery requires relying on general skills to achieve a "passable" or more grade, this is the biggest irony of the class itself. It suggests either that most of the class's skills are useless, or that the developers didn't consider the class's characteristics and style when designing the Class Mastery.

However, I still hope this is simply because Sorc is being reworked at the end of the year, and everything the developers are doing now is just preparation for the year-end refresh.

Savagejack wrote: »

Apologies if this was mentioned already. Can Static Reverberation proc from status effects? I thought it only would from abilities or dots of conscious effort.

Correct, OP made that up.

acanca wrote: »

Static Reverberation

This passive was a huge problem for pvp week 1. It was in a fine state after getting adjusted to 0.5 seconds. Its now back to being too powerful with 0.3 seconds cool down and being buffed to base 5% proc rate.

Part of the problem comes from sorc being too good at being able to proc it. 5% proc base doesnt sound like much but consider that a regular status effect build can deal up to 10 instances of seperate damage per second. For example

1-Vateshran destro proc
2-Burning status effect from vateshran
3-Light attack
4-Concussion from thread of war
5-Crushing shock (frost)
6-Crushing shock (fire)
7-Crushing shock (shock)
8-Chill from crushing shock
9-Burning from crushing shock
10- Concussion from crushing shock
11-Hurricane

10+ instances of seperate damage in a single second with a 5% base proc chance at full hp, skyrocketing to a certainty at lower health thresholds. This isnt just limited to this specific scenario either, bound armamant is 4 instance of seperate damage by itself and is by itself a burst damage and the burst damage having near certainty to proc additional damage turns it from a burst to an easy execute. In fact it turns basically everything in sorcs arsenal to an execute extremely easily.

Malevolent Promise was excluded from pvp for being too war crimey, well, this passive is the actual war crime. Please consider adding a once per second clause to it with battle spirit active. Proccing an extra instance of damage every second easily makes it one of the best pure class passives in the game, simply makes it less toxic by preventing it from being oppressive in pvp.

It takes 60 seconds to test something. I can't prove the Mastery was equiped via a picture, but I'm not making a video for this silly comment. Test it yourself.

Proc's don't proc proc's. Reverberation is counted as a proc. Like proc sets, it can however proc Concussed, only thing I couldn't test is enchants, but they probably don't work since everything else is behaving as normal.

Going back to your list:

1. Vateshran destro proc
2. Burning status effect from vateshran
3. Light attack
4. Concussion from thread of war
5. Crushing shock (frost)
6. Crushing shock (fire)
7. Crushing shock (shock)
8. Chill from crushing shock
9. Burning from crushing shock
10. Concussion from crushing shock
11. Hurricane

Break this down a bit further.. Hurricane ticks on 2s and does nothing on cast, far cry from the 1s tick interval it had 10 years ago or abilities that still do this like Lightning Flood/Blockade, which are useless for PvP.

Light attack is once every second.

Crushing Shock is 3 hits in the same instance, so while it increases your odds by 3x, it's not as advantagous as something like Bound Armaments or Flurry which has a short delay between damage instances, allowing you to proc Reverberation more than once in a 1s window.

There is literally 2 abilities between Lightning Flood (unusable) and Bound Armaments (4s min cooldown) for a Sorc to use, yet your origianl comment acted like Sorc has some crazy amount of extra instances of damage going on to make this passive work. In reality, it's a shadow of its former Implosion self when we could tick once a second with Hurricane, twice a second with Lightning Flood, and once every 2 seconds with Blade Cloak. Obviously it's much different now, but this is your argument and it doesn't do anything substantially more than other classes from the "damage instance" category.

So yeah, you just came up with a random excuse to try and get something nerfed to buff your own class without even understanding how it functions. Focus on your own class, we all deseve to be powerful. Don't get me wrong, it's a very good Mastery for DPS, specifically PVE where you have nearly equal opportunity at all stages of an enemy's health, so the % chance increases gradually, but in PVP, you don't stay lower than 80% of your health at any given time for longer than a second before you're asking to be deleted.

Reverberation's tooltip is slightly weaker than 1 tick of a status effect, definitely weaker than something like Burning Light which has a longer CD, but can be guaranteed. Difference is, status effects can be massively buffed by passives, sets, or now Signet. By your own logic, you should be much more afraid by those builds, which anyone can use and has a much higher chance to proc at full health vs the Mastery's low health + high tick frequency requirment.

This is all to say.. this Mastery is the least of anyone's concern with Calculated Defense, Font of Power, and Conversation of Energy being PvP powerhouses. I love the idea of Implosion (Reverb), but I'd feel like a fool trying to make it work and leaving any of those others on the table.

The silliest part those those 3 Masteries is they don't show up on a death recap, so the casuals will jump to the forums to complain about a Reverb proc that killed them for 500 damage over 20x for 10,000, but they'll be ignorant to the others that are much more potent.