Best Of
Re: Why is everyone so adverse to grouping for NM?
FurryCandyHearts wrote: »I don't think people really are adverse to it. From what I've seen, there's 2 categories of players complaining: either very clueless/new players who didn't follow the news and thought it would be the same as any other zone or forum pvp enjoyers who start freaking out for random reasons just to get reactions.
It kinda sucks, though, when these new and clueless players see posts about grouping being insurmountably hard and become intimidated... When in reality, it's no different from grouping for Craglorn gargoyles and such.
i think it's gross. the house is groosl, pledging is gross the ones you pledge to ate gross, the whole thing is disgusting. Once upon a time you played a rpg to be the hero, to stop the evil and to save the land. ESO has become the place to go commit the evil and relish in it. It's disgusting!
Which to some is roleplaying. Roleplaying/gaming is not always to be the hero. Especially in the Elder Scrolls world.
EDIT: To add more, your opinion is perfectly valid, not trying to diminish it. Just saying others view the event different.
Bguk
2
Re: Make Pyrebrand crit again
Militan1404 wrote: »Militan1404 wrote: »People are already complaining about a mid set like Serpent's Disdain, and you honestly think it's a good idea to power up Pyreband? It's not happening.
When ZOS nerfs something, they usually don't undo it. It's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to grind hard for gear in this game. I'll just fire siege.
I think it's great idea. Asking for nerfs is weird unless something is grossly uncompetitive like Shattered Paths is making pulse gankers right now. Giving pyrebrand crit would make a mediocre set a little better is all. I've yet to have an encounter in group or 1v1 that makes me think Serpents is a problem.
The people who think Pyrebrand a very strong set at the moment must not even use it. I can tell you, it's not.
Its something funny about someone finding something to be grossly uncompetitive and while being a DK.
Personally, I haven't had trouble with shatter path users but I've seen a lot of complaints from people I respect. And don't worry, your class refresh is coming and the big scary DKs won't seem so scary anymore.
What you trying to imply here that DK aint broken? And the solution is not to make everything else broken to.
Trying to imply? I'll be more frank. 100% DK isn't broken. Is it a better pure class right now than any other pure class? Definitely. But that was the intention of ZOS. The plan is for pure classes to end up stronger after each one is refreshed. Once class mastery passives are released, the pure classes will be much stronger and more competitive. And then each class that is refreshed will also be elevated. It just happens that DK was first and if any other class had been first, you'd be complaining about how that class was broken. But to call something broken is to imply it's not working as intended when DK is working exactly as intended.
s3dulo
3
Re: Every Source of Information I Could Find Regarding Night Market's Advertisement as a Group Zone
So when was it advertised as a solo zone? Can you show us any examples of that?
It's not about it being a solo zone, but about soft grouping, like everywhere else in the game where something is hard to solo,
“...you can simply walk through the gates of one of the three connected districts and start exploring. You may want to find allies first, though– the Night Market is challenging content and best handled with others. You’re not required to group, but seeking help in some form would be wise.”
“...It’s encounter-heavy with an emphasis on group play, but don’t let that deter you from checking it out. Joining a group isn’t required, so it’s easy to hop in and play.”
"... If you do risk it alone, find where the action is at and lend a hand!”
The reality is, you can't just "hop in". The instancing makes sure there is nobody there to "lend a hand", there are no groups you can fight alongside and eventually get invited. if you can't or don't want to do the Night Market solo, you have to join a group using chat or group finder and jump to their instance. This makes it instanced group content. Going in there solo is like entering a trial through the front door and "start exploring".
And soloing, dependent on your gear and experience fighting even trash mobs is either impossible or simply not worth the time and effort. Eventually, you'll just try to run to quest objectives not bothering to fight back or fix broken gear.
Toanis
2
Re: Why isn't there a normal Night Market mode?
SilverBride wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »We just think it is accessible for the average player. Because it really is. I am not a great player. I died when I first went in. Now I have unlocked two relics. In my opinion, let players make adjustments rather than ZOS needlessly watering down the event. No need for solo-friendly in a group event, anymore than PVE in a PVP event. That’s my attempt to explain why I am averse to ZOS listening to complaints I think are invalid.
"We think" "it really is" " in my opinion" and "complaints are all invalid" are personal opinions, not facts. Many of us hold opposite opinions.
Also, I have said that I am not asking for a solo mode. (Even though ZOS said it could be soloable.). I just want a mode on par with other normal dungeon and trials so the average player can enjoy it, too.
And once again I will ask, how did it hurt anyone else if a mode was created that would allow a lot more players to enjoy the experience?
Your posts are a broken record. I answered you, but once again you ask,
I was merely replying to your post quoting me. And I still haven't received an answer as to how it would hurt anyone else if a mode was created that would allow a lot more players to enjoy the experience.
On the first page of this thread, I offered a reason why. I didn't flesh it out because to me it seems obvious. Psyphiman explained it much better than I could have.
Bguk
3
Re: Why is everyone so adverse to grouping for NM?
I don't think people really are adverse to it. From what I've seen, there's 2 categories of players complaining: either very clueless/new players who didn't follow the news and thought it would be the same as any other zone or forum pvp enjoyers who start freaking out for random reasons just to get reactions.
It kinda sucks, though, when these new and clueless players see posts about grouping being insurmountably hard and become intimidated... When in reality, it's no different from grouping for Craglorn gargoyles and such.
It kinda sucks, though, when these new and clueless players see posts about grouping being insurmountably hard and become intimidated... When in reality, it's no different from grouping for Craglorn gargoyles and such.
Koshka
3
Re: Why isn't there a normal Night Market mode?
SilverBride wrote: »We just think it is accessible for the average player. Because it really is. I am not a great player. I died when I first went in. Now I have unlocked two relics. In my opinion, let players make adjustments rather than ZOS needlessly watering down the event. No need for solo-friendly in a group event, anymore than PVE in a PVP event. That’s my attempt to explain why I am averse to ZOS listening to complaints I think are invalid.
"We think" "it really is" " in my opinion" and "complaints are all invalid" are personal opinions, not facts. Many of us hold opposite opinions.
Also, I have said that I am not asking for a solo mode. (Even though ZOS said it could be soloable.). I just want a mode on par with other normal dungeon and trials so the average player can enjoy it, too.
And once again I will ask, how did it hurt anyone else if a mode was created that would allow a lot more players to enjoy the experience?
To be honest, most players would funnel into the difficulty of least resistance, which in this case would be this "normal" mode that is soloable, or as easy as most content in this game.
It would fail to truly provide challenge since let's be honest, 12+ people doing "normal" bosses would probably look like what world bosses do now.
It would not encourage players to get out of their comfort zone and face new challenges. It would not encourage people to band together like the current version does.
While someone above mentioned not providing certain rewards, we know the next complaint would be for also getting those rewards.
Finally, a lot of players are trying this content and finding that it truly is accessible. Someone said they are levelling a "Fresh out of the box" character and doing just fine. Also you stated in the past you have done trials, so I'm sure you could handle this too. I can, and I haven't done any trials or even any hard content in ESO.
Re: U50 Feedback Thread for New Item Sets
Shattered Path Signet breaks many different pressure tools in PvP. Rather than gutting the entire playstyle (again), how about we further reduce this mythic's damage done to players? Like make it do 30-40% of its PvE damage instead of 50% or something.
xylena
2
Re: Every Source of Information I Could Find Regarding Night Market's Advertisement as a Group Zone
Here's the problem that most don't seem to understand or maybe just not be thinking about. All the promotional stuff said grouping was easier but not required, and that the Zone was "specifically designed" for groups AND experienced solo players.
Except nothing indicated what level of experience. Ever. ZOS never once mentioned that "hey this is effectively a Public 36-man Trial!" or anything else to imply what the actual strength of things was supposed to be was. What the experience level of players was supposed to be. It was all kept very vague. Yes, we knew it would be "hard" but I think most of us were figuring something more along the lines of Vet Dungeons, maybe Vet DLC Dungeons. And we certainly weren't expecting the trash packs to hit like they do or be damage sponges like they are.
So when we get in and test it on the PTS, we're shocked when the first trash packs annihilate us within seconds. I tried several times on a solid Oakensorc using Sergeant's Mail and Deadly Strike. I've seen other people mention using HA builds too but I was barely able to get my DoTs down and do a HA before I was killed. Even just trying to do HA and spamming my heal was ineffective and I still died without putting a dent in any of the mobs.
Maybe if ZOS had ACTUALLY COMMITTED to saying just what level of content this was, people wouldn't have been so irritated. But in each PTS weekly report thing they only kept saying the same generic copy-pasted response in regards to the difficulty, that it was meant to be challenging. EVEN THEN they never actually took the time to explain what "experienced player" was supposed to mean, what level the content was *meant* to be at. At every turn where they could have explained it to make it clear they failed.
And then they said they adjusted the difficulty after everything. But when the NM goes live...it seems like it's the same thing, that things weren't tuned down at all, and even THEN still NO explanation of just what difficulty level this thing was meant to be. Keep in mind a LOT of people don't have access to the PTS to test it, like all of Console or people who don't have the space for it. There are people who don't have time for it. There are people who don't have any idea it exists. There are people who don't read the articles or watch the livestreams. There are a ton of people who had no way of know what it was like on the PTS, so when THEY go in and find what it's like, since there isn't any indication of what the difficulty level actually is, of course they're going to largely have the same reaction as a number of us did on the PTS.
And it'll keep happening. As more people start playing or come back from breaks or whatever, they'll try the NM (if it's around at that time) and find nothing indicating what difficulty level this is meant to be at. Only vague statements about how it's encouraged to group but not required for experienced players.
Yeah, you can group, but even grouping has a slew of issues that people seem to be acting disingenuous about. For one, the whole thing about faction-specific quests not being able to be shared, and thus people trying to do different quests. The popcap being spread over the whole Zone makes finding groups to just follow hard or to find people to group at all. The fact that if a group is too far in you won't be able to get to them anyway. The fact that if you die you might not be able to get back to your group because of trash packs being too strong. The fact that trying to use the LFG tool has groups that are only trying to do specific things that a person going in might not be wanting to do, and the fact that making their own group for X or Y can get people who ignore that and want to do other things. The fact that people can wind up leaving to the point when a group is too small to continue on. The fact that whole groups can be too weak to clear stuff. A lot of people who are solo by nature don't tend to have many, if any, Guilds they can ask for help, but even being in a Guild or two doesn't mean you're guaranteed to have access to people who want to do the NM. There are a lot of problems with grouping that people who aren't seeing or having issues with are just dismissing like it isn't happening or a problem. It's like when there are actual technical problems with the game but you have people going "well I'M not having issues so it must be everyone elses' computers or other personal hardware/software". Just because you don't see a problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist and the whole argument of "just group" needs to have that kept in mind.
I've said this before, but this is like Craglorn all over again. At least in ore-nerf Craglorn you could go in even on an unoptimized build and do stuff as long as you were smart. This is worse than pre-nerf Craglorn. Which they eventually wound up nerfing because people weren't engaging with it since it was too hard, and people weren't able to do the content because so few people were around to group for the stuff that needed it. And the NM is compounded and made worse than Craglorn was by being limited time, with a whole House as a reward that you can get for just doing the intro quest but surprise, you need to do a number of things to actually unlock certain features like the other wings and the treasury.
Except nothing indicated what level of experience. Ever. ZOS never once mentioned that "hey this is effectively a Public 36-man Trial!" or anything else to imply what the actual strength of things was supposed to be was. What the experience level of players was supposed to be. It was all kept very vague. Yes, we knew it would be "hard" but I think most of us were figuring something more along the lines of Vet Dungeons, maybe Vet DLC Dungeons. And we certainly weren't expecting the trash packs to hit like they do or be damage sponges like they are.
So when we get in and test it on the PTS, we're shocked when the first trash packs annihilate us within seconds. I tried several times on a solid Oakensorc using Sergeant's Mail and Deadly Strike. I've seen other people mention using HA builds too but I was barely able to get my DoTs down and do a HA before I was killed. Even just trying to do HA and spamming my heal was ineffective and I still died without putting a dent in any of the mobs.
Maybe if ZOS had ACTUALLY COMMITTED to saying just what level of content this was, people wouldn't have been so irritated. But in each PTS weekly report thing they only kept saying the same generic copy-pasted response in regards to the difficulty, that it was meant to be challenging. EVEN THEN they never actually took the time to explain what "experienced player" was supposed to mean, what level the content was *meant* to be at. At every turn where they could have explained it to make it clear they failed.
And then they said they adjusted the difficulty after everything. But when the NM goes live...it seems like it's the same thing, that things weren't tuned down at all, and even THEN still NO explanation of just what difficulty level this thing was meant to be. Keep in mind a LOT of people don't have access to the PTS to test it, like all of Console or people who don't have the space for it. There are people who don't have time for it. There are people who don't have any idea it exists. There are people who don't read the articles or watch the livestreams. There are a ton of people who had no way of know what it was like on the PTS, so when THEY go in and find what it's like, since there isn't any indication of what the difficulty level actually is, of course they're going to largely have the same reaction as a number of us did on the PTS.
And it'll keep happening. As more people start playing or come back from breaks or whatever, they'll try the NM (if it's around at that time) and find nothing indicating what difficulty level this is meant to be at. Only vague statements about how it's encouraged to group but not required for experienced players.
Yeah, you can group, but even grouping has a slew of issues that people seem to be acting disingenuous about. For one, the whole thing about faction-specific quests not being able to be shared, and thus people trying to do different quests. The popcap being spread over the whole Zone makes finding groups to just follow hard or to find people to group at all. The fact that if a group is too far in you won't be able to get to them anyway. The fact that if you die you might not be able to get back to your group because of trash packs being too strong. The fact that trying to use the LFG tool has groups that are only trying to do specific things that a person going in might not be wanting to do, and the fact that making their own group for X or Y can get people who ignore that and want to do other things. The fact that people can wind up leaving to the point when a group is too small to continue on. The fact that whole groups can be too weak to clear stuff. A lot of people who are solo by nature don't tend to have many, if any, Guilds they can ask for help, but even being in a Guild or two doesn't mean you're guaranteed to have access to people who want to do the NM. There are a lot of problems with grouping that people who aren't seeing or having issues with are just dismissing like it isn't happening or a problem. It's like when there are actual technical problems with the game but you have people going "well I'M not having issues so it must be everyone elses' computers or other personal hardware/software". Just because you don't see a problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist and the whole argument of "just group" needs to have that kept in mind.
I've said this before, but this is like Craglorn all over again. At least in ore-nerf Craglorn you could go in even on an unoptimized build and do stuff as long as you were smart. This is worse than pre-nerf Craglorn. Which they eventually wound up nerfing because people weren't engaging with it since it was too hard, and people weren't able to do the content because so few people were around to group for the stuff that needed it. And the NM is compounded and made worse than Craglorn was by being limited time, with a whole House as a reward that you can get for just doing the intro quest but surprise, you need to do a number of things to actually unlock certain features like the other wings and the treasury.
Arunei
9
Re: Why isn't there a normal Night Market mode?
This is a zone. It should not have separate instances because then people who need help wouldn't get it because everyone would solo it and leave the ones who need help without aide. It's the same reason that I was opposed to overland difficulty coming as separate instances. Zone content requires large amounts of people to work properly. Dead zones don't work. This is the one of the most popular event the game has ever seen because cooperation already puts it at the level of a vet base game/early dlc level for the most part. The only exception is the calamties/skirmishes, which are trial level. The brazen and argent bosses are literally just those bosses scaled up in HP like the incineration beetles and murklight.
Mechanically they are mostly not a big deal and only become one if you're trying to solo it. The whole thing is a matter of build and a lot of people just want to take glass cannons in there without groups because they either aren't used to grouping or mostly only run with organized groups. So they aren't used to having to build for self sustain.
Dying left and right shows that the player either isn't built for soloing the content and probably isn't running with a group either.
It's about on par with Vet Cradle of Shadows, and actually several of the bosses in the skittering district are just Cradle of Shadows bosses or reusing the mechs of that dungeon.
Mechanically they are mostly not a big deal and only become one if you're trying to solo it. The whole thing is a matter of build and a lot of people just want to take glass cannons in there without groups because they either aren't used to grouping or mostly only run with organized groups. So they aren't used to having to build for self sustain.
Dying left and right shows that the player either isn't built for soloing the content and probably isn't running with a group either.
It's about on par with Vet Cradle of Shadows, and actually several of the bosses in the skittering district are just Cradle of Shadows bosses or reusing the mechs of that dungeon.
