joshisanonymous wrote: »

CalamityCat wrote: »

This is why I stuck with pure class builds. Even with skill styles it would still make no sense for my characters to take one or two class lines that make no sense and don't fit even with their alignment. Also, I think pure builds just have a generally cohesive playstyle and feel that you can't get from illogical pick-and-mix subclass combinations.

My current mindset is that I can still do what I could before subclassing, and fortunately have zero interest in doing vet trials. PvP actually feels better for my main builds, and was the only thing I thought I'd get caught out on. So I stuck with my pure classes. I hate that pure builds take a hit every time something needs "balancing" for subclassing, but I've fully quit chasing meta and parsing on dummies. Even with skill styles I can't see a way to make subclassing suit me or my characters. I can't imagine any dev time being spent sorting the jarring aesthetic mish-mash.

Your point about pure classes having a more cohesive playstyle rings true for me, too. In a way, subclassing now makes pure classes feel like the hybrids in that they're not going to be the best at any one role but they're more flexible. If you want a pure DPS, you should combine 3 DPS lines; a pure tank, 3 tank lines; a pure healer, 3 healer lines. If you go with a pure class, though, you're really playing a hybrid build now.

See, this is the crux of the entire argument, and why people can't agree. Everyone can get the idea that "hard-focused" builds should be more powerful than "jack of all trades," but we all define them differently.

Are we talking about the character's role? Then yes, a Subclassed 3xDPS line should do more damage, but be more fragile than a pureclass, considering the pureclass can do all three roles on one character.
Or are we talking about the character's archetype? At that point, someone who hard-focuses into their three class lines will play a certain way (e.g. DKs tend toward tankiness and DoTs, sorcs toward mobility and distance, etc.), but a Subclassed build can overcome their class's innate weaknesses with a different line.

I personally prefer the second way of thinking - in games like D&D, a character who retains one Class will have access to the most powerful skills, while someone who picks up a multiclass now has more versatility but can't access the most powerful spells of either. As such, there's a reason that players would have to choose one or the other. In the former, it's mostly just "trade things you didn't use for things that give you more power for free." It's not a choice anymore, and it leads to absurd power creep.
...and it's not even well done as is, or else you would see pureclasses be favored in places where you do want to be able to do all three roles like solo arenas or PvP, and you absolutely don't.

@aza_sel The times I was fishing in Cyro and Imp City no one ever fighted me.
Usually players igonre you if you're fishing.

I say let players KEEP every skill line they level and then let us pick abilities from any one we want. Such as, one ability from Sorcerer, one from Dragon Knight, one from Necromancer, one from Templar, one from Warden and one from Nightblade or one of the other remaining classes. THAT would real subclassing. Let us find a mixture that we like and works for our playstyle.

I don’t know ZOS capacity but I hope they aren’t piling too many resources into the vengeance testing stuff. Not many PvPers want to play in a dumbed down environment. It’d be much better to focus on creating a healthy balance to Cyrodiil without subtracting from the game or people’s investment to it.

Vengeance is better for any sort of popluation growth. Used to hate the idea to replace but then they put in a lazy unrestricted subclass system that absolutely tanked player count. Player 24hr peak is now 11039, if that keeps up it's lowest since 2017 free weekend.

The game needs new and returning players. Those players are not going to come back to the same old trash of gear first then latency then skill.

The default load out needs more for newer players though. They also need to have builds of those on the leaderboards viewable somehow. Either direct from the leaderboard or labelled as popular in the default load outs. Not just what the general consensus is, but what the successful leaderboard players are running. Also with community rating on how difficult the build is.