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Re: Gatekeeping and the Beam Meta
SeaGtGruff wrote: »Toxicity and gatekeeping have been around longer than subclassing, longer than the Arcanist class, longer than "HA builds" became a "thing," and... wait for it... longer than ESO has been around! ZOS didn't create them, and doesn't encourage them. In fact, "toxicity" is one of the things you can report another player for-- although there isn't really a subcategory under it that seems appropriate for comments which insult or belittle other players.
Right, toxicity existed before ESO but you’re missing the point entirely. The game doesn’t just let toxicity happen, it creates the conditions for it. Weak sets, poor scaling, and meta funnels punish anyone trying to play differently. That’s what drives exclusion and gatekeeping, not just bad players. Ignoring the design problem doesn’t make it disappear.
Nah it's bad players. There will always be a best set right up until they put us all in the same gear like the PvP tests that are happening. Then players will want to kick you for not running to next pull quick enough or standing in the wrong spot or who knows what. Those bad players are still going to be bad players.
What changes would make the bad players suddenly become decent?
kargen27
8
Re: This is how games die
I'm a new player since late May of this year. The first months of playing were amazing and I played A LOT. But since that Whitestrake’s Mayhem event, something died in me. I guess, it made me realize and actually see that this came actually is — an online MMO game. First and foremost. No way around it. That's the crushing reality. I'm not a fan of online games and especially MMOs. I'm a single player TES fan and I've been playing ESO like it's a single player game mixed with some online components.
The illusion was strong until Whitestrake’s Mayhem event. It broke the illusion for me. Traumatized me, even. Since then, I don't ever go to Cyrodiil and don't play battlegrounds anymore. I got really depressed about the game after that event. Fortunately, right after that ZOS dropped ESO plus trial and I was able to dive into new stories and zones. But the illusion was lost and the trauma was real. This is an online game. This is a MMO. No way around it. I'm grieving, no be honest. The game is basically already dead to me. I still have a lot of quests and zones to explore but it's doesn't feel the same way it felt in those first months. And I understand that what I want this game to be, what I want it to become with the future updates, is not what MMO fans want and not what ZOS wants. It will never be the game I want it to be. I will never see the things I want to see. So what are the perspectives for me? I don't see any.
The illusion was strong until Whitestrake’s Mayhem event. It broke the illusion for me. Traumatized me, even. Since then, I don't ever go to Cyrodiil and don't play battlegrounds anymore. I got really depressed about the game after that event. Fortunately, right after that ZOS dropped ESO plus trial and I was able to dive into new stories and zones. But the illusion was lost and the trauma was real. This is an online game. This is a MMO. No way around it. I'm grieving, no be honest. The game is basically already dead to me. I still have a lot of quests and zones to explore but it's doesn't feel the same way it felt in those first months. And I understand that what I want this game to be, what I want it to become with the future updates, is not what MMO fans want and not what ZOS wants. It will never be the game I want it to be. I will never see the things I want to see. So what are the perspectives for me? I don't see any.
Re: Rich Lambert's Comments About The Current State of Balance
moderatelyfatman wrote: »Yep, preaching to the choir here.wolfie1.0. wrote: »I just want my combat to feel rewarding and be able to show progress. Here is how I feel like ZOS treats combat.
I feel like I am climbing a hill to reach an objective and anytime I progress up the hill the path I take gets blocked by some arbitrary change that ZOS does, and every so often they lure me back up the hill with some enticing change, only to block the path again. It feels like im trying to invade a castle where the engineers I hired to open paths for me are instead impeding my progress while offering occasional good results.
Like yall should be helping us reach the top and excel, but dont want to put through the effort to do so.
Case in point. The suggested skill choice guides are out of date for new players and don't offer any real build value. Yall dont even update those to help players out. There are stats that still dont make sense and are not explained in game (crit rating vs % as one).
I can only get kicked down the dps progress hill so many times before I just won't climb it anymore, and many have either done that or just left.
I remember when the meta changed every three months and people were spending a ridiculous amount of time and gold in keeping up with it.
<snip>
It was a bit more palatable back then because despite the frustration, there was still some semblance of uniqueness between classes. Many are now choosing to not bother beyond one or two of their characters because they'd essentially just be copies of the same character.
Re: Anyone for the Writhing Fortress??? FINALLY Completed
I have made it as far as the Infirmium(sp) boss (the other side of that level is currently unexplored). Ye Gods.
Re: Rich Lambert's Comments About The Current State of Balance
One thing I wanted to bring up that is important here, even if people are fine with the current balance. As a side story, a few years back when my friends dragged me into Destiny 2 there was a meta that was nerfed after being active for some time. One of the stats in that game, with stats ranging from 0-100, gave players 40% reduced incoming damage with that stat maxed. Anyone who took content seriously maximized that stat, and anyone else would just take more damage than expected. If Bungie wanted to add hard content, whose health do they balance it around, people who take 40% reduced damage, or those who don't? If you balance around camp A, you make that stat mandatory, and if you balance around group B, group A faces no challenge.
Looking back at the current state of ESO, how will ZOS have to design content to keep it engaging? More cleave, more damage sponges, more situations where if you aren't running an optimal build you'll face more and more obtuse obstacles. If ZOS wants new content to continue to be engaging, they need to design it around the abilities the players have, and the hard content will be designed around the peak of what players can do, over time anything less will erode away.
Looking back at the current state of ESO, how will ZOS have to design content to keep it engaging? More cleave, more damage sponges, more situations where if you aren't running an optimal build you'll face more and more obtuse obstacles. If ZOS wants new content to continue to be engaging, they need to design it around the abilities the players have, and the hard content will be designed around the peak of what players can do, over time anything less will erode away.
CP5
5
Re: Gatekeeping and the Beam Meta
Hey everyone,
I’ve been playing ESO since beta, and one of the things I’ve always loved is how diverse the community can be - different builds, different playstyles, different people all coming together.
But lately, I feel like discrimination and gatekeeping are at an all-time high.
Instead of helping or supporting each other, people are being excluded or mocked for their playstyle, identity, or simply not matching someone else’s “meta.”
Here’s an example that happened today, in vet pledge, so fairly medium LVL content, we're not talking about trifecta or else huh:
Meanwhile, this main arcanist :
- Left after 1 wipe
- Didn't focus adds and that's what wiped the group
- Had like 20k hp (no food buff?) and DIED FIRST
This is what happens when design forces everyone into a single box. People don’t want to carry anyone who doesn’t fit the exact mold, and players who experiment or just want to enjoy a different style get punished for it. I keep seeing people point fingers at the ESO community for being “toxic” or “gatekeeping,” but honestly? The root of the problem is ZOS.
ZOS keeps pushing heavy attack sets, but they’re some of the weakest and most frustrating designs I’ve ever seen. At the same time, everything is being funneled into the beam meta. The end result? Players are stuck in a corner: either you run the one style that ZOS clearly wants, or you get insulted, excluded, and told you’re “unviable.”
It’s not just about players being mean, it’s about how the game is designed. If sets and builds were actually balanced, if multiple playstyles were equally viable, there wouldn’t be this endless discrimination against anyone who isn’t running the current meta.
And here’s the real kicker: ZOS keeps advertising ESO with the slogan “Play how you want.” But the reality is the opposite, set design and balancing push everyone into the same narrow beam meta. If you actually try to “play how you want,” you’re punished for it even in basic content, whether through weak sets, bad scaling, or being excluded from groups. The marketing and the gameplay direction just don’t line up.
I wonder how much of this is due to the general decline in the skill level of the playerbase?
There seems to be a much higher number of players these days who are doing hard modes in dlc dungeons with only 300 CP on arcanists.
Re: “Joining Encounter in Progress” should have a confirmation check
Ragnarok0130 wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »True but speedrunners aren't the ones constantly complaining and making posts here about people who go too slow.scrappy1342 wrote: »"they can make their own group" goes both ways.
A. They're the bad guys. The entire point of rewards for random dungeons is to get people into the queue so that those who need to do certain content can find people to do it with. Viewing the rewards as the sole point of doing randoms and thus disregarding the entire purpose you're there to fulfill is a short-sighted, self-involved, thoughtless way to behave.
B. The system favors them. See a chest? Ported away before you can loot it. Need to do dialogue on a base-game dungeon? Ported away before you can do so. Feel like skipping mobs is cheap and failing to actually engage with the content? Doesn't matter if three of you feel that way. All it takes is one person who only values speed. That one gets their way every. Single. Time.
What does a bad guy who's winning have to complain about?
It's amazing to me how many people have forgotten this or just don't care, but you're being rewarded for helping people. HELP THEM.
Negative, the bad guy is the person who needs to do the quest but doesn't speak up like an adult in group chat telling the group members that he needs to do the quest and then gets so bent out of shape when people just complete the content that he rage posts on the forums about speed runners.
The game's been out for 11 years so people assume the others are doing the run for transmutes or gear unless someone says they're doing the quest when we start. Notice this doesn't happen when a new dungeon comes out since it's assumed that people are doing the quest until the dungeon has been out for a while.
Because it never happens whenever a quest holder does speak up right?