Markytous wrote: »

The fact that the entirety of class balance was basically a non-issue at the dev office overnight by way of subclassing but tweaking potions/food would "break the game" (by words of combat lead) has not escaped my mind as of yet. Buff weapon skills, nerf class skills into the ground. Subclassing denies the existence of classes. Remove class set restrictions. Remove "primary class" restrictions. Go full sandbox. Its just not fun anymore.

I suspect that the patch 35 changes were entirely for balancing damage on a spreadsheet. If everyone used Rapid Strikes no matter the class, it makes the combat devs' jobs a lot easier.

Too bad that it removes the unique playstyle of each class. The old phrase 'Not all that matters can be measured, not all that can be measured matters' is truer here than ever.

And subclassing is the final nail in the coffin for class diversity outside of role playing.

Ingenon wrote: »

In my limited experience playing multiplayer online games, each MMO game has a meta build for damage dealers. For example, the few times I have played Fallout 76 I have noticed that most people that show up for a seasonal boss fight event are using one meta build. I do not care that ESO has a meta build for damage dealers also. I have been playing ESO since Morrowind chapter, and I have seen several different meta builds for damage dealers come and go.

I understand that this approach that MMO games seem to tend to take is hard on players that want to have one character that does everything for years of play. However, ESO is like other MMO in that it allows multiple alts. I decided early on to build one alt of each starting class. So I don't get left in the dust when ESO does another balance change, and a different build becomes the one build to rule them all.

There will always be a meta so stop complaining is a common sentiment which hides the real problem ESO has compared to other MMOs.

From my experience with Guild Wars 2 (2k+ hours) and briefly with Final Fantasy 14 (200 hours), there is a meta in each class. While the classes are not perfectly balance and are not necessarily meant to be (some are more challenging than others to play), they tend to be close enough so that the highest damage dealers in actual content tend to be the best players.

This is ESO biggest problem: it only has one meta. In PvE even the best nightblade players will struggle to put out the damage numbers of a competent arcanist in most fights. This is unless the nightblade subclasses into Herald of the Tome does the green beam. This removed all but the top pureclass nightblade, necro and warden players from endgame.

PvP is even worse since there isn't really an option of 'play how you want' unless what you want is to be a mobile parsing dummy for all the other players.

SilverBride wrote: »

I was in a group yesterday and called out that there was a chest. I unlocked it but was pulled into an encounter in progress before I could loot it. A minute later I saw another chest that I called out but once again I was pulled away before I could loot it.

Yeah, that's not right. Mechanics should favor those playing as intended.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Ezhh wrote: »

Yes, of course meta doesn't matter at all.

Unless:

• You want to be wanted by any group that can actually clear harder content.
• You like to complete as many achievements as you can.
• You are any level of competitive and like to try reach big numbers.
• You like to learn about game mechanics and test builds to find what gives the best results.
• You like to feel efficient and powerful when playing.
• You want to feel like you are keeping up with and not holding back your friends/groups who run meta setups.
• You like the challenge of clearing the most difficult content.

Sure, there is always going to be a meta. The problem is when the gap gets so big.

I am so tired of PvE damage dealer being Herald of the Tomb + whatever currently supports it best. If the devs are honestly happy with this state, I'm glad I've stopped supporting via ESO+.

Any Build has been able to clear content and achievements long before subclassing, and still can after. Its not the Devs responsibility to make Trial groups accept you. I've played plenty of Trials on some subpar setups before.

Many problems we blame on the game or the Devs are problems of our own making.

What's the hardest level of content you've completed with these subpar builds, and was it just you or the whole group running subpar builds? I ask because unless a group is doing the trifectas from the last few years with these set ups your argument falls a bit flat. I've done plenty of vet trials on subpar builds myself, even trifectas like GH and GS. It doesn't mean much given issues of damage creep since their release and difficulty level compared to something like Unstoppable, where the difficulty ramps up massively if you run anything other than beam (if only due to the mechanics when fighting Xoryn).

But anyway, if you know a group that will let me prog OC trifecta on my non-subclassed parse sorc DD (aka my main that I really miss playing) please let me know. I'd give a lot to play her again but... insert many of the points from my original post.


Oh, and to be very clear - I don't expect the devs to make groups accept me and I have no idea where you're getting that from. I do expect them to make a combat system that I find interesting and engaging and to be able to handle the fundamentals of basic game balance if they're going to get more money out of me though.

Recent wrote: »

alakeyfox wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

alakeyfox wrote: »

I've maxxed out his favour without playing ToT at all, so not sure this is even an issue?

You may have maxed out his Rapport. But you can't get the Zerith-Var's Favor Achievement without playing ToT. Which in turn is required for The Twilight Path achievement. Both of which are required to get Zerith-Var's companion trinket which grants you his perk.

Didn't know that, thanks. But from that page it says "Complete any Tales of Tribute Daily Quest with Zerith", meaning you could just play a match vs an NPC, in which case I definitely think it's perfectly fine as is. If it was forced to be a PvP match, I'd have more of an issue with it.

It says that but after I played several tot games not only with the novice nps but also with players in looking for group i still did not earn his favour. You have to win several games of tot to be able to pick up tot daily then do a tot daily to get his favour

Playing with a person is not completing the daily. It's a daily quest. You get it after doing the intro. The intro quest teaches you the basics of the game, and tells you what cards to play. It also takes you the NPC you need to talk to in order to do the daily so you know where to go since she's in a building. After that, you just need to win 1 game against an NPC while on her daily.

It is a quick and easy thing

I think it is fine the way it is, and I believe Tales of Tribute is the worst addition to the game in it's long history. Winning one daily isn't that difficult, and it is still the only ToT daily I have ever done.

Back quite a few years ago when another dev was preparing to release a new game, they had livestreams where I was able to watch right from my PS4 without any special apps or anything. You might have needed a twitch account to comment or something, I don’t have that so I can’t say. There was text scrolling down the side of the screen. I don’t know how they did it, but it was a nice feature. I could just search for the event in the schedule and click on it. The game was only coming out on one platform so it might have been easier to set up, I don’t know if it would be more complicated for multiple platforms like ESO.

If I have to log into a computer to watch then it just won’t happen. I don’t have a Reddit account either. I have no idea how a discussion works on that site, I just follow searches to a certain page. I don’t really use that site much but I don’t have any problem with it. I am probably ignorant of anything that might be going on there.

I’m not disappointed that I missed this discussion. I think it would just frustrate me even more about the state of the game. If they aren’t going to listen to skinnycheeks they won’t listen to me.

I don't mind it at all. Sometimes I'm lagging behind or maybe even took a wrong turn, so I'm glad when I get pulled into the encounter. I've been in the situation where I've seen a chest or I didn't have a chance to loot the last mob, but no biggie.

I'd like it less if we had to wait a while because a group member or two were taking their time looting every crate and talking to every (non-essential) NPC. That's guildie/group finder stuff.

Having said that, I'm not fond of speedrunners. I'd much rather progress at a decent clip, killing everything along the way. But a pug is a pug. You roll with what you get, and if you can't do that, don't queue.