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Re: Update 48 Combat/Balancing Changes
ZOS constantly moving the goal posts. Their comments always boil down to:
Can you imagine they were actually honest about update 47 and 48 in April?
"Please buy our 2025 content pass to get access to a chapter you normally would have had access to all at once, this time, we've spread it out over months to hold your invested money and time hostage. Don't expect any major updates in Q3/Q4, we're working on selling you the content pass for 2026."
Here's some examples of the goal posts moving:
My favourite new one they're working on:
- "Be patient, we're working on it"
- "We want to watch how things play out first"
- "We don't want to rock the boat too much outside of major updates"
- "We don't want to rock the boat too much outside of minor updates"
- "This is a minor update, most of our big changes are for the next big update the team is hard at work on"
- "We focussed on bug fixing, so don't expect any large changes to combat" - Proceeds to have the same number of minor fixes, and nothing of substantial issue like Overload Ult dsync or Corpse limit.
Can you imagine they were actually honest about update 47 and 48 in April?
"Please buy our 2025 content pass to get access to a chapter you normally would have had access to all at once, this time, we've spread it out over months to hold your invested money and time hostage. Don't expect any major updates in Q3/Q4, we're working on selling you the content pass for 2026."
Here's some examples of the goal posts moving:
- Hybridization - Implemented aprox. 4 years ago, in the recent AMA, they commented on consumable reworks being scrapped because it would result in nerfs. Uhhh no one cares about consumables, give us major prophecy/savagery and brutality/sorcery on pots, we can wait on the rest.
- Update 35 (13 updates ago, aprox. 3 years 3 months), do I need to even explain this?
- Grave Lord Sacrifice - Update 41 - 0 meaningful changes since, despite claiming it was a work in progress. In fact, it's been relatively nerfed via Flame Skull corpse gen moving to the base skill.
- Update 46 - Subclassing... very obvious buffs required for underwhelming skill lines, 2 updates later, nothing of substance, only nerfs to outliers like Banner/Grim Focus.
My favourite new one they're working on:
- "Vengence campaign is just a test, we've spent years developing brand new skills with unique mechanics that vastly differ from the original counterparts in some ways. We've also invested time in a new UI to accomidate call of duty style loadouts that give access to performant, super engaging passives like "+3% max HP". We're totally not wasting developement time and resources that could be better spent on improving the core base game experience or ignoring subclassing and set balance for 500+ sets. The mode is popular any time it's available, not because it's treated like an event with a golden pursuit, no way. It's just a test, don't worry about BG 2.0 and the 1 sided matches it introduced or the terrible MMR system we implemented. 4v4v4 definitely wouldn't fix that. It's just a test."
Re: long load times on the EU server.
Not for nothing, but if you have addons, especially trading addons that will be contributing to the slow load times. I say especially as they are all now playing catch up after the trader fix.
Re: Update 48 Combat/Balancing Changes
MincMincMinc wrote: »tomofhyrule wrote: »I hear a lot of noise about GW2. It’s probably not for me because I’m in ESO because of the TES part, and I’ve been spending my time back in Skyrim and BG3, but I do find it interesting at the number of ESO players jumping to GW2.
There's just as much noise in the GW2 forums about combat balance and PvP vs PvE priority as there is in the ESO forums.
Is it really still surprising to people that a 300 employee company suffocated for years by corporate quotas struggles to satisfy 10k player opinions? People are always going to complain of course, its just the nature of it all.
ESO is in the position where we went for years and years of just ballooning the game up with releases to meet quotas. Where they should have double backed to flatten out the roadbumps.
And? Both games have around the same number of employees, both games have the same complaints, and GW2 also introduced what is in effect a season pass. The difference is that GW2 base game is free. The grass is always greener.
Re: Update 48 Combat/Balancing Changes
tomofhyrule wrote: »I hear a lot of noise about GW2. It’s probably not for me because I’m in ESO because of the TES part, and I’ve been spending my time back in Skyrim and BG3, but I do find it interesting at the number of ESO players jumping to GW2.
There's just as much noise in the GW2 forums about combat balance and PvP vs PvE priority as there is in the ESO forums.
Re: Update 48 Combat/Balancing Changes
MincMincMinc wrote: »Even if they did a pre-subclassing skill reorganization, lets be honest it probably would have been a shitshow still. They did say on the livestream the following PTS cycle we will see more balancing for live combat. TBH with vengeance going on it feels like a waste in a way. Why do a large pass on a game system that you may find out needs to be overhauled or replaced down the line? Could just be that subclassing released so messily that they need to patch it in the meantime.
Just seems like in the meantime itd make more sense to complete hybridization and iron out what stats should even be in the game to begin with. Why do we still distinguish between Weapon and spell anything? Crits? Damage? Resists? Why not get rid of the convoluted duplicates and then you could simplify tons of calculations to not compare to figure out which one is more or less.
ESO has around four significant updates per year and has an absolutely massive amount of sets and items.
It is highly unlikely that they can rebalance everything in a good way in a small number of updates.
As a result, even if you plan on making significant changes in the long run you will probably want to have shorter term changes to get you into a better position for the long term changes.
Additionally, part of game development is about appearances.
Pretty much any amount of balance changes is going to leave to some level of frustration as people don't necessarily love change but, when people don't feel the game is in a great place and you seem to be doing very little when it comes to balance and you aren't making many updates per year it can look really bad.
Re: Update 48 Combat/Balancing Changes
Thing is, I see so much blame tossed at subclassing for things that openly existed prior to subclassing.... this is NOT to say that it is perfect, or doesn't need work... but the issue was ALWAYS there. Before every PTS cycle is even complete, streamers were posting the new meta... some even making pay pages, so that you can BUY the meta from them.
And there are people that are ALWAYS trying to squeeze every point of damage they can possibly get.... and those people will find that way, no matter what is in the game. And the only way to stop it would be to make every set the same, every skill the same, and the ONLY thing being different is the color your class happens to be ......
That said, subclassing does open ideas and possibilities... and it doesn't have to be a super meta.... I have a character I made that is an elementalist - does it do huge damage... no, I get, maybe, 80 to 90K on a trial dummy.... and run about 30 to 35k in actual trials, where I am not always behind a target, getting every possible bonus or point of damage with perfect 100% uptime of every possible buff......however, the character works well, and it is FUN to play.....and I do enough to pull my weight in a trial. I even scribed a burst heal with AOE to help support my healers, if they are busy elsewhere.... swapping in that, or a ranged interrupt from a staff, if that is needed.
Subclassing can be a big help in creating a character idea you had kicking around, and make it work... I am a fan of Shadow and Bone from Netflix... I wanted to make a "Squaller" which is an air mage - before Subclassing, I was sort of able to make it work, but had to rely HEAVILY on sets to form the idea I wanted... So, I ran around with Kargaeda's and Relequin - and had to use Oakensoul to get buffs without the visuals that would have ruined my character concept.
Now, I can subclass out and build the character, using those sets, because the visuals are great, Hurricane from Sorc, and the ultimate from Warden Ice, which is a big tornado, plus the one skill where the winds whirl around you.... and since I do NOT need to rely on Oakensoul, I can go with a 2 bar, and build a VERY thematic character WITHOUT having to short myself of a second 5 piece set, so I can have the tornados from the monster set to make my build work... last time, I had to use Willpower as my off set, with a training piece, and run one bar......., because that was the ONLY way to get what I wanted, and still have the mythic that made it work.
Back to my Squaller, it is not a meta build, but it is a LOT of fun to tear things apart with the winds... AND I can use it in a trial and do well enough, that I am not a weak link. That is what Subclassing was built for..... and what I think was the actual goal for introducing it....
The issue is that we all give so much credence to the min/maxers, that we don't actually try and go our own way and build what we would play, as fun..... is there a place for the arcanist beam? Yes... but a LOT of people are only taking it because they have been told that it is necessary.... it is not. We need to push FUN play, not OPTIMAL play, as the standard.....
Auldwulfe
P.S. I am now working on a Heartrender... watch the series, you will understand.
And there are people that are ALWAYS trying to squeeze every point of damage they can possibly get.... and those people will find that way, no matter what is in the game. And the only way to stop it would be to make every set the same, every skill the same, and the ONLY thing being different is the color your class happens to be ......
That said, subclassing does open ideas and possibilities... and it doesn't have to be a super meta.... I have a character I made that is an elementalist - does it do huge damage... no, I get, maybe, 80 to 90K on a trial dummy.... and run about 30 to 35k in actual trials, where I am not always behind a target, getting every possible bonus or point of damage with perfect 100% uptime of every possible buff......however, the character works well, and it is FUN to play.....and I do enough to pull my weight in a trial. I even scribed a burst heal with AOE to help support my healers, if they are busy elsewhere.... swapping in that, or a ranged interrupt from a staff, if that is needed.
Subclassing can be a big help in creating a character idea you had kicking around, and make it work... I am a fan of Shadow and Bone from Netflix... I wanted to make a "Squaller" which is an air mage - before Subclassing, I was sort of able to make it work, but had to rely HEAVILY on sets to form the idea I wanted... So, I ran around with Kargaeda's and Relequin - and had to use Oakensoul to get buffs without the visuals that would have ruined my character concept.
Now, I can subclass out and build the character, using those sets, because the visuals are great, Hurricane from Sorc, and the ultimate from Warden Ice, which is a big tornado, plus the one skill where the winds whirl around you.... and since I do NOT need to rely on Oakensoul, I can go with a 2 bar, and build a VERY thematic character WITHOUT having to short myself of a second 5 piece set, so I can have the tornados from the monster set to make my build work... last time, I had to use Willpower as my off set, with a training piece, and run one bar......., because that was the ONLY way to get what I wanted, and still have the mythic that made it work.
Back to my Squaller, it is not a meta build, but it is a LOT of fun to tear things apart with the winds... AND I can use it in a trial and do well enough, that I am not a weak link. That is what Subclassing was built for..... and what I think was the actual goal for introducing it....
The issue is that we all give so much credence to the min/maxers, that we don't actually try and go our own way and build what we would play, as fun..... is there a place for the arcanist beam? Yes... but a LOT of people are only taking it because they have been told that it is necessary.... it is not. We need to push FUN play, not OPTIMAL play, as the standard.....
Auldwulfe
P.S. I am now working on a Heartrender... watch the series, you will understand.
Re: Vengeance 4 loadouts and perks
Looking at those loadouts, it seems ZOS may have begun to recognise that having WD/SD both affect healing and damage output simultaneously was a bad idea.
I personally would support a complete change to those stats, and have it as offensive power (damage) and defensive power (affecting shields and healing) and split the stats.
I personally would support a complete change to those stats, and have it as offensive power (damage) and defensive power (affecting shields and healing) and split the stats.
Re: You can rollback a feature of the game. You choose:
I'm mostly ok with hybridization, but the glory days of ESO were when we had none of the listed things in game. I'd be OK with account wide titles, but the way they implemented account wide achievements was a fail. It removed the need for alt toons almost entirely.
reazea
4
Re: You can rollback a feature of the game. You choose:
Subclassing has, predictably, made an over-arching meta while turning power creep into a firehose. But this has its roots in hybridization. Once that domino fell, this was the expected outcome. Next stop, massive nerfs to all of the "overperforming" skill lines. 
