WRONG FEEDBACK SOURCE Streamers don't represent most players

willlienellson

ZOS Focuses way too much on the feedback of elite "celebrity" gamers while they roundly ignore player consensus and feedback on the forums as a matter of course. It's a problem.
Original Post Below:
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Apparently, right now, a select elite of ESO youtubers like Sypher and Deltia, etc are meeting in person with Zenimax after being invited to the headquarters.

While these youtubers provide a service with their content, they hardly represent the ESO player base neither formally nor informally. They most often represent each other. They represent a micro-industry that operates along side ESO. If anything in-game, they represent a small minority of elite guilds that don't experience ESO like the rest of us and are not good representatives.

Please allow me to explain and provide examples.

PvP: I'm not suggesting any of the specific youtubers or "celebrity players" cheat (although some do and have been banned for it), but they also don't experience playing against cheating, or even against OP players, in the same way. Members of this class of ESO players avoid combat with each other. Many of the known cheaters in this game belong to the same guilds as these elite celebrity ESO players. That doesn't mean the celebrity youtubers are cheating, but it usually means the cheaters don't fight against them. This results in this group having an unrealistically casual viewpoint on cheating as something more benign than it is.

Exploits/Secrets: And exploiting game glitches is the cousin of cheating. Things that aren't working as intended, but are unlikely to get you banned, are passed around as open-secrets within the group and become staples of builds, but are not shared publicly because they don't want them fixed.

Here are two examples of fixed exploits that people weren't getting banned for, that I think I can provide since they no longer work.

1) You could double enchant Flanking Set jewelry with a total of 6 jewelry glyphs instead of 3.
2) You could glitch out Hist Bark set to give a dodge bonus even after you took the set off.

So while you were making the hard choices about how to enchant your jewelry, some players were not. When you were spending 3000 stamina to cast Shuffle, or wearing 5 pieces of Hist Bark, others were dodging with neither.

I'm not accusing anyone of doing these things, but I know the people who did do these things are embedded within that small community. So, at it's most benign, this colors the feedback and impressions of the players in that community which are passed on to Zos as apparently about the only feedback they are actually interested in.

Powercreep: Even if none of the youtube celebrity player cheat, or exploit, or take advantage of tricks....the higher ceiling of performance that is enjoyed on average in these communities is exacerbating the power creep problem in this game. Members of this sector of the community are always the first to say, "This game offers me no challenge. VMA is too easy. This is too easy. That is too easy".

Balancing: Their opinion of balance rarely reflects the community because they rarely face players utilizing abilities to their maximum effectiveness due to the fact that players within this class avoid fighting each other. This is the only game I've ever played where friends cannot play against each other. I've had several of the people I consider members of this niche group actually tell me point blank, "Friends don't kill each other in PvP. I'll give you a pass and you give me a pass. Stop fighting against me or I'm taking you off friends list".

Instead of two great players with great builds fighting each other and learning that certain abilities are indeed out of balance, they pass by each other, high-fiving one another as they farm the pugs from each others alliances and convince themselves that the game is perfectly balanced but THEY are individually "Gods of PvP".
These players don't have experiences in the game that would allow them to adequately represent the larger player base.

The resources were used to have this elite youtube gathering session at Zenimax would have been better spent reading the forums, selecting a few issues with broad community consensus, and then having an internal meeting on how to best address those concerns. But that's too much to hope for.

Yes, I'm painting with a broad brush. There are exceptions to every rule and I'm not trying to disparage anyone specifically. I don't blame anyone for accepting the invitation. This is a rebuke of how Zos operates.

I subscribe to Deltia's channel, I like his content, and his personality. But I don't like him as a representative of ESO players.

If you like their videos, that's fine. If you run their builds, that's great. If you think I'm full of crap, that's okay. And Zos can invite whoever they want on a sleepover.
But, if you've ever wondered why this game is balanced around the top 1% of players and the roleplayers being bought off with mount reskins with everyone in the middle ignored, THIS IS WHY.

[Edit to remove mention of moderator actions and political references]

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

leepalmer95

Hey man at least these streamers can spell ZeniMax right.

LrdRahvin

I said this in thread that got deleted, so I'll say it here too:


This game is too far gone for me to care anymore.

willlienellson

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Hey man at least these streamers can spell ZeniMax right.

Oh darn. That completely refutes everything I said. Totes.
I didn't even bold the corporate name, or capitalize it in the middle. I'm so ashamed of myself.

Ackwalan

ZOS doesn't take criticism well. This will also get closed, but not for the reason then tell you.

Phinix1

Streamers do what they do to get sponsors, NOT to "represent the players" or some other starry-eyed nonsense.

I have never seen anything productive come of these meetings. If anything, the primary purpose it serves is to pacify the most vocal members of the community so people like Deltia will maybe not be so quick to dis things like casino crates next time, since they are being given special treatment. Less likely to bite the hand that feeds and all. So they throw 'em a bone.

People with legitimate constructive criticism are most often flatly ignored and frequently demonized and attacked by people on the forums thinking they are doing their part to "make positivism for the sake of it great again."

I have never met a company or community so allergic to constructive criticism as this one. Here it is treated like anything that isn't kitten memes and compliments is an evil, hostile attack against everything good and right in the world.

Sheesh...

Also, I think it's pretty crappy how mod and addon authors are always left out in the cold and treated sort of like second class citizens next to their PR pets. They are seemingly just taken for granted for the most part.

We are expected to fix bugs and generate value for the company for free. We don't even get crown perks or community picks for some meaningless title or anything. Fine whatever, I do it as a hobby. But so do streamers. Yet streamers get big time sponsorship and MONEY for THEIR hobby.

I'd be lucky to make enough in donations to pay my monthly sub.

Then when it comes time to talk to the people that are generating hype for the game who gets invited? The twitch crowd of course. Meh. More fuel for the meta-chasing homogenization of all classes and builds.

And ZOS STILL won't balance PVE and PVP separately (pure laziness) so every patch they further destroy unique play styles to counter the current PVP meta that people like Sypher and Fengrush and Deltia create.

Seems legit. Only invite echos to the chamber.

leepalmer95

willlienellson wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Hey man at least these streamers can spell ZeniMax right.

Oh darn. That completely refutes everything I said. Totes.
I didn't even bold the corporate name, or capitalize it in the middle. I'm so ashamed of myself.

Most popular streamers tend to play all classes, they tend to have a lot of play time in the game. They play the game at a very high level and know what they are talking about.

So why shouldn't zos bring in high end players for testing? Is that such a bad thing.

Also i capitalised ZeniMax in the middle because that is how it is.

Molec

This is nothing but posturing: They invite popular and vocal ESO celebs to "Playtest" to make you believe that the community have a say in the game, all whilst stealth buffing the TOS and giving the middle finger to long term subscribers by charging them the price of the base game at release for content compairable to the first PVE DLC with an added class that was removed after the first beta. £40 for the base "Morrowind" or £100 for the "Collectors Edition".

Who would have seriously paid £100 for the collectors edition of Orsinium? This shii is getting out of hand!

LrdRahvin

Phinix1 wrote: »

I have never met a company or community so allergic to constructive criticism as this one.

^ this right here ^

willlienellson

leepalmer95 wrote: »

So why shouldn't zos bring in high end players for testing? Is that such a bad thing.

The answer to those two questions is the premise of the thread. Sooooooo

laksikus

Arent they going to zenimax to get a sneakpeak for Morrowind expansion?

At least i know of a german TES team that has the same thing at London this month.

silky_soft

leepalmer95 wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Hey man at least these streamers can spell ZeniMax right.

Oh darn. That completely refutes everything I said. Totes.
I didn't even bold the corporate name, or capitalize it in the middle. I'm so ashamed of myself.

Most popular streamers tend to play all classes, they tend to have a lot of play time in the game. They play the game at a very high level and know what they are talking about.

So why shouldn't zos bring in high end players for testing? Is that such a bad thing.

Also i capitalised ZeniMax in the middle because that is how it is.

Well they say 'top' theory crafters. Which is code for streamers that just copy other people builds and play them to a larger audience.

You want top theory crafters you need to look for the people who are cult heroes. Who are weeks if not months ahead of metas.

starkerealm

Phinix1 wrote: »

I have never met a company or community so allergic to constructive criticism as this one. Here it is treated like anything that isn't kitten memes and compliments is an evil, hostile attack against everything good and right in the world.

Bwhahahaha

Heh

Hehe

I'm sorry, I don't know what kinds of companies you've been interacting with, but at least ZOS responds. Granted, often the answer is no, but... seriously? Heh, no. I've seen companies that are downright punitive about any criticism.

Hell, I've played an MMO, where the devs would actively mess with the community over perceived criticism.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Those two you mentioned I believe are nice guys and have alot of knowledge of the game.

I agree that modders should be taken into account but maybe they wanna try something related to gameplay / skills / combat) Idk.

timidobserver

This thread is a code 10-71.

cheemers

I think all three of the streamers you mentioned by name are actually pretty great ambassadors for the game and its playerbase. You don't know what specifically they are being asked to review at ZoS - I'm confident that they'll be looking to review new PvP systems rather than new quests or whatever. I'm not sure what axe you have to grind but some of your assertions about cheaters and exploiters and the "middle 98%" are completely baseless and frankly laughable.

Waffennacht

It's life, you're right, they don't represent the majority, but then again the majority of players wouldn't have much to share?

I agree in the sense that I don't like it personally, but who am I to say who gets to go where and why? Plus I should be happy that someone gets to be invited and all that, I mean if I got an email asking to go hang with them I would be stoked.

That being said, never been a fan of the "frat" boy mentality where everyone outside of the circle is worthless, but again that's life, at least that's what all the people say

LrdRahvin

starkerealm wrote: »

Phinix1 wrote: »

I have never met a company or community so allergic to constructive criticism as this one. Here it is treated like anything that isn't kitten memes and compliments is an evil, hostile attack against everything good and right in the world.

Bwhahahaha

Heh

Hehe

I'm sorry, I don't know what kinds of companies you've been interacting with, but at least ZOS responds. Granted, often the answer is no, but... seriously? Heh, no. I've seen companies that are downright punitive about any criticism.

Hell, I've played an MMO, where the devs would actively mess with the community over perceived criticism.

They do this regularly over at ArcheAge...then again Trino as a company has completely fallen apart since Hartsman came back. I quit all their games quite some time ago.

Still, the guy you are quoting is correct. ZOS is terrible at dealing with criticism.

Kram8ion

Celebs?

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Phinix1 wrote: »

Also, I think it's pretty crappy how mod and addon authors are always left out in the cold and treated sort of like second class citizens next to their PR pets. They are seemingly just taken for granted for the most part.

We are expected to fix bugs and generate value for the company for free. We don't even get crown perks or community picks for some meaningless title or anything. Fine whatever, I do it as a hobby. But so do streamers. Yet streamers get big time sponsorship and MONEY for THEIR hobby.

I'd be lucky to make enough in donations to pay my monthly sub.

This is what I don't get.

In all honesty if Deltia et al never made another video it would not diminish my game fun one bit, and I am not being disrespectful by that.

But without the UI Modders this game would be borderline unplayable, and my game fun would very much be diminished.

All The Best

cpuScientist

All I can add to this "important" post is an emphatic 'git gud'

srfrogg23

willlienellson wrote: »

ZOS Focuses way too much on the feedback of elite "celebrity" gamers while they roundly ignore player consensus and feedback on the forums as a matter of course. It's a problem.
Original Post Below:
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Apparently, right now, a select elite of ESO youtubers like Sypher and Deltia, etc are meeting in person with Zenimax after being invited to the headquarters.

While these youtubers provide a service with their content, they hardly represent the ESO player base neither formally nor informally. They most often represent each other. They represent a micro-industry that operates along side ESO. If anything in-game, they represent a small minority of elite guilds that don't experience ESO like the rest of us and are not good representatives.

Please allow me to explain and provide examples.

PvP: I'm not suggesting any of the specific youtubers or "celebrity players" cheat (although some do and have been banned for it), but they also don't experience playing against cheating, or even against OP players, in the same way. Members of this class of ESO players avoid combat with each other. Many of the known cheaters in this game belong to the same guilds as these elite celebrity ESO players. That doesn't mean the celebrity youtubers are cheating, but it usually means the cheaters don't fight against them. This results in this group having an unrealistically casual viewpoint on cheating as something more benign than it is.

Exploits/Secrets: And exploiting game glitches is the cousin of cheating. Things that aren't working as intended, but are unlikely to get you banned, are passed around as open-secrets within the group and become staples of builds, but are not shared publicly because they don't want them fixed.

Here are two examples of fixed exploits that people weren't getting banned for, that I think I can provide since they no longer work.

1) You could double enchant Flanking Set jewelry with a total of 6 jewelry glyphs instead of 3.
2) You could glitch out Hist Bark set to give a dodge bonus even after you took the set off.

So while you were making the hard choices about how to enchant your jewelry, some players were not. When you were spending 3000 stamina to cast Shuffle, or wearing 5 pieces of Hist Bark, others were dodging with neither.

I'm not accusing anyone of doing these things, but I know the people who did do these things are embedded within that small community. So, at it's most benign, this colors the feedback and impressions of the players in that community which are passed on to Zos as apparently about the only feedback they are actually interested in.

Powercreep: Even if none of the youtube celebrity player cheat, or exploit, or take advantage of tricks....the higher ceiling of performance that is enjoyed on average in these communities is exacerbating the power creep problem in this game. Members of this sector of the community are always the first to say, "This game offers me no challenge. VMA is too easy. This is too easy. That is too easy".

Balancing: Their opinion of balance rarely reflects the community because they rarely face players utilizing abilities to their maximum effectiveness due to the fact that players within this class avoid fighting each other. This is the only game I've ever played where friends cannot play against each other. I've had several of the people I consider members of this niche group actually tell me point blank, "Friends don't kill each other in PvP. I'll give you a pass and you give me a pass. Stop fighting against me or I'm taking you off friends list".

Instead of two great players with great builds fighting each other and learning that certain abilities are indeed out of balance, they pass by each other, high-fiving one another as they farm the pugs from each others alliances and convince themselves that the game is perfectly balanced but THEY are individually "Gods of PvP".
These players don't have experiences in the game that would allow them to adequately represent the larger player base.

The resources were used to have this elite youtube gathering session at Zenimax would have been better spent reading the forums, selecting a few issues with broad community consensus, and then having an internal meeting on how to best address those concerns. But that's too much to hope for.

Yes, I'm painting with a broad brush. There are exceptions to every rule and I'm not trying to disparage anyone specifically. I don't blame anyone for accepting the invitation. This is a rebuke of how Zos operates.

I subscribe to Deltia's channel, I like his content, and his personality. But I don't like him as a representative of ESO players.

If you like their videos, that's fine. If you run their builds, that's great. If you think I'm full of crap, that's okay. And Zos can invite whoever they want on a sleepover.
But, if you've ever wondered why this game is balanced around the top 1% of players and the roleplayers being bought off with mount reskins with everyone in the middle ignored, THIS IS WHY.

[Edit to remove mention of moderator actions and political references]

Yes, Zenimax should have invited me to come play test their game.

I probably would have turned them down because I just don't have that kind of free time on my hands, thanks to family and work, life in general... But, the thought would have counted, at least

willlienellson

cheemers wrote: »

I think all three of the streamers you mentioned by name are actually pretty great ambassadors for the game and its playerbase.

Why does the playerbase need "ambassadors"?
Oh that's right, because they roundly ignore virtually all other feedback directly from us.

LrdRahvin

srfrogg23 wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

ZOS Focuses way too much on the feedback of elite "celebrity" gamers while they roundly ignore player consensus and feedback on the forums as a matter of course. It's a problem.
Original Post Below:
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Apparently, right now, a select elite of ESO youtubers like Sypher and Deltia, etc are meeting in person with Zenimax after being invited to the headquarters.

While these youtubers provide a service with their content, they hardly represent the ESO player base neither formally nor informally. They most often represent each other. They represent a micro-industry that operates along side ESO. If anything in-game, they represent a small minority of elite guilds that don't experience ESO like the rest of us and are not good representatives.

Please allow me to explain and provide examples.

PvP: I'm not suggesting any of the specific youtubers or "celebrity players" cheat (although some do and have been banned for it), but they also don't experience playing against cheating, or even against OP players, in the same way. Members of this class of ESO players avoid combat with each other. Many of the known cheaters in this game belong to the same guilds as these elite celebrity ESO players. That doesn't mean the celebrity youtubers are cheating, but it usually means the cheaters don't fight against them. This results in this group having an unrealistically casual viewpoint on cheating as something more benign than it is.

Exploits/Secrets: And exploiting game glitches is the cousin of cheating. Things that aren't working as intended, but are unlikely to get you banned, are passed around as open-secrets within the group and become staples of builds, but are not shared publicly because they don't want them fixed.

Here are two examples of fixed exploits that people weren't getting banned for, that I think I can provide since they no longer work.

1) You could double enchant Flanking Set jewelry with a total of 6 jewelry glyphs instead of 3.
2) You could glitch out Hist Bark set to give a dodge bonus even after you took the set off.

So while you were making the hard choices about how to enchant your jewelry, some players were not. When you were spending 3000 stamina to cast Shuffle, or wearing 5 pieces of Hist Bark, others were dodging with neither.

I'm not accusing anyone of doing these things, but I know the people who did do these things are embedded within that small community. So, at it's most benign, this colors the feedback and impressions of the players in that community which are passed on to Zos as apparently about the only feedback they are actually interested in.

Powercreep: Even if none of the youtube celebrity player cheat, or exploit, or take advantage of tricks....the higher ceiling of performance that is enjoyed on average in these communities is exacerbating the power creep problem in this game. Members of this sector of the community are always the first to say, "This game offers me no challenge. VMA is too easy. This is too easy. That is too easy".

Balancing: Their opinion of balance rarely reflects the community because they rarely face players utilizing abilities to their maximum effectiveness due to the fact that players within this class avoid fighting each other. This is the only game I've ever played where friends cannot play against each other. I've had several of the people I consider members of this niche group actually tell me point blank, "Friends don't kill each other in PvP. I'll give you a pass and you give me a pass. Stop fighting against me or I'm taking you off friends list".

Instead of two great players with great builds fighting each other and learning that certain abilities are indeed out of balance, they pass by each other, high-fiving one another as they farm the pugs from each others alliances and convince themselves that the game is perfectly balanced but THEY are individually "Gods of PvP".
These players don't have experiences in the game that would allow them to adequately represent the larger player base.

The resources were used to have this elite youtube gathering session at Zenimax would have been better spent reading the forums, selecting a few issues with broad community consensus, and then having an internal meeting on how to best address those concerns. But that's too much to hope for.

Yes, I'm painting with a broad brush. There are exceptions to every rule and I'm not trying to disparage anyone specifically. I don't blame anyone for accepting the invitation. This is a rebuke of how Zos operates.

I subscribe to Deltia's channel, I like his content, and his personality. But I don't like him as a representative of ESO players.

If you like their videos, that's fine. If you run their builds, that's great. If you think I'm full of crap, that's okay. And Zos can invite whoever they want on a sleepover.
But, if you've ever wondered why this game is balanced around the top 1% of players and the roleplayers being bought off with mount reskins with everyone in the middle ignored, THIS IS WHY.

[Edit to remove mention of moderator actions and political references]

Yes, Zenimax should have invited me to come play test their game.

I probably would have turned them down because I just don't have that kind of free time on my hands, thanks to family and work, life in general... But, the thought would have counted, at least

I was part of the invite only Psijic Order alpha server that had several really big guilds in other games brough on to test stuff pre-pre-launch and I can confirm it wouldn't matter at all. ZOS doesn't pay any more attention to invited testers than they do to the forums.

This is all just PR and playerbase placating.

Gilvoth

willlienellson wrote: »

ZOS Focuses way too much on the feedback of elite "celebrity" gamers while they roundly ignore player consensus and feedback on the forums as a matter of course. It's a problem.
Original Post Below:
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Apparently, right now, a select elite of ESO youtubers like Sypher and Deltia, etc are meeting in person with Zenimax after being invited to the headquarters.

While these youtubers provide a service with their content, they hardly represent the ESO player base neither formally nor informally. They most often represent each other. They represent a micro-industry that operates along side ESO. If anything in-game, they represent a small minority of elite guilds that don't experience ESO like the rest of us and are not good representatives.

Please allow me to explain and provide examples.

PvP: I'm not suggesting any of the specific youtubers or "celebrity players" cheat (although some do and have been banned for it), but they also don't experience playing against cheating, or even against OP players, in the same way. Members of this class of ESO players avoid combat with each other. Many of the known cheaters in this game belong to the same guilds as these elite celebrity ESO players. That doesn't mean the celebrity youtubers are cheating, but it usually means the cheaters don't fight against them. This results in this group having an unrealistically casual viewpoint on cheating as something more benign than it is.

Exploits/Secrets: And exploiting game glitches is the cousin of cheating. Things that aren't working as intended, but are unlikely to get you banned, are passed around as open-secrets within the group and become staples of builds, but are not shared publicly because they don't want them fixed.

Here are two examples of fixed exploits that people weren't getting banned for, that I think I can provide since they no longer work.

1) You could double enchant Flanking Set jewelry with a total of 6 jewelry glyphs instead of 3.
2) You could glitch out Hist Bark set to give a dodge bonus even after you took the set off.

So while you were making the hard choices about how to enchant your jewelry, some players were not. When you were spending 3000 stamina to cast Shuffle, or wearing 5 pieces of Hist Bark, others were dodging with neither.

I'm not accusing anyone of doing these things, but I know the people who did do these things are embedded within that small community. So, at it's most benign, this colors the feedback and impressions of the players in that community which are passed on to Zos as apparently about the only feedback they are actually interested in.

Powercreep: Even if none of the youtube celebrity player cheat, or exploit, or take advantage of tricks....the higher ceiling of performance that is enjoyed on average in these communities is exacerbating the power creep problem in this game. Members of this sector of the community are always the first to say, "This game offers me no challenge. VMA is too easy. This is too easy. That is too easy".

Balancing: Their opinion of balance rarely reflects the community because they rarely face players utilizing abilities to their maximum effectiveness due to the fact that players within this class avoid fighting each other. This is the only game I've ever played where friends cannot play against each other. I've had several of the people I consider members of this niche group actually tell me point blank, "Friends don't kill each other in PvP. I'll give you a pass and you give me a pass. Stop fighting against me or I'm taking you off friends list".

Instead of two great players with great builds fighting each other and learning that certain abilities are indeed out of balance, they pass by each other, high-fiving one another as they farm the pugs from each others alliances and convince themselves that the game is perfectly balanced but THEY are individually "Gods of PvP".
These players don't have experiences in the game that would allow them to adequately represent the larger player base.

The resources were used to have this elite youtube gathering session at Zenimax would have been better spent reading the forums, selecting a few issues with broad community consensus, and then having an internal meeting on how to best address those concerns. But that's too much to hope for.

Yes, I'm painting with a broad brush. There are exceptions to every rule and I'm not trying to disparage anyone specifically. I don't blame anyone for accepting the invitation. This is a rebuke of how Zos operates.

I subscribe to Deltia's channel, I like his content, and his personality. But I don't like him as a representative of ESO players.

If you like their videos, that's fine. If you run their builds, that's great. If you think I'm full of crap, that's okay. And Zos can invite whoever they want on a sleepover.
But, if you've ever wondered why this game is balanced around the top 1% of players and the roleplayers being bought off with mount reskins with everyone in the middle ignored, THIS IS WHY.

[Edit to remove mention of moderator actions and political references]

i agree 100%

VileDeeds77

cheemers wrote: »

I think all three of the streamers you mentioned by name are actually pretty great ambassadors for the game and its playerbase. You don't know what specifically they are being asked to review at ZoS - I'm confident that they'll be looking to review new PvP systems rather than new quests or whatever. I'm not sure what axe you have to grind but some of your assertions about cheaters and exploiters and the "middle 98%" are completely baseless and frankly laughable.

I agree.

OP, not sure if you have watched any of Fengrush's videos but he is very critical and rightfully so of the entire Cyrodiil experience, from getting zerged down in the wheel of pain, to the stability of Cyrodiil. He is respectful toward the work that is done by the devs toward combat changes and Cyrodiil, but by no means does he kiss any butts at ZOS.

willlienellson

cheemers wrote: »

I'm confident that they'll be looking to review new PvP systems rather than new quests or whatever. I'm not sure what axe you have to grind but some of your assertions about cheaters and exploiters and the "middle 98%" are completely baseless and frankly laughable.

You've got to be kidding. You must have very little experience in PvP. Just watch these guys play PvP and how they avoid fighting each other out of "respect" and their followers avoid fighting them out of "respect". You think that leads to a balanced viewpoint on PvP?

Nothing I am saying is baseless.

SirAndy

willlienellson wrote: »

Apparently, right now, a select elite of ESO youtubers like Sypher and Deltia, etc are meeting in person with Zenimax after being invited to the headquarters.

This is hardly anything new and has been happening on a regular basis since beta.

The only difference is that this time ZOS opted to make this public.

FloppyTouch

Who cares game is already in the poop anything they add won't take away or help

Mojmir

SirAndy wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

Apparently, right now, a select elite of ESO youtubers like Sypher and Deltia, etc are meeting in person with Zenimax after being invited to the headquarters.

This is hardly anything new and has been happening on a regular basis since beta.

The only difference is that this time ZOS opted to make this public.

I know this all to we'll sadly.