Official Discussion Thread for "What Veteran Rank Removal Means for your Character"

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official discussion thread for the blog article Dark Brotherhood Deep-Dive: What Veteran Rank Removal Means for your Character. Be sure to check it out to see why we ultimately made this change, and how it will affect you once Dark Brotherhood is released.

Jayne_Doe

I'm curious as to whether the veteran costumes will still be earnable once vet ranks are removed. Are they going to be awarded at the corresponding CP ranks, or do I need to get my vet character to 16 to assure I receive all of them (I'm VR12, so I have 3 so far)?

MissBizz

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

I'm curious as to whether the veteran costumes will still be earnable once vet ranks are removed. Are they going to be awarded at the corresponding CP ranks, or do I need to get my vet character to 16 to assure I receive all of them (I'm VR12, so I have 3 so far)?

I was also wondering this. I received an empty mail saying congrats on 160CP on the PTS, but wasn't sure what it was for since I already have a VR16 so I had all the costumes. Was it for the costume? Or something else?

Woenprom

So... If I have one VR16 character, I will get 40 CP.

If I have eight VR16 characters, does that means that all grinding time is basically wasted? Or I'll get 320 CP?

Cuyler

Woenprom wrote: »

So... If I have one VR16 character, I will get 40 CP.

If I have eight VR16 characters, does that means that all grinding time is basically wasted? Or I'll get 320 CP?

I'm kinda torn on this yea........on one hand I'd say if you have 8 v16s, did you not make CP's along the way? But then again, if ZOS is going to give 40 cps for one VR toon it feels wrong you wouldn't award it for each VR toon on an acct.

In the end if you're at cp cap now, you most likely will always be at cap if you play everyday so the point is a non-issue.

This really just seems like ZOS is trying to balance the new v16s who might be v16 but have <160 cp to get closer to us vets who have >160 cp.

NewBlacksmurf

Woenprom wrote: »

So... If I have one VR16 character, I will get 40 CP.

If I have eight VR16 characters, does that means that all grinding time is basically wasted? Or I'll get 320 CP?

seems you will only gt 40 cp

myrrrorb14_ESO

So for the first 3 silver zones I would only be earning 30% xp? Can I slot fewer champion points g of get xp? For the most part I enjoy the quest story lines, but only getting 30% of already low xp sounds painful.

MissBizz

By the way, this isn't showing up in the Dev Tracker @ZOS_GinaBruno
Now it is

NewBlacksmurf

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Please provide details on exactly how you all will handle scaled zones.

-I don't think you're going to give players additional CP for temporary encounters so how does this work?
CP's do apply significant changes to passive categories but players lacking these are without those benefits.

*Are we just playing as 50's less the CP's even tho the NPCs are based on CP?
**Is there a new scaling detail with calculations and affects TBA?

Elsonso

"One of the great things about basing character strength on Champion Points instead of Veteran Ranks is how favorable it is for playing multiple characters. As Champion Points are shared across your account, all alternate characters on your account are able to access your account's Champion Points at level 50. For example, say you have 160 CP on your account. When you create a new character and level them to 50, they will be able to equip CP 160 gear right away! "

This makes it sound like 1-49 cannot access Champion Points.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

I'm curious as to whether the veteran costumes will still be earnable once vet ranks are removed. Are they going to be awarded at the corresponding CP ranks, or do I need to get my vet character to 16 to assure I receive all of them (I'm VR12, so I have 3 so far)?

You'll still get costumes with the corresponding Champion Points. In this case, it'll be at CP 20, 100, and 160.

code65536

Woenprom wrote: »

So... If I have one VR16 character, I will get 40 CP.

If I have eight VR16 characters, does that means that all grinding time is basically wasted? Or I'll get 320 CP?

If you have 8 VR16 characters, you are almost certainly at the CP cap already. At which point, why does it matter? I'm over the CP cap myself, and at the rate at which I'm still earning CP through just normal gameplay and the rate at which they plan to raise the cap, I'm going to be perma-capped indefinitely. I don't even pay attention to my CP numbers--hell, I didn't even notice when I first logged into the PTS that I hadn't received my bonus 40 CP. That's how little I care about CP at this point.

Legoless

The gear cap is currently CP 160, but it will be raised in the future.

Guess we'll be seeing Bristlecone after all...

nimander99

I am VERY happy about Gold Zone's being full EXP zones! I can't wait till all of Tamriel is treated this way.

On that day, this game will get a 5/5 Star rating from me!

redspecter23

I'm concerned about the news that gear cap will be raised in the future. Will it be the drastic increase that we had when v15 and v16 gear was added which obsoleted everything v14 and lower or will it be a very small increase such that our current gear will still be relevant? I worry about my gear progression if it can all be wiped out whenever zos feels like raising the gear cap.

Traditionally, ZoS has also been VERY slow to update all systems to a new cap. Will we see potions, food, gear, dungeon loot, pvp boxes, pvp rewards, etc. all upgraded at the same time the gear cap goes up? I'm STILL pulling v14 set loot from dungeons months after the v16 cap increase. ZoS isn't even finished upgrading the current systems to v16 and they are talking about raising it again.

This all has me quite worried. Up until today, I was happily farming for the current v16 cap gear but knowing it could all just be for nothing at any given time on a whim and without all the other proper progression mechanics in place has me wondering how much effort I should put into progression of gear.

crystaldisbrow

"Each time you level up, you gain 1 attribute point and 1 skill point. With the removal of Veteran Ranks, we had an extra 16 attribute and 16 stat points that needed to be allocated. Our initial thought was to grant all 16 as soon as you hit Level 50. However, we wanted to make the journey from 1-50 more exciting and rewarding. This lead us to doling out an extra attribute and stat point every 5 levels, and two extra points every 10 levels. This fit the 16 points perfectly and created a nice reward cadence for everyone."

Ok, so my question here is if I am level VR8 right now, nearly VR9, when the system changes and I go to Level 50 will I automatically receive the remaining 7 attribute points and skill points I would have earned leveling up to rank VR16?

Panth141

crystaldisbrow wrote: »

"Each time you level up, you gain 1 attribute point and 1 skill point. With the removal of Veteran Ranks, we had an extra 16 attribute and 16 stat points that needed to be allocated. Our initial thought was to grant all 16 as soon as you hit Level 50. However, we wanted to make the journey from 1-50 more exciting and rewarding. This lead us to doling out an extra attribute and stat point every 5 levels, and two extra points every 10 levels. This fit the 16 points perfectly and created a nice reward cadence for everyone."

Ok, so my question here is if I am level VR8 right now, nearly VR9, when the system changes and I go to Level 50 will I automatically receive the remaining 7 attribute points and skill points I would have earned leveling up to rank VR16?

Yup!

Elephant42

nimander99 wrote: »

I am VERY happy about Gold Zone's being full EXP zones! I can't wait till all of Tamriel is treated this way.

On that day, this game will get a 5/5 Star rating from me!

Unfortunately the way things stand at the moment, these zones will NOT be full XP zones for a large number of players, any who have 210 or more CP. This is NOT a good situation and I hope that ZOS does something about it before DB goes live.

My suggestion is to have all balance and gating decisions based on _allocated_ CP rather than account CP. That is, if an individual character only allocates 160 CP then it will be treated as a 160 CP character for all balance and gating decisions no matter how many CP the account actually has. This would also be the CP shown in the UI name tags for that character.

Quoted from the PTS patch notes:
Experience gain rules will continue to function as they did for Veteran Ranks:
Mobs 40 Champion Points below your level will grant 75% of their normal XP.
Mobs 50 or more Champion Points below your level will grant 30% of their normal XP.

MissBizz

Elephant42 wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

I am VERY happy about Gold Zone's being full EXP zones! I can't wait till all of Tamriel is treated this way.

On that day, this game will get a 5/5 Star rating from me!

Unfortunately the way things stand at the moment, these zones will NOT be full XP zones for a large number of players, any who have 210 or more CP. This is NOT a good situation and I hope that ZOS does something about it before DB goes live.

My suggestion is to have all balance and gating decisions based on _allocated_ CP rather than account CP. That is, if an individual character only allocates 160 CP then it will be treated as a 160 CP character for all balance and gating decisions no matter how many CP the account actually has. This would also be the CP shown in the UI name tags for that character.

Quoted from the PTS patch notes:
Experience gain rules will continue to function as they did for Veteran Ranks:
Mobs 40 Champion Points below your level will grant 75% of their normal XP.
Mobs 50 or more Champion Points below your level will grant 30% of their normal XP.

@Elephant42 Check out the article, they explained it better than what is in the patch notes.

Quoted from the article:

Q: How much XP will I earn if I have 400 Champion Points and I'm fighting Champion Point 160 monsters?
A: When making XP calculations, your level is effectively capped at the highest droppable item level. When Dark Brotherhood goes live, the highest item level will be CP 160, so any player with more than CP 160 will be evaluated as CP 160 for the XP calculation. As a result, you will get full XP for killing CP 160 monsters. If you were killing CP 120 monsters, you would earn 75% XP and CP 110 or lower monsters would be worth 30% XP.

Elephant42

MissBizz wrote: »

@Elephant42 Check out the article, they explained it better than what is in the patch notes.
-snip-

DOH - now I feel like a dork - thanks for setting me straight @MissBizz

Now we just have to see if we can get the final kinks ironed out of the enchanting nodes situation...

ZOS_GinaBruno

Elephant42 wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

I am VERY happy about Gold Zone's being full EXP zones! I can't wait till all of Tamriel is treated this way.

On that day, this game will get a 5/5 Star rating from me!

Unfortunately the way things stand at the moment, these zones will NOT be full XP zones for a large number of players, any who have 210 or more CP. This is NOT a good situation and I hope that ZOS does something about it before DB goes live.

My suggestion is to have all balance and gating decisions based on _allocated_ CP rather than account CP. That is, if an individual character only allocates 160 CP then it will be treated as a 160 CP character for all balance and gating decisions no matter how many CP the account actually has. This would also be the CP shown in the UI name tags for that character.

Quoted from the PTS patch notes:
Experience gain rules will continue to function as they did for Veteran Ranks:
Mobs 40 Champion Points below your level will grant 75% of their normal XP.
Mobs 50 or more Champion Points below your level will grant 30% of their normal XP.

Well, keep in mind that your level is effectively capped at the highest droppable item level, so if you're above CP 160 and fighting in Gold, you'll still get full XP. The first question in the FAQ at the bottom of the blog actually addresses this concern is a little more detail.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

this honestly doesnt bother me as much as the sorcerer changes, please go read the feedback thread for that, we need a open dialog between dev and that issue far more than any other at this time

highrisedrifter

So does this "one time bonus" of 40CP grant players extra points that other players without VR characters can't get, or is it just a "boost" further down the CP road and all players, regardless of whether they had VR16 characters before the update, will eventually max out CP at the same level?

MissBizz

highrisedrifter wrote: »

So does this "one time bonus" of 40CP grant players extra points that other players without VR characters can't get, or is it just a "boost" further down the CP road and all players, regardless of whether they had VR16 characters before the update, will eventually max out CP at the same level?

@highrisedrifter It's just a boost down the same CP road. Currently, everyone can only spend 501 CP - so everyone is able to hit that cap (and you can continue earning CP after that cap so you'll have them for if/when the cap is raised)

highrisedrifter

Perfect, thanks for the response.

ShedsHisTail

I don't really have any problems with the conversion other than that "CP160" seems like a convoluted way to say "Level 66."

Elephant42

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Well, keep in mind that your level is effectively capped at the highest droppable item level, so if you're above CP 160 and fighting in Gold, you'll still get full XP. The first question in the FAQ at the bottom of the blog actually addresses this concern is a little more detail.

Yep I should learn to read better as @MissBizz pointed out to me a few posts above - my bad.

Kyotukana_ESO

Can someone knowledgeable explain to me how replacing veteran levels with champion point levels is going to somehow improve group play and functionality of the game? Zones are still restricted by CP level because they only incentivise players to play through a very specific playthrough, going from Zone A to B, then to C. The issue of replayability and changing up how you play an alternative character is very much still an issue with the game solely because of this. Players want to be able to play with their friends and they want to be able to travel and do activities in the world of ESO in a much more organic manner. Given that it's literally iconic for the TES series as we know it today, I believe ESO does need to make this game much more open in some sort of competent manner.

Also, I don't even see how the CP system is even going to solve the issue of constant power creep, especially when it sounds like you're just going to consistently raise the cap. How is that any different than just simply raising the VR cap, when people will still be disincentivised from playing with those who have a lower CP level?

RomansXXI

This change confuses me greatly. I hope it'll be easier to understand when it's released

Enodoc

lordrichter wrote: »

"One of the great things about basing character strength on Champion Points instead of Veteran Ranks is how favorable it is for playing multiple characters. As Champion Points are shared across your account, all alternate characters on your account are able to access your account's Champion Points at level 50. For example, say you have 160 CP on your account. When you create a new character and level them to 50, they will be able to equip CP 160 gear right away! "

This makes it sound like 1-49 cannot access Champion Points.

Hmm, yeah, that's a bit odd. Is that bad wording, @ZOS_GinaBruno ? As it stands now on Live, any character on the account can spend the account's Champion Points, even those characters below Level 50. You need Level 50 plus x CPs to be able to wear the CP gear, but you don't need to be Level 50 to gain the attribute bonuses from CPs or to spend them in the passives.

prax07

So if I can't possibly reach vr16 before the change happens my character is always going to have less cp points than every other player that did reach vr16? Referring tyo the bonus cp points vr16's will be getting. What's the point in continuing to play if I'll always be gimped? If my friend eventually buys the game his characters will also be weaker than everyone elses because of those bonus cp points? Might as well tell him to not buy the game then.