Siphoning Attacks Feedback: In-depth tanking perspective [DB Update]
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hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭.Well SA was very usefull before IC on a dps, you just had to use it on the aoe bar.
But yeah The flat regain rather than percentage has made it really weak, plus with the removal of regain from dots they should at least have given it buff. Leeching strikes really isnt that good since it mean slitgthly lower spell dam and weap dam, which means weaker swallow soul/ vigor and refreshing path.
Got a cool idea, make summon shadows able to get you regain from SA if active or Leeching strikes, would make shadows viable, and How cool would it be to tank while your shadow minions kept your ressources up.
And Btw Temp tank get regain from repentance, and some bonus from its cost reduction, Dk tank have earthen hearth and ultimates regain, while Nb tanks only have Siphon attacks for regain, and earthen hearth give percentage regain and not flat regain unlike SA.
Shadows are viable anyway dude, reduce boss damage by 15%, but yeah if they could get your resources back aswell it would be super cool.
Cool indeed
But the summon shades's damage is treated like a DOT.
But if the Summon Shades would also taunt the Boss.. we get the savings of not casting the normal taunt anymore and free up a slot
Summon shades arent treated as a dot, tested it with Skoria set, didnt trigger it, they are seen as npcs that uses ligth attacks that cant be attacked, did some testing with it http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208831/the-still-useless-summon-shade#latest and havent seen any patch notes stating any fixes to it.
@Miwerton ,
Thanks for your comment. Did not know that it does not count as a DOT."I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU0 -
WolfingHour✭✭✭✭.Well SA was very usefull before IC on a dps, you just had to use it on the aoe bar.
But yeah The flat regain rather than percentage has made it really weak, plus with the removal of regain from dots they should at least have given it buff. Leeching strikes really isnt that good since it mean slitgthly lower spell dam and weap dam, which means weaker swallow soul/ vigor and refreshing path.
Got a cool idea, make summon shadows able to get you regain from SA if active or Leeching strikes, would make shadows viable, and How cool would it be to tank while your shadow minions kept your ressources up.
And Btw Temp tank get regain from repentance, and some bonus from its cost reduction, Dk tank have earthen hearth and ultimates regain, while Nb tanks only have Siphon attacks for regain, and earthen hearth give percentage regain and not flat regain unlike SA.
Shadows are viable anyway dude, reduce boss damage by 15%, but yeah if they could get your resources back aswell it would be super cool.
Cool indeed
But the summon shades's damage is treated like a DOT.
But if the Summon Shades would also taunt the Boss.. we get the savings of not casting the normal taunt anymore and free up a slot
Summon shades arent treated as a dot, tested it with Skoria set, didnt trigger it, they are seen as npcs that uses ligth attacks that cant be attacked, did some testing with it http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208831/the-still-useless-summon-shade#latest and havent seen any patch notes stating any fixes to it.
Tested VS with dark shades on pts it does work. As does mystic orb.
SA with VS, on the other hand, didnt.Edited by WolfingHour on February 11, 2016 1:25PM0 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭.Well SA was very usefull before IC on a dps, you just had to use it on the aoe bar.
But yeah The flat regain rather than percentage has made it really weak, plus with the removal of regain from dots they should at least have given it buff. Leeching strikes really isnt that good since it mean slitgthly lower spell dam and weap dam, which means weaker swallow soul/ vigor and refreshing path.
Got a cool idea, make summon shadows able to get you regain from SA if active or Leeching strikes, would make shadows viable, and How cool would it be to tank while your shadow minions kept your ressources up.
And Btw Temp tank get regain from repentance, and some bonus from its cost reduction, Dk tank have earthen hearth and ultimates regain, while Nb tanks only have Siphon attacks for regain, and earthen hearth give percentage regain and not flat regain unlike SA.
Shadows are viable anyway dude, reduce boss damage by 15%, but yeah if they could get your resources back aswell it would be super cool.
Cool indeed
But the summon shades's damage is treated like a DOT.
But if the Summon Shades would also taunt the Boss.. we get the savings of not casting the normal taunt anymore and free up a slot
Summon shades arent treated as a dot, tested it with Skoria set, didnt trigger it, they are seen as npcs that uses ligth attacks that cant be attacked, did some testing with it http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208831/the-still-useless-summon-shade#latest and havent seen any patch notes stating any fixes to it.
I also tested Skoria with shades on PTS, and found they did in fact proc it, and thus are treated as a DoT.WolfingHour wrote: ».Well SA was very usefull before IC on a dps, you just had to use it on the aoe bar.
But yeah The flat regain rather than percentage has made it really weak, plus with the removal of regain from dots they should at least have given it buff. Leeching strikes really isnt that good since it mean slitgthly lower spell dam and weap dam, which means weaker swallow soul/ vigor and refreshing path.
Got a cool idea, make summon shadows able to get you regain from SA if active or Leeching strikes, would make shadows viable, and How cool would it be to tank while your shadow minions kept your ressources up.
And Btw Temp tank get regain from repentance, and some bonus from its cost reduction, Dk tank have earthen hearth and ultimates regain, while Nb tanks only have Siphon attacks for regain, and earthen hearth give percentage regain and not flat regain unlike SA.
Shadows are viable anyway dude, reduce boss damage by 15%, but yeah if they could get your resources back aswell it would be super cool.
Cool indeed
But the summon shades's damage is treated like a DOT.
But if the Summon Shades would also taunt the Boss.. we get the savings of not casting the normal taunt anymore and free up a slot
Summon shades arent treated as a dot, tested it with Skoria set, didnt trigger it, they are seen as npcs that uses ligth attacks that cant be attacked, did some testing with it http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208831/the-still-useless-summon-shade#latest and havent seen any patch notes stating any fixes to it.
Tested VS with dark shades on pts it does work. As does mystic orb.
SA with VS, on the other hand, didnt.
On live, Orbs don't proc SA. Haven't tested it on PTS or with Skora though.
Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on February 11, 2016 1:55PMGore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
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Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden0 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭From the stickied thread on the General Discussion forums:Siphoning Attacks: We plan on increasing the resources provided by this ability in the next incremental patch.
Leeching Strikes: Also in the next incremental patch, we plan on increasing the amount of health restored from this ability, based on your feedback.
Interested to see how much the increase to SA is, though it would have to be significant in order to make it pay off against its own cost and the cost of abilities to proc it.
Leeching morph definitely needs love, but don't think increasing the health restore will make people want to use it. People need stam or mag, not health, which can be gained from many other abilities.Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden1 -
hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: ».Well SA was very usefull before IC on a dps, you just had to use it on the aoe bar.
But yeah The flat regain rather than percentage has made it really weak, plus with the removal of regain from dots they should at least have given it buff. Leeching strikes really isnt that good since it mean slitgthly lower spell dam and weap dam, which means weaker swallow soul/ vigor and refreshing path.
Got a cool idea, make summon shadows able to get you regain from SA if active or Leeching strikes, would make shadows viable, and How cool would it be to tank while your shadow minions kept your ressources up.
And Btw Temp tank get regain from repentance, and some bonus from its cost reduction, Dk tank have earthen hearth and ultimates regain, while Nb tanks only have Siphon attacks for regain, and earthen hearth give percentage regain and not flat regain unlike SA.
Shadows are viable anyway dude, reduce boss damage by 15%, but yeah if they could get your resources back aswell it would be super cool.
Cool indeed
But the summon shades's damage is treated like a DOT.
But if the Summon Shades would also taunt the Boss.. we get the savings of not casting the normal taunt anymore and free up a slot
Summon shades arent treated as a dot, tested it with Skoria set, didnt trigger it, they are seen as npcs that uses ligth attacks that cant be attacked, did some testing with it http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208831/the-still-useless-summon-shade#latest and havent seen any patch notes stating any fixes to it.
I also tested Skoria with shades on PTS, and found they did in fact proc it, and thus are treated as a DoT.WolfingHour wrote: ».Well SA was very usefull before IC on a dps, you just had to use it on the aoe bar.
But yeah The flat regain rather than percentage has made it really weak, plus with the removal of regain from dots they should at least have given it buff. Leeching strikes really isnt that good since it mean slitgthly lower spell dam and weap dam, which means weaker swallow soul/ vigor and refreshing path.
Got a cool idea, make summon shadows able to get you regain from SA if active or Leeching strikes, would make shadows viable, and How cool would it be to tank while your shadow minions kept your ressources up.
And Btw Temp tank get regain from repentance, and some bonus from its cost reduction, Dk tank have earthen hearth and ultimates regain, while Nb tanks only have Siphon attacks for regain, and earthen hearth give percentage regain and not flat regain unlike SA.
Shadows are viable anyway dude, reduce boss damage by 15%, but yeah if they could get your resources back aswell it would be super cool.
Cool indeed
But the summon shades's damage is treated like a DOT.
But if the Summon Shades would also taunt the Boss.. we get the savings of not casting the normal taunt anymore and free up a slot
Summon shades arent treated as a dot, tested it with Skoria set, didnt trigger it, they are seen as npcs that uses ligth attacks that cant be attacked, did some testing with it http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208831/the-still-useless-summon-shade#latest and havent seen any patch notes stating any fixes to it.
Tested VS with dark shades on pts it does work. As does mystic orb.
SA with VS, on the other hand, didnt.
On live, Orbs don't proc SA. Haven't tested it on PTS or with Skora though.
@ThatNeonZebraAgain ,
Necrotic Orb definitively procs SA on live !
Checked it 5 minutes ago. Easy to do: just block to get Stamina low and cast the Orb.
For every opponent close to you, you get about 4 hits with the normal 10% chance to proc.
This means that it was already paing fully the Magicka costs of Orb back with 2-3 opponents, and get the Stamina for free, exactly where Sap Essence is too expensive.
"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU1 -
hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »From the stickied thread on the General Discussion forums:Siphoning Attacks: We plan on increasing the resources provided by this ability in the next incremental patch.
Leeching Strikes: Also in the next incremental patch, we plan on increasing the amount of health restored from this ability, based on your feedback.
Interested to see how much the increase to SA is, though it would have to be significant in order to make it pay off against its own cost and the cost of abilities to proc it.
Leeching morph definitely needs love, but don't think increasing the health restore will make people want to use it. People need stam or mag, not health, which can be gained from many other abilities.
too bad ZOS chooses to buff SA so that both DPS as Tanks benefit.
The consequence will be that the buff will not be big enough to help tanks really good, otherwise NB DPS gets too strong.
And yes @ThatNeonZebraAgain , as you say: Buffing Health with Leeching Strikes will help no one, because no one is using it.
A missed chance to convert Leeching Strikes to a Tank morph....
"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU3 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: ».Well SA was very usefull before IC on a dps, you just had to use it on the aoe bar.
But yeah The flat regain rather than percentage has made it really weak, plus with the removal of regain from dots they should at least have given it buff. Leeching strikes really isnt that good since it mean slitgthly lower spell dam and weap dam, which means weaker swallow soul/ vigor and refreshing path.
Got a cool idea, make summon shadows able to get you regain from SA if active or Leeching strikes, would make shadows viable, and How cool would it be to tank while your shadow minions kept your ressources up.
And Btw Temp tank get regain from repentance, and some bonus from its cost reduction, Dk tank have earthen hearth and ultimates regain, while Nb tanks only have Siphon attacks for regain, and earthen hearth give percentage regain and not flat regain unlike SA.
Shadows are viable anyway dude, reduce boss damage by 15%, but yeah if they could get your resources back aswell it would be super cool.
Cool indeed
But the summon shades's damage is treated like a DOT.
But if the Summon Shades would also taunt the Boss.. we get the savings of not casting the normal taunt anymore and free up a slot
Summon shades arent treated as a dot, tested it with Skoria set, didnt trigger it, they are seen as npcs that uses ligth attacks that cant be attacked, did some testing with it http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208831/the-still-useless-summon-shade#latest and havent seen any patch notes stating any fixes to it.
I also tested Skoria with shades on PTS, and found they did in fact proc it, and thus are treated as a DoT.WolfingHour wrote: ».Well SA was very usefull before IC on a dps, you just had to use it on the aoe bar.
But yeah The flat regain rather than percentage has made it really weak, plus with the removal of regain from dots they should at least have given it buff. Leeching strikes really isnt that good since it mean slitgthly lower spell dam and weap dam, which means weaker swallow soul/ vigor and refreshing path.
Got a cool idea, make summon shadows able to get you regain from SA if active or Leeching strikes, would make shadows viable, and How cool would it be to tank while your shadow minions kept your ressources up.
And Btw Temp tank get regain from repentance, and some bonus from its cost reduction, Dk tank have earthen hearth and ultimates regain, while Nb tanks only have Siphon attacks for regain, and earthen hearth give percentage regain and not flat regain unlike SA.
Shadows are viable anyway dude, reduce boss damage by 15%, but yeah if they could get your resources back aswell it would be super cool.
Cool indeed
But the summon shades's damage is treated like a DOT.
But if the Summon Shades would also taunt the Boss.. we get the savings of not casting the normal taunt anymore and free up a slot
Summon shades arent treated as a dot, tested it with Skoria set, didnt trigger it, they are seen as npcs that uses ligth attacks that cant be attacked, did some testing with it http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208831/the-still-useless-summon-shade#latest and havent seen any patch notes stating any fixes to it.
Tested VS with dark shades on pts it does work. As does mystic orb.
SA with VS, on the other hand, didnt.
On live, Orbs don't proc SA. Haven't tested it on PTS or with Skora though.
@ThatNeonZebraAgain ,
Necrotic Orb definitively procs SA on live !
Checked it 5 minutes ago. Easy to do: just block to get Stamina low and cast the Orb.
For every opponent close to you, you get about 4 hits with the normal 10% chance to proc.
This means that it was already paing fully the Magicka costs of Orb back with 2-3 opponents, and get the Stamina for free, exactly where Sap Essence is too expensive.
Really? I was using un-morphed Orb during a lot of Orsinium World Boss runs and never seemed to get it to proc. I was spamming the ability purposely to drain magicka and was not receiving anything back from SA, even when the orbs were hitting many enemies. Will have to try it again.Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on February 11, 2016 3:49PMGore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
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Arkraptor✭✭✭I agree with @ThatNeonZebraAgain's post. At the moment, in PTS, Siphoning Attacks is more a liability to NB siphoning tank than a benefit. This really encourages uniformity to tanking style -- now NB tank would have to tank with DK (maybe closer: Templar) style, but gets much less powerful tool to do so. In particular, to manage resources (Helping Hands, Battle Roar for DK, Channeled Focus, Repentence for Templar). I really love NB tanking style.
On the other hand, I do agree that Siphoning Attacks can be a little overpowered for NB tank, so some nerf can be justified, just not at this magnitude. In live, I'm able to block cast for an entire duration of fight (even those that lasted more than a minutes). This is against the pattern ZOS has been encouraging tank to do, so I'll admit that the skill is OP, but it doesn't deserve a nerf to the ground. I hope that the SA tweak on the next incremental patch will give us a skill that is somewhere in between the current pointless skill in PTS and the one in live.
Also, yeah, I agreed with sentiments on Leeching Strikes. Who in the world uses this skill? It needs tweaking, maybe even make it actually the morph of choice for tanks (I believe this was the intent, but I really don't see why any NB tank would want to take this morph).Vokundein
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nordickittyhawk✭✭✭✭✭I love how PvE all classes was balanced for tanking n so forth. PvE was more blanced than ever before. (yes i know templars was not the best but was better than before). This crap excuse of a "class rebalance patch" changes it back to "your magic dk or sorc! or gtfo".
Im really pissed off @ZOS_RichLambert for doing this and no matter how much you "buff siphoning attacks" it will never be as good as it was!. STOP TOUCHING UNBROKEN SKILLS FROM LAUNCH! and calling it a fix!. -.- rant over.2 -
WolfingHour✭✭✭✭ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: ».Well SA was very usefull before IC on a dps, you just had to use it on the aoe bar.
But yeah The flat regain rather than percentage has made it really weak, plus with the removal of regain from dots they should at least have given it buff. Leeching strikes really isnt that good since it mean slitgthly lower spell dam and weap dam, which means weaker swallow soul/ vigor and refreshing path.
Got a cool idea, make summon shadows able to get you regain from SA if active or Leeching strikes, would make shadows viable, and How cool would it be to tank while your shadow minions kept your ressources up.
And Btw Temp tank get regain from repentance, and some bonus from its cost reduction, Dk tank have earthen hearth and ultimates regain, while Nb tanks only have Siphon attacks for regain, and earthen hearth give percentage regain and not flat regain unlike SA.
Shadows are viable anyway dude, reduce boss damage by 15%, but yeah if they could get your resources back aswell it would be super cool.
Cool indeed
But the summon shades's damage is treated like a DOT.
But if the Summon Shades would also taunt the Boss.. we get the savings of not casting the normal taunt anymore and free up a slot
Summon shades arent treated as a dot, tested it with Skoria set, didnt trigger it, they are seen as npcs that uses ligth attacks that cant be attacked, did some testing with it http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208831/the-still-useless-summon-shade#latest and havent seen any patch notes stating any fixes to it.
I also tested Skoria with shades on PTS, and found they did in fact proc it, and thus are treated as a DoT.WolfingHour wrote: ».Well SA was very usefull before IC on a dps, you just had to use it on the aoe bar.
But yeah The flat regain rather than percentage has made it really weak, plus with the removal of regain from dots they should at least have given it buff. Leeching strikes really isnt that good since it mean slitgthly lower spell dam and weap dam, which means weaker swallow soul/ vigor and refreshing path.
Got a cool idea, make summon shadows able to get you regain from SA if active or Leeching strikes, would make shadows viable, and How cool would it be to tank while your shadow minions kept your ressources up.
And Btw Temp tank get regain from repentance, and some bonus from its cost reduction, Dk tank have earthen hearth and ultimates regain, while Nb tanks only have Siphon attacks for regain, and earthen hearth give percentage regain and not flat regain unlike SA.
Shadows are viable anyway dude, reduce boss damage by 15%, but yeah if they could get your resources back aswell it would be super cool.
Cool indeed
But the summon shades's damage is treated like a DOT.
But if the Summon Shades would also taunt the Boss.. we get the savings of not casting the normal taunt anymore and free up a slot
Summon shades arent treated as a dot, tested it with Skoria set, didnt trigger it, they are seen as npcs that uses ligth attacks that cant be attacked, did some testing with it http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208831/the-still-useless-summon-shade#latest and havent seen any patch notes stating any fixes to it.
Tested VS with dark shades on pts it does work. As does mystic orb.
SA with VS, on the other hand, didnt.
On live, Orbs don't proc SA. Haven't tested it on PTS or with Skora though.
@ThatNeonZebraAgain ,
Necrotic Orb definitively procs SA on live !
Checked it 5 minutes ago. Easy to do: just block to get Stamina low and cast the Orb.
For every opponent close to you, you get about 4 hits with the normal 10% chance to proc.
This means that it was already paing fully the Magicka costs of Orb back with 2-3 opponents, and get the Stamina for free, exactly where Sap Essence is too expensive.
Really? I was using un-morphed Orb during a lot of Orsinium World Boss runs and never seemed to get it to proc. I was spamming the ability purposely to drain magicka and was not receiving anything back from SA, even when the orbs were hitting many enemies. Will have to try it again.
Necrotic doesnt proc sa on pts, but hey there is always sap I guess. :P1 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭nordickittyhawk wrote: »I love how PvE all classes was balanced for tanking n so forth. PvE was more blanced than ever before. (yes i know templars was not the best but was better than before). This crap excuse of a "class rebalance patch" changes it back to "your magic dk or sorc! or gtfo".
Im really pissed off @ZOS_RichLambert for doing this and no matter how much you "buff siphoning attacks" it will never be as good as it was!. STOP TOUCHING UNBROKEN SKILLS FROM LAUNCH! and calling it a fix!. -.- rant over.
I wondering, was the "issue" that was "fixed" with SA proccing on some GTAoEDoTs a bug or just that it was utilizing not well thought out/consistent combat logic? Either way, it's another example of the band-aid approach to balancing that causes so much angst among players, and which doesn't address underlying design issues that are the real source of a lot of problems. Of course game and software development in general is never truly finished as you can always iterate and improve, but SA has worked this way since at least PC launch, yet it is just now being changed to its 'correct' form.Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on February 11, 2016 4:42PMGore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
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code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Therium104 wrote: »Try resource mgmt as a DK tank. Stop crying. It is insane how much ZOS has baby NB.
Well, it just so happens that I have tanked on both my NB and my DK.
Unless I'm willing to drop block to light-attack (not always possible), the NB's stamina management is at the mercy of RNG. At least with the DK, I'm guaranteed a return with each stomp of my foot. Oh, and Battle Roar is very powerful and integral to my resource management as a DK tank. The DK has better stamina management, while the NB does better magic-wise. The DK is certainly not deficient by any means, and I tend to potion less when tanking on my DK than on my NB.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
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Helluin✭✭✭Another problem is that basically there is just one morph.
Even with the improved health returned (planned for the next PTS patch), Leeching Strikes is a morph not interesting at all for every role (dd, healer, tank) both in PvE and PvP (the health returned improved should be a lot to justify it, otherwise it would be still not appealing).
This morph should be reworked to provide a valid alternative to Siphoning Attacks.
As it is or with a small buff to health, there is no reason to use Leeching Strikes.Edited by Helluin on February 14, 2016 9:12PM"... and the blue fire of Helluin flickered in the mists above the borders of the world, in that hour the Children of the Earth awoke, the Firstborn of Ilúvatar."3 -
Laquey✭✭✭Well SA was very usefull before IC on a dps, you just had to use it on the aoe bar.
But yeah The flat regain rather than percentage has made it really weak, plus with the removal of regain from dots they should at least have given it buff. Leeching strikes really isnt that good since it mean slitgthly lower spell dam and weap dam, which means weaker swallow soul/ vigor and refreshing path.
Got a cool idea, make summon shadows able to get you regain from SA if active or Leeching strikes, would make shadows viable, and How cool would it be to tank while your shadow minions kept your ressources up.
And Btw Temp tank get regain from repentance, and some bonus from its cost reduction, Dk tank have earthen hearth and ultimates regain, while Nb tanks only have Siphon attacks for regain, and earthen hearth give percentage regain and not flat regain unlike SA.
Shadows are viable anyway dude, reduce boss damage by 15%, but yeah if they could get your resources back aswell it would be super cool.
Shadows should be on every defensive bar for a tank as they provide minor maim 15% damage reduction, 3% health from dark vigor and both major ward and major resolve through shadow barrier for up to 11.5 seconds with full heavy armour.
Having the shades trigger the light attack component of siphoning attacks would be an excellent addition if SA can no longer trigger of GE and DoT effects.1 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭Well SA was very usefull before IC on a dps, you just had to use it on the aoe bar.
But yeah The flat regain rather than percentage has made it really weak, plus with the removal of regain from dots they should at least have given it buff. Leeching strikes really isnt that good since it mean slitgthly lower spell dam and weap dam, which means weaker swallow soul/ vigor and refreshing path.
Got a cool idea, make summon shadows able to get you regain from SA if active or Leeching strikes, would make shadows viable, and How cool would it be to tank while your shadow minions kept your ressources up.
And Btw Temp tank get regain from repentance, and some bonus from its cost reduction, Dk tank have earthen hearth and ultimates regain, while Nb tanks only have Siphon attacks for regain, and earthen hearth give percentage regain and not flat regain unlike SA.
Shadows are viable anyway dude, reduce boss damage by 15%, but yeah if they could get your resources back aswell it would be super cool.
Shadows should be on every defensive bar for a tank as they provide minor maim 15% damage reduction, 3% health from dark vigor and both major ward and major resolve through shadow barrier for up to 11.5 seconds with full heavy armour.
Having the shades trigger the light attack component of siphoning attacks would be an excellent addition if SA can no longer trigger of GE and DoT effects.
I have heard conflicting reports about the main debuffs working against boss mobs. Will test if shades procs SA on PTS soon though, could be interesting.Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden0 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭Well SA was very usefull before IC on a dps, you just had to use it on the aoe bar.
But yeah The flat regain rather than percentage has made it really weak, plus with the removal of regain from dots they should at least have given it buff. Leeching strikes really isnt that good since it mean slitgthly lower spell dam and weap dam, which means weaker swallow soul/ vigor and refreshing path.
Got a cool idea, make summon shadows able to get you regain from SA if active or Leeching strikes, would make shadows viable, and How cool would it be to tank while your shadow minions kept your ressources up.
And Btw Temp tank get regain from repentance, and some bonus from its cost reduction, Dk tank have earthen hearth and ultimates regain, while Nb tanks only have Siphon attacks for regain, and earthen hearth give percentage regain and not flat regain unlike SA.
Shadows are viable anyway dude, reduce boss damage by 15%, but yeah if they could get your resources back aswell it would be super cool.
Shadows should be on every defensive bar for a tank as they provide minor maim 15% damage reduction, 3% health from dark vigor and both major ward and major resolve through shadow barrier for up to 11.5 seconds with full heavy armour.
Having the shades trigger the light attack component of siphoning attacks would be an excellent addition if SA can no longer trigger of GE and DoT effects.
Ok just tested on PTS, and shades DO NOT proc SA. They did proc Valkyn Skoria, however, so it appears Shades damage counts as a DoT, which is why it doesn't proc SA.Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden0 -
Zabus✭✭✭✭Well ZOS did say they were buffing the resource proc on SA, but since I don't trust them I can only continue to fear for the worst. I wouldn't put it past them to increase values by 2% and then claim it's a buff.. They should either keep it the way it is on Live, double the value of what you get back (only on light/heavy attacks), or do something useful with leeching strikes which is complete trash atm.Zavus - Khajiit Nightblade EP | AR 50
Zāv - Imperial Templar | AR 24
Zavbags - Argonian Nightblade EP | AR 19
Zabus - Redguard Nightblade DC | AR 13
Negate Three - Breton Sorcerer EP | AR 192 -
Speely✭✭✭✭Great post. I agree wholeheartedly. The fix I am most in support of is reverting this skill back to a damage reduction toggle. Almost any other model is going to favor NB DPS roles in such a way that improvement would be too much. The old model was good. Let players trade potency for sustain straight-up. It's simple and it works.
Siphoning tanks used to be one of my favorite play styles in ESO. After TG? Nah. I'll just play my Temp (ain't that just a glowing endorsement?)2 -
SublimeSparo✭✭✭✭✭This proposed change has me rather concerned
after getting bored of my dk tank i switched to a nb tank and have been enjoying it immensely, trading the better mitigation/ sturdiness of the dk for the better resource management (most of the time, damn RNG) of the nb made for a much more interesting experience.
As a ps4 player i even bought a PC license so i could test the changes on PTS but not having a regular PC account means no transfer, so i can't truly test my character or ideas of compensating for the changes (not too mention i find it awkward as hell playing this game on a keyboard and mouse lol)
Has anyone realistically tested the efficacy of these changes, ie tanking vDSA/ vWGT / trials etc.
Will it be impossible to carry on without remaking new endgame gear so soon after making it?
My only thoughts would be to lose even more resistance/ block cost reduction etc in favour of stacking tons of magicka regen to sap/ funnel like crazy and hope for the best
PS4 EU CP900. PS4 NA CP600,
vAA HM ☆ vHRC HM ☆ vSO HM ☆ vMOL
4th Console vMOL clear,
vMA cleared on all classes stam & magic
My TribeEU
High Sparo - Altmer - mSo DD.
Wood Sparo - Bosmer - sNB DD
Nord Sparo - Nord -sDK DD/Tank.
Bubble Girl - Imperial -sTe DD
Succubus Sue - Breton - mNB Tank.
Andrana Stormlock - Altmer - mTe Healer/ DD
Elvali Marvani - Dunmer - mDK DD.
Venemus Draconem - Redguard - sDK DD
Jayri Leki - Redguard - sSo DD.
Miss Jabsalot - Altmer - mTe PvP DD/ Tank
Mireli Hlaano - Dunmer - mNB DD.
Ms Shanks - Redguard - sNB DD/ le bank
NA
Dilemma Dame - Altmer - mDK DD
Stamsorc Kitty - Redguard - sSor DD
Aia Draconis - Imperial - sDK Tank
Decides-Who-Lives - Argonian - mTe Healer
You wont stop me - Altmer - mSo DD
Stab in the dark - Khajiit - sNB DD
Jabjabjab Beambeambeam - Dunmer - mTe DD
Spatium Auxiliarus - Imperial - hTe Tank&bank
Spectre - Altmer - mNB DD
Can't-Main-Tank -Argonian - sDK offTank0 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭From today's PTS patch notes:Nightblade
Siphoning
Leeching Strikes (Siphoning Attacks morph): Increased the amount of Health restored from this morph to 3% of your maximum Health from 2%.
Siphoning Attacks: Increased the amount of resources provided by this ability and the Siphoning Attacks morph by roughly 10%.
I jumped on PTS to see how this looked in-game because this patch note doesn't specify if the amount for SA's resource return was to the amount for doing basic attacks or to the proc. Here are the new tooltip values:
"Light and Heavy attacks restore 1090 Magicka and Stamina. All other direct damage abilities have a 10% chance to restore an additional 2181 Magicka and Stamina."
Good news: they buffed the correct part of the ability, raising it from 1944 Mag/Stam returned on proc. The issue is whether or not this ~10% increase is enough. At first glance, I don't think it is. Although the proc now provides slightly more magicka than the base ability cost (2175), this still means you need it to proc at least twice within 15 seconds to see any benefit. Considering you have to spend Mag/Stam on your direct damage abilities to potentially return Mag/Stam with SA, the payoff still seems questionable on paper. Perhaps ability cost reduction will become more important for NB tanks now in order to get the most out of SA.
EDIT: Leeching Strikes is still pointless for any build.Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on February 16, 2016 8:51PMGore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden1 -
Miwerton✭✭✭And now the pts says 3% health from leeching strikes, still meh, wont use it not good enough.
4 -
hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭A better synergy between HA and a Shadow ability would be achievedThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »From today's PTS patch notes:Nightblade
Siphoning
Leeching Strikes (Siphoning Attacks morph): Increased the amount of Health restored from this morph to 3% of your maximum Health from 2%.
Siphoning Attacks: Increased the amount of resources provided by this ability and the Siphoning Attacks morph by roughly 10%.
I jumped on PTS to see how this looked in-game because this patch note doesn't specify if the amount for SA's resource return was to the amount for doing basic attacks or to the proc. Here are the new tooltip values:
"Light and Heavy attacks restore 1090 Magicka and Stamina. All other direct damage abilities have a 10% chance to restore an additional 2181 Magicka and Stamina."
Good news: they buffed the correct part of the ability, raising it from 1944 Mag/Stam returned on proc. The issue is whether or not this ~10% increase is enough. At first glance, I don't think it is. Although the proc now provides slightly more magicka than the base ability cost (2175), this still means you need it to proc at least twice within 15 seconds to see any benefit. Considering you have to spend Mag/Stam on your direct damage abilities to potentially return Mag/Stam with SA, the payoff still seems questionable on paper. Perhaps ability cost reduction will become more important for NB tanks now in order to get the most out of SA.
Also on PTS now with my normal live character with all my 433 CP (easier for testing)
It appears that the damage of Swallow Soul and her heals has gone down (with more than 10%)
giving it a thorough look this evening.
EDIT:
After testing: Damage is exactly the same Edited by hrothbern on February 17, 2016 6:36AM"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU1 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
SA is pointless? Are you kidding me? The absurd amount of ressources that this ability gives back makes me wonder why anyone ever complained about battle roar and not about SA. Oh, that's because the majority of the playerbase is NB, sorryWolfingHour wrote: »I entirely agree with this.
SA as it stands now looks pretty much pointless, much like Earthen Hearth procs. Dark Deal and Restoring Aura are even worst.
If the point of this is to align NB tanks to other tanks, I say do the opposite and bring those skills closer to what we have since standing there like a muppet just blocking + taunting isn't the least bit fun.
Doing other things like bring utility, healing and dps (last two on a much lower effect of dedicated builds) is the fun bit.
0 -
hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭
SA is pointless? Are you kidding me? The absurd amount of ressources that this ability gives back makes me wonder why anyone ever complained about battle roar and not about SA. Oh, that's because the majority of the playerbase is NB, sorryWolfingHour wrote: »I entirely agree with this.
SA as it stands now looks pretty much pointless, much like Earthen Hearth procs. Dark Deal and Restoring Aura are even worst.
If the point of this is to align NB tanks to other tanks, I say do the opposite and bring those skills closer to what we have since standing there like a muppet just blocking + taunting isn't the least bit fun.
Doing other things like bring utility, healing and dps (last two on a much lower effect of dedicated builds) is the fun bit.
@Etaniel ,
I do not understand you
IF a NB DD uses SA and Light Attack weaving he does get lots of resources
But if a NB Siphoning Tank uses SA he cannot do standard light attack weaving, and is really short in resources
are you referring to the DD or the Tank?"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU0 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
SA is pointless? Are you kidding me? The absurd amount of ressources that this ability gives back makes me wonder why anyone ever complained about battle roar and not about SA. Oh, that's because the majority of the playerbase is NB, sorryWolfingHour wrote: »I entirely agree with this.
SA as it stands now looks pretty much pointless, much like Earthen Hearth procs. Dark Deal and Restoring Aura are even worst.
If the point of this is to align NB tanks to other tanks, I say do the opposite and bring those skills closer to what we have since standing there like a muppet just blocking + taunting isn't the least bit fun.
Doing other things like bring utility, healing and dps (last two on a much lower effect of dedicated builds) is the fun bit.
@Etaniel ,
I do not understand you
IF a NB DD uses SA and Light Attack weaving he does get lots of resources
But if a NB Siphoning Tank uses SA he cannot do standard light attack weaving, and is really short in resources
are you referring to the DD or the Tank?
Both. Light attack weaving as a tank is easy, i do it on my DK, in PvP gear.
Even if you don't weave as efficiently as a DD because you'll have to block a bit more,( you don't need as much regen anyways because you're not spamming skills) you can easily land a few light attacks here and there.
Pve tanking is already a joke, when most content can be done without a tank and by just putting 4 strong DD,
And here you have a skill that basically grants you 2K more regen, and people complaining that it's too weak...... I'm really confused on why people think this skill deserves to be buffed, it's incredibly strong as it is0 -
hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭
SA is pointless? Are you kidding me? The absurd amount of ressources that this ability gives back makes me wonder why anyone ever complained about battle roar and not about SA. Oh, that's because the majority of the playerbase is NB, sorryWolfingHour wrote: »I entirely agree with this.
SA as it stands now looks pretty much pointless, much like Earthen Hearth procs. Dark Deal and Restoring Aura are even worst.
If the point of this is to align NB tanks to other tanks, I say do the opposite and bring those skills closer to what we have since standing there like a muppet just blocking + taunting isn't the least bit fun.
Doing other things like bring utility, healing and dps (last two on a much lower effect of dedicated builds) is the fun bit.
@Etaniel ,
I do not understand you
IF a NB DD uses SA and Light Attack weaving he does get lots of resources
But if a NB Siphoning Tank uses SA he cannot do standard light attack weaving, and is really short in resources
are you referring to the DD or the Tank?
Both. Light attack weaving as a tank is easy, i do it on my DK, in PvP gear.
Even if you don't weave as efficiently as a DD because you'll have to block a bit more,( you don't need as much regen anyways because you're not spamming skills) you can easily land a few light attacks here and there.
Pve tanking is already a joke, when most content can be done without a tank and by just putting 4 strong DD,
And here you have a skill that basically grants you 2K more regen, and people complaining that it's too weak...... I'm really confused on why people think this skill deserves to be buffed, it's incredibly strong as it is
ok, thanks
Understand what you mean :-)
Yeah.... if there is no real tanking content, and your mates can blast through.... then everything has become DPS
EDIT
But SA is not OP at all for weaker and more casual groups..Edited by hrothbern on February 16, 2016 5:51PM"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU0 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭
SA is pointless? Are you kidding me? The absurd amount of ressources that this ability gives back makes me wonder why anyone ever complained about battle roar and not about SA. Oh, that's because the majority of the playerbase is NB, sorryWolfingHour wrote: »I entirely agree with this.
SA as it stands now looks pretty much pointless, much like Earthen Hearth procs. Dark Deal and Restoring Aura are even worst.
If the point of this is to align NB tanks to other tanks, I say do the opposite and bring those skills closer to what we have since standing there like a muppet just blocking + taunting isn't the least bit fun.
Doing other things like bring utility, healing and dps (last two on a much lower effect of dedicated builds) is the fun bit.
@Etaniel ,
I do not understand you
IF a NB DD uses SA and Light Attack weaving he does get lots of resources
But if a NB Siphoning Tank uses SA he cannot do standard light attack weaving, and is really short in resources
are you referring to the DD or the Tank?
Both. Light attack weaving as a tank is easy, i do it on my DK, in PvP gear.
Even if you don't weave as efficiently as a DD because you'll have to block a bit more,( you don't need as much regen anyways because you're not spamming skills) you can easily land a few light attacks here and there.
Pve tanking is already a joke, when most content can be done without a tank and by just putting 4 strong DD,
And here you have a skill that basically grants you 2K more regen, and people complaining that it's too weak...... I'm really confused on why people think this skill deserves to be buffed, it's incredibly strong as it is
Yea, unfortunately the change made sustain as NB DPS even stronger and most content is a joke. This thread is assuming tanking what difficult content there is. If you're confused as to why the changes to SA are a problem for NB tanks read the OP.Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on February 16, 2016 5:55PMGore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden0 -
efster✭✭✭✭✭I've been playing without SA on live with my NB tank since the changes were announced just to get an idea of how things will be -- haven't been to vDSA but I ran into significant sustain issues during the Flesh Sculptor fight as soon as more than 3 flesh atros were up, and on the 4 Lord Warden's Lackeys with all the traps (whether trying to AOE them down or killing them one at a time). In vWGT I had a little trouble keeping stamina up against hard mode Kena (with no templar in group) but recovered by kiting her a bit while spamming harness magicka. So the vet content outside of trials is still very much doable as a NB tank without relying on SA (and far easier of course if I use SA + light attacks/sap) but it's not a "fun to play" experience.
From my experience so far in MoL (and, briefly, vMoL) everything a post-TG NB tank can do, a DK can do better.The increase on resource return in the latest patch is laughable and not nearly enough: dropping block to light attack is a death sentence in vMoL against the boss that reduces your armour rating to 0. Not to mention we have no reliable way of dealing with the untauntable senche adds. I personally don't see any reason to bother with vMoL progression as a NB tank; it's 100% stress and 0% fun.AD is the best looking faction. I don't make the rules, I just enforce them.2 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭zmobie_dementor wrote: »
From my experience so far in MoL (and, briefly, vMoL) everything a post-TG NB tank can do, a DK can do better.The increase on resource return in the latest patch is laughable and not nearly enough: dropping block to light attack is a death sentence in vMoL against the boss that reduces your armour rating to 0..
i don't see a major problem here, i don't want all classes to perform equally in all fields, ruins the purpose of classes in the first place. Bosses dont attack every .1 sec, its not THAT challeging to land a light attack and put block again in half a second0 -
WolfingHour✭✭✭✭zmobie_dementor wrote: »
From my experience so far in MoL (and, briefly, vMoL) everything a post-TG NB tank can do, a DK can do better.The increase on resource return in the latest patch is laughable and not nearly enough: dropping block to light attack is a death sentence in vMoL against the boss that reduces your armour rating to 0..
i don't see a major problem here, i don't want all classes to perform equally in all fields, ruins the purpose of classes in the first place. Bosses dont attack every .1 sec, its not THAT challeging to land a light attack and put block again in half a second
It's really not a good idea to dtop your shield in trails considering latency and one shot light attacks ftom bosses.
As for SA, can we have ripost, valkin skoria meteorites and nerien'erh crystals to proc it since they are not dots?Edited by WolfingHour on February 16, 2016 7:01PM4