Atronach isn't just damage though, and certainly not single target damage. I'll admit it's not the greatest but it's also not the worst ult we have. Negate needs way more attention. As a side note your atronach benefits the same way all pets do, the more magicka you have and also points into thaumaturge and elemental expert both increase it's DPS. If you go with daedric prey it also increases it damage. As far it dying it can use your wards and it can even be healed.

I don't understand why they allow the Storm Atronach to be CC'd in the first place. Replacing it with another Daedra could also work especially if they ever release spellcrafting so fire, frost and storm atronachs are available to all classes.

Zaryc wrote: »

Armann wrote: »

I don't understand why they allow the Storm Atronach to be CC'd in the first place. Replacing it with another Daedra could also work especially if they ever release spellcrafting so fire, frost and storm atronachs are available to all classes.

Sorry, I had to do this

Well to be fair you chose the aoe version of the attro for your showcase.

The problem all pets of the sorc class have is: They only scale with max magica and not spelldmg. On top of that you have an otherwise useless curse morph with no other means than buffing petdmg (just make it a snare getting progresively stronger 45 to 70% over 5s with the explosion in the end). Raise petdmg flatout by the amount buffed by curse atm.

IF (big if really) you build your character for pet dmg they can be pretty solid. However it´s simply a stupid design decision to have pets (and basically the whole skillline) scale differently from everything else (apart from curse all skills in deadric summoning are 100% magica based). You can never try things. You can´t mix and match. If go for pets of any form you have to fully commit to this. That´s the underlying problem in my opinion.

If you´d buff attronarch to a level where it´s worthwile on normal builds it would be stupidly op on a petbuild (edit: i should add that attro is only ever useful in duels).

Joy_Division wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Atronach isn't just damage though, and certainly not single target damage. I'll admit it's not the greatest but it's also not the worst ult we have. Negate needs way more attention. As a side note your atronach benefits the same way all pets do, the more magicka you have and also points into thaumaturge and elemental expert both increase it's DPS. If you go with daedric prey it also increases it damage. As far it dying it can use your wards and it can even be healed.

Are you suggesting that it would be better for me to use 200 ultimate and devote additional resources and mana to keeping it alive for 18 seconds for modest damage and the off chance that an unintelligent enemy might target it instead of using 132 ultimate to eliminate the enemy altogether in 5 seconds? Of course I *could* do that, but why would I?

I never said any of that. I wouldn't use the Atronach in Maelstrom Arena personally. There are far better choices. If you choose to, bully for you. The Atronach like all ultimates is situational. It doesn't just do DPS.

Now here's the thing.

You don't come out and say it, but you seem to be implying that the point of my post is incorrect and that the Storm Atronach ultimate is at an acceptable place (even if it's not great). OK, can you provide some evidence outside of anecdotes and the sort of fast and vague incomplete theory-crafting you offer? How many of the top Maelstrom Arena Leaderboards use Storm Atronach instead of Overload? Should be SOME right, because, as you say, the atronach is not single target damage and there are many enemies in the arena. And the atronach can drawn off potential aggro, surely useful right? So who uses it? Anyone?

See that's just it. I didn't say it. I am not one to mince words either. I tend to say what I mean. The problem isn't that I implied anything. You inferred it. Incorrectly. Why is the benchmark of success or viability of an ultimate based upon Maelstrom Arena? There are other things to do in the game.

I used it. And my best time is not in the top 100. Is this a L2P issue on my part because I'm not a skilled player who does not know how to make a good build with Atronach? Possible. I have a PvP build that is neither devoted to pets or DPS. Or is this a L2P issue on my part because I insist on using a terrible ultimate because I find sleeping on a bed of nails more enjoyable than the Overload-toggle style sorcerer? Judging from the commentary I received from my Maelstrom guide from players who were actually on those Leaderboards, it's the latter.

You can use whatever you like as long it works for you. If the Atronach isn't working for you, don't use it. I was only stating that if any of our ultimates needed some love it would be Negate. You have more than just your class ultimates BTW. Sometimes I use Meteor, or Barrier, or even Clouding Swarm. I know that Dawnbreaker is popular by some. Not my preference, but if it works for others so be it.

How many builds on sites dedicated to people showcasing or bragging about their characters are devoted to the Storm Atronach? You might think Thelon, the "Unholy Herdsman," devoted to pets. But even he, who has taken pet theorycrafting farther than probably anyone else, does not use Storm Atronach! In the most challenging encounters he has recently posted on his channel, he's using Overload and Meteor for his ultimates.

That's his choice. It is a part of my pet build, and it works great for me as a CC and AoE DPS. It's not that difficult to keep it alive either. You have to cast your ward anyway. And Combat Prayer buffs it too BTW. I don't' expect you would know that since you have already written it off as useless.

Whenever someone uses Storm Atrnoach in PvP, my raid leader literally laughs and tells us to regain ultimate. I do not think it is at all an acceptable state of affairs that someone's ultimate that costs 200 points can even be considered a joke that elicits mockery. The Atrnoach can potentially be useful in a duel situation as it can prompt an opponent to move, but this is stretching the definition of useful as meteor - especially now on the PTS as it cannot be reflectable - is a potential fight winner. As is, of course, Overload.

Again I don't personally use it PvP, but I have used it in the past. Unlike your raid leader I can see it's value in PvP. You drop the Atronach on flags and instantly stuns all the casters around the flag and then does damage to them AoE, and unlike other AoEs they tend to focus on the pet as the new threat. If you cast against other players it has a similar effect of causing a stun and it's fairly large so they tend to hit it instead of you. Those are just a couple of scenarios. I'm sure someone more creative than me can come up with more.

Who is using Storm Atronach and - winning - in competitive situations? To be honest, I hope I am wrong and I can play some other way. Maybe I just missed the DPS specs out there who pull top numbers with atronach. Or those PvP guilds who PuGs fear because of their extensive use of atronachs. I'd be thrilled to L2Atronach.

Again, it's not always about top numbers. You really need to move away from myopic thinking.

I slot Storm Atro on my spam bar... for the resource regen passive!

Obviously Overload or Meteor on my back bar.

Joy_Division wrote: »

@eventide03b14a_ESO

If you are going to call me out for implying stuff you didn't say, you should not do the same to me. I did not write Atronach off as useless - indeed if I use it (as plainly admitted), then there is no question that your inference is wrong. Yet you wrote it anyway. I said it needed a buff.

Am I wrong? You say it works great for you yet not use in an instance ZoS designed for leaderboards because you claim there are far better choices [!]. That's pretty damning. No, Maelstrom isn't the only instance and it's not always about the numbers, but numbers drive the competition in this game and if very few sorcerers are using Storm Atronach in the new Trial and hardly any of the most prominent PvP guilds are dropping Atrnoachs on Castle Flags (err, they use Negate), then that indicates that my thinking is perhaps not so myopic

That paragraph was barely coherent. I took what you had said and I parsed it. I thought I was rather clear about pointing out your logical fallacies. Obviously it didn't work. I see no point in carrying on this pointless debate.

is this a joke?

Shader_Shibes wrote: »

Like sorcs need buffed? Am i in some alternate reality here?

not sure if you've ever used atro before but its garbage. It almost never does anything except act as a meatshield.

1st: Combine Greater and Charged Atronach into 1 Morph

2nd: Turn the 2nd Morph into a Frost Atronach which behaves like regular seen Frost Atronachs with all their attacks, but on Summon roots up to 6 People for 3 seconds, and chills / slows the rest in a Radius similar to Nova from Templar . This Version would allow the Winterborn set be more useful because there is almost NO Frost based Abilities at all. Also results in a really interesting Ult because its "Alive" and fights aside you like the other summoned stuff.

3rd: Make both Morphs immune to CC

Overload and Atro are just fine from a PvP perspective. Atro is good, and Overload is op af. Idk about PvE though.

I used to run a pvp pet build with 56k magic (sub 300 champ points) , and it was pretty effective pre-50% damage nerf and EVERYONE having vigor. I built it because I was tired of meteor being reflected and killing myself with my own spell power haha, So I'd pet explode for 16-22k, keep my twilight focused on my target (even hit if the opponent was going into stealth or dodge rolling) and atronoch for when people got to crafty and I'd run around it, letting others cast their ultimates into it instead of me. Sypher even acknowledged and complemented me on the non-cookie cutter build that actually got him solo a few times.

After the 50% damage nerf, and they moved vigor down so everyone who has done a week of pvp has vigor... the pets just didn't burst enough to kill. Next patch they remove the explosion so pet builds have zero burst damage potential. And with atronoch being CC able and meteor now being unreflectable there is ZERO reason to use it. Please note that "pet" gear has not been available since VR12 ~necropotence. (besides stamina set pet summons which don't go off max mana but weapon damage, and are incredibly hard to get a proc off of, and those are melee range pets so they have to run to the enemy or chase them to get any dps whatsoever in)

Disclaimer: My perspective is PvE centric

There's some misinformation going on in here, thought I'd clear it up...

Derra wrote: »

They only scale with max magica and not spelldmg.

No, the Atronach scales with both Spell Damage and Magicka, as an ultimate should. This is easily testable by obtaining your normal strike strength/zap strength, downing a spell pot, and casting it again.

dsalter wrote: »

and the synergy for storm is quite pathetic, so short if they don't tone the cost down they will need to boost the duration of this as well.

25% damage increase for your buddy for 8 seconds isn't good? If they're a strong dps (assume: 20-25kps) it adds 40-50k damage from them alone, just as much damage as some ultimates do normally.

Atronach vs Overload is not an apples to apples comparison. It's like comparing Standard to Werewolf. Atronach vs Meteor is closer; Both are initial strike plus avoidable bonus damage. Here's some test numbers of Greater Storm Atro vs Ice Comet.

Gearing is Julianos/Willpower 3 Spell Glyphs/Kena 1 piece/ Maelstrom Sharpened staff/ 501cp 100EE/ 66Elfborn/ 7 Divines Thief. Both parses are buffed with Surge, Combat Prayer, and Elemental Drain. Greater Atro was buffed with Daedric Curse.

I had real difficulty getting a one-skill kill with Ice Comet. I either had to crit on the direct damage and a good number of the dots, or nearly every dot, as pictured. Mammoths often lived through it with 2-10k health, assuming they did not charge out of the Ice dot. Stating average cast strength in full spell gear as 110-120k HP, then, is reasonable. Mammoths have 133.1k.


The Atronach, on the other hand, readily defeated the Mammoth. It used 16 of its possible 23 Zap strikes, and was alive for 8 seconds past the death of the Mammoth. With my crit (65%) and the average Zap strength, it'd be fair to say that an Atronach cast does 175k or so with my stats. Daedric Prey was worth 50k of that number; removing its damage buff would bring the skill's total damage down to par with Ice Comet.

Now, there are differences of course. Meteor is vastly superior in AoE situations, and it also scales much better with Champion Points. Elemental Expert and Thaumaturge will both increase its damage under the current PTS system; Only Elemental Expert increases the Atronach's damage, and only the initial strike. The Zap skill is impossible to buff directly with CP. Neither Ele Expert, Thaumaturge, Mighty, Elfborn, nor Precise Strikes managed to increase its value. The Atronach, like all pets, is locked to 1.5x crit damage.
On the other hand, it's much harder to get out of range of the Atronach's bonus damage; targets which don't disable it through death or cc are likely to take the entire duration. It's also possible for your teammates to increase its damage or survivability, through synergizing or directly buffing it with Combat Prayer/Ele Drain/ Siphon Spirit (the health regen does apply to pets)/ Barrier/ etc. Haven't tested everything that could possibly land on it.

It's hard for me to say which one is better, I'd have to take it on a challenge-by-challenge basis, which I frankly don't care to do. Because it has vitality and entity presence, you'd have to take care of *when* to cast the Atronach. Dropping it during the poison or World Shaper phase of Sanctum would be a bad idea, for example. If Zeni were to buff it, I'd say it'd be pretty straightforward. Make CP matter to Daedra!

And no, I wouldn't use it in vMA either. But, an ultimate doesn't need to be universal for it to be useful