Cyrodiil performance

JDar · October 2015

If the game isn't responsive enough for you and you are certain it is not an internet issue or a server- responsiveness issue you should download Process Explorer for Microsoft Windows. It will allow you to see how much VRAM your ESO.EXE process is using. Then you should get the GPU-Z utility, which will tell you how much VRAM your graphics card has.

This RAM is distinct from your system ram, so if you have 16GB of RAM in your system that is not your VRAM. Most video cards and GPU's have anywhere from 2-4 GB VRAM.

On my system, just running around in Craglorn, ESO uses about 1.3 million kilobytes which is close to 1 GB VRAM. That's running at 1080p in Ultra, about 60 fps with a ton of addons. So you can see memory goes quickly and if you don't have well over a gigabyte of VRAM your graphical performance will drop quite a bit.

edited for readability.

Raizin · October 2015

Slaxis wrote: »

Lol did you honestly think ZOS fixed pvp

who?

no...

Johngo0036 · October 2015

@ZOS_BrianWheeler - You have been looking into this for AGES now,
Thank God you don't work on systems where lives depend on it,
as you would probably not have any customers left...

I am a software engineer myself and understand the issues.
I also know how difficult it is to find the actual cause of the issue,

Have you looked into why some skills cause more lag than others when spammed,
Like Healing springs/Meteor spammed over and over by groups of people cause the SERVER to lag..

There has to be a reason for this.

Wollust · October 2015

"We're looking into it."

Robbmrp · October 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Just for clarity sake as well; when we talk about server performance, we're talking about when you cast an ability or use your weapon and it registers no damage/effects at all or rubber-banding.

Hello @ZOS_BrianWheeler are you also looking at the FPS Drop issue? I've changed nothing about my game and I never had this issue prior to the IC update. When you can run around with 100 FPS and have it drop to 1 in a huge battle, it's a real problem. It does this when using or not using Addons also, so it isn't an Addon issue.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

When talking about issues with the client; they're usually things such as FPS loss or dropped frames.

When talking about "lag" or situations where you push a button/click the mouse and nothing happens, that's server performance. Staying stuck in one place or all the sudden warping forward or backward (rubber-banding) is also server performance.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, were some of the LOS calculations moved to the Client side with the Imperial City update? The reason I ask, is that no one seemed to have the FPS drop issue prior to that update yet a lot of people have it after.

When I loaded up IC and having this FPS problem, I didn't have ANY Addons installed, yet every time a group vs group clashed, FPS dropped to 1-5. This was exactly the same point where prior to IC, spells would not cast, you couldn't weapon swap or interact with things which is server performance as you indicated above. Nothing changed about my game prior to/after this update so it's not my system or ISP.

Also worth noting, now that IC has been out for over a month with various patches put out, I don't seem to have this problem as much. I also have a ton of Addons now where as before I had none. It could have something to do with smaller groups that I've ran with/into but who knows.

ZOS_BrianWheeler · October 2015

We have been looking into physics calls on the server and the combat team is making adjustments to abilities to streamline the amount of calls they make as some were a bit...excessive. We'll be able to update you on those changes when the team is all done making those changes. The LOS changes had a very small effect on performance which is why we're looking at physics calls next. Population being spread between the three PVP zones has helped, but obviously server frames can still take a nasty hit as we've seen in Azura and other situations. The crew is still working on resolving these issues as fast as they can.

Docmandu · October 2015

@ZOS_BrianWheeler thanks for the feedback, much appreciated!

edit: sorry can't help myself, what about that in-combat bug?!

Etaniel · October 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have been looking into physics calls on the server and the combat team is making adjustments to abilities to streamline the amount of calls they make as some were a bit...excessive. We'll be able to update you on those changes when the team is all done making those changes. The LOS changes had a very small effect on performance which is why we're looking at physics calls next. Population being spread between the three PVP zones has helped, but obviously server frames can still take a nasty hit as we've seen in Azura and other situations. The crew is still working on resolving these issues as fast as they can.

Of course spreading out the pop has helped... I could tell you how to eradicate lag forever : reduce the cap to 3 people per faction on each campaign and you'll never hear a complaint about lag again....

In the end I want the pop caps to increase back to the beta levels and to have decent server performance like we are capable of having on non vet campaigns.

Now it seems your engineers have been stuck on this issue for the past year, and even though I'm sure they worked hard for some fixes, their effects were barely noticed.
So maybe instead of waiting for those guys to come up with a fix (I hope they eventually find one), maybe, just maybe you could look into ways to get rid of the incentive to create lagblobs that spam aoe even when there is no one around and who are the main cause of the bad server performance.
When I say "you" it's a general message to ZOS, I know you are only in charge of PvP, even though I think PvP design could use some work as well. Redesigning keeps to have more flags for example, with one on each floor to force people to spread..

Minno · October 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have been looking into physics calls on the server and the combat team is making adjustments to abilities to streamline the amount of calls they make as some were a bit...excessive. We'll be able to update you on those changes when the team is all done making those changes. The LOS changes had a very small effect on performance which is why we're looking at physics calls next. Population being spread between the three PVP zones has helped, but obviously server frames can still take a nasty hit as we've seen in Azura and other situations. The crew is still working on resolving these issues as fast as they can.

Thanks!

Can you explain "physics calls" for those of us not familiar with the code? I want to assume it refers to calculations when spells with knock backs, etc occur.

ZOS_BrianWheeler · October 2015

Physics calls are anything where the server and client need to communicate player position updates via abilities (konckbacks, knockdowns, teleports, etc) and line of sight checks whether it's at the beginning of a cast or at the end of a cast (and sometimes both).

FireCowCommando · October 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Physics calls are anything where the server and client need to communicate player position updates via abilities (konckbacks, knockdowns, teleports, etc) and line of sight checks whether it's at the beginning of a cast or at the end of a cast (and sometimes both).

So... if im reading this right... players are wrecking blow your servers, too? Ouch!

Garion · October 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have been looking into physics calls on the server and the combat team is making adjustments to abilities to streamline the amount of calls they make as some were a bit...excessive. We'll be able to update you on those changes when the team is all done making those changes. The LOS changes had a very small effect on performance which is why we're looking at physics calls next. Population being spread between the three PVP zones has helped, but obviously server frames can still take a nasty hit as we've seen in Azura and other situations. The crew is still working on resolving these issues as fast as they can.

Of course spreading out the pop has helped... I could tell you how to eradicate lag forever : reduce the cap to 3 people per faction on each campaign and you'll never hear a complaint about lag again....

In the end I want the pop caps to increase back to the beta levels and to have decent server performance like we are capable of having on non vet campaigns.

Now it seems your engineers have been stuck on this issue for the past year, and even though I'm sure they worked hard for some fixes, their effects were barely noticed.
So maybe instead of waiting for those guys to come up with a fix (I hope they eventually find one), maybe, just maybe you could look into ways to get rid of the incentive to create lagblobs that spam aoe even when there is no one around and who are the main cause of the bad server performance.
When I say "you" it's a general message to ZOS, I know you are only in charge of PvP, even though I think PvP design could use some work as well. Redesigning keeps to have more flags for example, with one on each floor to force people to spread..

I always love how posts such as these get blatantly ignored by the dev team. It's embarassing really, and just goes to show they have absolutely no interest in sorting this problem which is actually the root cause.

WaTeR-aBuSeR · October 2015

Sadly, I've had issues in places where I never did before. Dragonstar arena, or group dungeons, shoot even loading into Mournhold I've had major issues. People walking around as solid black figures for a good min. No difference between min and max settings either. I've always run highest possible since launch and since I came back after a couple months I've had issues

. However, cyrodiil is less laggy but other areas are worse. Instanced zones such as DTA I feel have taken a hit due to Imperical city and sewers being created. I doubt they increased the server size when they did this and quite possibly have downgraded servers since launch which would account for the issues in Mournhold I have now.

Minno · October 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Physics calls are anything where the server and client need to communicate player position updates via abilities (konckbacks, knockdowns, teleports, etc) and line of sight checks whether it's at the beginning of a cast or at the end of a cast (and sometimes both).

Thanks Brian!

Sureshawt · October 2015

Performance has improved overall for me. However, the zerg blob AoE spamming still causes a huge performance hit.

Raizin · October 2015

Garion wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have been looking into physics calls on the server and the combat team is making adjustments to abilities to streamline the amount of calls they make as some were a bit...excessive. We'll be able to update you on those changes when the team is all done making those changes. The LOS changes had a very small effect on performance which is why we're looking at physics calls next. Population being spread between the three PVP zones has helped, but obviously server frames can still take a nasty hit as we've seen in Azura and other situations. The crew is still working on resolving these issues as fast as they can.

Of course spreading out the pop has helped... I could tell you how to eradicate lag forever : reduce the cap to 3 people per faction on each campaign and you'll never hear a complaint about lag again....

In the end I want the pop caps to increase back to the beta levels and to have decent server performance like we are capable of having on non vet campaigns.

Now it seems your engineers have been stuck on this issue for the past year, and even though I'm sure they worked hard for some fixes, their effects were barely noticed.
So maybe instead of waiting for those guys to come up with a fix (I hope they eventually find one), maybe, just maybe you could look into ways to get rid of the incentive to create lagblobs that spam aoe even when there is no one around and who are the main cause of the bad server performance.
When I say "you" it's a general message to ZOS, I know you are only in charge of PvP, even though I think PvP design could use some work as well. Redesigning keeps to have more flags for example, with one on each floor to force people to spread..

I always love how posts such as these get blatantly ignored by the dev team. It's embarassing really, and just goes to show they have absolutely no interest in sorting this problem which is actually the root cause.

its time for u to call certain someone out and flame him Lasto!

prootch · October 2015

Server obviously had a hard time yesterday (Azura - EU):
6 crashes in a row while it nevers happens otherwise, very high ping (999+) around 5pm, no addons, no pb with provider ... had to switch campaign: and... almost no lag on trueflamme.
And then again... Azura eu midnight... 400+ ping...

Docmandu · October 2015

prootch wrote: »

Server obviously had a hard time yesterday (Azura - EU):
6 crashes in a row while it nevers happens otherwise, very high ping (999+) around 5pm, no addons, no pb with provider ... had to switch campaign: and... almost no lag on trueflamme.
And then again... Azura eu midnight... 400+ ping...

It was actually more wide spread.. as PvE lands were also having problems according to a couple of guildies.

No crashes, but the FPS indicator jumping to 8000+ a couple of times. Fun times!

Armitas · October 2015

It's not just 80 people clashing together. It can't even handle a 3v6 in IC sewers. I could actually tell when that group of six was near because my ping would shoot up to 400+. As soon as they pick me for FF frames go to 10, can't do crap dead. Game can't even handle small groups right now.

(edit. I should preface this with the fact that my campaign was 3-locked on the surface from all 3 sides. )

Quady · October 2015

Why is today performance azura eu so much better (when u not near zerg ball) than yesterday?
Is it cause PTS is offline?

Talcyndl · October 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have been looking into physics calls on the server and the combat team is making adjustments to abilities to streamline the amount of calls they make as some were a bit...excessive. We'll be able to update you on those changes when the team is all done making those changes. The LOS changes had a very small effect on performance which is why we're looking at physics calls next. Population being spread between the three PVP zones has helped, but obviously server frames can still take a nasty hit as we've seen in Azura and other situations. The crew is still working on resolving these issues as fast as they can.

You are simply picking at little things that have zero chance of fixing the fundamental issue - zergs spamming abilities. As long as the combat and skill mechanics reward large (30+) groups running in tight balls and spamming AoE abilities, the game is going to lag.

I know you don't have direct control over combat and abilities, but maybe whoever does needs to address that. Otherwise, you might as well change your user name to Don Quixote.

MountainHound · October 2015

Zerg balls will always happen even if they are not organized groups. People see a keep under attack, everyone in the game goes there, sometimes not even the faction who own it or attacking it as that is where the action is happening.

Now IC was different. I encountered almost no lag but LOTS in the memorial district which was normally heavily contested. But down in the sewers when you were grinding gear and stuff, 12 man groups seemed to be the best number to farm with, maybe decreasing group sizes to 12 could "help"? But again, with organized groups, splitting them into 2 x 12 will just see those 2 x 12 running around the same group in balls bombing the flags timed perfectly and this is where, IMO maybe a problem could be fixed.

Perhaps, on flags for example there could be a damage negation for how many people are stood on or around it.

1 person = 1 % weapon/spell reduction
2 people = 2% weapon/ spell reduction
3 people = 3% weapon/spell reduction etc until you are down to nerfing weapon damage to 0% if there is 100 people stood on the flag.

This would in theory mean, 100 people could get wiped by 5 defenders stood on the flag but if it was 100 vs 100 on the flag, zero damage would be done until a group moved away.

This is IMO one of the biggest problems, the zergs will run on a flag, and another zerg will run on and each will chuck down 48 ultimates and spam the AOE to wipe the other, nothing wrong with it in theory but when it lags it is silly.

I mean you could also go one step further and create a "Radius" negation that actives when in close proximity of other players? 4+ members in the same radius of each other = nerf them with 25% damage negation?

ScruffyWhiskers · October 2015

I think performance overall is better. I haven't seen a lot of the really bad lag at the last emp keep like before. It does seem to be more spread out though. What I mean is that my ping is fine during the off hours with medium/low pop (like before) but if I play around 8-11 pm EST then if BRK is on fire, my ping sitting at Arrius or even the morrowind gates is 30-90 ms more than usual (yellow mostly) so 160 to 220 ms range. And it stays there a lot. I've run some tests on my own connection and it seems ok.

I also have noticed a real difficulty in landing melee hits when ping is 140+ ms. I don't remember it being that hard before. It seems just the last few weeks that hitting with melee has gotten significantly harder. Anybody else see this?

ScruffyWhiskers · October 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Physics calls are anything where the server and client need to communicate player position updates via abilities (konckbacks, knockdowns, teleports, etc) and line of sight checks whether it's at the beginning of a cast or at the end of a cast (and sometimes both).

As I mentioned in my other post, it seems to be harder to land melee attacks lately. Have there been changes recently or am I just crazy? Or well more crazy than normal?

MountainHound · October 2015

Gee you guys are lucky. I play from the UK and 150-200 ping for me is a good day.

Robbmrp · October 2015

Talcyndl wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have been looking into physics calls on the server and the combat team is making adjustments to abilities to streamline the amount of calls they make as some were a bit...excessive. We'll be able to update you on those changes when the team is all done making those changes. The LOS changes had a very small effect on performance which is why we're looking at physics calls next. Population being spread between the three PVP zones has helped, but obviously server frames can still take a nasty hit as we've seen in Azura and other situations. The crew is still working on resolving these issues as fast as they can.

You are simply picking at little things that have zero chance of fixing the fundamental issue - zergs spamming abilities. As long as the combat and skill mechanics reward large (30+) groups running in tight balls and spamming AoE abilities, the game is going to lag.

I know you don't have direct control over combat and abilities, but maybe whoever does needs to address that. Otherwise, you might as well change your user name to Don Quixote.

I'm sorry but I don't agree that it's zergs and AOE spells. There were plenty of zergs fighting with AOE's after IC first launched and there was minimal lag. It's only been in the past two weeks in Azura that I've experienced lag. At times, the lag started before we even entered combat with no AOE's being cast. You'll be sitting there at one minute with a ping of 150 and no enemies in sight or fighting and it jumps to 300-999+ when you finally do enter combat. Since it starts when you don't even see the enemy, it's not LOS either. Hopefully it is the physic calls that Brian is mentioning.

Helluin · October 2015

Robbmrp wrote: »

Hello @ZOS_BrianWheeler are you also looking at the FPS Drop issue? I've changed nothing about my game and I never had this issue prior to the IC update. When you can run around with 100 FPS and have it drop to 1 in a huge battle, it's a real problem. It does this when using or not using Addons also, so it isn't an Addon issue.

Since IC update I started to have often the same issue with FPS and not just in Cyrodiil.
In Cyrodiil the drop is bigger (1-5 fps) than in other areas, where the drop reaches between 8 and 15 fps.
I asked in guild and many others have the same issue.
We tried to disable every addon like you but it doesn't work.

Quady · October 2015

Quady wrote: »

Why is today performance azura eu so much better (when u not near zerg ball) than yesterday?
Is it cause PTS is offline?

pts is up and lag and fps drop whn no zerg arround in azura eu is back

25fps feels like 5fps

Waseem · October 2015

cyrodiil performance in all PC EU campaigns is great EXCEPT azura's star
thats how it is for me atleast
and talking about ping. other than azura i have 130-140 ping
on azura its 300-700 while in pvp depends on situation
israel here, and on a premium gamer internet connetion.

sadownik · October 2015

Waseem wrote: »

cyrodiil performance in all PC EU campaigns is great EXCEPT azura's star
thats how it is for me atleast

In other words, performance is great when there is nobody around. Got it.