Cyrodiil performance
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Sarousse✭✭✭✭✭
✭Was doable with the old meta but it's gone. And I'm not talking about AoEing a random PuG group.
Against a large and organised group, you can just sit and die in the lagfest.
We miss real tools to handle those situations as small groups. What did we get ? Siege weapons and... the wonderful guard skill.Edited by Sarousse on October 26, 2015 3:52PM0 -
prootch✭✭✭Remove aoe caps and they will die much quicker, or killl their enemies much quicker, and lag won't last as long.
24 man groups will take 4 times the damage they are taking now, they will drop way faster, the server will be better off.
did you notice that making the fights shorter is not the trend of the game atm ?
Additionnaly since it's a lot easier to fight with aoe stacks than mono target skills, the group which will succeed in stacking more aoe (multi aoe warband) will win... so from times to times your team of 4 "overskilled" players will eventually destroy a warband of newbies unable to coordinate... and most of the time an organised wb will stack more aoe than you could and wipe you instant.
Then in order to destroy this organised aoe warband, opponents will need to stack two organized aoe warbands... (exactly what is happening now on eu servers with with steel tornadoe groups).Edited by prootch on October 26, 2015 3:58PM0 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »The number of Campaigns will be getting addressed in the patch after Orsineum when some other heavily ingrained Campaign restrictions are adjusted.
Looks like my prediction is going to happen. 2 campaigns gone, IC gates locked, Travel to group leader removed. Will they remove the guest campaign feature? Probably not but be ready for the era of VESTED player commitment. PVP might have a real meaning very soon.
I don't think you are reading into it what he has said before, they may reduce the vet campaigns to under 3 at some point but they are also going to remove the cross faction restriction so one could have an AD and an EP homed on the same server as an example. Not sure if that is what he is talking about in the near future or not, but he has mentioned before that it will be on the agenda.“Whatever.”
-Unknown American1 -
Efficient✭✭✭Was doable with the old meta but it's gone. And I'm not talking about AoEing a random PuG group.
Against a large and organised group, you can just sit and die in the lagfest.
We miss real tools to handle those situations as small groups. What did we get ? Siege weapons and... the wonderful guard skill.
I think you are still missing the point, irregardless of a large random PUG group or a large organized group, the AOE cap mechanic gives them an advantage. You may not win, as they have more players... that's what their advantage should be... more players. But to take significantly less damage because they are stacked on one another, makes no sense.3 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Remove aoe caps and they will die much quicker, or killl their enemies much quicker, and lag won't last as long.
24 man groups will take 4 times the damage they are taking now, they will drop way faster, the server will be better off.
did you notice that making the fights shorter is not the trend of the game atm ?
Additionnaly since it's a lot easier to fight with aoe stacks than mono target skills, the group which will succeed in stacking more aoe (multi aoe warband) will win... so from times to times your team of 4 "overskilled" players will eventually destroy a warband of newbies unable to coordinate...
Where did I mention "4 overskilled player" groups? And anyways it's besides the point, because we used to be able to destroy large "warbands" as you call them, even when they were very organized when they stacked too much.
As a small group It is way easier to deal with 15 people stacking together, than it is to deal with 15 people spread out. Simply because you can't aoe them. A banner is more efficient if the 15 people are standing inside it, than if there's only 2 and the rest are safe outside.and most of the time an organised wb will stack more aoe than you could and wipe you instant.
Then in order to destroy this organised aoe warband, opponents will need to stack two organized aoe warbands... (exactly what is happening now on eu servers with with steel tornadoe groups).
Except that as a small group we try to use the element of surprise, so usually the "wb" isn't already spamming aoes when we hit them. You won't need an additional warband to wipe them, you won't need more dmg because all of the group's aoe will be efficient, and not capped to 6 targets. It won't be about who has the biggest group, it'll be about who has the best positionning, engagement and timing.3 -
Sarousse✭✭✭✭✭
✭To be clear. I'm Ok for the AoE damage limitation removing, but it must come with better tools to handle Zergs. And as Fengrush stated, removing the ultimate's player limit would be a very good start.
If not, what Prootch is telling will happen. "Alliance War of the numbers".
Edited by Sarousse on October 26, 2015 4:13PM1 -
prootch✭✭✭aoe stack already gives organized aoe warbands an advantage over everyone... an advantage they will keep whatever you do with or without aoe caps... so the only thing you ll get by suppressing aoe cap is crushings the pugs more easily...
As far as we can see on eu servers we play with Sarousse, the pugs are not the major lag factor... we fight dozens of them without major lag issue. Now clearly organized aoe macro steel tornadoe spammer warbands are mass lag providers: as soon as they die the lag goes down instant.3 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭aoe stack already gives organized aoe warbands an advantage over everyone... an advantage they will keep whatever you do with or without aoe caps... so the only thing you ll get by suppressing aoe cap is crushings the pugs more easily...
As far as we can see on eu servers we play with Sarousse, the pugs are not the major lag factor... we fight dozens of them without major lag issue. Now clearly organized aoe macro steel tornadoe spammer warbands are mass lag providers: as soon as they die the lag goes down instant.
You dont need a macro to spam steel tornado first of all.
And pugz dont make out very well from AOE caps. Pug groups are often not as organized by the nature of being pug groups, they are spread out and not as tight as ball groups. Ball groups make the best use of AOE caps because they are always together. Pug groups wont beat them as is now unless theyre throwing enough stuff to break them. In the case of AOE caps, they will need to throw a lot less in a smaller window than they need to now to break it.2 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭One thing I noticed last night for the first time. I ported to a stronghold that and went out the front door. I received a random tick that was likely generated by someone suiciding and I noticed that a second or two before the tick and for the next 5-10 second after the tick my framerate dropped from 60 to 5-10...and then it was back to perfect right afterwards.
I wonder if their is something in the FTC alliance point parsing that is causing some of the framerate issues we're seeing? When zergballs are around D-ticks/O-ticks and normal AP gains are happening all over, I wonder if that was just a random coincidence or something meaningful?
I don't use FTC and my framerate is still s*** with a GTX980 and an I7-4790K. Everything plays smooth as silk except ESO.1 -
prootch✭✭✭You dont need a macro to spam steel tornado first of all.
100% agree... I even banned it from my wb
And pugz dont make out very well from AOE caps. Pug groups are often not as organized by the nature of being pug groups, they are spread out and not as tight as ball groups. Ball groups make the best use of AOE caps because they are always together. Pug groups wont beat them as is now unless theyre throwing enough stuff to break them. In the case of AOE caps, they will need to throw a lot less in a smaller window than they need to now to break it.
pugs are not the main lag pb atm...
Organized aoe macro spammer warbands are.
Remove aoe caps would encourage that kind of groups... brainless mono button aoe spam stackers. I would really prefer the creation of mass controls to oblige zergs to spread, than encouraging more aoe stacks.Edited by prootch on October 26, 2015 4:35PM0 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You dont need a macro to spam steel tornado first of all.
100% agree... I even banned it from my wbAnd pugz dont make out very well from AOE caps. Pug groups are often not as organized by the nature of being pug groups, they are spread out and not as tight as ball groups. Ball groups make the best use of AOE caps because they are always together. Pug groups wont beat them as is now unless theyre throwing enough stuff to break them. In the case of AOE caps, they will need to throw a lot less in a smaller window than they need to now to break it.
pugs are not the main lag pb atm...
Organized aoe macro spammer warbands are.
Remove aoe caps would encourage that kind of groups... brainless mono button aoe spam stackers. I would really prefer the creation of mass controls to oblige zergs to spread, than encouraging more aoe stacks.
You've got to stop with the tinfoil hat man, warband macro spammers haha
(faut arreter de fumer la moquette, y'en a pas tant que ça des utilisateurs de macro, et surtout c'est pas aussi grave que ça en a l'air)Edited by Etaniel on October 26, 2015 4:41PM0 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭In the case of AOE caps, they will need to throw a lot less in a smaller window than they need to now to break it.
I think we need to be removing AOE in AvA personally, specifically healing AOE. These groups are nothing without their impenetrable globe of healing.
Edited by Xeven on October 26, 2015 4:39PM0 -
Ishammael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You dont need a macro to spam steel tornado first of all.
100% agree... I even banned it from my wbAnd pugz dont make out very well from AOE caps. Pug groups are often not as organized by the nature of being pug groups, they are spread out and not as tight as ball groups. Ball groups make the best use of AOE caps because they are always together. Pug groups wont beat them as is now unless theyre throwing enough stuff to break them. In the case of AOE caps, they will need to throw a lot less in a smaller window than they need to now to break it.
pugs are not the main lag pb atm...
Organized aoe macro spammer warbands are.
Remove aoe caps would encourage that kind of groups... brainless mono button aoe spam stackers. I would really prefer the creation of mass controls to oblige zergs to spread, than encouraging more aoe stacks.
Buddy, what is a "aoe macro spammer warband"?????
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Efficient✭✭✭You dont need a macro to spam steel tornado first of all.
100% agree... I even banned it from my wbAnd pugz dont make out very well from AOE caps. Pug groups are often not as organized by the nature of being pug groups, they are spread out and not as tight as ball groups. Ball groups make the best use of AOE caps because they are always together. Pug groups wont beat them as is now unless theyre throwing enough stuff to break them. In the case of AOE caps, they will need to throw a lot less in a smaller window than they need to now to break it.
pugs are not the main lag pb atm...
Organized aoe macro spammer warbands are.
Remove aoe caps would encourage that kind of groups... brainless mono button aoe spam stackers. I would really prefer the creation of mass controls to oblige zergs to spread, than encouraging more aoe stacks.
Buddy, what is a "aoe macro spammer warband"?????
He has to be trolling at this point.0 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Uncapped negate used to work wonders here. Removing AOE wouldnt be good. What do you do in a 2v10? This is essentially how theyve changed dynamic ult to static ult. Buffed numbers.
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prootch✭✭✭@Xeven
Fully agree as far as damage is concerned.
Uncapped silence is certainly a solution.You've got to stop with the tinfoil hat man, warband macro spammers haha
(faut arreter de fumer la moquette, y'en a pas tant que ça des utilisateurs de macro, et surtout c'est pas aussi grave que ça en a l'air)
et tu sais pas le dire en anglais ?
Stick that tinfoil funnel up where you like it the most, and just get some proper selling points
my pleasure milady
(and if your feel hurt by this remark on macro players, this is not the place to cry about it)
The pb is definitely not the macro, it's the aoe stack lag... when people don't have anymore decisive argument, it usually goes exactly where you are going now...
...and yeah it was trolling
Edited by prootch on October 26, 2015 5:14PM0 -
Legedric✭✭✭✭✭Nevermind...Edited by Legedric on October 26, 2015 7:52PM◄ Legedric the Flamedancer ► - Redguard Dragon Knight
◄ Legedric the Stormdancer ► - Altmer Sorcerer
◄ Legedric the Sundancer ► - Altmer Templar
EU | DRUCKWELLE - Retter des Kaiserreiches0 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Xeven
Fully agree as far as damage is concerned.
Uncapped silence is certainly a solution.You've got to stop with the tinfoil hat man, warband macro spammers haha
(faut arreter de fumer la moquette, y'en a pas tant que ça des utilisateurs de macro, et surtout c'est pas aussi grave que ça en a l'air)
et tu sais pas le dire en anglais ?
Stick that tinfoil funnel up where you like it the most, and just get some proper selling points my pleasure milady
(and if your feel hurt by this remark on macro players, this is not the place to cry about it)
Said it in French because it seems like the majority of people who accuse others of using macros or cheating are french, and they are the most butthurt everytime, even for the silliest reasons.0 -
prootch✭✭✭You seem to be pretty butthurt most of the time yourself man especially when you get to argue, you are most of the time unable to avoid personnal attacks. This is a clear sign of weakness in argumentation. So I suggest you stick to the subject of cyrodiil performance and get yourself some real ideas on how to improve performance issues.
The main pb being aoe spam stackers who cause major lag, and would certainly not be discouraged by aoe damage decap (and we both know which kind of groups we are talking about).
Still macro users are a reality nonetheless, wether you are ready to admit it or not.
We both do agree this is not a majority, few groups are really involved.0 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You seem to be pretty butthurt most of the time yourself man especially when you get to argue, you are most of the time unable to avoid personnal attacks. This is a clear sign of weakness in argumentation. So I suggest you stick to the subject of cyrodiil performance and get yourself some real ideas on how to improve performance issues.
The main pb being aoe spam stackers who cause major lag, and would certainly not be discouraged by aoe damage decap (and we both know which kind of groups we are talking about).
Still macro users are a reality nonetheless, wether you are ready to admit it or not.
We both do agree this is not a majority, few groups are really involved.
I don't see where I have resorted to personnal attacks, I'm not the one telling people to stfu in zone chat or to stick stuff up their you know what
I have exposed my views on Cyro performance many times, whether it be removal of aoe cap so that ball groups kill each other faster resulting in shorter lasting lag, or adding objectives in Cyro to spread fights out.
There are even easy ways to spread fights out in keeps and make them more interesting, add flags on the towers, add flags on the second floor so that a single ball group will have to spread out if they want to take a keep, and apply more strategy to taking keeps than just rushing one flag then rushing the other and lagcapping it if there's too much defense.
Macro users are a reality, they are hardly a problem though. (I've seen what they can do, and I think balancing game mechanics is a bigger priority that should already alleviate the macro problem) . I think macro users are individuals, and that macro groups are a myth that people like to put the blame on when they die.
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prootch✭✭✭Well man really... play whatever you want with that tinfoil you introduced in the discussion in the first place
But still that's not the subject
I fully agree on the idea of introducing different objectives in cyro, for now we have:
- scroll buffs
- emp buff
- ressources buffs on keeps
We could imagine having villages, towers, ruins, bridges guild tags provinding the guild with raw material, ap bonuses, increased set drop rates in pvp rewards, guilds pvp bonus instead of faction ones... in the end anything that depacks fights with worthwhile objectives for small groups. Or even individual tactical objectives for solo hunters spread all over the map.
We could also have keeps buffs for the guild holding it.
Guilds keeps timers rewards in raw material or set drops.
Guilds hall of fame for holding keeps, ressources, villages, ect...
Guild award for scroll capture.
Guilds ap leaderboard.
To get back on macro: Macro users are far from a myth considering how many macro ready mouses and keyboards are available on the market. And naga claimed it's macro mouses to be the best seller on mmo market in the recent past. Then there is no reason why a macro spammers should disappear suddenly when he gets in a group. Not speaking about cheat programs (which are significantly less common, I'll agree on that). The dev stated recently that "excessive" server hits is what they aim for atm... excessive and automated macro casting can obvioulsy be related. But since you insist on getting back on personnal attacks to discuss this point, you really appear out of arguments... and still much butthurt from our previous exchanges in zone chat
Farewell with that man, no offense but it was a long time ago. Get over it.
Aoe lag spammers are a sad reality that people like me put the blame on when they lag, provided that the lag raises instant when we cross them in fights, whatever the size of our group. Of course that kind of group dies too... lagging like hell, dumb spamming aoe whether there is an ennemy to hit in area of effect... or not.Edited by prootch on October 27, 2015 11:28AM0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Uncapped negate used to work wonders here. Removing AOE wouldnt be good. What do you do in a 2v10? This is essentially how theyve changed dynamic ult to static ult. Buffed numbers.
Only problem was it seemed like whoever had more negates won the big battles. Maybe that's how it should be though. It did help smaller groups. Remove proxdet though.0 -
Efficient✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »
Uncapped negate used to work wonders here. Removing AOE wouldnt be good. What do you do in a 2v10? This is essentially how theyve changed dynamic ult to static ult. Buffed numbers.
Only problem was it seemed like whoever had more negates won the big battles. Maybe that's how it should be though. It did help smaller groups. Remove proxdet though.
It's more of that they cant just all stack together, otherwise ALL of them would be affected by the negate or other ults. It would encourage people to spread out and think differently about strategy rather than a brainless effort that exists today.
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Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darnathian wrote: »
Uncapped negate used to work wonders here. Removing AOE wouldnt be good. What do you do in a 2v10? This is essentially how theyve changed dynamic ult to static ult. Buffed numbers.
Only problem was it seemed like whoever had more negates won the big battles. Maybe that's how it should be though. It did help smaller groups. Remove proxdet though.
It's more of that they cant just all stack together, otherwise ALL of them would be affected by the negate or other ults. It would encourage people to spread out and think differently about strategy rather than a brainless effort that exists today.
I agree. I liked it better.0 -
Huckdabuck✭✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »
Uncapped negate used to work wonders here. Removing AOE wouldnt be good. What do you do in a 2v10? This is essentially how theyve changed dynamic ult to static ult. Buffed numbers.
Only problem was it seemed like whoever had more negates won the big battles. Maybe that's how it should be though. It did help smaller groups. Remove proxdet though.
It's more of that they cant just all stack together, otherwise ALL of them would be affected by the negate or other ults. It would encourage people to spread out and think differently about strategy rather than a brainless effort that exists today.
It boils back down to a very simple thing........SORCS will once again be the most important raid members! Stacking NEGATES will become the META once again and stacking will not change in the slightest. Oh you negated my negate....well here's another negate on top of your negate that negated my original negate and I've got 5 more negates waiting to offset your negates. @Teargrants we need to get that full raid of sorcs streaking and negating! MY NEGATE!Texashighelf - VR16 Sorcerer EP NA - FILTHY BARBARIAN
Texasimperial - VR16 Dragonknight EP NA - How do you like your DK?
Texas'Imperial - VR16 Dragonknight DC NA - How do you like your DK?
Texas-Imperial - VR16 Templar DC NA - Queue Clogging Lagsploitter
Texas Highelf - VR16 Sorcerer DC NA - Queue Clogging Lagsploitter
Texas Imperial - VR16 Nightblade DC NA - Queue Clogging LagsploitterJessica Folsom wrote:It's a very grey area.0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭One thing I noticed last night for the first time. I ported to a stronghold that and went out the front door. I received a random tick that was likely generated by someone suiciding and I noticed that a second or two before the tick and for the next 5-10 second after the tick my framerate dropped from 60 to 5-10...and then it was back to perfect right afterwards.
I wonder if their is something in the FTC alliance point parsing that is causing some of the framerate issues we're seeing? When zergballs are around D-ticks/O-ticks and normal AP gains are happening all over, I wonder if that was just a random coincidence or something meaningful?
I don't use FTC and my framerate is still s*** with a GTX980 and an I7-4790K. Everything plays smooth as silk except ESO.
Well I don't want to conflate multiple issues. There are several different source of FPS drop.
When you are fighting around zergs your ping skyrockets. Since your internet connection hasn't changed this is almost certainly caused by the game server being overloaded to the point that it has delayed ping responses to your game client. There is nothing *you* can do to improve performance in these situations. The only thing that can be done is to optimize the game code and perhaps to an extent change player behavior.
In my particular example however my ping was a solid ~115 MS the entire time my client started lagging and it happened to coincide with a D-tick. I have a 980GTXti myself and the game runs perfectly most of the time, I'm trying to identify potential sources of performance degradation that can be solved. I've heard a lot of players complaining about frame rate drops constantly and other issues that I *never* experience.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Still macro users are a reality nonetheless, wether you are ready to admit it or not.
We both do agree this is not a majority, few groups are really involved.
No serious PvPer in the game would agree with this. Ask any player out there of a Palantine Rank or higher if he thinks "Macro Users" are a problem or even exist in PvP and he will look at you as Incredulously as we do. There are bigger fish to fry than nonexistent ones.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube0 -
Etaniel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Still macro users are a reality nonetheless, wether you are ready to admit it or not.
We both do agree this is not a majority, few groups are really involved.
No serious PvPer in the game would agree with this. Ask any player out there of a Palantine Rank or higher if he thinks "Macro Users" are a problem or even exist in PvP and he will look at you as Incredulously as we do. There are bigger fish to fry than nonexistent ones.
Thank you. (Although I think Prootch is General rank so your argument doesn't work haha)0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Still macro users are a reality nonetheless, wether you are ready to admit it or not.
We both do agree this is not a majority, few groups are really involved.
No serious PvPer in the game would agree with this. Ask any player out there of a Palantine Rank or higher if he thinks "Macro Users" are a problem or even exist in PvP and he will look at you as Incredulously as we do. There are bigger fish to fry than nonexistent ones.
Thank you. (Although I think Prootch is General rank so your argument doesn't work haha)
What are they handing out Stars now in cereal boxes or what? How can you PvP to what 45? Million AP and think that Macroing is an issue. All I can say for certain is I do not Macro and I've never come across a player doing something in PvP that I couldn't do myself and I've beaten (and been killed by) most of the top players in the game. Every player I've asked about them (Many of these players had no problems admitting to using double mundus/overload exploits etc) has said using Macros in PvP is a joke. I've seen so many threads derailed over that baseless accusation that it's become a sore point with me.Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube1 -
Ara_Valleria✭✭✭✭✭ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »I think performance overall is better. I haven't seen a lot of the really bad lag at the last emp keep like before. It does seem to be more spread out though. What I mean is that my ping is fine during the off hours with medium/low pop (like before) but if I play around 8-11 pm EST then if BRK is on fire, my ping sitting at Arrius or even the morrowind gates is 30-90 ms more than usual (yellow mostly) so 160 to 220 ms range. And it stays there a lot. I've run some tests on my own connection and it seems ok.
I also have noticed a real difficulty in landing melee hits when ping is 140+ ms. I don't remember it being that hard before. It seems just the last few weeks that hitting with melee has gotten significantly harder. Anybody else see this?
Whoa.
I wish I had 30-160ms ping. My usual ping is 170+ and during peak hours its 300+
My internet needs to git gud.°‡° ÁDAMANT °‡°
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