Some things to make Cadwell's Silver & Gold more bearable.

MornaBaine · July 2015

So apparently this terrible excuse for "end game" isn't going away any time soon nor is it being replaced by anything that would be a viable alternative to the horror we all know as Cadwell's Silver and Gold. So here's a few ideas on making it....not so awful.

1. Allow players to choose which zone they unlock first as Silver. All my characters are DC. This means Silver for me is AD. No offense you snobby Altmers and insane, "Are you....eating a SALAD? DIE!!!" Bosmers but I REALLY hate that faction. I love Elswhyr and getting to learn about the khajiit but overall the idea of dragging yet another character through that zone makes me want to run amuck at ZoS headquarters with a rusty chainsaw. And the real agony is that because you HAVE TO DO ALL THEIR MAIN STORY QUESTS you can't just grind to get the heck out of there! In fact, grinding will not help you AT ALL. You can pop double XP potions and overlevel yourself all you want...you are not escaping from Cadwell's Silver one second earlier. Now, once you get to Gold there's nothing left to unlock so you can pretty much just do whatever you want there to level. You can even IGNORE their Main Story quests because not doing them will not adversely affect you at all. So you can grind or explore the fun side quests as this is just now a few more levelling zones. Please ZoS, for the love of all that is holy, let me chose EP as my Silver zone.

2. Remove the Main Story quests requirement for both factions. Just let us grind or do interesting side quests that maybe don't have us turning traitor to our own faction and level just as we did in our own faction for 1-50. Just don't MAKE us do those quests to get the heck out of there. This doesn't negate Cadwell's premise of having us "see the other side" at all, it still lets us see the war from the perspective of the other side without having to kiss Ayrenn's arse. Is that really so much to ask?

3. Just open up both factions at once. Scale all quests to level and be done with it.

Any or all of these things would make things sooooo much better.

JesterH · July 2015

Silver and gold isnt so bad. I like being able to see all sides of the war

Lord_Draevan · July 2015

JesterH wrote: »

Silver and gold isnt so bad. I like being able to see all sides of the war

Same, I just imagine myself as a spy sent by my alliance leader to learn how the enemy operates, à la Jon Snow being sent to spy on the Wildlings.

smokes · July 2015

JesterH wrote: »

Silver and gold isnt so bad. I like being able to see all sides of the war

you can roll alts to do that

however, i do agree you should be able to do it all on one character if you want to - currently everyone is forced to complete cadwells S+G in order to level to VR14. which then makes levelling alts incredibly tedious as you've already done all questing content ingame to get your first VR14 (unless you grind).

adding VR's to cadwells was the worst design decision ever, they should've patched them in later with no VR XP gains.

i'm starting to sound like a broken record... i think i need a break from the forums.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

I agree that there should be no restriction to which zone you can go. After finishing own alliance you should be allowed to freely travel both to silver and gold zones. But players should keep in mind that if they go to caldwell gold zone first (because they should be allowed to go there) they will get wrecked by VR10 mobs if they are freshly VR1

notimetocare · July 2015

It wont effect you unless you need skill points. Its not that Silver and gold are unbearable, its that they don't offer value for replay. I enjoyed them both already, twice. Id rather go grind but silver seems a blockade to that.

Vil · July 2015

Being forced to do this on all my characters is actually what's stopping me from levelling past 50 and constantly making me think about quitting ESO. I hear you OP

notimetocare · July 2015

Vil wrote: »

Being forced to do this on all my characters is actually what's stopping me from levelling past 50 and constantly making me think about quitting ESO. I hear you OP

Neither is truly mandatory, Silver is a bit mandatory just because grinding in Gold is more efficient.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

demendred · July 2015

I like this system. Gives me a greater appreciation for other factions.
Sure, I can roll an alt character, but I like working on my main at the same time.

Enodoc · July 2015

A suggestion I made back-along, which is designed so that you don't lose any of John Cleese's recorded dialogue, is that Gold is unlocked as soon as you step foot in the first Silver city.

Enodoc wrote: »

Cadwell
Assume you are a member of the Daggerfall Covenant for this section.
Cadwell's Silver will begin as it does now. following the end of the Main Quest. But:
As soon as you arrive in the starter city of Vulkhel Guard, the following text appears on-screen: New Task: Cadwell's Silver - Experience the Aldmeri Dominion.

Cadwell's Silver is then removed/hidden from the Journal. This is so that the quest is not there hanging over you if you don't want to do it. (Progress tracking in Cadwell's Almanac proceeds as normal.)

A projection of Cadwell invites you to visit the Aldmeri version of the Harborage to return to your own alliance. There's a projection of him in the Aldmeri Harborage as well, with the same dialogue he would have if you met him in the normal (Daggerfall) Harborage.

Activating the Light of Meridia in the Aldmeri Harborage returns you to the Daggerfall Harborage, where Cadwell is waiting... with a new quest for you.

Cadwell's Gold will begin as soon as you return to the Daggerfall Harborage after your initial trip to the Dominion lands. Cadwell's dialogue here ("Well, you've experienced two of the three alliances. Care to finish the set?[...]") does not need to be changed, as you have still technically experienced two alliances.
As before, as soon as you arrive in Davon's Watch, you get a New Task: Cadwell's Gold - Experience the Ebonheart Pact.

Cadwell's Gold is removed/hidden from the Journal to avoid clutter.

You now have access to both Cadwell areas without being required to complete one of them first, aside from visiting the first city and leaving again.

Returning to any version of the Harborage gives you access to the Light of Meridia. Activate it whenever you like to be given a choice of alliances to visit. eg, press E for Dominion, F for Pact or X for Covenant.

If either section of Cadwell's Almanac is completed, you see Task Completed: Cadwell's Silver/Gold - You have completed the Dominion/Pact section of Cadwell's Almanac. At this time, the relevant quest reappears in the Journal for you to turn in to Cadwell in the Daggerfall Harborage. Turn in works as it does now.

Averya_Teira · July 2015

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

JesterH wrote: »

Silver and gold isnt so bad. I like being able to see all sides of the war

Same, I just imagine myself as a spy sent by my alliance leader to learn how the enemy operates, à la Jon Snow being sent to spy on the Wildlings.

Except you actually help the other alliances instead of undermining them from within as a spy would do ... which makes no f-ing sense.

Pman85 · July 2015

lol @ thinking silver and gold are endgame. i stopped reading after that

Lord_Draevan · July 2015

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Lord_Draevan wrote: »

JesterH wrote: »

Silver and gold isnt so bad. I like being able to see all sides of the war

Same, I just imagine myself as a spy sent by my alliance leader to learn how the enemy operates, à la Jon Snow being sent to spy on the Wildlings.

Except you actually help the other alliances instead of undermining them from within as a spy would do ... which makes no f-ing sense.

A saboteur would specifically undermine, a spy could be there to just observe them.
Like with Jon Snow: "Ride with them, eat with them, fight with them, for as long as it takes. Earn their trust. You must not balk, whatever is asked of you."
As a DC, I have no problem killing fellow DC in Bleakrock/Bal Foyen/Stonefalls since Serien and his forces appear to have gone rogue. In AD lands there's only one quest to kill DC which I can ignore easily, since it's a minor side quest.

Of course I'd rather NOT have to do Silver and Gold altogether, but since I have to I find it easier to imagine the spy thing.

Enodoc · July 2015

Pman85 wrote: »

lol @ thinking silver and gold are endgame. i stopped reading after that

I don't see how technical accuracy is laughable. Silver and gold are technically endgame, so there's nothing wrong with saying so.

Pman85 · July 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Pman85 wrote: »

lol @ thinking silver and gold are endgame. i stopped reading after that

I don't see how technical accuracy is laughable. Silver and gold are technically endgame, so there's nothing wrong with saying so.

while my previous post may be on the troller side. Endgame cannot be established when there are levels left. Any game made before this day, endgame happens after the leveling stop. When your focus shifts from the number by your character to things like gear, collections, achivements then my friend, you have started the endgame.

also, i did read the post. some very valid points here.

BBSooner · July 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

So apparently this terrible excuse for "end game" isn't going away any time soon nor is it being replaced by anything that would be a viable alternative to the horror we all know as Cadwell's Silver and Gold. So here's a few ideas on making it....not so awful.

1. Allow players to choose which zone they unlock first as Silver. All my characters are DC. This means Silver for me is AD. No offense you snobby Altmers and insane, "Are you....eating a SALAD? DIE!!!" Bosmers but I REALLY hate that faction. I love Elswhyr and getting to learn about the khajiit but overall the idea of dragging yet another character through that zone makes me want to run amuck at ZoS headquarters with a rusty chainsaw. And the real agony is that because you HAVE TO DO ALL THEIR MAIN STORY QUESTS you can't just grind to get the heck out of there! In fact, grinding will not help you AT ALL. You can pop double XP potions and overlevel yourself all you want...you are not escaping from Cadwell's Silver one second earlier. Now, once you get to Gold there's nothing left to unlock so you can pretty much just do whatever you want there to level. You can even IGNORE their Main Story quests because not doing them will not adversely affect you at all. So you can grind or explore the fun side quests as this is just now a few more levelling zones. Please ZoS, for the love of all that is holy, let me chose EP as my Silver zone.

2. Remove the Main Story quests requirement for both factions. Just let us grind or do interesting side quests that maybe don't have us turning traitor to our own faction and level just as we did in our own faction for 1-50. Just don't MAKE us do those quests to get the heck out of there. This doesn't negate Cadwell's premise of having us "see the other side" at all, it still lets us see the war from the perspective of the other side without having to kiss Ayrenn's arse. Is that really so much to ask?

3. Just open up both factions at once. Scale all quests to level and be done with it.

Any or all of these things would make things sooooo much better.

Agreed on all accounts. Any of these changes would make Silver/Gold a more positive experience for me.

MornaBaine · July 2015

notimetocare wrote: »

It wont effect you unless you need skill points. Its not that Silver and gold are unbearable, its that they don't offer value for replay. I enjoyed them both already, twice. Id rather go grind but silver seems a blockade to that.

After giving a LOT of thought to why I hate Silver and Gold so much, this is exactly the same conclusion I came to as well. I mean I still think the premise they tacked on to this is lame beyond belief and a product of sheer laziness... but I know I could live with it if they had NOT implemented Silver the way they did. Do I want the levels, skyshards, etc? Yes. But I do NOT want to be forced to do all the AD main story quests! It IS a barrier and I face it with absolute dread and loathing...which is NOT how I want to feel about my hobby! LOL

Sausage · July 2015

Come on, CP was the very first real structure for endgame, now they just needs to build the endgame around it and they are set. Im sure the transformation is ready in 1 year and then they can focus on content. Its kind of mess now.

MornaBaine · July 2015

Sausage wrote: »

Come on, CP was the very first real structure for endgame, now they just needs to build the endgame around it and they are set. Im sure the transformation is ready in 1 year and then they can focus on content.

I don't want to put up with Silver the way it is for one more year. The changes I mention above are pretty minor and well within the realm of the do-able.

Enodoc · July 2015

Pman85 wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Pman85 wrote: »

lol @ thinking silver and gold are endgame. i stopped reading after that

I don't see how technical accuracy is laughable. Silver and gold are technically endgame, so there's nothing wrong with saying so.

while my previous post may be on the troller side. Endgame cannot be established when there are levels left. Any game made before this day, endgame happens after the leveling stop. When your focus shifts from the number by your character to things like gear, collections, achivements then my friend, you have started the endgame.

And that right there is the problem with Silver and Gold. They are technically endgame (as they come after the Level Cap at Level 50), advertised as endgame, but you have to level through them because 50 is a false summit. Levelling through endgame is a contradiction to what endgame is supposed to be (and why removal of vet ranks should address it).

Sausage · July 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Come on, CP was the very first real structure for endgame, now they just needs to build the endgame around it and they are set. Im sure the transformation is ready in 1 year and then they can focus on content.

I don't want to put up with Silver the way it is for one more year. The changes I mention above are pretty minor and well within the realm of the do-able.

I hear you.

Silver and Gold were added to the game because otherwise we all would have 3 alt by now, one for each faction.

Xendyn · July 2015

I like #3, make Silver and Gold parallel rather than linear. Kind of like how LOTRO did it. After Moria, you had several different options to level, making it a bit different every time. Should I go Lothlorian or Mirkwood? Dunland or Great River?

You know, Options.

Up the XP in both so you could choose to do Silver this time, next time Gold and they could easily add in another zone as well. Plenty of xp for everyone and enough so you could skip zones you hated (like Shadowfen for me), instead of having to grind or hunt under every rock and leaf for that last bit of xp.
I swear I've never seen a game so stingy with leveling options as this one and so stringent in how you get to endgame.

Down with the Questapo! Options for everyone! (and cheese)

notimetocare · July 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Come on, CP was the very first real structure for endgame, now they just needs to build the endgame around it and they are set. Im sure the transformation is ready in 1 year and then they can focus on content.

I don't want to put up with Silver the way it is for one more year. The changes I mention above are pretty minor and well within the realm of the do-able.

None of these options are actually minor.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

AlnilamE · July 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

3. Just open up both factions at once. Scale all quests to level and be done with it.

I'd say this one, but leave the level spread so that "Silver" is still lower level than "Gold". Though if we are moving to V16 and they are upping quest XP, they really need to rescale all the vet zones upward. I'm always overleveled when I do Silver/Gold because I do other stuff, not just questing.

Sithisvoid · July 2015

I would prefer an endless hoard mode for my alts. Just stuff me in a narrow hallway and let me AOE my way to Vr14

Moonshadow66 · July 2015

@MornaBaine I hate the AD just as much as you do, for the EXACT same reasons you mentioned in the OP!

As much as I like doing all quests in all alliances in general (for completition), I'm always glad when AD is finally over. I mean, I can enjoy f.e. Auridon, it's like a looong walk in a park, I also loved Reaper's March when I've seen it the first time, but the, sorry, damn 3 zones inbetween I can't stand.
All that exaggerated Bosmer stuff, protecting some tree that apparently is more important than their own families, caves and tree roots everywhere that you think you'll never get to see the daylight anymore, all that Silvenar and Green Lady stuff which I don't care for AT ALL, and last but not least, cliffs! Cliffs everywhere! I finallly figured out how to go through at least Grahtwood without bumping against a wall and searching for hours for a way out.
I do like Ayrenn very much, though, I think she's a good Queen that means well, is trying to be fair and also has a lovely personality, but I don't like pretty much all the other High Elves which all think they're better than everyone else. So in general: nah, I don't like AD.

A while ago I suggested the same, to open the Silver/Gold barriers after completing the own faction's questline/main quest. Theoretically, the only problem would be level/rank, but since these zones are not cross faction, I can imagine it'd be possible (still theoretically) to just join the realm of the other faction to be on par with the zone's level/rank.

PS: I forgot to mention the Khajiit: they are cool! Khajiit FTW! Some are so cute, soft and cuddly that it makes me want to pet their head (I guess Raz wouldn't approve, though.. maybe M'aiq?^^).

MornaBaine · July 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

3. Just open up both factions at once. Scale all quests to level and be done with it.

I'd say this one, but leave the level spread so that "Silver" is still lower level than "Gold". Though if we are moving to V16 and they are upping quest XP, they really need to rescale all the vet zones upward. I'm always overleveled when I do Silver/Gold because I do other stuff, not just questing.

I'd be okay with that so long as I didn't have to do the main quests in order to unlock Gold. Then at least I could blow crowns on XP scrolls and race through it.

MornaBaine · July 2015

notimetocare wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Come on, CP was the very first real structure for endgame, now they just needs to build the endgame around it and they are set. Im sure the transformation is ready in 1 year and then they can focus on content.

I don't want to put up with Silver the way it is for one more year. The changes I mention above are pretty minor and well within the realm of the do-able.

None of these options are actually minor. I want what you is smokin'.

When taken in context with the other things they have done, like adding the champion system and the justice system...and all the stuff they still intend to do... yeah it IS pretty minor. Would it take some actual work? Some, certainly. But it is well within the realm of the reasonable.

Slurg · July 2015

I sympathize - AD is by far my least favorite of the three. I think the simplest solution that would help the most people is just to have Silver and Gold alliance zones open up at the same time. No need to choose or scale - just give both quest lines at the same time and let people travel freely as they please throughout Tamriel.

jkemmery · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

I agree that there should be no restriction to which zone you can go. After finishing own alliance you should be allowed to freely travel both to silver and gold zones. But players should keep in mind that if they go to caldwell gold zone first (because they should be allowed to go there) they will get wrecked by VR10 mobs if they are freshly VR1

What I did on my main, an only Vet char is to rush through the Silver quests so I could go anywhere, it only took a couple of days, and since then have just been going around exploring all 10 areas doing quests that I find. It's worked for me.

Attorneyatlawl · July 2015

Vil wrote: »

Being forced to do this on all my characters is actually what's stopping me from levelling past 50 and constantly making me think about quitting ESO. I hear you OP

It's a bear of an annoyance, especially on alts. You have to do the main story quest, mandatory with no ifs, ands, or buts, with lengthy unskippable voiced over roleplay npc sequences that are constant. Then you must do every main zone story quest in a secondary faction to access the endgame pve areas that aren't instanced, hitting through more of the same ad nauseam.

Not everyone likes to quest. Not everyone hates to quest, but hates having to repeat the same things a dozen times over. As for unskippable cutscenes and nongameplay story segments... I was happy to leave those back in the 90's. Everyone enjoys different things. The thing I and many others dread when making a new character isn't the time it takes to level. It's the time you have to, and cannot avoid, spending doing reruns of those main quests and zone quests!