why are siege engines doing half damage (or worse) relative to 1.5 ???

Artighur · March 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege mitigation changes in 1.6 were aimed at abilities that can mitigate Siege Damage and also Battle leveling stats are being investigated for a future update, and we are still looking at the damage of weapons vs. players with those changes in mind.

I think it should be included in the Battle Leveling stats. For new players it would provide basic stats to not get crushed by other players and some kind of siege damage reduction (enough to not get one-shotted, but not enough to make them impervious to siege). IIRC Battle Leveling kind of overwrites your stats so more experienced players will not use it only for the siege damage reduction since it will hurt their damage output quite a bit.

Grim13 · March 2015

Xendyn wrote: »

I play the entire game, PVE And PVP, mostly light armor wearing to boot and even I feel the carebear, PC attitude has no place in PVPland.

Lower level toons have Blackwater to play in. Anyone else from VR1 to 10 or so learns pretty quickly (or should) to stay back and range targets from behind the higher level players or use seige to do the damage. If they're not smart enough to do that, it's on Them, not you.

Now you've actually taken one of those options Away by making seige so puny. Hand holding isn't going to help keep PVP alive.

As others have said, seige damage Should be huge. Boulders, Fireballs, Flaming Bolts, Nasty hunks of Disease-ridden meat should Hurt.

ZOS, you're over-thinking things and making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Imo, Zos are just making excuses for an oversight on their part. And a poorly thought out excuse at that.

mananull · March 2015

Artighur wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege mitigation changes in 1.6 were aimed at abilities that can mitigate Siege Damage and also Battle leveling stats are being investigated for a future update, and we are still looking at the damage of weapons vs. players with those changes in mind.

I think it should be included in the Battle Leveling stats. For new players it would provide basic stats to not get crushed by other players and some kind of siege damage reduction (enough to not get one-shotted, but not enough to make them impervious to siege). IIRC Battle Leveling kind of overwrites your stats so more experienced players will not use it only for the siege damage reduction since it will hurt their damage output quite a bit.

A battle level char already have 30k HP. More than many vr14. They are far away from being "oneshotted".

Btw here a comparison of siege weapon damage i made in another thread:

Before 1.6
Battle level health ~2000
Fire Ballista Damage ~400 per tick (with impact 600?)
Thats 20% of health per tick.
Against a vet14 with over 3k health it was atleast over 10% per tick. Was too low imo.

Now with 1.6
Battle level health and vet14 health are about the same ~30000
Fire Ballista Damage ~2200
7-8% health per tick and no impact damage. That is laughable, with a bit of healing you can stand in the firezone of three ballistas and nothing will happen.
Oil is not any better.

RedTalon · March 2015

Has a heavy armor vet player, I like the new siege damage and being able to stand there and take a few siege hits without breaking a sweat, while I go pee and come back to same health roughly just has walls are coming down.

Also not sure if this is a glitch but a few times today held block while taking siege hits and seemed to reduce it close to zero.

PF1901 · March 2015

Joined non vet at level 10 for the first time after 1.6: Up the damage, your pillow powered war machinery is pretty much useless.

FENGRUSH · March 2015

mananull wrote: »

Artighur wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege mitigation changes in 1.6 were aimed at abilities that can mitigate Siege Damage and also Battle leveling stats are being investigated for a future update, and we are still looking at the damage of weapons vs. players with those changes in mind.

I think it should be included in the Battle Leveling stats. For new players it would provide basic stats to not get crushed by other players and some kind of siege damage reduction (enough to not get one-shotted, but not enough to make them impervious to siege). IIRC Battle Leveling kind of overwrites your stats so more experienced players will not use it only for the siege damage reduction since it will hurt their damage output quite a bit.

A battle level char already have 30k HP. More than many vr14. They are far away from being "oneshotted".

Btw here a comparison of siege weapon damage i made in another thread:

Before 1.6
Battle level health ~2000
Fire Ballista Damage ~400 per tick (with impact 600?)
Thats 20% of health per tick.
Against a vet14 with over 3k health it was atleast over 10% per tick. Was too low imo.

Now with 1.6
Battle level health and vet14 health are about the same ~30000
Fire Ballista Damage ~2200
7-8% health per tick and no impact damage. That is laughable, with a bit of healing you can stand in the firezone of three ballistas and nothing will happen.
Oil is not any better.

Dont worry damage has been increased by 10% put those numbers away.

xylena · March 2015

playing EP on chillrend today, we had 4-5 oils dumping on the stairs along with several ballistas and oilcats aimed at the base of the stairs, preparing for the DC zerg rush... our siege killed maybe 3-5 of of their 30+ in a situation where the same exact scenario in 1.5 would've resulted in the DC zerg wiped on the stairs... until siege damage is restored to its 1.5 strength, outnumbered forces are screwed, and zerg lag will only get worse

synnerman · March 2015

Good job once again , zergs are a major problem and we are altering the AoE caps and giving you a zergbuster ability...great.
Now meatbags and siege are practically useless against them. Can you ever actually get something right when you patch this game??

Roechacca · March 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Light armor typically doesn't have the HP boosts that heavy/medium armor wearing players have which is why armor was mentioned there. Not all players optimize their gear/HP/STA/MAG for surviving in Cyrodiil and while new players entering the zone will have bonus stats to survive weaponry via Battle leveling, the direction to make Siege not over punishing to new players was desired. Siege mitigation changes in 1.6 were aimed at abilities that can mitigate Siege Damage and also Battle leveling stats are being investigated for a future update, and we are still looking at the damage of weapons vs. players with those changes in mind. We are aware that it's on the lighter side of the damage scale at the moment.

And here in lies the problem with pvp and level gaps . Old MMO's didn't even have a bolster system , you just had to understand if you're low level , go level and gear up before pvp . A lot of your pvp crowd comes from these games . Trying to balance a level 10 in white light armor with a VR14 in gold gear with 200 Champion points is going to short change somebody . This is why I had hoped the non vet campaigns would be bolstered differently with VR1 NPC's .

Observant · March 2015

Roechacca wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Light armor typically doesn't have the HP boosts that heavy/medium armor wearing players have which is why armor was mentioned there. Not all players optimize their gear/HP/STA/MAG for surviving in Cyrodiil and while new players entering the zone will have bonus stats to survive weaponry via Battle leveling, the direction to make Siege not over punishing to new players was desired. Siege mitigation changes in 1.6 were aimed at abilities that can mitigate Siege Damage and also Battle leveling stats are being investigated for a future update, and we are still looking at the damage of weapons vs. players with those changes in mind. We are aware that it's on the lighter side of the damage scale at the moment.

And here in lies the problem with pvp and level gaps . Old MMO's didn't even have a bolster system , you just had to understand if you're low level , go level and gear up before pvp . A lot of your pvp crowd comes from these games . Trying to balance a level 10 in white light armor with a VR14 in gold gear with 200 Champion points is going to short change somebody . This is why I had hoped the non vet campaigns would be bolstered differently with VR1 NPC's .

I think they're forgetting about Blackwater Blade...

danno8 · March 2015

Siege has the most glaring tell in the game, along with the longest time allowed to get out of the affected area. I just don't see why it shouldn't be punishing.

Most in Cyro have around 20-25k health, siege should hit for at least 5k on impact, and should pulse for 2-3k for fire based siege.

Assaulting forces always have superior siege placement options (outside compare to outer wall, and outer wall compared to inner wall), and this siege nerf just makes defenses for smaller forces nearly impossible. Superior numbers is the only way to defend currently.

sarttsarttsarttub17_ESO · March 2015

What you guys think you should be killed by a giant Stone Block Landing on you? which reminds me...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bFTw95pJp8

JDar · March 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

players who have not put a lot of points in health picks while wearing light/no armor..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMGMZsKXz94

Roechacca · March 2015

Observant wrote: »

Roechacca wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Light armor typically doesn't have the HP boosts that heavy/medium armor wearing players have which is why armor was mentioned there. Not all players optimize their gear/HP/STA/MAG for surviving in Cyrodiil and while new players entering the zone will have bonus stats to survive weaponry via Battle leveling, the direction to make Siege not over punishing to new players was desired. Siege mitigation changes in 1.6 were aimed at abilities that can mitigate Siege Damage and also Battle leveling stats are being investigated for a future update, and we are still looking at the damage of weapons vs. players with those changes in mind. We are aware that it's on the lighter side of the damage scale at the moment.

And here in lies the problem with pvp and level gaps . Old MMO's didn't even have a bolster system , you just had to understand if you're low level , go level and gear up before pvp . A lot of your pvp crowd comes from these games . Trying to balance a level 10 in white light armor with a VR14 in gold gear with 200 Champion points is going to short change somebody . This is why I had hoped the non vet campaigns would be bolstered differently with VR1 NPC's .

I think they're forgetting about Blackwater Blade...

They shouldn't . Otherwise what was the whole purpose ?

marfia · March 2015

As someone who started ESO in October and played quite a bit of DC NA Thornblade while a lowbie, I was very grateful to learn that I could help my alliance or my groups by using appropriate siege like meatbags, oil catapults, and so forth. Pouring oils or whacking a balled up zerg with a meatbag was one of the ways I could actually feel myself influencing the battle lines. Now I am using a fraction of these siege as I was just a few weeks ago.

I have friends who joined the game recently, and I'm not sure what to advise them other than to level up and try PVP again when they grow out of their power adolescence and can contribute more. Organized PVP, underdog keep defense, and zerg busting has a learning curve and the siege change makes grouping with unprepared players much less attractive.

Joy_Division · March 2015

I stopped wasting my AP on siege weapons and my time on using them.

I find it disappointing that there is a virtual consensus about the ineffectiveness on siege weapons from the people who actually play the game, a consensus that is ignored by ZoS because it is worried that some level 15 might get one shotted from a fire ballista.

OoooooooooK...how exactly are you going to save that level 15 when I snipe him or wrecking blow him?

Pchela · March 2015

Siege has always been my favorite part of keep defense. Nothing like seeing people melt via oil and a few catapults. Plus, siege was great to use when I was chomping on a cookie or sipping coffee while defending. That one-button click.

I did a few tests on some enemy players who volunteered time for me a few weeks back. Was delighted to see that my icetrebs now hit for an initial 2.6k (compared to pre 1.6 which was 500). Was sad to see how little meat hit for.

c0rp · March 2015

Defending keeps is pointless right now with siege being 100% laughable. I quit playing pvp until its fixed (excluding the game changing lag ofc).

Why do things that are SO OBVIOUSLY broken take FOREVER to fix.

ThyIronFist · March 2015

Yup I think I'm done as well, I will wait a couple of days more I suppose after TU is out, PvP is a joke, and I think I'm done. Not enjoying the game anymore.

Slowly but surely, with every patch ZOS released it was in favor of zergs and trains. Lets start:

AoE cap
Then flaming oils were removed as ground AoE and now require 6 meters of space in order to drop oil, because nerds complaining about MY IMMERSIONZ!!!11!!!1!
Then oil catapults got nerfed and their snare effect is purgable, to this very day I think this is one of the most *** nerfs ZOS has ever made.
And now with 1.6, siege weapons are absolutely useless, defending a keep against much larger numbers is pointless, flaming oil hitting for 3k, oil catapults hitting for 1.5k.

Meatbags are useless, since the Wall of Elements purge bug is fixed, every man and his dog is using purge now, and with the last patch, the meatbag catapult now applies Major Defile, which is 40% healing reduction (down from, what was it? 80-90% that the meatbag before 1.6 did?) And since it doesn't stack, it's pointless.

Zergimax Online Studios. Ruining your PvP experience since 2014.

xylena · March 2015

patch 2.0.1 siege is still effective as a wet noodle, keep battles are purely a measure of which side has more players

one player purging in even the most disorganized of zergs completely neutralizes siege versus infantry

Weberda · March 2015

xylena wrote: »

patch 2.0.1 siege is still effective as a wet noodle, keep battles are purely a measure of which side has more players

one player purging in even the most disorganized of zergs completely neutralizes siege versus infantry

Paul Sage says "don't bunch up". The players say "baloney to that, there's safety in numbers".

IMO the most hurtful thing to keep defense is the lack of effect from oil. Most players can stand in under it and heal right through it. If you're badly outnumbered in a keep on defense just get out, leave. The only effective thing you can do is not give AP to the other side for your inevitable death.

Agrippa_Invisus · March 2015

Weberda wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

patch 2.0.1 siege is still effective as a wet noodle, keep battles are purely a measure of which side has more players

one player purging in even the most disorganized of zergs completely neutralizes siege versus infantry

Paul Sage says "don't bunch up". The players say "baloney to that, there's safety in numbers".

IMO the most hurtful thing to keep defense is the lack of effect from oil. Most players can stand in under it and heal right through it. If you're badly outnumbered in a keep on defense just get out, leave. The only effective thing you can do is not give AP to the other side for your inevitable death.

I also had the "pleasure" of seeing this in action on Chillrend. Three oil dumps into a zerg milling about at the base of the steps of an inner keep (Ft Ash) and not a single player died -- healthbars didn't even really move much. We fought off a number of players at the top of the steps with melee and AE, but eventually got overwhelmed. Guards didn't help much either.

Siege needs to hit much, much harder. Non oil was already not that great before, but this is ridiculously bad. Player abilities can drop you in seconds, but you can dance in siege.

Weberda · March 2015

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Weberda wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

patch 2.0.1 siege is still effective as a wet noodle, keep battles are purely a measure of which side has more players

one player purging in even the most disorganized of zergs completely neutralizes siege versus infantry

Paul Sage says "don't bunch up". The players say "baloney to that, there's safety in numbers".

IMO the most hurtful thing to keep defense is the lack of effect from oil. Most players can stand in under it and heal right through it. If you're badly outnumbered in a keep on defense just get out, leave. The only effective thing you can do is not give AP to the other side for your inevitable death.

I also had the "pleasure" of seeing this in action on Chillrend. Three oil dumps into a zerg milling about at the base of the steps of an inner keep (Ft Ash) and not a single player died -- healthbars didn't even really move much. We fought off a number of players at the top of the steps with melee and AE, but eventually got overwhelmed. Guards didn't help much either.

Siege needs to hit much, much harder. Non oil was already not that great before, but this is ridiculously bad. Player abilities can drop you in seconds, but you can dance in siege.

It's incredibly frustrating. And we're not asking for the ability to one-shot players. Counter-siege and wall defenses should make assaulting a keep/for more than just knocking a wall down and running in to the flags.

FENGRUSH · March 2015

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Weberda wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

patch 2.0.1 siege is still effective as a wet noodle, keep battles are purely a measure of which side has more players

one player purging in even the most disorganized of zergs completely neutralizes siege versus infantry

Paul Sage says "don't bunch up". The players say "baloney to that, there's safety in numbers".

IMO the most hurtful thing to keep defense is the lack of effect from oil. Most players can stand in under it and heal right through it. If you're badly outnumbered in a keep on defense just get out, leave. The only effective thing you can do is not give AP to the other side for your inevitable death.

I also had the "pleasure" of seeing this in action on Chillrend. Three oil dumps into a zerg milling about at the base of the steps of an inner keep (Ft Ash) and not a single player died -- healthbars didn't even really move much. We fought off a number of players at the top of the steps with melee and AE, but eventually got overwhelmed. Guards didn't help much either.

Siege needs to hit much, much harder. Non oil was already not that great before, but this is ridiculously bad. Player abilities can drop you in seconds, but you can dance in siege.

It cant hit too hard - the new level 10 players might be 1 shot and we could have a *serious* problem in cyrodiil as a result.

frozywozy · March 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Weberda wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

patch 2.0.1 siege is still effective as a wet noodle, keep battles are purely a measure of which side has more players

one player purging in even the most disorganized of zergs completely neutralizes siege versus infantry

Paul Sage says "don't bunch up". The players say "baloney to that, there's safety in numbers".

IMO the most hurtful thing to keep defense is the lack of effect from oil. Most players can stand in under it and heal right through it. If you're badly outnumbered in a keep on defense just get out, leave. The only effective thing you can do is not give AP to the other side for your inevitable death.

I also had the "pleasure" of seeing this in action on Chillrend. Three oil dumps into a zerg milling about at the base of the steps of an inner keep (Ft Ash) and not a single player died -- healthbars didn't even really move much. We fought off a number of players at the top of the steps with melee and AE, but eventually got overwhelmed. Guards didn't help much either.

Siege needs to hit much, much harder. Non oil was already not that great before, but this is ridiculously bad. Player abilities can drop you in seconds, but you can dance in siege.

It cant hit too hard - the new level 10 players might be 1 shot and we could have a *serious* problem in cyrodiil as a result.

Then, they should make low level characters scale more or low level characters should go play on non vet campaigns.

We won't base the game mechanics to suit the need of lowbies, they aren't the ones who do work and keep PvP alive. Yes without them, no one would be here today but we should not modify the siege damage to accommodate them, since we obviously didn't change the aoe skill damage to lower their burden either.

FENGRUSH · March 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Weberda wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

patch 2.0.1 siege is still effective as a wet noodle, keep battles are purely a measure of which side has more players

one player purging in even the most disorganized of zergs completely neutralizes siege versus infantry

Paul Sage says "don't bunch up". The players say "baloney to that, there's safety in numbers".

IMO the most hurtful thing to keep defense is the lack of effect from oil. Most players can stand in under it and heal right through it. If you're badly outnumbered in a keep on defense just get out, leave. The only effective thing you can do is not give AP to the other side for your inevitable death.

I also had the "pleasure" of seeing this in action on Chillrend. Three oil dumps into a zerg milling about at the base of the steps of an inner keep (Ft Ash) and not a single player died -- healthbars didn't even really move much. We fought off a number of players at the top of the steps with melee and AE, but eventually got overwhelmed. Guards didn't help much either.

Siege needs to hit much, much harder. Non oil was already not that great before, but this is ridiculously bad. Player abilities can drop you in seconds, but you can dance in siege.

It cant hit too hard - the new level 10 players might be 1 shot and we could have a *serious* problem in cyrodiil as a result.

Then, they should make low level characters scale more or low level characters should go play on non vet campaigns.

We won't base the game mechanics to suit the need of lowbies, they aren't the ones who do work and keep PvP alive. Yes without them, no one would be here today but we should not modify the siege damage to accommodate them, since we obviously didn't change the aoe skill damage to lower their burden either.

Thats very inconsiderate of you and against the interests of PvP lead designer's vision.

Weberda · March 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Weberda wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

patch 2.0.1 siege is still effective as a wet noodle, keep battles are purely a measure of which side has more players

one player purging in even the most disorganized of zergs completely neutralizes siege versus infantry

Paul Sage says "don't bunch up". The players say "baloney to that, there's safety in numbers".

IMO the most hurtful thing to keep defense is the lack of effect from oil. Most players can stand in under it and heal right through it. If you're badly outnumbered in a keep on defense just get out, leave. The only effective thing you can do is not give AP to the other side for your inevitable death.

I also had the "pleasure" of seeing this in action on Chillrend. Three oil dumps into a zerg milling about at the base of the steps of an inner keep (Ft Ash) and not a single player died -- healthbars didn't even really move much. We fought off a number of players at the top of the steps with melee and AE, but eventually got overwhelmed. Guards didn't help much either.

Siege needs to hit much, much harder. Non oil was already not that great before, but this is ridiculously bad. Player abilities can drop you in seconds, but you can dance in siege.

It cant hit too hard - the new level 10 players might be 1 shot and we could have a *serious* problem in cyrodiil as a result.

Then, they should make low level characters scale more or low level characters should go play on non vet campaigns.

We won't base the game mechanics to suit the need of lowbies, they aren't the ones who do work and keep PvP alive. Yes without them, no one would be here today but we should not modify the siege damage to accommodate them, since we obviously didn't change the aoe skill damage to lower their burden either.

Thats very inconsiderate of you and against the interests of PvP lead designer's vision.

I'd like to see the PvP Lead Designer come out some night and help defend a keep against 20 or 30 Blues on Chill. I bet siege would get fixed the very next day (unless he rage-quits after getting stomped at the top of the stairs).

Observant · March 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Weberda wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

patch 2.0.1 siege is still effective as a wet noodle, keep battles are purely a measure of which side has more players

one player purging in even the most disorganized of zergs completely neutralizes siege versus infantry

Paul Sage says "don't bunch up". The players say "baloney to that, there's safety in numbers".

IMO the most hurtful thing to keep defense is the lack of effect from oil. Most players can stand in under it and heal right through it. If you're badly outnumbered in a keep on defense just get out, leave. The only effective thing you can do is not give AP to the other side for your inevitable death.

I also had the "pleasure" of seeing this in action on Chillrend. Three oil dumps into a zerg milling about at the base of the steps of an inner keep (Ft Ash) and not a single player died -- healthbars didn't even really move much. We fought off a number of players at the top of the steps with melee and AE, but eventually got overwhelmed. Guards didn't help much either.

Siege needs to hit much, much harder. Non oil was already not that great before, but this is ridiculously bad. Player abilities can drop you in seconds, but you can dance in siege.

It cant hit too hard - the new level 10 players might be 1 shot and we could have a *serious* problem in cyrodiil as a result.

Then, they should make low level characters scale more or low level characters should go play on non vet campaigns.

We won't base the game mechanics to suit the need of lowbies, they aren't the ones who do work and keep PvP alive. Yes without them, no one would be here today but we should not modify the siege damage to accommodate them, since we obviously didn't change the aoe skill damage to lower their burden either.

Thats very inconsiderate of you and against the interests of PvP lead designer's vision.

That's why they have their own server.
We had to learn the hard way, the unforgiving way; the way an MMORPG is supposed to be at end-game level.

Agrippa_Invisus · March 2015

Observant wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Weberda wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

patch 2.0.1 siege is still effective as a wet noodle, keep battles are purely a measure of which side has more players

one player purging in even the most disorganized of zergs completely neutralizes siege versus infantry

Paul Sage says "don't bunch up". The players say "baloney to that, there's safety in numbers".

IMO the most hurtful thing to keep defense is the lack of effect from oil. Most players can stand in under it and heal right through it. If you're badly outnumbered in a keep on defense just get out, leave. The only effective thing you can do is not give AP to the other side for your inevitable death.

I also had the "pleasure" of seeing this in action on Chillrend. Three oil dumps into a zerg milling about at the base of the steps of an inner keep (Ft Ash) and not a single player died -- healthbars didn't even really move much. We fought off a number of players at the top of the steps with melee and AE, but eventually got overwhelmed. Guards didn't help much either.

Siege needs to hit much, much harder. Non oil was already not that great before, but this is ridiculously bad. Player abilities can drop you in seconds, but you can dance in siege.

It cant hit too hard - the new level 10 players might be 1 shot and we could have a *serious* problem in cyrodiil as a result.

Then, they should make low level characters scale more or low level characters should go play on non vet campaigns.

We won't base the game mechanics to suit the need of lowbies, they aren't the ones who do work and keep PvP alive. Yes without them, no one would be here today but we should not modify the siege damage to accommodate them, since we obviously didn't change the aoe skill damage to lower their burden either.

Thats very inconsiderate of you and against the interests of PvP lead designer's vision.

That's why they have their own server.
We had to learn the hard way, the unforgiving way; the way an MMORPG is supposed to be at end-game level.

Methinks FENGRUSH's stylings are lost on some of you. You're responding waaaaaay too seriously.

Weberda · March 2015

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Observant wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Weberda wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

patch 2.0.1 siege is still effective as a wet noodle, keep battles are purely a measure of which side has more players

one player purging in even the most disorganized of zergs completely neutralizes siege versus infantry

Paul Sage says "don't bunch up". The players say "baloney to that, there's safety in numbers".

IMO the most hurtful thing to keep defense is the lack of effect from oil. Most players can stand in under it and heal right through it. If you're badly outnumbered in a keep on defense just get out, leave. The only effective thing you can do is not give AP to the other side for your inevitable death.

I also had the "pleasure" of seeing this in action on Chillrend. Three oil dumps into a zerg milling about at the base of the steps of an inner keep (Ft Ash) and not a single player died -- healthbars didn't even really move much. We fought off a number of players at the top of the steps with melee and AE, but eventually got overwhelmed. Guards didn't help much either.

Siege needs to hit much, much harder. Non oil was already not that great before, but this is ridiculously bad. Player abilities can drop you in seconds, but you can dance in siege.

It cant hit too hard - the new level 10 players might be 1 shot and we could have a *serious* problem in cyrodiil as a result.

Then, they should make low level characters scale more or low level characters should go play on non vet campaigns.

We won't base the game mechanics to suit the need of lowbies, they aren't the ones who do work and keep PvP alive. Yes without them, no one would be here today but we should not modify the siege damage to accommodate them, since we obviously didn't change the aoe skill damage to lower their burden either.

Thats very inconsiderate of you and against the interests of PvP lead designer's vision.

That's why they have their own server.
We had to learn the hard way, the unforgiving way; the way an MMORPG is supposed to be at end-game level.

Methinks FENGRUSH's stylings are lost on some of you. You're responding waaaaaay too seriously.

He's quite good at sarcasm. The problem is that many of us have trouble finding humor in this along with all the other problems that PvP has had for so long.