why are siege engines doing half damage (or worse) relative to 1.5 ???

xylena

oil pots did 600 dmg per tick, now instead of 6k per tick they're doing 3k

meatbags did 200 dmg per tick, now instead of 2k per tick they're doing 1k

ice trebs did 500 dmg aoe on impact, now instead of 5k they're doing 2.5k

oil catapults did 600 dmg aoe on impact, now instead of 6k they're doing 1.5k LOLOL

small groups have virtually no chance of defending keeps versus full raids now

Mantic0r3

the dmg got nerfed because you cant mitigate it anymore, so how much less (or even more) dmg you get compared to 1.5 depends on how much mitigation you have

Teargrants

I used to have 3.1k health, I now have 15k health, seems legit. Hue.

c0rp

Yeah, siege is worthless right now. Have not seen a green even make a comment about it yet..

Tripwyr

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

the dmg got nerfed because you cant mitigate it anymore, so how much less (or even more) dmg you get compared to 1.5 depends on how much mitigation you have

Siege could not be mitigated in 1.5, nothing has changed on that front.

Kevinmon

Because ZOS didn't up siege damage even though they multiplied everyone's health by 10, further proving that PvP is a complete afterthought for them.

DeLindsay

Are you all playing the same game the rest of us are? Siege does MUCH more damage now than it did in 1.5.8 in regards to zergblobs at least. Sure individual ticks aren't fantastic but Siege is actually a problem for zergs now when it really didn't used to be. Before 1.6 you could just stand in Siege most times, as long as your group had Heals, and you were fine. Now you don't even want to be standing in the circle when the siege bomb lands. Unless ZoS ninja nerfed them from even 2 nights ago when I was in there.

Lava_Croft

DeLindsay wrote: »

Are you all playing the same game the rest of us are? Siege does MUCH more damage now than it did in 1.5.8 in regards to zergblobs at least. Sure individual ticks aren't fantastic but Siege is actually a problem for zergs now when it really didn't used to be. Before 1.6 you could just stand in Siege most times, as long as your group had Heals, and you were fine. Now you don't even want to be standing in the circle when the siege bomb lands. Unless ZoS ninja nerfed them from even 2 nights ago when I was in there.

^^ This.

If there's one thing I noticed during my time in the Cyrodiil lagfest, it's that a zerg being bombarded by the right siege equipment either disperses or dies. It seems to be much more effective.

DeLindsay

xylena wrote: »

oil pots did 600 dmg per tick, now instead of 6k per tick they're doing 3k

meatbags did 200 dmg per tick, now instead of 2k per tick they're doing 1k

ice trebs did 500 dmg aoe on impact, now instead of 5k they're doing 2.5k

oil catapults did 600 dmg aoe on impact, now instead of 6k they're doing 1.5k LOLOL

small groups have virtually no chance of defending keeps versus full raids now

Ok this is yet another example of Players not understanding what scaled in 1.6 and how. Damage done did NOT scale by x10 as you are trying to imply that it did. If anything damage scaled by x6-7 or so. Also unless you're rounding down to make it seem worse, Meatbag ticks for over 1300 for me. Scatter goes for between 1100-1500, not sure why the value changes as I don't normally use Scatter. I haven't yet had the opportunity to use Oil in 1.6 so I can't personally say there, but I can 100% guarantee Siege is more deadly in 1.6 than it was in 1.5.8. Another one, Fire Catapult is doing nearly 8K if it hits a Vampire.

Roechacca

We all know pvp is a after thought here . The only feedback since 1.6 so far from the Devs is "We'll look into it" . Take that for what it's worth .

RinaldoGandolphi

Siege is laughable in 1.6 a 1300 tick on a meat at is nothing even with someone only having 17k hp.

Siege is so weak now it makes defense nearly impossible you can't kill anyone with it. Folks can face roll right through it. I can sit in a chair under an oil pot and it does laughable damage its a complete waste. It don't matter anyways, folks will stand right in field artilery and survive yet get 1 shotted by a bow, that's game balance for you.

xylena

Siege is so weak now it makes defense nearly impossible you can't kill anyone with it. Folks can face roll right through it. I can sit in a chair under an oil pot and it does laughable damage its a complete waste. It don't matter anyways, folks will stand right in field artilery and survive yet get 1 shotted by a bow, that's game balance for you.

yep, my personal HoTs from rally and vigor easily offset even multiple siege engines firing at me, and the changes to healing debuff mechanics have rendered meatwads impotent against dedicated healers... sure siege occasionally kills someone, but why bother spending AP and finding flat ground when sniping and throwing meteors is considerably more effective right now?

weak siege punishes small groups and rewards zergblobs, and that sounds really boring

ZOS_BrianWheeler

Siege damage was increased but not to the extent that it one shots non-veteran players or players who have not put a lot of points in health picks while wearing light/no armor.

We are aware of the damage feeling lesser than it did prior to 1.6. and monitoring siege vs. players in all armor types along with the champion resists/bonuses.

frozywozy

Tripwyr wrote: »

Mantic0r3 wrote: »

the dmg got nerfed because you cant mitigate it anymore, so how much less (or even more) dmg you get compared to 1.5 depends on how much mitigation you have

Siege could not be mitigated in 1.5, nothing has changed on that front.

Siege damage was mitigated by armor in 1.5. It isn't anymore in 1.6.

The only thing that changed is the fact that you can't have more than one healing debuff on yourself. So no more spamming of purge 5-6times in a row before you can finally land a heal successfuly on yourself. You purge once and you're clear.

Other than that, there is also the buff to vampires (weakness to fire is now 40%) so it helps organized vamps groups to resist the burst of fire damage combination from fire balistas + impulse + standard. I really don't think that buff was necessary.

Roechacca

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege damage was increased but not to the extent that it one shots non-veteran players or players who have not put a lot of points in health picks while wearing light/no armor.

We are aware of the damage feeling lesser than it did prior to 1.6. and monitoring siege vs. players in all armor types along with the champion resists/bonuses.

You can't 20 shot someone with siege now let alone 1 shot .

FireCowCommando

Lets assume siege damage was increased by 10%, and it ignores armor as stated.

This doesnt mean that it was scaled to the new player health pools? Unless im missing something here, Brian Wheeler saying its working as intended must mean this is the only case?

xylena

The only thing that changed is the fact that you can't have more than one healing debuff on yourself. So no more spamming of purge 5-6times in a row before you can finally land a heal successfuly on yourself. You purge once and you're clear.

RIP meatbags as an effective anti-zergball weapon

RIP oil catapults that couldn't be purged, was so nice to be able to stop a zergball in its tracks

RIP ground oil, best small group versus zergball defense weapon ever

DeLindsay

roechacca wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege damage was increased but not to the extent that it one shots non-veteran players or players who have not put a lot of points in health picks while wearing light/no armor.

We are aware of the damage feeling lesser than it did prior to 1.6. and monitoring siege vs. players in all armor types along with the champion resists/bonuses.

You can't 20 shot someone with siege now let alone 1 shot .

Guess you haven't bothered to test out Fire Ballista on Players yet, they do nearly as much damage as Meteor does, to Vamps at least and we all know Cyro is like 60-75% Vampires.

FireCowCommando

[/quote]Guess you haven't bothered to test out Fire Ballista on Players yet, they do nearly as much damage as Meteor does, to Vamps at least and we all know Cyro is like 60-75% Vampires.

[/quote]

This is the complete opposite of my experience, it took maybe 9 fire ballista shots in a row between me and my guild mate to get a non healing player to stop using their ballista. He just walked away until he got healed a few seconds later.

Roechacca

DeLindsay wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege damage was increased but not to the extent that it one shots non-veteran players or players who have not put a lot of points in health picks while wearing light/no armor.

We are aware of the damage feeling lesser than it did prior to 1.6. and monitoring siege vs. players in all armor types along with the champion resists/bonuses.

You can't 20 shot someone with siege now let alone 1 shot .

Guess you haven't bothered to test out Fire Ballista on Players yet, they do nearly as much damage as Meteor does, to Vamps at least and we all know Cyro is like 60-75% Vampires.

I'm a fire treb nut . Use Em every night normally . A fire treb won't glitch and give fall damage to a player like Meteor will currently . The two cant even be compared right now .

DHale

I had a meatbag on a breach the other night at Nikel. Blue streamed in and even though I hit over 8 or them according combat log statistics it did not do as much damage as pre 1.6. I do not know (or care) whether its mitigation, light, heavy, med armor, debuffs or any other variable. It is not doing the damage output of a simple spell in context to the damage before 1.6 update. Not surprising, they swarmed me and I died. Next time I will throw caltrops down and spam wall of elements and volcanic rune. I will live a bit longer and do more damage. I can now directly hit players on siege and the siege breaks before they do. I can also siege while getting hit with counter siege without constant heals from others no siege shield required and I could not do that before. I can alt off the siege put a HOT on then go back to sieging easily now. I would be interested to hear if anyone else feels differently.

KarshtheWraith

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege damage was increased but not to the extent that it one shots non-veteran players or players who have not put a lot of points in health picks while wearing light/no armor.

We are aware of the damage feeling lesser than it did prior to 1.6. and monitoring siege vs. players in all armor types along with the champion resists/bonuses.

Defending keeps has become incredibly difficult/next to impossible if heavily outnumbered. Pouring oil is essentially useless now to where I don't even bother setting them up anymore. I'm personally able to take 4 oil pours and heal through it with just vigor. Oil was the best thing that could stop a massive zerg in keep takes, fix it please.

frozywozy

DHale wrote: »

I had a meatbag on a breach the other night at Nikel. Blue streamed in and even though I hit over 8 or them according combat log statistics it did not do as much damage as pre 1.6. I do not know (or care) whether its mitigation, light, heavy, med armor, debuffs or any other variable. It is not doing the damage output of a simple spell in context to the damage before 1.6 update. Not surprising, they swarmed me and I died. Next time I will throw caltrops down and spam wall of elements and volcanic rune. I will live a bit longer and do more damage. I can now directly hit players on siege and the siege breaks before they do. I can also siege while getting hit with counter siege without constant heals from others no siege shield required and I could not do that before. I can alt off the siege put a HOT on then go back to sieging easily now. I would be interested to hear if anyone else feels differently.

I understand your concern but just keep in mind that a meatbag isn't designed to deal damage. you gotta combine it with your own abilities or a fire balista to make it really productive.

Roechacca

DHale wrote: »

I had a meatbag on a breach the other night at Nikel. Blue streamed in and even though I hit over 8 or them according combat log statistics it did not do as much damage as pre 1.6. I do not know (or care) whether its mitigation, light, heavy, med armor, debuffs or any other variable. It is not doing the damage output of a simple spell in context to the damage before 1.6 update. Not surprising, they swarmed me and I died. Next time I will throw caltrops down and spam wall of elements and volcanic rune. I will live a bit longer and do more damage. I can now directly hit players on siege and the siege breaks before they do. I can also siege while getting hit with counter siege without constant heals from others no siege shield required and I could not do that before. I can alt off the siege put a HOT on then go back to sieging easily now. I would be interested to hear if anyone else feels differently.

No that's pretty much how all trebs have been working . I've tested lightning , fire , oil , scattershot and meat bag . Damage is too minuscule to justify their defensive use in my opinion . Might as well be throwing harsh language .

Darlgon

I was on a ballista, with a ballista from the defender hitting me. My health regen kept me topped off at 100 without heals. Sit normal.. Carry on.

On the other hand, my ballista now hits walls for 2032 instead of the 2000 it was before 1.6. Interesting.You SURE you adjusted the output?

Xsorus

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege damage was increased but not to the extent that it one shots non-veteran players or players who have not put a lot of points in health picks while wearing light/no armor.

We are aware of the damage feeling lesser than it did prior to 1.6. and monitoring siege vs. players in all armor types along with the champion resists/bonuses.

Shouldn't those players ya know...have some kind of disadvantage though? Right now they shield stack so they're basically immune to Siege damage anyway....

DeLindsay

roechacca wrote: »

I'm a fire treb nut . Use Em every night normally . A fire treb won't glitch and give fall damage to a player like Meteor will currently . The two cant even be compared right now .

Meteor hits for ~10-11K (Ice Comet to be exact) and Fire Ballista hits Vampires for 7-8K, I'd call that a pretty good comparison. These values are based on me as a Vampire being hit for those values (I run 5pc Construct) and the damage I can do with either to other Players.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

I think someone miss wrote a modifier they needed to be DOUBLED not HALVED.... typical ZoS buggery.

WebBull

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Siege damage was increased but not to the extent that it one shots non-veteran players or players who have not put a lot of points in health picks while wearing light/no armor.

We are aware of the damage feeling lesser than it did prior to 1.6. and monitoring siege vs. players in all armor types along with the champion resists/bonuses.

It doesn't feel lesser. It is lesser as pointed out in this thread a few times.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO

It's not only less but its laughable. If someone is dumb enough to stand in a huge red projected circle they deserve to be one shot. Especially because they are low level or have no armor on.

Roechacca

DeLindsay wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

I'm a fire treb nut . Use Em every night normally . A fire treb won't glitch and give fall damage to a player like Meteor will currently . The two cant even be compared right now .

Meteor hits for ~10-11K (Ice Comet to be exact) and Fire Ballista hits Vampires for 7-8K, I'd call that a pretty good comparison. These values are based on me as a Vampire being hit for those values (I run 5pc Construct) and the damage I can do with either to other Players.

You forgot to add the 50K fall damage for meteor .