Official Feedback Thread for Grouping Tool Updates

ZOS_GinaBruno

This is the official feedback thread for the Grouping Tool Updates. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes:

• Did you find the tool was intuitive and easy to understand since we improved the UI?
• Were you satisfied with the incentive you received for queuing and completing a dungeon?
• Did you use the Grouping Tool to group with players from other alliances?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

lestaudenmaierub17_ESO

I think this is a good start towards making the LFG tool usable in game. Two suggestions:

Add secondary bonuses for class in need. Even with a great LFG tool, if no one queues up as a tank or healer, you end up with a hundred DPS waiting for one healer or tank. Maybe increase the bonus XP by 25% if you queue up with whatever class is currently under-represented in the queue.

Of course, this has the adverse side effect of players who will then select tank just to get into the dungeon even though they are spec'd for DPS or heals. So this leads me to my second recommendation: An accommodation system:

Basically, at the end of each dungeon run players can chose to give another player an accommodation. Its like a reward for a job well done. Its entirely optional, but can help promote fair game play, politeness, and helpfulness while grouping. Accommodations could then be turned into the Undaunted NPC's for costumes, titles, pets, gear, etc.

Some of you will recognize where I got these ideas from...they're part of the FFXIV dungeon system and in that particular MMO, dungeon running is huuugggeee (channeling Donald Trump).

Anyways, great start on the LFG tool and I hope to see some more improvements in the future as this system is fleshed out.

Enodoc

I'm interested to see what the XP rewards are like. If anyone's done a run with the group finder, please post the XP reward you got! I'd like to try and see how it fits into the standard XP setup.

Ashtaris

Tried the new random Vet dungeon grouping last night. After about 10 minutes, I was finally put into a group for COH. About 5 minutes into the dungeon, we lost one of our group members. So we cleared some of the mobs waiting for him to come back, but he never did. After about 20 minutes into the dungeon, my client crashed. When I loaded up my same character again, instead of arriving back to COH, I ended up back in Craglorn, the place I was before the queue transfer. Not sure if I was kicked from the group so I couldn't get back, or the game put me back there itself. Maybe that's why the other guy never came back, he couldn't get there either.

spoqster

Good Stuff! But please give us the option to disable auto-porting. I think it's a great way to get groups into the dungeon quickly, but in reality most people need to finish something before they go in, like finish up at the bank or hand in a quest, finish repairs, etc. If you get ported into the dungeon without emptying your inventory or finishing repairs, you have to port back out and in again. That will take more time in total than simply coming a minute later.

An easy fix would be to change the fucntionality associated with the 'x' button from 'hide' to 'cancel auto port'.

Edit: With the addition of being able to search for multiple dungeons, we finally get the chance to finish achievements and donfarming runs on dungeons that are not the current daily. This is fantastic! However in this case it is highly likely that the group finder will be on for hours until you finally get a group together. In this case it is even more annoying to be ported within 60s. If you're waiting for 5 hours, a few more minutes of waiting until everyone is there won't matter.

MissBizz

I only judged the tool by the cover essentially as my preference was continuing questing.

I found the new UI to be very intuitive and easier to understand than the original grouping tool.

Inviting a friend that is from a different alliance was simple as.. well... inviting anyone in my alliance.

Having the ability to select multiple dungeons is amazing. As well, it is now extremely clear whether you are signing up for a vet dungeon or not.

UrQuan

Without the population on PTS that there is on the live servers it's not really possible to properly test how well the tool is forming groups (and I haven't had enough time to try to get a group using it), but looking at the new UI and options I love everything I see. Judging it on face value these changes are simply great.

therasia2_ESO

I have cued up for grouping, but not enough people on when I was playing perhaps. I'll be trying it again and see if I get hooked up. Looking at the changes presented, I really like it much better than the original. The fact that you can choose a specific dungeon or a roll of the dice is great. Good job guys!

NewBlacksmurf

Enodoc wrote: »

I'm interested to see what the XP rewards are like. If anyone's done a run with the group finder, please post the XP reward you got! I'd like to try and see how it fits into the standard XP setup.

It's 101k exp for completion...I don't think that's what you're asking tho..???

Monk_Slayer

Please don't force us to port!! At best, change it to cancel, instead of hiding, at a minimum, extend it a few minutes.

pandoraderomanus

Now on live servers there's a problem with teleporting, sometimes the system 'thinks' that the group is full (when there are only 3 group members) and teleports every member into the chosen dungeon (and you can't cancel it). So the groupleader have to leave the dungeon sometimes and try to find someone in zone chat if the system can't find the last member. It is a waste of time (loading screens..). It happens to me pretty frequently. I'm not sure that I can test it myself whether it happens on PTS or not, so maybe someone can write about their grouping experience on PTS concerning this problem.

Enodoc

spoqster wrote: »

Good Stuff! But please give us the option to disable auto-porting. I think it's a great way to get groups into the dungeon quickly, but in reality most people need to finish something before they go in, like finish up at the bank or hand in a quest, finish repairs, etc. If you get ported into the dungeon without emptying your inventory or finishing repairs, you have to port back out and in again. That will take more time in total than simply coming a minute later.

An easy fix would be to change the fucntionality associated with the 'x' button from 'hide' to 'cancel auto port'.

Or if not that, just increase the timer by two minutes; that should be enough time to finish repairs and inventory management, I think?

Enodoc

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

I'm interested to see what the XP rewards are like. If anyone's done a run with the group finder, please post the XP reward you got! I'd like to try and see how it fits into the standard XP setup.

It's 101k exp for completion...I don't think that's what you're asking tho..???

@NewBlacksmurf According to the patch notes, "Queuing and completing a random dungeon now awards bonus experience and items. Your first completion of the day will grant a fairly sizeable chunk of experience. You also receive a blue item from the two new sets mentioned in the item set section above. Subsequent runs give slightly less experience, and a green item from the same sets as previously."
I'm looking for the two different values of bonus XP (the "fairly sizeable chunk" and "slightly less") you are rewarded with by using the grouping tool.

NewBlacksmurf

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

I'm interested to see what the XP rewards are like. If anyone's done a run with the group finder, please post the XP reward you got! I'd like to try and see how it fits into the standard XP setup.

It's 101k exp for completion...I don't think that's what you're asking tho..???

@NewBlacksmurf According to the patch notes, "Queuing and completing a random dungeon now awards bonus experience and items. Your first completion of the day will grant a fairly sizeable chunk of experience. You also receive a blue item from the two new sets mentioned in the item set section above. Subsequent runs give slightly less experience, and a green item from the same sets as previously."
I'm looking for the two different values of bonus XP (the "fairly sizeable chunk" and "slightly less") you are rewarded with by using the grouping tool.

The character I was on was set to recieve 101,000 exp for the first dungeon.
I'll have to look and see the difference by character levels

spoqster

Another thing: From the wording in the group finder it is unclear if the xp bonus is awarded if you use the tool for any dungeon run, or only if you choose the option to run a random dungeon.

Enodoc

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

I'm interested to see what the XP rewards are like. If anyone's done a run with the group finder, please post the XP reward you got! I'd like to try and see how it fits into the standard XP setup.

It's 101k exp for completion...I don't think that's what you're asking tho..???

@NewBlacksmurf According to the patch notes, "Queuing and completing a random dungeon now awards bonus experience and items. Your first completion of the day will grant a fairly sizeable chunk of experience. You also receive a blue item from the two new sets mentioned in the item set section above. Subsequent runs give slightly less experience, and a green item from the same sets as previously."
I'm looking for the two different values of bonus XP (the "fairly sizeable chunk" and "slightly less") you are rewarded with by using the grouping tool.

The character I was on was set to recieve 101,000 exp for the first dungeon.
I'll have to look and see the difference by character levels

That's.... quite a lot of XP. That's nearly 10 times the amount of XP you get from the top tier quests. I was expecting a value closer to 16,841.

NewBlacksmurf

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

I'm interested to see what the XP rewards are like. If anyone's done a run with the group finder, please post the XP reward you got! I'd like to try and see how it fits into the standard XP setup.

It's 101k exp for completion...I don't think that's what you're asking tho..???

@NewBlacksmurf According to the patch notes, "Queuing and completing a random dungeon now awards bonus experience and items. Your first completion of the day will grant a fairly sizeable chunk of experience. You also receive a blue item from the two new sets mentioned in the item set section above. Subsequent runs give slightly less experience, and a green item from the same sets as previously."
I'm looking for the two different values of bonus XP (the "fairly sizeable chunk" and "slightly less") you are rewarded with by using the grouping tool.

The character I was on was set to recieve 101,000 exp for the first dungeon.
I'll have to look and see the difference by character levels

That's.... quite a lot of XP. That's nearly 10 times the amount of XP you get from the top tier quests. I was expecting a value closer to 16,841.

Well, think of it this way....in a few months level 50 will be the max so exp should be based on gaining CPs where lets say someone close to 501, feels a benefit from doing at least one daily dungeon.

I'm sure it scales based on character levels too and you get a cutesy blue item.

Edit: that is 101,047 or something like that for a VR1 - VR16. I don't have a char at 10 - 49 so I rolled one....at level 9 but got some work to do.

MissBizz

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

I'm interested to see what the XP rewards are like. If anyone's done a run with the group finder, please post the XP reward you got! I'd like to try and see how it fits into the standard XP setup.

It's 101k exp for completion...I don't think that's what you're asking tho..???

@NewBlacksmurf According to the patch notes, "Queuing and completing a random dungeon now awards bonus experience and items. Your first completion of the day will grant a fairly sizeable chunk of experience. You also receive a blue item from the two new sets mentioned in the item set section above. Subsequent runs give slightly less experience, and a green item from the same sets as previously."
I'm looking for the two different values of bonus XP (the "fairly sizeable chunk" and "slightly less") you are rewarded with by using the grouping tool.

The character I was on was set to recieve 101,000 exp for the first dungeon.
I'll have to look and see the difference by character levels

That's.... quite a lot of XP. That's nearly 10 times the amount of XP you get from the top tier quests. I was expecting a value closer to 16,841.

It makes me laugh that you throw out a number that you expected and it's so exact Laugh in a good way

spoqster wrote: »

Another thing: From the wording in the group finder it is unclear if the xp bonus is awarded if you use the tool for any dungeon run, or only if you choose the option to run a random dungeon.

From how I personally read it, I figured you only received the bonuses if you ran a random dungeon.. but now you have me doubting

UrQuan

MissBizz wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

I'm interested to see what the XP rewards are like. If anyone's done a run with the group finder, please post the XP reward you got! I'd like to try and see how it fits into the standard XP setup.

It's 101k exp for completion...I don't think that's what you're asking tho..???

@NewBlacksmurf According to the patch notes, "Queuing and completing a random dungeon now awards bonus experience and items. Your first completion of the day will grant a fairly sizeable chunk of experience. You also receive a blue item from the two new sets mentioned in the item set section above. Subsequent runs give slightly less experience, and a green item from the same sets as previously."
I'm looking for the two different values of bonus XP (the "fairly sizeable chunk" and "slightly less") you are rewarded with by using the grouping tool.

The character I was on was set to recieve 101,000 exp for the first dungeon.
I'll have to look and see the difference by character levels

That's.... quite a lot of XP. That's nearly 10 times the amount of XP you get from the top tier quests. I was expecting a value closer to 16,841.

It makes me laugh that you throw out a number that you expected and it's so exact Laugh in a good way

Not going to lie: I was actually expecting it would be the exact same number that @Enodoc quoted (well, I wouldn't have gotten quite as precise - I probably would have said 16,800). I guess that tells you that we're using the same frame of reference...

Manoekin

I just tried cross-faction, Random Veteran Dungeon finder with some friends.

First of all, it did not let us queue as a group. Instead I had to queue by myself to get into the party of 3 who were on a different faction.

The points:

• It was very intuitive and easy to understand as far as queuing up went, and forming a cross faction group was flawless. However, there is no instructions on what you are supposed to do once inside. The UI merely says "In progress". It should act as a quest tracker, with clear objectives on what needs to be done to get the reward.
• I did not get to see the reward. The dungeon seemingly never finished. We cleared every single mob that we could find, every boss. Nothing. It never completed and I never received experience or extra loot. Once I left the dungeon I did notice though that the game thought I completed it, and said my next random vet dungeon would be worth less rewards. This was confusing.
• Yes.
• General feedback would be just adding an objective tracker instead of the stated "In progress" note. Other than that and the bug stated in the first point I really enjoyed it and it was very simple to use.

redspecter23

I'm wondering what dungeons are included in the random queue? Is it all non vet dungeons? All vet dungeons? A choice of either?

Also there are some dungeons that are just not random friendly. I can see 90%+ people just abandoning group if vet ICP comes up. 70%+ if it's Vet WGT.

Is it the intention that players queue up then just leave if they hit the "booby prize" of dungeons? I can finish vet Wayrest Sewers and 3 more dungeons in the same time it would take to finish vet WGT and that's if all the members I get set up with are top notch. Even one weak link means an auto non completion in ICP and a really rough time in WGT.

From a pure awards/minute scenario, it's in the player's best interest to abandon until an "easy" dungeon comes up as it's just plain faster to run it and certainly much easier to carry weaker players if you get a bad team.

I'd hate to be "that guy" but if this is the current implementation, I can see myself simply leaving any WGT or ICP dungeon I get ported into.

If all vet dungeons were of approximately the same difficulty and length, this wouldn't be an issue but that's far from the case.

spoqster

Manoekin wrote: »

I just tried cross-faction, Random Veteran Dungeon finder with some friends.

First of all, it did not let us queue as a group. Instead I had to queue by myself to get into the party of 3 who were on a different faction.

The points:

• It was very intuitive and easy to understand as far as queuing up went, and forming a cross faction group was flawless. However, there is no instructions on what you are supposed to do once inside. The UI merely says "In progress". It should act as a quest tracker, with clear objectives on what needs to be done to get the reward.
• I did not get to see the reward. The dungeon seemingly never finished. We cleared every single mob that we could find, every boss. Nothing. It never completed and I never received experience or extra loot. Once I left the dungeon I did notice though that the game thought I completed it, and said my next random vet dungeon would be worth less rewards. This was confusing.
• Yes.
• General feedback would be just adding an objective tracker instead of the stated "In progress" note. Other than that and the bug stated in the first point I really enjoyed it and it was very simple to use.

Yeah, wouldn't it be kind of neat if the original quest would be available to players again? The original quests grant a player a skill point and crap loot as a reward. Maybe ZOS can turn that around. Make the dungeon quests repeatable (like the crappy Cyrodiil quests) but reward a random set item as a quest reward each time (instead of the rng boss drop). That way, you would a) give players a guide for each dungeon run, and b) would reward them with a guaranteed loot for each run, which varies in quality from random crap set lala to monster mask.

Or keep the monster mask dropping randomly on the boss and introduce a non monster set piece as a quest reward, so that a player will always at least get that.

code65536

I got together a group of friends, and we all queued up to do a random nonvet dungeon.

• We each queued individually, and were grouped fairly promptly (which is to be expected, as we had a tank, a healer, and 2 DPS). We all grouped for a random dungeon, and the game threw us into Elden Hollow.
• After killing the final boss of the dungeon, we each received an instant reward of around 100K XP.
• We each also received a mail. Undaunted Daily Stipend or something like that. I got 5x Grand Soul Gems, 1x Charcoal of Remorse, and 1x set item.
• We did not try another dungeon, but we did notice that the reward stated on the grouping screen was now around 33K XP (one-third of the original).

One of my friends did not see his reward mail because he had created a new template character on the PTS. ZOS injects each template character with 10 million AP (which is why all the templates are running around with the Tribune rank), but that injection of AP also meant that any account that has created a template character on the PTS now has an inbox inundated with literally thousands of Rewards for the Worthy mails. This is likely why other testers have not noticed receiving a reward--because they likely have a mail backlog stretching the length of Tamriel.

Oh, and here's a little visual bug:

Manoekin

code65536 wrote: »

I got together a group of friends, and we all queued up to do a random nonvet dungeon.

• We each queued individually, and were grouped fairly promptly (which is to be expected, as we had a tank, a healer, and 2 DPS). We all grouped for a random dungeon, and the game threw us into Elden Hollow.
• After killing the final boss of the dungeon, we each received an instant reward of around 100K XP.
• We each also received a mail. Undaunted Daily Stipend or something like that. I got 5x Grand Soul Gems, 1x Charcoal of Remorse, and 1x set item.
• We did not try another dungeon, but we did notice that the reward stated on the grouping screen was now around 33K XP (one-third of the original).

One of my friends did not see his reward mail because he had created a new template character on the PTS. ZOS injects each template character with 10 million AP (which is why all the templates are running around with the Tribune rank), but that injection of AP also meant that any account that has created a template character on the PTS now has an inbox inundated with literally thousands of Rewards for the Worthy mails. This is likely why other testers have not noticed receiving a reward--because they likely have a mail backlog stretching the length of Tamriel.

Oh, and here's a little visual bug:

That's probably what happened to me because I made around 4 templates. Still, I did not notice the experience gain on either of my two runs. Maybe I missed it, and if I did some sort of notice or popup would be appreciated.

potirondb16_ESO

Did you find the tool was intuitive and easy to understand since we improved the UI?

Yup, it's really beautifull, and looks great.

•Were you satisfied with the incentive you received for queuing and completing a dungeon?

Haven't look at the reward, but it does look good, the amount of xp you gain is actually substential so I'm thinking yes it is Worth it.

•Did you use the Grouping Tool to group with players from other alliances?

Not yet ...

•Do you have any other general feedback?

Really look good, as some other I do feel like it would be nice to get an actual pop-up for the completion of the quest but the mail is working ok. I was wondering two thing, could there be a special reward for exemple you get Inside the dongeon talk to the npc and activate assassin mode where you have to complete the dongeon within the time for an assassin mode... stuff like that could be nice.

code65536

Manoekin wrote: »

That's probably what happened to me because I made around 4 templates. Still, I did not notice the experience gain on either of my two runs. Maybe I missed it, and if I did some sort of notice or popup would be appreciated.

I didn't recall seeing any sort of on-screen indicator that I had gotten the XP. The way I knew I had gotten it was because I was running the Combat Log Statistics addon, and when I went back to review the log, I saw that huge chunk of XP.

I suppose they could add something to your notification window acknowledging that you have completed the random dungeon, that you have been rewarded nnn XP and reminding people to check their mails. That way, it'll be unobtrusive for people who don't care and for people who do, it'll persist until dismissed it from their notifications, so it's not a flash-in-the-pan thing that people are likely to miss.

Enodoc

Thought I would drop in this bit of feedback from the new MMORPG.com article by Ryan Getchell:

One quirk I did come across was when you place your group into a queue the members of the party receive no visual indication that it happened. There is a very faint audio cue that is played but if you’re not listening specifically for it, you’re going to miss it. I think there needs to be some sort of visual cue to notify other party members of the group leader’s action. Perhaps a simple text across the screen or in the chat box would work. Something that would say “Your group has queued for [insert name here]” to let you know the action has taken place. This way if the leader makes a mistake and queues for something incorrectly or it isn’t what one of the other members thought they were doing, no one is wasting valuable time.

Jesh

@ZOS_GinaBruno Question about how the LFG tool works:

How exactly does the Random Vet Dungeon place the player?
Essentially there are 2 possibilities:
1. You are placed in a group with other players looking for a Random Vet Dungeon. Whole group is queued for Random Vet Dungeon.
2. You get placed in a group that are looking for a specific vet dungeon, but only you (or other group members queued for Random Vet Dungeon) would get the bonus rewards, because you didn't choose which vet dungeon.

Personally, I think option 2 would do wonders for PUGs that need slots filled in their group with experienced players being encouraged to join (Random Dungeon rewards) to help them complete it.
Can you explain how the placement works a little more?

redspecter23

Jesh wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno Question about how the LFG tool works:

How exactly does the Random Vet Dungeon place the player?
Essentially there are 2 possibilities:
1. You are placed in a group with other players looking for a Random Vet Dungeon. Whole group is queued for Random Vet Dungeon.
2. You get placed in a group that are looking for a specific vet dungeon, but only you (or other group members queued for Random Vet Dungeon) would get the bonus rewards, because you didn't choose which vet dungeon.

Personally, I think option 2 would do wonders for PUGs that need slots filled in their group with experienced players being encouraged to join (Random Dungeon rewards) to help them complete it.
Can you explain how the placement works a little more?

Number 2 would probably be better for faster queues, but wouldn't be very random at all. If the daily pledge is Elden Hollow for instance, then the vast majority of those randomly queued, especially those in tank/heal roles will be queued for Elden Hollow to fill up those runs, which defeats the purpose of it being random.

On a similar topic, I was discussing with my guildmates last night how the random queue might spell the death of casual guild organized dungeon runs. I'll be running random queues for rewards but it doesn't help me run with friends or guildmates at all. It actually creates a system where I run with my friends and guildmates less than I currently do. I'm not sure that's necessarily healthy for the game.

rixsolstice

I haven't been able to test this because nobody seems to want to help me with this... so I'll ask here if it's the case.

Currently, a full four-person group cannot queue using the LFG to make it so everyone in the group scales. it ONLY scales the dungeon to the group leader.

Does the updated LFG tool fix that problem?

When thieves' guild launches, will I be able to take a FULL four person disparate group of people of varying levels (Say, Level 25, Level 23, V10, V6) and have everyone scaled up to V15 the way it works if you queue using the LFG tool?

Enodoc

rixsolstice wrote: »

I haven't been able to test this because nobody seems to want to help me with this... so I'll ask here if it's the case.

Currently, a full four-person group cannot queue using the LFG to make it so everyone in the group scales. it ONLY scales the dungeon to the group leader.

Does the updated LFG tool fix that problem?

When thieves' guild launches, will I be able to take a FULL four person disparate group of people of varying levels (Say, Level 25, Level 23, V10, V6) and have everyone scaled up to V15 the way it works if you queue using the LFG tool?

@rixsolstice Apparently so. According to the recent article on the website, a full pre-made group will be able to use the grouping tool, in order to get the Random Dungeon rewards, and, presumably therefore, the battle-level scaling.