Weapon damage broken again? Puncturing sweeps vs Biting Jabs

DanielWinterborn

ZOS_Alex wrote: »

Hi, everyone.

We understand that people are going to disagree from time to time, but please remember to keep your comments respectful at all times on our forums, even when you disagree with others. Insults or other disruptive behavior do not help further discussion and can move a thread off topic quickly. We encourage sharing opinions, but we ask that they are constructively stated when doing so, as this will help keep the discussion on track.

Thank you!

This is not a real person, just an automated answer. ZOS has left us to Templar haters and a couple of MSDOS Bots

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Bitting jabs gives crit chance bonus to next few attacks to those who havent realised it yet.
On my khajiit stamplar with briarheart set on, bitting jabs almost always crits. proccing more often than not the briarheart also and evil hunter does the job done regarding stamina.

So before you ask for buffing bj consider what would happen when one shoots someone and have "nerf bitting jabs" threads. Use rally & dual wield penetration maces and let me know if at 76% crit chance with briarheart on top is not enough damage to kill nb glass cannons there.

Van_0S

zornyan wrote: »

Burning light passive is magic damage, and although it may scale with weapon power, it gets buffed by thumatauge ,which is probably where the extra damage is coming from.

Does thumatauge give additional dmg to camo hunter?

zornyan wrote: »

Stam templar is the bottom of the bottom right now.

I disagree, stamplars or any stamina user will never be the bottom class due to weapon and guild skills BUT they do use less of their class skills.(even though they score less in dps)

Xantaria

guys We already figured out completely why the numbers are what they are. Everything seems legit. I do not see a point in amking this any bigger than it is.

Justice31st

@Alcast do not be mad about not knowing about the dual nirnhorned sword and it affecting spell penetration and increasing the Templar skill damage. Like I said before, Deltia had a old YouTube video stating how and already answered your question. I would urge in the future you look at how he can help answer your questions before needing to make a post about it. Below I posted a new behind the scene video of Deltia theory crafting to help give you a glimpse on how a mastermind thinks and works. Take care, and here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99g4D_lDVR4

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Discussing Disciplinary Actions]

Callous2208

Justice31st wrote: »

@Alcast do not be mad about not knowing about the dual nirnhorned sword and it affecting spell penetration and increasing the Templar skill damage. Like I said before, Deltia had a old YouTube video stating how and already answered your question. I would urge in the future you look at how he can help answer your questions before needing to make a post about it. Below I posted a new behind the scene video of Deltia theory crafting to help give you a glimpse on how a mastermind thinks and works. Take care, and here you go

Lol, this guy.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

EgoRush

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Bitting jabs gives crit chance bonus to next few attacks to those who havent realised it yet.
On my khajiit stamplar with briarheart set on, bitting jabs almost always crits. proccing more often than not the briarheart also and evil hunter does the job done regarding stamina.

So before you ask for buffing bj consider what would happen when one shoots someone and have "nerf bitting jabs" threads. Use rally & dual wield penetration maces and let me know if at 76% crit chance with briarheart on top is not enough damage to kill nb glass cannons there.

Slotting Evil/Camo Hunter is the exact same crit buff as what Biting Jabs is giving; Major Savagery. These don't stack unfortunately. So the additional buff with Biting Jabs is essentially useless if you slot Evil/Camo Hunter whereas the magicka morph self-heal really excels.

Justice31st wrote: »

@Alcast do not be mad about not knowing about the dual nirnhorned sword and it affecting spell penetration and increasing the Templar skill damage. Like I said before, Deltia had a old YouTube video stating how and already answered your question. I would urge in the future you look at how he can help answer your questions before needing to make a post about it. Below I posted a new behind the scene video of Deltia theory crafting to help give you a glimpse on how a mastermind thinks and works. Take care, and here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99g4D_lDVR4

This is comedy gold. Thank-you for linking it and contributing to this discussion.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Justice31st

EgoRush wrote: »

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Bitting jabs gives crit chance bonus to next few attacks to those who havent realised it yet.
On my khajiit stamplar with briarheart set on, bitting jabs almost always crits. proccing more often than not the briarheart also and evil hunter does the job done regarding stamina.

So before you ask for buffing bj consider what would happen when one shoots someone and have "nerf bitting jabs" threads. Use rally & dual wield penetration maces and let me know if at 76% crit chance with briarheart on top is not enough damage to kill nb glass cannons there.

Slotting Evil/Camo Hunter is the exact same crit buff as what Biting Jabs is giving; Major Savagery. These don't stack unfortunately. So the additional buff with Biting Jabs is essentially useless if you slot Evil/Camo Hunter whereas the magicka morph self-heal really excels.

Justice31st wrote: »

@Alcast do not be mad about not knowing about the dual nirnhorned sword and it affecting spell penetration and increasing the Templar skill damage. Like I said before, Deltia had a old YouTube video stating how and already answered your question. I would urge in the future you look at how he can help answer your questions before needing to make a post about it. Below I posted a new behind the scene video of Deltia theory crafting to help give you a glimpse on how a mastermind thinks and works. Take care, and here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99g4D_lDVR4

This is comedy gold. Thank-you for linking it and contributing to this discussion.

Np bro, I agree. Deltia has found a nice way to incorporate both knowledge and comedy relief to help entertain his viewing audience. Just look after the credits @14:08 for an example about how he implements his comedy in his videos. I feel This is what helps contribute to his overall success that he has had as a pro player in Elder Scrolls Online as he has been able to make a living playing this game. Have a good one.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

EgoRush

Justice31st wrote: »

@Alcast do not be mad about not knowing about the dual nirnhorned sword and it affecting spell penetration and increasing the Templar skill damage. Like I said before, Deltia had a old YouTube video stating how and already answered your question. I would urge in the future you look at how he can help answer your questions before needing to make a post about it. Below I posted a new behind the scene video of Deltia theory crafting to help give you a glimpse on how a mastermind thinks and works. Take care, and here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99g4D_lDVR4

Ok let's analyse this video and "mastermind" as you speak.

"There's some math out there that says 2H may be better", this is out-of-date knowledge. The passives Twin Blade & Blunt along with Heavy Weapons have been equalised meaning that DW is always better than 2H due to naturally giving more spell damage and allowing a second set bonus.

Suggestion on gear is to have 2 Kena yet his rotation is to get Proxi up, streak in, Empower, then Proxi explodes and Dawnbreaker is used. Good luck doing the 2 light attacks needed to proc Kena without wasting your Empower on a light attack as opposed to the skill he intends. Kena for this build and tactics is not a smart idea. I mean he doesn't even explain why he has this 2-piece here, it just seems like he's asked someone what is a top DPS burst build and they've said Julianos/Kena/Willpower.

He's actually considering the Mage and Apprentice as viable Mundus stones. Need I even argue this? No Thief/Shadow, the well-known meta Mundus stones for best DPS? Not even considering the Atronach for resource management - one of the most crucial aspects of PvP. Though this is understandable considering he's making a burst and run build.

Disclaimer: I have no issue with Deltia, I think he does great things for this community and I love his idea of an interactive panel for his builds where people can chime in with answers to his queries. However, going around insulting others that they don't know better than Deltia is disrespectful and not what this community should be. Deltia seeks the help of a lot of other players, Gilliam who he mentioned as well as people like Nifty. You want a true mastermind, go speak with one of them.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

AfkNinja

Yikes, so much modding up in hur

OGLezard

ZOS_Alex wrote: »

Hi, everyone.

We understand that people are going to disagree from time to time, but please remember to keep your comments respectful at all times on our forums, even when you disagree with others. Insults or other disruptive behavior do not help further discussion and can move a thread off topic quickly. We encourage sharing opinions, but we ask that they are constructively stated when doing so, as this will help keep the discussion on track.

Thank you!

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAha *coughs* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA That is how I feel everytime I see the Z symbol thinking there is some GOOD CONSTRUCTIVE WE GIVE A CRAP ABOUT OUR GAME comment in this thread from zeni...... the one thing you guys are good at is not letting me down when it comes to knowing I am getting trolled by that symbol! Makes me laugh as hard as this guy

https://youtube.com/watch?v=eVFd46qABi0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVFd46qABi0

zornyan

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Bitting jabs gives crit chance bonus to next few attacks to those who havent realised it yet.
On my khajiit stamplar with briarheart set on, bitting jabs almost always crits. proccing more often than not the briarheart also and evil hunter does the job done regarding stamina.

So before you ask for buffing bj consider what would happen when one shoots someone and have "nerf bitting jabs" threads. Use rally & dual wield penetration maces and let me know if at 76% crit chance with briarheart on top is not enough damage to kill nb glass cannons there.

Wrong. The passive from jabs is major savagery, the same buff provided by camo/Evil hunter, which most should have slotted, your crit chance is no higher than someone elses.

Also crit chance isn't as good in pvp, shields can't be crit, block cancels out crit, impenetrable reduces crit, CP reduces crit and you're sacrificing too much raw damage for it.

zornyan

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Burning light passive is magic damage, and although it may scale with weapon power, it gets buffed by thumatauge ,which is probably where the extra damage is coming from.

Does thumatauge give additional dmg to camo hunter?

zornyan wrote: »

Stam templar is the bottom of the bottom right now.

I disagree, stamplars or any stamina user will never be the bottom class due to weapon and guild skills BUT they do use less of their class skills.(even though they score less in dps)

Yep, as it's magic damage, also buffs ALL ultimates except Dragon leap, so soul harvest, flawless dawnbraker, empowering sweep etc and normal moves like killers blade do magic damage too.

Stamplars are defiantly bottom in pvp,.

They have the least amount of mobility.

They have zero escape options

They have no class elf heals, and no buffs to healing recieved.

Their only damage skill biting jabs is massively bugged, and doesn't apply to 140% bonus damage to shields

Basically a stamplar is better of wrecking blow or steel tornado spamming. But then you might as well go stam sorc or stam DK as they have more self healing /survivability and raw damage.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

EgoRush wrote: »

Slotting Evil/Camo Hunter is the exact same crit buff as what Biting Jabs is giving; Major Savagery. These don't stack unfortunately. So the additional buff with Biting Jabs is essentially useless if you slot Evil/Camo Hunter whereas the magicka morph self-heal really excels.

You only look at the passive bonus not at the active one?
4% to regain 1000sta and do an excess of 5000 damage! 15% the chance against Undead (vampire players), Daedra, or Werewolves (players also). And that un-buffed. Because rally/momentum etc do stack and raise the above even more.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hey guys, we took a look at both Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs, and they both appear to be functioning properly. Keep in mind (as was mentioned earlier in this thread) that there are a lot of stats that determine the damage output of these abilities, including Champion Points, so one player's damage is likely to be different than someone else's.

AfkNinja

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

EgoRush wrote: »

Slotting Evil/Camo Hunter is the exact same crit buff as what Biting Jabs is giving; Major Savagery. These don't stack unfortunately. So the additional buff with Biting Jabs is essentially useless if you slot Evil/Camo Hunter whereas the magicka morph self-heal really excels.

You only look at the passive bonus not at the active one?
4% to regain 1000sta and do an excess of 5000 damage! 15% the chance against Undead (vampire players), Daedra, or Werewolves (players also). And that un-buffed. Because rally/momentum etc do stack and raise the above even more.

He's talking about Major Savagery which is on Bitting Jabs and Evil Hunter. You're already getting the buff from Evil Hunter and biting jabs is bugged so you're almost better off just using Wrecking Blow like other stamina classes. Everyone is pointing out there is no real reason to be a Stamina Templar and they are correct. The class is so buggy, loses it's primary defense and the DPS is in the trash. Magplar's sweeps will out dmg Biting Jabs AND have vastly superior sustain and defense. Stamina Templar has no role at the moment.

Biting Jabs: Stamina dps and adds Major Savagery, .5 sec KB and gives CC immunity, bugged to not work on dmg shields.

Wrecking Blow: more reliable dmg vs all opponents, empower, 3 sec KB

Puncturing Sweeps: More dmg than Jabs because of magic piercing bonuses, heals 40% of dmg done. .5 sec KB. WB and Puncturing are both better than Biting Jabs and you don't even have to lose major savagery as you can get it from evil hunter which you should be using anyway.

Ara_Valleria

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, we took a look at both Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs, and they both appear to be functioning properly. Keep in mind (as was mentioned earlier in this thread) that there are a lot of stats that determine the damage output of these abilities, including Champion Points, so one player's damage is likely to be different than someone else's.

PRAISE JESUS !! HALLELUJAH !!

Someone responded after 23days !!

AfkNinja

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, we took a look at both Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs, and they both appear to be functioning properly. Keep in mind (as was mentioned earlier in this thread) that there are a lot of stats that determine the damage output of these abilities, including Champion Points, so one player's damage is likely to be different than someone else's.

SO it's all in our heads? Tickling shields with jabs/sweeps is intended?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Has there been testing for damage against shields?

Essiaga

timidobserver wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I ditched my templar and went to stam nb. A lot more "calm" after a vMA run and surprise attack instant 15k dmg which is f-- OP compared to 1s cast 12k jabsdmg...

"balance"

I would've done this a long time ago. NBs are much better for people that want to play Stamina. The only upside to Stamplars since the game launched was that period where they were the gods of Vet DSA. The only downside to rerolling is that getting Vigor takes some time.

Never made sense to me that Templar is the HEALING class that doesn't get other useful survivable skills (shields is ok in pve but in pvp its a joke because 8k attacks are not uncommon, making 3-4k shield is pretty worthless) because of their heals but stamplars have to grind out AP to get a stamina heal that every other class can get on top of their other abilities.

Cleansing Ritual should have a stamina morph to be Vigor and all the other classes should use their class heals or Purge should have a stamina morph, but Vigor out performs Ritual. Things like Vigor and even CP make it nearly impossible to balance classes. I know VMA makes vigor a necessity but prior to that it was just and OP skill stam build used in addition to greater dps and greater mobility, etc.

What is the benefit of having a stamplar in the group really or solo for that matter? They don't benefit much from their class strengths the way NB, Sorc, and even DKs do. That needs addressed as well. Class Identity.

Magicka templars don't need more damage. We need more debuffs or mitigation to make up for our lack of mobility (which includes dodge rolling and blocking a those require stamina). You can't heal through a WB spam when it only takes 2 to kill you, is easily set up by Crit charge, and easily followed by executioner. It also has a shorter cast time then jab/sweep, does more damage, can't be interrupted, a true hard CC (knockdown plus CC break takes to long to grant immunity that you're likely to eat a second WB, which will knock you down, causing you to need to break again ... ) and it empowers. Dark flare and jabs can be interrupted by many many skills.

All classes need more stam morphs. I'd like for the orignial skill to go away as most of them are super weak and stupid. Replace the first skill with the UNDERUSED morph. Then make a stam morph for some of these skills. Not for dark flare though because solar barrage is just a weaker version of impulse, sap, inhale, etc. Solar barrage needs spiced up a bit. How about give in Maim like like Mass Hysteria (which is by far a much better skill in a much stronger class). It would cost magicka but stam users could still use it for the debuffs.

BlackEar

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, we took a look at both Puncturing Sweep and Biting Jabs, and they both appear to be functioning properly. Keep in mind (as was mentioned earlier in this thread) that there are a lot of stats that determine the damage output of these abilities, including Champion Points, so one player's damage is likely to be different than someone else's.

Thank you.