Enduring Dragon [PvE Tank] by Luna Hlaalu

paulsimonps

OK, so by popular demand I am now posting my finished(ish) DK Tank build for PvE Endgame content. This build focus on trying to gain back as much stamina as possible without having to lower your block while still being able to taunt not only bosses but all their adds and trash mobs. To that end I decided to raise my Max Stamina as much as I possibly could given my set up without dropping below 30k HP. This is because using Synergies, Templar Shards, Earthen Heart Abilities and any Ultimate restores Stamina based on your Max Stamina, due note that the last two are DK only things. Synergies gives you 4% of all your resources back when used, Shards gives 25% of your max stamina back, Earthen heart abilities gives 5% stamina back and when a DK uses an ulti they get all resources back in an amount determined by the ultimate's cost, in the case of Warhorn which costs 250 its 50% of your max resources.

Now to the main event, my gear and stats:


And here are my skills:


Now as you can see I use Engine Guardian instead of the ever popular Bloodspawn, its simply because I as said focus on keeping block up as much as I can, and the Engine Guardian is best when it comes to resource management. When I get the Stamina version its awesome cause its 1148 stamina every 0.5s but if I get Magicka I can use my igneous shield to convert it to stamina that way(1455 per), really the HP one is the worst since sure its a great heal but I would rather get the other two. Next up on my gear list is Hist Bark, for me its an obvious choice and its the same for many others, its 20% chance when you block to not take damage and to not take block cost, so again going with the theme of not dropping my block.

Now the odd ones out here are the Agility and Endurance sets, or well at least how I use them. I use 3 agility and 2 Endurance, instead of 2 Agility and 3 Endurance. For me it was simple, I needed the Stamina and Health from both sets 2 piece bonus and would then have one spot left, which 3 piece should I take. Obviously the Weapon Damage since my build is meant to never drop block and so Stamina recovery would be useless, but the Weapon Damage also came in handy when I did my "DPS" set up for vWGT Planar Inhibitor boss fight.

Now When it comes to my skills its very simple, taunt enemies, debuff enemies, buff myself. Take em in order. Igneous shield, gives me around 9k dmg shield, ups my self heals and gives me 5% stamina back on use, no reason not to have it. Pierce armor, I like this taunt more than the ranged one and I will always use this unless there is a boss fight where I absolutely have to use ranged, which are very few, I like this morph simply because its applies both debuffs. Now you might say that well most of the time a good healer will put elemental drain on which applies the major breach anyway so why bother. Because they only ever apply the elemental drain on single target fights, adds and trash mobs don't get that kind of treatment. Now next ups is Deep Slash, for me the fact that the 15% low damage from the enemies is splashed onto 2 additional targets is more worth it than the ulti gain from Heroic slash. For example I only have to use it once during the Mage battle in AA to apply it to all three Axes, saving me stamina while making sure I take as little damage as I can.

Now again following the theme of block always up I choose Coagulating blood because Green Dragon Blood gives me nothing, the stamina recovery would be useless for me and the extra heals for Coagulating is really nice to have. Then lastly Absorb Magic, now you can go either way with that morph and I have indeed flipped back and forth but its really important to always have on both bars. My second bar is my CC bar and deserves almost no mention, I only ever use it on Normal and Veteran Dungeons, with the exception of IC dungeons where I almost never use it at all. My ultimate is aggressive Warhorn on both bars, it increases all max resources by 10% and ups the DPS's dmg significantly during the first 10 seconds, and as a DK it as said gives you 50% resources back.

So basically my play style is this, Taunt everything, block all the time and try and keep deep slash on as many things as possible, and most importantly use as many synergies as you possibly can. I prefer to have at least 1 sorc dps in the group, their liquid lightning is great for the synergies plus they usually pull high dps. Having a templar healer is almost a must but if you go without then know that in most of the old content its OK to weave in heavy attacks for Stamina. I won't go into detail why I use the CP the way I do, if you look at it it will make sense. Lastly on the note of race, yes I am a Dunmer, not the best race for a tank but I play one because they are my favorite race lore wise, Morrowind for life! But in all honesty this build works way better for an Imperial, with the extra HP and Stamina you could lower your attributes in HP and focus more into stamina without going below 30k HP.

Now for just a quick thing, its not directly part of my Tank build but here is quickly what I use during the Planar Inhibitor:


I mainly just use a heavy attack weave with Focused Aim and one Focused aim will one shot a portal and its fast enough to even in double portal phase bring them all down together with the other person. I still have my sword and board so I can pick up any accidental adds that might occur and then I debuff the boss and switch over to try and do as much dmg as I can. Now this is not a build that works for DPS roles but its good enough for what I needed it to do. I also use this in last boss in Darkshade Cavern.

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Now if you have any questions about my build or you know if there is something I forgot I will be happy to answer all your comments below.

Corrupted_Soul

If you have Level 5 Assault I would recommend using Vigor over Dragon Blood, even though you generate 5% ULT with it.

hydrocynus

Hi Luna

Thank you very much for this.

What app do you use to show all your armor, stats, Cp on one page? This is a fantastic view of everything in one go.

Discussion point (not criticism):
I was wondering about your phys and spell resist. They seem a bit low. You don't batitle with that at all? You might be able to improve that with a change from Hist Bark to Armour Master and slot evasion which will give you the same 5 set bonus as hist bark but at the same time will increase your health (so you can focus more into stamina ☺) just for having evasion slotted and you get the phys/spell resist boost. I think you lose nothing but a skill slot and you gain extra resistance and extra stamina by reducing attribute points in health if you have any there. Evasion is expensive wrt stamina though. It does still give you the 20% block while you weave heavy attacks so you have that extra mitigation at that point.

Low on stamina, hit evasion and heavy attack for 10 seconds with 20% block and resistances high.

paulsimonps

Corrupted_Soul wrote: »

If you have Level 5 Assault I would recommend using Vigor over Dragon Blood, even though you generate 5% ULT with it.

For me Dragon blood is an "OH Sh.." heal, I prefer to rely on my healers, that's what they are there for right? But in fights that I know that the enemy are strong hitting I put it up and I keep it up, for 2 reasons. 1. the effect of the Coagulating Blood gives me 8% more healing received as long as its up, which is a duration of 23s. 2. As long as any Draconic powers are active I get 12% more healing received. So those two together helps my healer out a lot. Vigor is a HoT, while Dragon blood is a direct heal, I prefer to use that in "OH Sh.." moments than a HoT and then rely on healers. Also it does not generate ulti, you must be thinking of the Earthen Heart abilities and that's only 3 ulti ever 6s.

hydrocynus wrote: »

Hi Luna

Thank you very much for this.

What app do you use to show all your armor, stats, Cp on one page? This is a fantastic view of everything in one go.

Discussion point (not criticism):
I was wondering about your phys and spell resist. They seem a bit low. You don't batitle with that at all? You might be able to improve that with a change from Hist Bark to Armour Master and slot evasion which will give you the same 5 set bonus as hist bark but at the same time will increase your health (so you can focus more into stamina ☺) just for having evasion slotted and you get the phys/spell resist boost. I think you lose nothing but a skill slot and you gain extra resistance and extra stamina by reducing attribute points in health if you have any there. Evasion is expensive wrt stamina though. It does still give you the 20% block while you weave heavy attacks so you have that extra mitigation at that point.

Low on stamina, hit evasion and heavy attack for 10 seconds with 20% block and resistances high.

The Addon is called mybuild.

When it comes to my resistance, I would first like to show you this: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/187110/dmg-mitigation-for-tanks Just to show you how mitigation has sever diminishing returns. Now just to be sure when I answered this post I went and did some extra testing to see exactly what my mitigation was in my current set up. Here is my Data:

Bash from Storm Atronach next to Shada's Tears Wayshrine: 5597 dmg

Not blocking with my gear on: 3911 dmg 30.1% mitigated

blocking with my gear on: 1369 dmg 75.5% mitigated

blocking with gear on and Absorb magic: 1213 dmg 78.3% mitigated

blocking with gear on, absorb magic and Deep Slash: 1031 dmg 81.5% mitigated

Now if I were to have hard capped resistance the difference of mitigation when not blocking would be 50% instead of only 30% but when I block and use absorb magic and deep slash the difference would only be 4.4% increase. And the fact Evasion and Immovable, 2 out of the 3 Armor abilities, both costs a lot of Stamina I don't like using them. My theme is to keep block up at all costs and using more of my stamina for something else will hurt my blocking, and since I am blocking all the time I always have my hist bark active. And while yes you got 50% mitigation and 20% dodge chance with that set up so you could technically weave heavy attacks with it, 50% is not enough against some bosses. If you want a build that weaves heavy attacks I would make a build that focuses on that and to use Dmg Shields and self heals while doing lots of heavy attacks to keep your stamina up for taunts.

jakeedmundson

very creative build

But i'm also curious about your lower health and low spell and phys resist...
even with 30k for each i still get slammed hard sometimes in vet dungeons.

i think for this build to be survivable you must have a good group of dps peeps you run with that can take down adds from bosses in no time. and a great healer to keep you up with less health and resist, you're gonna get hit hard.

If you run pug groups... i think this build will have a really tough time.

Personofsecrets

This looks like it would be a good build for trials.

I'm surprised that you opt to use choking talons for the maim effect when you already have deep slash slotted. There is also alot of overlap on your bars. Maybe consider leaving off some of those redundant skills for ones that could help your team more. For example, the most interesting thing that you are using, Vigor, I think should be part a part of your tanking rotation and even when you are not just fighting against the planar inhibitor.

The only other striking thing is that you chose to use agility 3 piece despite the weapon damage not being very pertinent to your build. You could easily incorporate the master sword and I think any build that is using 2-5-4 set bonuses (rather than 5-2-2) efficiently should consider the master sword.

I also don't see what is creative here @jakeedmundson . I mean, Deltia posted the general idea of using way too much stamina in a tanking build than what is necessary early on during the IC update. I think increasing the stamina pool is the gut instinct for counteracting the stamina regeneration nerf and with the Battle Roar or Helping Hands passive that high stamina pool strategy or play style can work out pretty well. Furthermore, I find it odd if this is the bold new way of tanking. The stamina regeneration nerf was supposed to prevent blocking all of the time, yet here we are today thinking of more ways to permanently block and all the while gimping ourselves more than ever in order to do so.

Anyhow, thank you for posting your build. Hopefully this will give some people some direction, but I also suggest that those reading this thread for help think about my comments and consider what kind of other skills that they can incorporate into a high stamina build.

paulsimonps

jakeedmundson wrote: »

very creative build

But i'm also curious about your lower health and low spell and phys resist...
even with 30k for each i still get slammed hard sometimes in vet dungeons.

i think for this build to be survivable you must have a good group of dps peeps you run with that can take down adds from bosses in no time. and a great healer to keep you up with less health and resist, you're gonna get hit hard.

If you run pug groups... i think this build will have a really tough time.

In my opinion you don't need more hp or resist if you are doing a build that requires a lot of blocking, but the opposite is also true, you would want high and both if you run a build that blocks less or not at all, I have yet to see a build like that but I have heard of people who do it.

And yea I almost never pug and my usual dps's get 20k+ that of course varies from situation to situation. I as said try to run with at least one sorc, which I almost always do, for the extra synergies and when its not single target my healers usually pop necrotic orb for even more synergies and for magicka. This is a multiplayer game that is focused on group content, as it should be, and in that spirit I prefer to be as synergistic with the rest of my group as possible. For example if I ever see a NB use Mark target on a single target boss I tell them its not necessary because my Pierce Armor which I taunt with applies the same debuffs anyway. Of course if they use it for HP during trash mob phases sure, use it, though I would still recommend against it. Its about being able to work with the group and make the group Min Maxed not just yourself.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

This looks like it would be a good build for trials.

I'm surprised that you opt to use choking talons for the maim effect when you already have deep slash slotted. There is also alot of overlap on your bars. Maybe consider leaving off some of those redundant skills for ones that could help your team more. For example, the most interesting thing that you are using, Vigor, I think should be part a part of your tanking rotation and even when you are not just fighting against the planar inhibitor.

The only other striking thing is that you chose to use agility 3 piece despite the weapon damage not being very pertinent to your build. You could easily incorporate the master sword and I think any build that is using 2-5-4 set bonuses (rather than 5-2-2) efficiently should consider the master sword.

I also don't see what is creative here @jakeedmundson . I mean, Deltia posted the general idea of using way too much stamina in a tanking build than what is necessary early on during the IC update. I think increasing the stamina pool is the gut instinct for counteracting the stamina regeneration nerf and with the Battle Roar or Helping Hands passive that high stamina pool strategy or play style can work out pretty well. Furthermore, I find it odd if this is the bold new way of tanking. The stamina regeneration nerf was supposed to prevent blocking all of the time, yet here we are today thinking of more ways to permanently block and all the while gimping ourselves more than ever in order to do so.

Anyhow, thank you for posting your build. Hopefully this will give some people some direction, but I also suggest that those reading this thread for help think about my comments and consider what kind of other skills that they can incorporate into a high stamina build.

First, since I have done both vWGT HM and vICP HM with it I would class it as being a build good for more than just trials.

Second, if I had the master sword that is what I would have done, I would have flipped one endurance piece to a ring and used the master sword for a 5-2-2-2-1. But sadly enough I do not have it, and now a days its hard to get groups to do VDSA.

Third, I really don't use that many skills and I prefer not to, I taunt and debuff ALL trash and adds as well as the bosses and I give out dmg shields and wpn dmg buffs with my igneous shield. I then prefer to only flip out those abilities that I have to flip out to get what I want. Only thing I changed on my 2nd bar was Igneous shield to choking talons and Deep Slash to Shield Charge, that so I could quickly move around and CC the trash. But I still wanted my taunt and heals to be there if I need it, I don't like switching bars mid fight, especially boss fights.

And lastly yea Deltia might have put up something similar, I could not give less of a crap about it. I came up with this build on my own during the pts I don't need it compared to someone else just because its similar. I use the exact same ability combination now as I did before IC, I do almost nothing differently. Only thing that changed in my build was what Jewelry I wore, what shield and sword I used and what Enchants I had on my armor, that is all that changed. I flipped from stacking HP to stacking Stamina and my build works better now than it did before the update. I have much less trouble keeping my taunts and debuffs up on all the mobs and still being able to block. I have basically used this setup ish for the last year. Only minor changes to work with the changes that occur in the game.

jakeedmundson

Personofsecrets wrote: »

This looks like it would be a good build for trials.

I'm surprised that you opt to use choking talons for the maim effect when you already have deep slash slotted. There is also alot of overlap on your bars. Maybe consider leaving off some of those redundant skills for ones that could help your team more. For example, the most interesting thing that you are using, Vigor, I think should be part a part of your tanking rotation and even when you are not just fighting against the planar inhibitor.

The only other striking thing is that you chose to use agility 3 piece despite the weapon damage not being very pertinent to your build. You could easily incorporate the master sword and I think any build that is using 2-5-4 set bonuses (rather than 5-2-2) efficiently should consider the master sword.

I also don't see what is creative here @jakeedmundson . I mean, Deltia posted the general idea of using way too much stamina in a tanking build than what is necessary early on during the IC update. I think increasing the stamina pool is the gut instinct for counteracting the stamina regeneration nerf and with the Battle Roar or Helping Hands passive that high stamina pool strategy or play style can work out pretty well. Furthermore, I find it odd if this is the bold new way of tanking. The stamina regeneration nerf was supposed to prevent blocking all of the time, yet here we are today thinking of more ways to permanently block and all the while gimping ourselves more than ever in order to do so.

Anyhow, thank you for posting your build. Hopefully this will give some people some direction, but I also suggest that those reading this thread for help think about my comments and consider what kind of other skills that they can incorporate into a high stamina build.

ok... it's creative because it's different.... obviously this works for him and somehow he survives as a tank with much less resistance and less health. (probably where the trade for blocking more comes in) I haven't seen this before. so i thought it was pretty creative.
and yes... i understand the idea of putting more into your stamina pool as a tank.

and maybe he hasn't found a master weapon? maybe his group hasn't been able to finish dsa on veteran... i dunno. it's not that uncommon for people to not have these things.
Everything on his build can be purchased or created... the only thing that would even be expensive to buy is the agility set pieces.
There's already builds out there that completely rely on 9 trait armor and/or high end game gear from veteran trials.
so again... that's why i thought this was creative... mid level end game gear to get through vet dungeons.

Personofsecrets

Yea, if a build can be used in trials, then it is probably sufficient for veteran dungeons. That mostly goes without saying.

I can feel you with the Master Sword debacle. I could use some defending ones myself. I would offer to do VDSA with you, but we might have 1 too many tanks.

I understand your preference for conserving skill use. It makes sense from a perspective of keeping your attributes full. I get the bar swapping thing too. It really sucks how a split second bar swap can cause the tank to take a full on attack and it can be good to play it safe. I would suggest trying out Circle of Protection for Mantikora stomps, as that is a pretty safe time with respect to bar swapping to buff the group, but theory crafting at this point about low level content feels a bit silly at this point.

As far as what Deltia suggest, I just hope to illustrate to @jakeedmundson that the high stamina tank isn't a rare build at the moment. Maybe it's time to try something new with the stamina tank, but why fix something that isn't broken? I guess to make things better for the long term health of the game if we were to ask @ZOS_RichLambert .

If you do look at this though Mr. Lambert, can you take a look at the blocking frames that are lost when a tank switches weapons or roll dodges. Getting hit during those times can be prevented with some amount of skill, but also is a giant pain in the butt that can occur despite skill. Can you also give a thought to health buffs from things such as Entropy, the Masters Sword, or Shield enchantments not resetting when the tank switches their bar. It is irritating and non-intuitive that switching my bars costs me health.

Thanks Paul and thanks Mr. Lambert if you think about the topics that we right on here.

paulsimonps

I agree so much with the HP loss on bar switch its really annoying, and since I have a large stamina enchant on my shields I actually loose Stamina when I switch as well.

When it comes to the mantikora what I usually do is just use my igneous shield whenever he does his big wind up attack, the stomp is never any problem and when I run SO its mostly burn strat so got veils and novas on it anyway.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

This looks like it would be a good build for trials.

I'm surprised that you opt to use choking talons for the maim effect when you already have deep slash slotted. There is also alot of overlap on your bars. Maybe consider leaving off some of those redundant skills for ones that could help your team more. For example, the most interesting thing that you are using, Vigor, I think should be part a part of your tanking rotation and even when you are not just fighting against the planar inhibitor.

The only other striking thing is that you chose to use agility 3 piece despite the weapon damage not being very pertinent to your build. You could easily incorporate the master sword and I think any build that is using 2-5-4 set bonuses (rather than 5-2-2) efficiently should consider the master sword.

I also don't see what is creative here @jakeedmundson . I mean, Deltia posted the general idea of using way too much stamina in a tanking build than what is necessary early on during the IC update. I think increasing the stamina pool is the gut instinct for counteracting the stamina regeneration nerf and with the Battle Roar or Helping Hands passive that high stamina pool strategy or play style can work out pretty well. Furthermore, I find it odd if this is the bold new way of tanking. The stamina regeneration nerf was supposed to prevent blocking all of the time, yet here we are today thinking of more ways to permanently block and all the while gimping ourselves more than ever in order to do so.

Anyhow, thank you for posting your build. Hopefully this will give some people some direction, but I also suggest that those reading this thread for help think about my comments and consider what kind of other skills that they can incorporate into a high stamina build.

ok... it's creative because it's different.... obviously this works for him and somehow he survives as a tank with much less resistance and less health. (probably where the trade for blocking more comes in) I haven't seen this before. so i thought it was pretty creative.
and yes... i understand the idea of putting more into your stamina pool as a tank.

and maybe he hasn't found a master weapon? maybe his group hasn't been able to finish dsa on veteran... i dunno. it's not that uncommon for people to not have these things.
Everything on his build can be purchased or created... the only thing that would even be expensive to buy is the agility set pieces.
There's already builds out there that completely rely on 9 trait armor and/or high end game gear from veteran trials.
so again... that's why i thought this was creative... mid level end game gear to get through vet dungeons.

When it comes to the Master Sword as I said I have just had super bad luck in VDSA. With this build I have been able to do All content and Achievements(All HM Trials and Dungeons) so far, or well almost I have yet to do No death run of vWGT and vICP but I have been very close to it so it will come eventually.

jakeedmundson

paulsimonps wrote: »

I agree so much with the HP loss on bar switch its really annoying, and since I have a large stamina enchant on my shields I actually loose Stamina when I switch as well.

When it comes to the mantikora what I usually do is just use my igneous shield whenever he does his big wind up attack, the stomp is never any problem and when I run SO its mostly burn strat so got veils and novas on it anyway.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

This looks like it would be a good build for trials.

I'm surprised that you opt to use choking talons for the maim effect when you already have deep slash slotted. There is also alot of overlap on your bars. Maybe consider leaving off some of those redundant skills for ones that could help your team more. For example, the most interesting thing that you are using, Vigor, I think should be part a part of your tanking rotation and even when you are not just fighting against the planar inhibitor.

The only other striking thing is that you chose to use agility 3 piece despite the weapon damage not being very pertinent to your build. You could easily incorporate the master sword and I think any build that is using 2-5-4 set bonuses (rather than 5-2-2) efficiently should consider the master sword.

I also don't see what is creative here @jakeedmundson . I mean, Deltia posted the general idea of using way too much stamina in a tanking build than what is necessary early on during the IC update. I think increasing the stamina pool is the gut instinct for counteracting the stamina regeneration nerf and with the Battle Roar or Helping Hands passive that high stamina pool strategy or play style can work out pretty well. Furthermore, I find it odd if this is the bold new way of tanking. The stamina regeneration nerf was supposed to prevent blocking all of the time, yet here we are today thinking of more ways to permanently block and all the while gimping ourselves more than ever in order to do so.

Anyhow, thank you for posting your build. Hopefully this will give some people some direction, but I also suggest that those reading this thread for help think about my comments and consider what kind of other skills that they can incorporate into a high stamina build.

ok... it's creative because it's different.... obviously this works for him and somehow he survives as a tank with much less resistance and less health. (probably where the trade for blocking more comes in) I haven't seen this before. so i thought it was pretty creative.
and yes... i understand the idea of putting more into your stamina pool as a tank.

and maybe he hasn't found a master weapon? maybe his group hasn't been able to finish dsa on veteran... i dunno. it's not that uncommon for people to not have these things.
Everything on his build can be purchased or created... the only thing that would even be expensive to buy is the agility set pieces.
There's already builds out there that completely rely on 9 trait armor and/or high end game gear from veteran trials.
so again... that's why i thought this was creative... mid level end game gear to get through vet dungeons.

When it comes to the Master Sword as I said I have just had super bad luck in VDSA. With this build I have been able to do All content and Achievements(All HM Trials and Dungeons) so far, or well almost I have yet to do No death run of vWGT and vICP but I have been very close to it so it will come eventually.

Sorry!... i didnt' see your other post until after i posted mine... but its awesome that you've been able to get through all vet content with this gear. if i can find some good dps friends i would love to try this out.
my RL friend i play with is a healer and does great... we just struggle finding dps on console for some reason

hydrocynus

Why are you guys saying 30k health is too low? I find that to be sufficient for tanking purposes.

My build is different like i said, but still i think anything over 30k health is wasted as you could be using it on stamina (or magicka for me too). My tank has 30k health, 24k stamina and 20k magicka and use a lot more magicka skills (but this isnt about my build)

@paulsimonps one thing you can do to improve your resource pool even more is to start converting to the Tri-Glyphs. I know that it reduces your overall stamina but what it does is increase your total resources. 1 big piece of Stamina glyph is about 950 (infused) and tri glyph is about 1350 (infused) - sorry these are estimates i dont have it in front of me now. So you will loose about 450 stamina but you will gain 450 magicka and 470 health (i think but its thereabouts). So what you can do is take some attribute points out of health to stay at about 30k, and put them into stamina which keeps your stamina the same but you get a net gain in magicka, which is ever so useful for your magicka based skills (eg will help if you want to spam igneous shield for stamina gain or maybe slot skills like eruption/inner fire/chains for better cc on trash etc).

Again - i am not trying to poke holes in your build. It seems a cool build and i just like the idea of trying to take a good build and see how we could evolve it into something that could potentially be even better. I do the same with my build all the time.

jakeedmundson

hydrocynus wrote: »

Why are you guys saying 30k health is too low? I find that to be sufficient for tanking purposes.

My build is different like i said, but still i think anything over 30k health is wasted as you could be using it on stamina (or magicka for me too). My tank has 30k health, 24k stamina and 20k magicka and use a lot more magicka skills (but this isnt about my build)

@paulsimonps one thing you can do to improve your resource pool even more is to start converting to the Tri-Glyphs. I know that it reduces your overall stamina but what it does is increase your total resources. 1 big piece of Stamina glyph is about 950 (infused) and tri glyph is about 1350 (infused) - sorry these are estimates i dont have it in front of me now. So you will loose about 450 stamina but you will gain 450 magicka and 470 health (i think but its thereabouts). So what you can do is take some attribute points out of health to stay at about 30k, and put them into stamina which keeps your stamina the same but you get a net gain in magicka, which is ever so useful for your magicka based skills (eg will help if you want to spam igneous shield for stamina gain or maybe slot skills like eruption/inner fire/chains for better cc on trash etc).

Again - i am not trying to poke holes in your build. It seems a cool build and i just like the idea of trying to take a good build and see how we could evolve it into something that could potentially be even better. I do the same with my build all the time.

Didn't mean 30k... was thinking more of the 25k when using his bow build.

paulsimonps

hydrocynus wrote: »

Why are you guys saying 30k health is too low? I find that to be sufficient for tanking purposes.

My build is different like i said, but still i think anything over 30k health is wasted as you could be using it on stamina (or magicka for me too). My tank has 30k health, 24k stamina and 20k magicka and use a lot more magicka skills (but this isnt about my build)

@paulsimonps one thing you can do to improve your resource pool even more is to start converting to the Tri-Glyphs. I know that it reduces your overall stamina but what it does is increase your total resources. 1 big piece of Stamina glyph is about 950 (infused) and tri glyph is about 1350 (infused) - sorry these are estimates i dont have it in front of me now. So you will loose about 450 stamina but you will gain 450 magicka and 470 health (i think but its thereabouts). So what you can do is take some attribute points out of health to stay at about 30k, and put them into stamina which keeps your stamina the same but you get a net gain in magicka, which is ever so useful for your magicka based skills (eg will help if you want to spam igneous shield for stamina gain or maybe slot skills like eruption/inner fire/chains for better cc on trash etc).

Again - i am not trying to poke holes in your build. It seems a cool build and i just like the idea of trying to take a good build and see how we could evolve it into something that could potentially be even better. I do the same with my build all the time.

If I went full tri glyphs while keeping 4 infused(when I get a better helmet....) 4 divines it would look this: 2912 mag 2912 stam 3202hp what I get now with all stamina is this: 5568stam (a little less since my helmet is not infused, damn you RNG)

I would then lose 2656 stamina from that, which would mean I would have to put a minimum of 24 points into stamina to regain that. I would then lose 2928 HP, but seeing as I get 3202 hp from the glyphs you are right it would increase it. But those glyphs are damn expensive and I would only gain 2912 mag from it and like 300ish hp, not worth it right now for me. And I would have to put them all on at the same time then change my attributes to make it work. But it would also increase the dmg I do in The planar inhibitor fight since I'm not tank spec'ed during that fight obviously. In the long run, yea probably best, for now it still works.

ashlee17

Vet WGT, Vet ICP, HM SO, HM AA, HM HR, Paul can tank it all! Paul is one of the best tanks in the game.This fantastic build is great for tanks if they want to compete at the highest level! Its a pleasure to heal for him! The more tanks with great builds like this the better! Thank you for sharing your knowledge to help others Paul.

tangy.citrus

xx

Van_0S

Here are my builds for stam/magicka DK

paulsimonps

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

Here are my builds for stam/magicka DK

Love the feedback -.-

amneziac

Whats confusing to me is that you did all the legwork back in July to test resists and footmans, but you reach vastly different conclusions about the data. Right now you get hit by that atro for 1031 damage, but when you tested footmans you got hit for 590. I'm seeing you say that the difference is between 81.5% mitigation and 89.5% (from your previous post), but the way I see it, what should be compared is 1031 damage vs 590 damage.

I'm a nord, so I can't back out ring of preservation since I don't use it, but when I went and tested the atro, I came up with similar numbers. As we've discussed, I run 5 hist, 5 footman, monster helm, master sword. Unbuffed i have a 25,758 physical resistance. Buffed with hardened armor, which I think is odd that you don't use, I have 31,038.

Unbuffed with gear on, blocking, absorb magic, and deep slash: 684 dmg. Your build takes 50.7% more damage than mine when getting hit for 1031.
Buffed with gear on, blocking, absorb magic, and deep slash: 594 dmg. Your build takes 73.56% more damage than mine.

Its not the difference in resist that matters, its what you actually get hit for. Taking 73% more damage so that you can have 186 more weapon damage just doesn't cut it.

That being said, I believe Ashlee when she says that you're a great tank, I think you must be to be running all those things with so much success while getting hit as hard as you do. I just disagree that this is a good set up.

paulsimonps

These are my numbers from before IC:

• blocking with full gear, deep slash and absorb magic: 939 dmg taken, 83.2% mitigated
• blocking with full gear(+Footman), deep slash and absorb magic: 763 dmg taken, 86.4% mitigated

These are the numbers I got after IC:

• blocking with gear on, absorb magic and Deep Slash: 1031 dmg 81.5% mitigated

Not only was there the difference with Footman but the resistance was higher before IC and the Cap is now as well slightly higher. But you think I run the agility for the weapon damage? I have explained this before, I run it as a stand in because my build needed the Endurance and Agility 2pieces, I would then have 1 slot left over and since I didn't have a master sword it was either 3 Endurance or 3 Agility and I choose 3 Agility.

I keep telling people that they overestimate how useful mitigation over 80% is. My point is that yes 89% mitigation is obviously better than 81% but because of diminishing returns you have to put so much into it you lose out on other stuff. I choose to instead focus on getting more resources. My build is not as successful as it could be because I'm a Dunmer and I had to compensate because of it. If I had been an Imperial I would have had significantly more Stamina than what I have now, not only from their Stamina passive but I would also not need to put as much attributes into HP because of their HP passive. And doing the full tri glyph set up that hydrocynus mentioned above would also improve my resources even higher. I didn't hide that fact. Its not a perfect set up, but adding footman instead would in my opinion weaken it not strengthen it.

What I am saying is that even if you want to have a bit lower resources cause you think you can handle it with that there are better options out there than footman because mitigation past 80% is not necessary. If I can survive the mantikora, the warrior, the mantikora lower boss, Molag Kena and others with only 81.5% mitigation I would say that's prof enough that its doable and not necessary to go past. And of course you might say yea its doable but probably only because you have good healers. And no I run with all kinds of healers, and even before IC I used to do a lot of SO runs and other trials with new healers to get their completion so it is not because I always run with super awesome healers. Though that always helps of course.

amneziac

With a good group and being good at tanking yourself, I think its possible to do all current content in complete crap gear. Ticktick is neither a great tank nor does he have great gear (I think he's running shock master or something) and we did a speed run of vWGT the other day. Sorry tick, you're a badass healer and dps though.

The debate isn't whats possible, its whats most viable. I just think that reducing the discussion down to 8% mitigation is oversimplifying when that that mitigation and 5 piece amounts to +40% or more of incoming damage. Your % of mitigation is based on naked non blocking. If you took a baseline attack while at 20k resists and blocking and then ran the percentage change, the number would be much higher...thats the thing about percentages, they can be manipulated to tell different stories. The bottom line is that by running your set up, you can improve your stam pool by 1400 while taking 40% more damage.

Running footman instead of agility/endurance gives you the stats pictured below. Hardly lacking vs your set up and still takes 40% less damage. Footman OP

[img][/img]

paulsimonps

amneziac wrote: »

With a good group and being good at tanking yourself, I think its possible to do all current content in complete crap gear. Ticktick is neither a great tank nor does he have great gear (I think he's running shock master or something) and we did a speed run of vWGT the other day. Sorry tick, you're a badass healer and dps though.

The debate isn't whats possible, its whats most viable. I just think that reducing the discussion down to 8% mitigation is oversimplifying when that that mitigation and 5 piece amounts to +40% or more of incoming damage. Your % of mitigation is based on naked non blocking. If you took a baseline attack while at 20k resists and blocking and then ran the percentage change, the number would be much higher...thats the thing about percentages, they can be manipulated to tell different stories. The bottom line is that by running your set up, you can improve your stam pool by 1400 while taking 40% more damage.

Running footman instead of agility/endurance gives you the stats pictured below. Hardly lacking vs your set up and still takes 40% less damage. Footman OP

[img][/img]

Want to do it your way?

blocking with full gear(+Footman), deep slash, hardened armor, ring of preservation and absorb magic: 590 dmg taken, 89.5% mitigated

blocking with full gear, deep slash, hardened armor, ring of preservation and absorb magic: 725 dmg taken, 87.0% mitigated

Difference is 22.8%. You forget that you have a lot higher resists than I have. Something that I again don't see the need to have. Your Physical resistance gives you 46.8% mitigation with just the armor while mine only gives me 30.1%. And again you have a race with passives that are a lot more beneficial for tanks. If I didn't have my Endurance to buff my HP I would have to put more enchants for it and lose Stamina, if I didn't have Agility I would lose stamina on that. You seem to forget that your increased Hp through your passive is what is giving you better resources than me not your the gear. If I was a Nord or an Imperial the stats would look very differently.

Having capped resist, blocking and all the passives and abilities we have talked about so far with and without footman would be either 85.9% without footman or 87.6% with it. If an enemies base attack was 5000 the difference in mitigation would be 619 with footman and 703 without it. A difference of 13.5% dmg, so you see its not the footman that is giving you those 40% number differences, its the resistance which can easily be achieved in other ways that would give better bonuses as well.

amneziac

My point is that no, you can't achieve the same stats in other ways let alone get better bonuses as well. Because... wait for it... footmans has jewlery + 12% damage mit.

I'll post a build page and we can argue it there.

Rhazmuz

amneziac wrote: »

My point is that no, you can't achieve the same stats in other ways let alone get better bonuses as well. Because... wait for it... footmans has jewlery + 12% damage mit.

I'll post a build page and we can argue it there.

Little off topic, but will look forward to your build guide, its always nice to read about different perspectives!

Gallifreyy

I run an extremely similar build to paul here where i am still able to tank everything with so much stats and keep a reasonable spell and physical resistance. while some people argue that the old setup for tanking in their v14 setup is better and find it hard to tank the new dungeons and content i have been able to tank it all in 6 medium 1 heavy with 1Hand shield and DW back bar ( 5 powerful assault, 2 blood spawn, 3 agility and 2 endurance)

pauls math with mitigation percentages are correct and if you want to go for one of the better builds this patch it is something like this, the higher main stat and the good resistances far out weigh the old v14 footman

willymchilybily

I like this build, although im going my own way at the moment just wanted to comment so i have this thread for reference later. Thanks for the in depth discussion also.

Steel_Brightblade

I've been looking at armours today and was wondering if song of lamae might be better than hist bark due to the physical and spell resists but onto it and the 5 piece bonus looks ok if not great. My thinking behind this was the sheer amount of spell damage that flies about these days. Also the train I'm asking is I just got to rank 16 and don't want to blow materials on items I'm then going to change.

Steel_Brightblade

I've been looking at armours today and was wondering if song of lamae might be better than hist bark due to the physical and spell resists but onto it and the 5 piece bonus looks ok if not great. My thinking behind this was the sheer amount of spell damage that flies about these days. Also the train I'm asking is I just got to rank 16 and don't want to blow materials on items I'm then going to change.

paulsimonps

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

I've been looking at armours today and was wondering if song of lamae might be better than hist bark due to the physical and spell resists but onto it and the 5 piece bonus looks ok if not great. My thinking behind this was the sheer amount of spell damage that flies about these days. Also the train I'm asking is I just got to rank 16 and don't want to blow materials on items I'm then going to change.

I would not recommend Song of Lamea, Whitestakes is a lot better if you want something similar. Instead of healing you it grants you a powerful damage shield. The shield is stronger than the healing from SoL and its cooldown is only 15s as oppose to 30s, only downside is it does no damage pulse. You can also try and grind for the Imperial set that gives you and allies a shield but for now I would go with Whitestakes if you don't want Hist Bark. And unless you make a build specifically for high resist, you don't need to worry about it.

actosh

I had a build with 30k unbuffed resistances and it is not that good as u may expect.
Mobs will still beat the crap out of u in vet dungeons and till zeni makes armor more valueable, go with something like paul.

The more u block, the less important becomes armor if u go higher then 23k.

Nice build by the way

Steel_Brightblade

Thanks, I was leaning towards hist bark, just wanted to be sure. My set up is extent similar to yours and currently work well with rank 14 hist bark so I'll stick with the hist then as I can't see anything that greatly interests me in orsinium other than the maelstrom weapons.

I keep meaning to ask why you have no cp in blademastery, to get the riposte skill that does damage while blocking, thought that would be nice on this build.