CP Active Passive Bar & CP Burn Concept

Gidorick

One of the concerns with the Champion System is the eventual homogenization of players. As players apply more points, their skill-sets will begin to converge toward an eventual identical conclusion. Every player who reaches the 3600 CP cap will have the exact same CP benefits. This is a concern because it de-diversifies builds.

Active Passive Astrolabe
Along with whatever champion system cap and catch-up mechanic ZOS devises, I think it would be a good idea to have an Active Passive bar added to the Champion System with a total of nine slots.

This way, each constellation could be taken advantage of and no matter the veteran rank, diverse builds will remain possible. This would also help with the Champion System power creep concerns.

This bar would have one slot per Constellation in the Champion System.


Activating the star would be as simple as dragging and dropping the star into the astrolabe slot when viewing each constellation.


I wouldn't be opposed to there being 3 slots per constellation either...

We could have the large slot have 100% effect and the 2 smaller slots only have 50% of the constellations effect.

Only the CP skills that are slotted in the Astrolabe actively impacts player performance.

CP Burn Mechanic:
Another part of this concept is the consumption of CPs through use. When a star is placed in a slot it has the possibility of burning away. When a player enters combat their slotted stars burn. After a set number of time burning, the CPs within the stars are consumed. This would only happen while the player is in combat so players wouldn't consume their stars while crafting or gathering materials, or RPing. This would prevent players from feeling that need to always be on the grind.

The time left for each CP within a star could be tracked with a burn bar that is displayed in the above concept image. It's important to note that loosing CPs should NEVER make players loose access to stars they have already unlocked.

These two concepts will turn the champion system into a perpetual earning concept and prevent it from being a mechanic that has an end with the need for further maintenance. Players will be encouraged to try different stars and those who only use one set of stars will need to continually earn CPs to keep their stars fully charged.

So, what do you think? Beneficial? Unneeded? Another idea?

Oh, and if this sounds familiar, it's because this concept is highly influenced by an idea by @Rune_relic which can be found HERE.

UltimaJoe777

Some Champion Passives are geared towards specific things, such as the Armor Focus passives. While the passives are all the same how you utilize them is not. After all it's not like everyone runs enough stuff to utilize every single passive out there and that is why after probably about the first 1500 additional CPs become less beneficial as they are for less useful passives.

Gidorick

I think the benefits lessening after 1500 CPs makes this kind of concept even more beneficial. Also, the fact that some of the passives are VERY specific to specific other passives makes the decision of which Champion Passive to keep active a more critical one. Players could swap out CP Passives for different gameplay situations.

hrothbern

Gidorick wrote: »

One of the concerns with the Champion System is the eventual homogenization of players. As players apply more points, their skill-sets will begin to converge toward an eventual identical conclusion. Every player who reaches the 3600 CP cap will have the exact same CP benefits. This is a concern because it de-diversifies builds.

"This is a concern because it de-diversifies builds"
@Gidorick,
You are absolutely right about this de-diversification effect.
What you suggest to tackle it, is certainly a way to do it.
I pondered as well on this conceptual effect (or flaw?).
and BTW there are more conceptual issues that will be manifest over time, but I do not want to highjack your post:-)
But it will not happen fast considering that the mean player base, without CP grinding bugs, will progress at 1-2 CP per day. At even 2 CP per day, it will take 5 years, and that is practically seen an eternity.

The most simple way to prevent this de-diversification is, I think, to limit the CP being spent to 50% of the max pool.
The easiest way is to hard cap that now to 1800.
A more elegant way, I think, would be to add enough new perks to get a total pool of 7200 CP, of which 3600 may be spend.

Gidorick

I considered that option @hrothbern the problem is, some players have already reached the 1800 cp mark. I guess ZOS could strip them of their CPs...

This concept tries to keep the original design of CPs intact, which is a long term progression. How funny is it that the grind was supposed to take like 5 years and a few players will likely achieve cap in about 1?

Another thought I had was expiration of CPs. What if CPs expired after a year? Players would have a rolling progression that they would have to keep up with. Cap would NEVER be reached. I think it's probably too late for that one too. I doubt CPs are date incoded.

Gidorick

hrothbern wrote: »

A more elegant way, I think, would be to add enough new perks to get a total pool of 7200 CP, of which 3600 may be spend.

I noticed I missed this.... This concept would actually fall in-line with my perpetual end-game progression concept. I think ZOS could up the CP cap regularly to keep that carrot out ahead of players. The problem with this is the design of CPs. They are designed with diminishing returns. If they add more CPs their impact on actual gameplay would be miniscule.

Gidorick

I added a CP consumption mechanic to the OP. I think this mechanic would pretty much fix the eventual issue of players reaching CP cap.

TheShadowScout

Personally I dislike the idea. I like the fact that I can have multiple small boni to enhance all my game aspects, and I would really hate to see something like champoin points to "burn away"... not after all the trouble I went to to get them.

What I would much rather see once the champion system starts to approach homogenization is a mechanic that allows "mastery" of some passives, allowing to spend more points for greater effects. In that, a limiting effect -would- make sense... so anyone can get the basic bonus to the top, but you have to choose carefully which ones you want to "master" - and may want to use your c-points for that instead of putting them into passives that affect your character less...

Though with the proposed c-point caps and the basic nature of the champion system, I don't really fear homogenization of players - sure, the c-boni may at some point be all the same. But the differences realy ought to come from the other side, crom class, weapon, build, skills, setup, whatever. On that side, new options would be a good thing...

Come to think of it, they can always add more stars to the constellations too, to give people more benefits to spread their c-points over. Something I would very much prefer to see rathert then making me pick and choose among the basic passives, or turning hard-earned experience (which c-points -are-) into consumable fuel for my character...

Gidorick

I considered the addition of more stars. That would be the only way I think adding more CPs to the system would make sense. More stars. I am just not sure if there are enough stats in the game to buff beyond what they already have. Of course, more stars would still work with this concept.

I don't see CPs as being "hard earned'. I think that's a bit dramatic. Hundreds of CPs are hard earned, sure... but one? How many CPs do you earn in ten hours of gameplay? The max number of CPs that would burn off in 10 hours of gameplay would be 9. This CP Slot and Burn system would make players have to actually make decisions about their power and how they play and it would turn the CP system into a more dynamic mechanic for ESO.

I don't expect everyone to agree that this is the best route for the CP system and I personally disagree that the equalization of the champion system is ok... I just think that in two or three years these forums are going to be full of "I HAVE 3600 CPS NAO WAT?!?!!?" threads. With this concept, not only would players never actually benefit from having more than 900 CPs at once but they would never, ever stop earning CPs. Once a player reaches CP cap they would still need to earn more once their CP burns off. And I reiterate that the Burn would be for time played with that star slotted. Doing something you don't won't be earning CPs for? Unslot the star.

if, in the end, we all become the same, what's the point of even having the system? If everyone is special... no one is.

Now, @theshadowscout, your idea of mastery is interesting. Are you thinking that certain stars can be overloaded with... I dunno... 150 CPs? Limit that overload to one star per constellation and I like the idea. It would solve the homogenization issue I have but would go the route of making players more powerful. Power gap is already perceived as an issue... I don't know how well that would work out in practice.

BRogueNZ

Appreciate your though and effort but I think it would make no difference.

Everyone has their main constellation and star in that constellation everything else is just filler fluff.

It may make the fluff useless but the main bread and butter of a build will still be in tact.

And earning CP's to charge them would not be difficult, unless you made it an amount that would in the end effect people who play less and who already have less of a CP pool.

Gidorick

I agree that earning the burned CPs would be easy. ZOS would have to find a rate of burn that would be enough to keep players playing and earning CPs but not so much that players feel like they can't keep up.

I question the perspective that currently there are only one star in each constellation that matters and the rest is fluff. Maybe for your specific build that's true, but people have different builds and this would encourage players to try out different builds... at least I think it would.

The problem this concept combats is the fact that while yes, I may like one star in a constellation and you may like another... eventually we will both have both stars full of 100CP. Then the effect of the CPs on our characters (when comparing your character to mine) is actually negated. With this concept, if I like one star and you like a different star in a constellation we would never BOTH have BOTH stars maxed out... this would protect the progression you made in your star by not allowing every single other player to have as many CPs in that star, whether they want to or not.

Jar_Ek

I think burning CPs would discourage casuals (who pretty much by definition don't have everything already and hence earn CPs at a lower rate) and also penalise huge swathes of gameplay. Crafting, PvP, RP would all be negatively affected by a CP burn system.. in fact it would only encourage grinding to keep your CP total. In short it is a horrible idea imho.

A system that essentially provided a set of CP slots would probably only serve to have the desired effect when people were at least capping 9 stars, so above 900 CPs and tbh 1200 so you had more than 3 fully completed stars per colour. Up until then you would just get very focused CP spend so your points are useful... I'm not sure that is really an improvement over a simple cap and decent catch up mechanism as it would limit diversity, especially for certain build types. And I suspect it would have some very negative impact on low CP player competitiveness (who can currently spread for maximum effectiveness with what they have).

On the plus side I love the graphics :-)

BuggeX

I would do it a bit different.

similar to your Idea,

there are 3 Slottypes

Powerfull / Medium / Weak (or wathever)
8 Slots / 12 Slots / 16 Slots

Powerfull will provide 100% from the Star, as it is
Medium will give 75% from the Star
Weak will give 50% from the Star


This will provide more possiblitis and not just bestinslots.

so right after the first 8 Stars the diminishing return is bigger than usuall.

Saturn

I don't agree with your idea, but I think that the fact that everyone will at some point have all passives at 100 is pretty dumb. Maybe they should just make the cap be 1800 cps, which would result in players having access to a lot of passives, yet still being different. I like the Champion Point system as an idea, but its final version with everyone having exactly the same setup is weird, plus the fact that grinders are so far ahead of other players and actually have a gameplay advantage for simply grinding their brains out is idiotic.

But who knows, maybe ZOS has a way to handle this already, but haven't told us. One thing is for sure, they definitely did not expect some people to be almost halfway to the cap after just half a year. One thing they could do is expand the constellations, but it would just make the gap between new players and veterans even wider.

Gidorick

This concept would work in conjunction with the catch up and cap mechanics @Jar_Ek. So newer players would be earning CPs faster but still burning them at the same rate. I get your concern but I don't think it would be an issue. I do, however, agree that the rate of burn would have to be carefully researched and perhaps the rate of burn could be dependent on how much CP a player has.

Players could unslot stars to keep their CPs from burning while they are doing crafting but we would definitely get "I FORGOT TO UNSLOT MY STAR NOW IT'S EMPTY! OH NOEZ!!!" threads. I don't think it's too much to ask players to pay attention to what they are doing and to play deliberately.

I completely understand the disagreement with the fundamental concept at work here with the slotting and the burn, I am quite simply in disagreement with you. I believe players would choose a specific build, optimize that build and once they optimize that build as far as they can with 900 CPs, they would try different builds. Other players would put CPs in different stars to see which stars they like before committing to specific stars. Other players would choose specific stars for specific play types. They would have a tank loadout, a healer loadout and a DPS loadout. It would add a degree of continued strategy to the builds.

But yea... people like Deltia would eventually post "Best Star Slot for X type of character" builds.... but that's really not much different than we have it now I don't think.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

this is a good idea,
currently eso is more like "get all passives"
but it should be a choise for the player wich couple passives he choses out of the bunch to make his build
kinda like GW2 did it originally (I heard its changed now?) with traits
u had 5 rows, in wich u could spend a total of 30 points max, but u only had 70 points in total to spend, every point spend in a row would increase a specific stat, but also every 5/15/25 points u got a fixed minor passive, and every 10/20/30 points u had a choise of a mayor passive of that row (12 passives or something per row to choose from)
the trait system was different for every class (wich stats increased, wich passives) and was a greath way to have people make choises in their build, you cant have it all.
but in eso its kinda gotta grind to collect em all-sorta stuff

Jar_Ek

@Gidorick I am not completely against the base concept, just the burn concept - which I don't think adequately deals with the differing rates at which cps are gained by different playstyles (and levels, gear, etc). It would also add a very annoying mechanism that forces swapping stars in and out to minimise or avoid burn. Potentially leading so some very specialized add-ons that load and unload stars based on certain statuses (such as in combat).

The base concept I can see where you're coming from, but I am unconvinced of the benefit until people get a significant number of cps. I guess I am worried about the players that are not min-max and who do not have lots of cps, and outlier builds, and trying to think through how it would impact them... So maybe the vr1 guy trying to gain cp and not have them burnt away or hybrids (who are already screwed over with the cap removal) trying to actually be able to compete.

TheShadowScout

Gidorick wrote: »

Are you thinking that certain stars can be overloaded with... I dunno... 150 CPs? Limit that overload to one star per constellation and I like the idea.

That was pretty much what I was thinking of, with the possible option of playing a bit with the number of stars to be "mastered" - perhaps start as "one each in warrior/thief/mage" and then go to add some to that until you get "one each in every of the three sub-constellations" - or expand on how far thea can be mastered at a later date.

Another option souwl be more stars, more specific stars, to expand boni. Like, say, we have one star that adds to all elemental damage boni, now we add three more for extra bonus to fire, lightning and ice respectively. Or you have one star for all heavy weapons, now we add two more for even more boni to either axes or maces... - that sort of thing, extra bonus buildup for ever so specialized selections...


The main reason I hate "burning CP" is - I hate playing under a time limit. I hate the nagging voice in the back of my head "hurry, hurry, hurry, earn more, more, more and faster, faster, faster to get the most of your timed bonus!"
Games like this should be -FUN- not a race on the hamster wheel! They should be a leisurely floating in the pool, not a desperate swimming against the current! Bad enough that you have to chase ever more stuff to get your toons nicely geared out, if you'd have to struggle just to replace your "burned expees"... I'd seriously consider leaving.
And c-points -are- expees.
That's hoiw I see them for my endgame characters - a continous way to get that nice "ding, you got better" feeling, even if through diminishing returns that feeling actually means less and less... it still makes me feel good, and that's what I go to ESO for. Loosing something that cost me 400K expees worth of gametime to "burnoff" would make me feel worse... why would I go for a game that made me feel worse?

Gidorick

This concept would change the fundamentals of the justice system from an end game progression system to an end game buff resource.

Of course, this concept is from the guy who wants ZOS to convert Vet Ranks to 30 regular levels with incremental progression (down with that 1 million cliff to climb!) AND perpetual end game progression independent of DLC... so I think we should be getting that "yay I'm progressing" feeling from leveling and not the Champion System.

But since we only have the Champion System for progression, I can understand the disliking of the burn concept. This would be a sort of include treadmill progression....

I don't really care for the idea of overcharged stars simply because that would be contributing to the power gap and would only benefit grinders and sort of create an end game for the champion system. The mechanics of the overcharge really is what the Champion System should have been from day one.

I'm curious @theshadowscout, how do you feel about enlightenment?

nimander99

Skyforge has a fairly elegant catch up mechanic for Sparks. Basically it takes the top <x> amount of players and gives everyone a form of enlightenment until they reach that top <x> position then they earn sparks at the normal rate. It allows players vastly far behind to catch up relatively quickly.

As far as your idea for diversifying builds, well, wont we still be as diverse as we were pre Champion System if everyone hits max? Or are you saying there was no build diversity pre CS?

TheShadowScout

Enlightment is a neat thing to have, for that quick c-point gain each day on average. Especially with the stacking for those people who can't play daily due to work, but have to put in their gaming time on the weekends (makes me wish riding training were like that too...).
And since enlightment isn't time-based, but XP-earned-based... I can take however much time I want to earn my enlighted c-point(s), and won't loose anything (unless I am not playing for longer then the stack limit, that's what, 12 days worth or something like that?)

Also, I see anlightment as option for a future catchup mechanic... when the gaps become larger, the PTB can give out more enlightment to lower CP players...

The annoyance I have with the c-system is how easily grinders seem to pull ahead of casual gamers like me, though I am salving that vexation with a reminder that the diminishing returns will mean it won't be that big a deal...

Gidorick

nimander99 wrote: »

Skyforge has a fairly elegant catch up mechanic for Sparks. Basically it takes the top <x> amount of players and gives everyone a form of enlightenment until they reach that top <x> position then they earn sparks at the normal rate. It allows players vastly far behind to catch up relatively quickly.

As far as your idea for diversifying builds, well, wont we still be as diverse as we were pre Champion System if everyone hits max? Or are you saying there was no build diversity pre CS?

Yep! That's my point @nimander99. Eventually we will reach a point where a good chunk of players will be at CP max. Those players, when comparing themselves to other players who have also reached max CP, will experience a negation effect. So at that point the entire Champion System is moot.

Well... not compared to those who are NOT at max. Up and coming players will be treated to a crazy power gap between them and I think that eventually ESO end game will pretty much just be the min/maxer community running trains of pain on anyone who isn't at max CPs and "casuals" will see CPs as this mountain that is too much of a chore to climb.

I think the champion system, at its core, is pretty flawed. This suggestion is a way to change the system to something that is more fair for everyone and creates a more diverse gaming landscape in the long term.

nimander99

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Enlightment is a neat thing to have, for that quick c-point gain each day on average. Especially with the stacking for those people who can't play daily due to work, but have to put in their gaming time on the weekends (makes me wish riding training were like that too...).
And since enlightment isn't time-based, but XP-earned-based... I can take however much time I want to earn my enlighted c-point(s), and won't loose anything (unless I am not playing for longer then the stack limit, that's what, 12 days worth or something like that?)

Also, I see anlightment as option for a future catchup mechanic... when the gaps become larger, the PTB can give out more enlightment to lower CP players...

The annoyance I have with the c-system is how easily grinders seem to pull ahead of casual gamers like me, though I am salving that vexation with a reminder that the diminishing returns will mean it won't be that big a deal...

There is only 1 place to grind CP's now and that is IC... granted vr15 or 16 dungeon runs works, but not quite as well. I'm cranking out CP's crazy fast in the sewers.

Gidorick

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Enlightment is a neat thing to have, for that quick c-point gain each day on average. Especially with the stacking for those people who can't play daily due to work, but have to put in their gaming time on the weekends (makes me wish riding training were like that too...).
And since enlightment isn't time-based, but XP-earned-based... I can take however much time I want to earn my enlighted c-point(s), and won't loose anything (unless I am not playing for longer then the stack limit, that's what, 12 days worth or something like that?)

Also, I see anlightment as option for a future catchup mechanic... when the gaps become larger, the PTB can give out more enlightment to lower CP players...

The annoyance I have with the c-system is how easily grinders seem to pull ahead of casual gamers like me, though I am salving that vexation with a reminder that the diminishing returns will mean it won't be that big a deal...

hmm.. I see... That gives me some fat to chew on. Thanks for the response!

nimander99

Gidorick wrote: »

show previous quotes

nimander99 wrote: »

Skyforge has a fairly elegant catch up mechanic for Sparks. Basically it takes the top <x> amount of players and gives everyone a form of enlightenment until they reach that top <x> position then they earn sparks at the normal rate. It allows players vastly far behind to catch up relatively quickly.

As far as your idea for diversifying builds, well, wont we still be as diverse as we were pre Champion System if everyone hits max? Or are you saying there was no build diversity pre CS?

Yep! That's my point @nimander99. Eventually we will reach a point where a good chunk of players will be at CP max. Those players, when comparing themselves to other players who have also reached max CP, will experience a negation effect. So at that point the entire Champion System is moot.

Well... not compared to those who are NOT at max. Up and coming players will be treated to a crazy power gap between them and I think that eventually ESO end game will pretty much just be the min/maxer community running trains of pain on anyone who isn't at max CPs and "casuals" will see CPs as this mountain that is too much of a chore to climb.

I think the champion system, at its core, is pretty flawed. This suggestion is a way to change the system to something that is more fair for everyone and creates a more diverse gaming landscape in the long term.

See this is where I think you are mistaken, the CS isn't flawed... it freaking BRILLIANT! I mean for me, there is nothing that makes me quit an mmo faster than hitting level cap. Now I have mini levels to grind out for a long time... and eventually it will be rendered "moot" as you said, while giving some cool passives, its a pretty smart idea imho.

Edit: Plus it makes twinking fun

Gidorick

nimander99 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Gidorick wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Skyforge has a fairly elegant catch up mechanic for Sparks. Basically it takes the top <x> amount of players and gives everyone a form of enlightenment until they reach that top <x> position then they earn sparks at the normal rate. It allows players vastly far behind to catch up relatively quickly.

As far as your idea for diversifying builds, well, wont we still be as diverse as we were pre Champion System if everyone hits max? Or are you saying there was no build diversity pre CS?

Yep! That's my point @nimander99. Eventually we will reach a point where a good chunk of players will be at CP max. Those players, when comparing themselves to other players who have also reached max CP, will experience a negation effect. So at that point the entire Champion System is moot.

Well... not compared to those who are NOT at max. Up and coming players will be treated to a crazy power gap between them and I think that eventually ESO end game will pretty much just be the min/maxer community running trains of pain on anyone who isn't at max CPs and "casuals" will see CPs as this mountain that is too much of a chore to climb.

I think the champion system, at its core, is pretty flawed. This suggestion is a way to change the system to something that is more fair for everyone and creates a more diverse gaming landscape in the long term.

See this is where I think you are mistaken, the CS isn't flawed... it freaking BRILLIANT! I mean for me, there is nothing that makes me quit an mmo faster than hitting level cap. Now I have mini levels to grind out for a long time... and eventually it will be rendered "moot" as you said, while giving some cool passives, its a pretty smart idea imho.

Edit: Plus it makes twinking fun

I think using the term "at it's core" was a mistake. I love the idea of mini-levels and continued progression, which is really the "core" of the champion system. I guess the best way to represent my feeling is that I think the champion system, at its resolution, is pretty flawed.

If they try to fix the homogenization by giving people more things to progress I think ZOS will just widen the power gap. Eventually ESO might get to a point where we have 2 groups of players.... those who have reached really high CP levels and players who have yet to reach level 50. Those who have yet to reach level 50 will likely get to level 50 and quit because the task of earning those CPS will simply be too daunting.

nimander99

Gidorick wrote: »

show previous quotes

nimander99 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

Skyforge has a fairly elegant catch up mechanic for Sparks. Basically it takes the top <x> amount of players and gives everyone a form of enlightenment until they reach that top <x> position then they earn sparks at the normal rate. It allows players vastly far behind to catch up relatively quickly.

As far as your idea for diversifying builds, well, wont we still be as diverse as we were pre Champion System if everyone hits max? Or are you saying there was no build diversity pre CS?

Yep! That's my point @nimander99. Eventually we will reach a point where a good chunk of players will be at CP max. Those players, when comparing themselves to other players who have also reached max CP, will experience a negation effect. So at that point the entire Champion System is moot.

Well... not compared to those who are NOT at max. Up and coming players will be treated to a crazy power gap between them and I think that eventually ESO end game will pretty much just be the min/maxer community running trains of pain on anyone who isn't at max CPs and "casuals" will see CPs as this mountain that is too much of a chore to climb.

I think the champion system, at its core, is pretty flawed. This suggestion is a way to change the system to something that is more fair for everyone and creates a more diverse gaming landscape in the long term.

See this is where I think you are mistaken, the CS isn't flawed... it freaking BRILLIANT! I mean for me, there is nothing that makes me quit an mmo faster than hitting level cap. Now I have mini levels to grind out for a long time... and eventually it will be rendered "moot" as you said, while giving some cool passives, its a pretty smart idea imho.

Edit: Plus it makes twinking fun

I think using the term "at it's core" was a mistake. I love the idea of mini-levels and continued progression, which is really the "core" of the champion system. I guess the best way to represent my feeling is that I think the champion system, at its resolution, is pretty flawed.

If they try to fix the homogenization by giving people more things to progress I think ZOS will just widen the power gap. Eventually ESO might get to a point where we have 2 groups of players.... those who have reached really high CP levels and players who have yet to reach level 50. Those who have yet to reach level 50 will likely get to level 50 and quit because the task of earning those CPS will simply be too daunting.

Yeah, the power creep is def a valid concern... one that every mmo faces in one form or another. I am very interested to see how the mythological VR removal deals with the current power creep. I don't see how they can do it, but, hey, they are making the big bucks to figure this out so I'm sure it will go off w/o a hitch

Gidorick

That was part of my thought process behind adding the CP Burn concept @nimander99. The slotting would deal with the power gap and homogenization and the CP burn would create a perpetual mechanic.

I suspect that many players would feel similarly to @TheShadowScout, not liking the idea of loosing their CPs. Once you give a player a thing... taking that thing away would only upset them.

An alteration to the concept would be to treat the slots as overcharge slots. Keep all stars active and allow players to place stars that have 100 CP in those slots. This would allow these stars to have up to 150CP. The additional 50CP would burn off over time so that the overcharge isn't permanent and players can choose whether or not to partake in this mechanic. Doing so would consume CPs.

I wouldn't personally care for this overcharging since, as I've said before, a part of the issue is the power gap that is steadily widening. Of course their cap will address this issue, but will require regular update and maintenance... so that's going to be fun for everyone... I guess.

Another possible change to this concept: What if instead of just having one star from each constellation slotted we are allowed to slot ANY 9 stars. That way players can make really specialized and focused builds.

TheShadowScout

I still think the whole concept of "burning CP" is a bad idea... no matter how one were to dress it up. Consuming hard-earned cp in any way just would rub me wrong, and poison a lot of my enjoyment from ESO.

...picking a limited number of starts for extra bonus might be a better thing...

Personally, the best notion I take from this whole thing would be give nine "slots" for overcharging stars, let the people pick which nine they want to spend extra cp on, and go with that.

Or perhaps even better, as I mentioned, sub-stars (comets?) for existing stars, that give an additional but more specific bonus... and where one would have to choose one of several existing options (a bit like morphs, but not changing the basic star, just providing one out of several "extra-specific overcharge" options). Those could unlock only after having spent a certain amount in the main star...
Like... spend 50 c-points in "Elemental Expert" buying bonus to ALL elemental damage, and the sub-categories "Fire Expert - Shock Expert - Ice Expert" unlock, pick one and spend more there for an additional damage bonus to that type only...

Another idea to make people spend their c-points in different ways once they start getting close to the end of the champion system and homogenization might be the cp-score passives... like "+12 critical rating at 30 points in the ritual" - might be that they could be improved as well through c-points? As in, unlocked at -amount spent- and then you can put in extra to raise the bonus you get...

Those two ideas alone could easily triple the champion system in terms of space to spend c-points....

Although, seeing how I right now at am 301 c-points with my casual playstyle... there's a lot time to come before I can see myself getting to that point in the champion system. But still, its worth some consideration...

nimander99

I think I said this in another thread yesterday @Gidorick but the simplest solution is to just have a campaign that disables CP's then the devs don't have to "steal" earned CP's from players or cap em. I honestly don't see why they won't just do this... seems like the least invasive of all options.

Gidorick

@Jar_Ek. I just re-read your comments and I am coming around to the idea that the CP Burn, as I've presented it, is flawed. If players aren't actively using their skills then perhaps their CPs shouldn't burn away. If the CP burn could be dependent on time in combat instead of time in-game I think we might have a solution to wasted CPs.

The other options for CP Burn to be dependent on:

• damage dealt
• damage taken
• deaths
• xp earned

Basing it on XP earned would be weird since CP gain is based on XP earned.

Time spent in combat mode seems reasonable. That way just traveling, playing, RPing conversing, reading... everything BUT combat wouldn't burn CPs.... I think I'll add that to the original idea.

I still like the idea that CPs are a resource that is consumed simply because it would make the Champion System something that is perpetually earned and maintained.