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Allow stamina regeneration while blocking
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SeptimusDova✭✭✭✭✭
✭I dont think we may be getting to many shards
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/201391/templars-boycot-healing#latest0 -
Anazasi✭✭✭✭✭
✭It would have been easier to make it so you can't block cast. Would have fixed it all without messing with regens3 -
SeptimusDova✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes sir it would have. I see lag as a very important correlation that is going to make it aggravating. Now to go park my healer at a way-shrine and boycott.0 -
No more stam regen while blocking paired with no more 15% ww regen (unless you sacrifice ur ults) sux for pve tanks.And the only solution is a new armor set? so now every trank have to use that set? what a joke of a change.6 -
tpanisiakb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Lol, this change is incredible. I'm going to keep playing on the PTS and hope I hit something, but the very fact that I have to change my build so significantly to make PvE content somewhat less embarrassing is downright demeaning. You don't make a game more challenging by crippling an essential part to the MMO trifecta.
As it is right now if this change goes live I won't play. Not because I am taking a stance against ZoS or woe is me and boo hoo, but because the ONE THING I like to do in MMOs (which is to TANK PvE content) is not at all fun at this point. Which is ironic, considering ZOS made this change to make content more challenging and interactive. If you call staring at your stamina bar and popping stamina pots and ultimates on a specific rotation "fun" then I don't know what's wrong with you. I'm finding myself using less abilities in an attempt to reserve my magicka / stamina for vital moments.
BTW, 5% of stamina when you activate an Earthen Heart ability still doesn't give you back enough stamina to make DK tanking a game changer. The ONLY thing that's worth it is running Molten Armor for the resource return and damage cap.
Considering how this game prides itself on playing how you want, this entire patch is doing nothing but encouraging cookie cutter specs. We'll find a way to overcome the abysmal nightmare which is PvE tanking soon enough, but it will be found in precise specs and gear.
As it is now your tank cannot make a single mistake or it may cost your team a successful run. So GL to everyone whose going to be running with PUG DPS who think CC'ing mobs is dumb, or PUG non-Templar healers, GL to people with high latency, and GL to any tank trying to selectively target the heavy hitters in a crowd of 5+ adds, WHILE trying to interrupt other mobs.
ZOS, no, pls. Do anything but this, you've turned tanks into a pathetic meatbags once their shields are down and have given us nothing to compensate for this change. If you thought finding a tank was difficult for PUGs on live, it's probably going to get a hell of a lot worse once IC drops.
And for anyone about to L2P me, please! I encourage it. I've begged people to give me tips to I can hone my tank, but I have found no one answering those retorts. I have no problems swallowing my pride and accepting help from these know-it-alls, but the caveat is I need to be able to change my spec, my gear, rotation within my monetary power. Telling me to drop 500K gold on expensive gear is not the solution.16 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »Lol, this change is incredible. I'm going to keep playing on the PTS and hope I hit something, but the very fact that I have to change my build so significantly to make PvE content somewhat less embarrassing is downright demeaning. You don't make a game more challenging by crippling an essential part to the MMO trifecta.
As it is right now if this change goes live I won't play. Not because I am taking a stance against ZoS or woe is me and boo hoo, but because the ONE THING I like to do in MMOs (which is to TANK PvE content) is not at all fun at this point. Which is ironic, considering ZOS made this change to make content more challenging and interactive. If you call staring at your stamina bar and popping stamina pots and ultimates on a specific rotation "fun" then I don't know what's wrong with you. I'm finding myself using less abilities in an attempt to reserve my magicka / stamina for vital moments.
BTW, 5% of stamina when you activate an Earthen Heart ability still doesn't give you back enough stamina to make DK tanking a game changer. The ONLY thing that's worth it is running Molten Armor for the resource return and damage cap.
Considering how this game prides itself on playing how you want, this entire patch is doing nothing but encouraging cookie cutter specs. We'll find a way to overcome the abysmal nightmare which is PvE tanking soon enough, but it will be found in precise specs and gear.
As it is now your tank cannot make a single mistake or it may cost your team a successful run. So GL to everyone whose going to be running with PUG DPS who think CC'ing mobs is dumb, or PUG non-Templar healers, GL to people with high latency, and GL to any tank trying to selectively target the heavy hitters in a crowd of 5+ adds, WHILE trying to interrupt other mobs.
ZOS, no, pls. Do anything but this, you've turned tanks into a pathetic meatbags once their shields are down and have given us nothing to compensate for this change. If you thought finding a tank was difficult for PUGs on live, it's probably going to get a hell of a lot worse once IC drops.
And for anyone about to L2P me, please! I encourage it. I've begged people to give me tips to I can hone my tank, but I have found no one answering those retorts. I have no problems swallowing my pride and accepting help from these know-it-alls, but the caveat is I need to be able to change my spec, my gear, rotation within my monetary power. Telling me to drop 500K gold on expensive gear is not the solution.
Spot on5 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximusDargus wrote: »
This is as far as "you can be anyone" goes. Tell people they can be healers in any way. Make them find out hard way that they are useless because ZOS nerfed stamina regen and every healer will now must have shards.
Not if it's a Nightblade tank. Nightblade tank doesn't need shards.
I'm just curious, why do you think NB Tank doesn't need shards?
Syphoning attacks + Caltrops + paths + sap.
All of the syphoning attack procs will keep you near full
Someone hasn't read the patch notes about SA or Caltrops...
@Aerathnor
It isn't considered a melee attack however caltrops still procs syphoning attacks as the proc is considered "All attacks". I tested it. Maybe you should too before making ignorant comments such as yours?
If you can't keep an ability active every 10 seconds then you don't deserve to be playing challenging content and succeeding at it. It's not my fault that you can't create a build that adapts to changes. 0 -
Leonis✭✭I think every thing will be OK with a good group. But if you don't have a good group, no good dps, maybe no templar, it'll be really difficult.
On live, veteran dungeon are really easy, i don't care since there are some more challenging contents.
vDSA is easy with a good group. With a not so good group, we can already have some stamina issue since the adds don't die and you can have a lot of them on you. I don't like telling myself that i need to farm to have a lot of potion, i don't have enough time for that.
Thus, if you have no stamina regeneration while blocking, i think i'll stop taunting all the adds if they don't die fast enough and in vDSA, that mean dps, healer will die if they don't know how to survive (i don't care how : shield, kiting, cc, ...).
It's not a problem with tanks, this change means that all the players will need to know how to play really well.
Maybe i'll stop using a DK to tank and switch to a NB, using calltrop, leaching strike... Maybe i'll stop tanking if i think the group is not good enough and a lot of causual players with no good build/stuff will find no tank.2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sandmanninja wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »
Hmmmmm *** Cyrodiil.
I have a tank and a healer. You HAVE to block to tank vet dungeons and trials.
All I can think of, IF they keep this, is that the only healer ppl will want will be Templars.
Chuck the spear and give the tank some stam.
It's dumb.
Please. Don't break tanking outside of Cyrodiil.
It's not fair to PvE'ers. Cyrodiil is a small section of the map.
Split skills / 2 aspects - when you're flagged for PvP and when you aren't.
Easy.
Maybe it is dumb. Doesn't change the fact that the person I responded to is wrong saying tank DPS is too low in Cyrodiil.0 -
Aerathnor✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »
This is as far as "you can be anyone" goes. Tell people they can be healers in any way. Make them find out hard way that they are useless because ZOS nerfed stamina regen and every healer will now must have shards.
Not if it's a Nightblade tank. Nightblade tank doesn't need shards.
I'm just curious, why do you think NB Tank doesn't need shards?
Syphoning attacks + Caltrops + paths + sap.
All of the syphoning attack procs will keep you near full
Someone hasn't read the patch notes about SA or Caltrops...
@Aerathnor
It isn't considered a melee attack however caltrops still procs syphoning attacks as the proc is considered "All attacks". I tested it. Maybe you should too before making ignorant comments such as yours? If you can't keep an ability active every 10 seconds then you don't deserve to be playing challenging content and succeeding at it. It's not my fault that you can't create a build that adapts to changes.
@Lionxoft
I'm aware it still procs the all attacks portion. That vitriol though, I was simply saying that it's been changed and that it's not as simple or effective as it once was, and he made no mention of the changes. I'm not sure if the "all attacks" portion is still supposed to pop off or not, it currently does so I have solace in that it may be intended.
I'll roll with the punches and be fine, but chill, everyone is going to have to adapt and the way SA functions is a big change. I'll still push for a bit longer duration, if it doesn't happen I'll make it work.0 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭MaximusDargus wrote: »
This is as far as "you can be anyone" goes. Tell people they can be healers in any way. Make them find out hard way that they are useless because ZOS nerfed stamina regen and every healer will now must have shards.
Not if it's a Nightblade tank. Nightblade tank doesn't need shards.
I'm just curious, why do you think NB Tank doesn't need shards?
Syphoning attacks + Caltrops + paths + sap.
All of the syphoning attack procs will keep you near full
Someone hasn't read the patch notes about SA or Caltrops...
@Aerathnor
It isn't considered a melee attack however caltrops still procs syphoning attacks as the proc is considered "All attacks". I tested it. Maybe you should too before making ignorant comments such as yours? If you can't keep an ability active every 10 seconds then you don't deserve to be playing challenging content and succeeding at it. It's not my fault that you can't create a build that adapts to changes.
@Lionxoft
I'm aware it still procs the all attacks portion. That vitriol though, I was simply saying that it's been changed and that it's not as simple or effective as it once was, and he made no mention of the changes. I'm not sure if the "all attacks" portion is still supposed to pop off or not, it currently does so I have solace in that it may be intended.
I'll roll with the punches and be fine, but chill, everyone is going to have to adapt and the way SA functions is a big change. I'll still push for a bit longer duration, if it doesn't happen I'll make it work.Lionxoft wrote:Syphoning attacks + Caltrops + paths + sap.
All of the syphoning attack procs will keep you near fullAerathnor wrote:Someone hasn't read the patch notes about SA or Caltrops..
The patch notes were read. They just didn't work out the way you thought they did.
Do this next time.
0 -
tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »Sorry to sound blunt but um... Learn to tank ... Yea kinda a easy answer.
Sure, go ahead. Teach me how to tank in the PTS. I'm up for some suggestions. My experience was not having enough stamina holding the boss and 4 wraiths yesterday in vCoH on the PTS. I felt like I could use no skills unless they were magicka based because I had to do everything to conserve my stam for taunt refreshes and blocking, else I'd get chewed up real quick.
So, go ahead, give some tips and pointers.
So to me this seems like a strategy change for this fight (may not work for all fights) but the concept of vCoH with boss + 4 wraiths is NEVER needed, you can kill wraiths and NEVER have more than 2 alive, get boss just above HP where it goes to his sword, when he is summoning the 3rd and 4th wraiths you push him over the threshold and DPS quickly finish off the wraiths with AOE and you never had more than 3 targets on you.
The changes will need players to make adjustments, in playstyle, in strategies, in gear/builds, and in trials there will likely need group composition changes also. This is normal in MMOs, and it sucks to have to change how we play sometimes, but good players will adjust and post videos that will teach everyone strategies to deal with the changes.
The meta in MMOs for as long as I have player them (10+ yrs) has always been the difference between an average tank and a great tank is minor on a group, where as the difference between a average dps/healer and a great dps/healer is huge. This change may be the first time where the skills of a tank will have a large impact on group success, and this is something i am happy to see.
I may not 100% support the changes, but I can say about no one has actually played on PTS long enough to make the kind of adjustments that a change like this brings to fully make a ruling on how good/bad the change is for PvE tanking. I think it may be something that should have a heavy armor passive that resource X% of the regen when wearing 5+ heavy (should only help tanks and keep dps from perma blocking), and maybe over a few weeks reduce this down to say 25% or 50% incremental to let tanks have some adjustment time to the change rather than boom no stam regen and alot of frustration while perma block tanks adjust to reactive blocking (how I have always tanked)0 -
GuedzSoul Shrivenyou little boys cry a lot .
The solution was the best.
learn to play in pvp without permanent block .
invite a offtank for the group in pve .
and stop crying.0 -
GhostShadows✭✭✭you little boys cry a lot .
The solution was the best.
learn to play in pvp without permanent block .
invite a offtank for the group in pve .
and stop crying.
funny thing will be wen they nerf the game so much that pvp will be just slap the face of ea other, then me on my heavy armor will slap ur face on medium/light armor so hard that u will ask to nerf the "slaps"1 -
tpanisiakb16_ESO✭✭✭✭you little boys cry a lot .
The solution was the best.
learn to play in pvp without permanent block .
invite a offtank for the group in pve .
and stop crying.
Can you teach me to play in PvP and four man group dungeons PvE as a tank? Which sets should I be using now? How should my attribute point allocation go? Which monster set is best? Should I be running stamina / magicka food, or still keep regen drinks for those stam ticks?
@kogadrake: I appreciate the suggestions. One thing we didn't try (or ever, for that matter) is whether or not the wraiths can be CC'd. My group is certainly learning that ZOS doesn't want healers and tanks dishing out damage like we use to, and nor do they want group to devolve to AOE fests. With the small changes to rune prison (making it instant cast) and trash in the new dungeons being no joke, my team is learning that CC'ing trash is probably the safe way, going forward. Which is a little sad as we're really doing it to save the tank his or her stamina. CC healers + casters, single-target burn melee (which tanks taunt), etc.
I think what really bums me out is how weak and useless I, as a tank, feel when I have my shield lowered. There's a lot of light attacks that hit me for a great deal, even with armor boosting abilities.4 -
ABL✭✭I have a nightblade tank full defense.
No stamina regen when u block is idiot. Zenimax dont know how to do pvp.
What u want to do as tank when u cant block?
Even when u block with stamina regen u have few chance to resist.There is so much control they bypass blocking.
U are really a waste of time when they finish u at last than a real problem.
Tank are here to try to hold attention of player on them,they put all in defense and do no damage,they earn time for other class less tanky to do damage. They try to stop a run of zerg, to make a place where ppl can defend a position.
If u stop stamina regen when blocking ,your game become only a shoot them up.
Zenimax if u think a class do too much damage despite it can tank too, then nerf that class but not all class.
I am nightblade tank, i will not survive that nerf of blocking.Edited by ABL on July 30, 2015 3:57PMImages not allowed. You can use BBCode in your post. Sad forum.4 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Well in PvP with the right build you could already lock forever and that was only going to become more prevalent as people get more & more CPs. Hell, even with a light armor build you can block forever if you have enough CPs (just put CPs to block cost reduction and when you mana sustain is no longer an issue, use block cost reduction enchants on jewls). So as resource sustain became less and less trivial you could focus on getting your damage up while being behind block.
Like with Bolt Escape and roll-dodge, something needed to be done. But I thought from the start that completely removing regen was pretty harsh. Maybe a 50% reduction would be better.
Wrong. Nothing needed to be done. Who cares if someone was perma blocking? If they are built for that, meaning they are a tank, then you should have trouble killing them. So move to a new target first. That is the classes role. Take a lot of damage and put out little DPS.
Otherwise, give us DKs and Temps a escape. Our passives are designed for tanking. The fact that after all the nerfs that we have recieved that nb's and sorcs want more nerfs is beyond my understanding. This gMe is literally heading toward only nb's and sorc's. Have fun when that happens.
OMG the tanks aren't dying quick enough. NERF them ZOS!6 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭You guys really need to convince your templars to throw you spears from time to time. Geez. Easier than complaining
This. Lol
I have been refraining myself from saying this. But seriously. The people who think perma blocking is a problem are the ones who love to make comments saying L2P. You all need to L2P. Use this, caltrops, shades, etc.
But they won't. Biggest hypocrites in this game. They want max DPS and God forbid they slot something to drain stamina. I will start quoting them all from their previous L2P snipes on others.1 -
tpanisiakb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Darnathian wrote: »You guys really need to convince your templars to throw you spears from time to time. Geez. Easier than complaining
This. Lol
I have been refraining myself from saying this. But seriously. The people who think perma blocking is a problem are the ones who love to make comments saying L2P. You all need to L2P. Use this, caltrops, shades, etc.
But they won't. Biggest hypocrites in this game. They want max DPS and God forbid they slot something to drain stamina. I will start quoting them all from their previous L2P snipes on others.
So it's okay to assume tanks should not be running with anything short of a templar healer? And I need to be a nightblade tank to mitigate these drastic changes?
Wait a second, I thought I was playing a game "how I want to play".
Read this post here before you keep throwing around the "get shards get gud"likewow777 wrote: »I'm consistently surprised at the terrible suggestions that people have when it comes to defending this change.
Templar Shards
Yes, Templars have Spear Shards. Yes, it grants stamina to the person who synergizes with it. Yes, it will help a tank out. However, there has been pretty consistent outcry about the superiority of Templar healers compared to non-Templars. To that end, Restoration staff has been buffed and Templar heals has been nerfed. And yet, the suggestion here is to once again require Templar healers.
Of course, many would say, "Any Templar can throw shards, healer or not." True, any Templar can indeed use that skill. However, when I'm DPS-ing, I'm rarely ever in a place to be providing support to the group. And I'm relatively certain that you don't want me to stop killing that heavy sacrifice on the west in vDSA so I can run over to the tank and provide a shard.
Makes Tanking Better/Fun/Interesting/etc
I have one main problem with this argument. If you are actually bored during tanking, why not just drop block now? Why do you need this change? Maybe you are indeed doing this, I don't know, and you're more than welcome to have a go at me for assuming things. Still, why must the rest of us who don't want this change be inconvenienced by those who refuse to drop block on live, then complain that it's too boring? Maybe you can try it the next time you're staring down Mantikora.
Just Use <Insert DK/NB skill here> to Regain Stamina
I'm sorry, but if you hadn't heard, Templars are f**ing awesome tanks. What are we supposed to do about our stamina? And if you say Shards, I'm going to have an aneurism. Chugging pots works, though it's not exactly sustainable. Repentance works, though only if there are bodies. Engine Guardian might work, if you can get the right proc. Perhaps the next time I've got 4 axes on me, I'll pray to the RNG gods that the combination of these things works to keep me going.
For PvE, there is simply no argument that I can see where 0 stamina regeneration is somehow the answer tanks have been seeking. It's been said before, but when I tank, I'm never just standing around waiting for things to die with my shield in front of me. I'm constantly on the lookout for my team, panning the camera around, checking health levels, checking who's taking too much heat, reapplying taunts, CC-ing, roll dodging, bashing, etc. To me, it's one of the most dynamic and fun roles in the game, and I just can't see the point of affecting PvE tanks by crippling our most precious resource.Edited by tpanisiakb16_ESO on July 30, 2015 4:39PM1 -
Rinmaethodain✭✭✭✭✭
✭I let myself to post here an opinion of @Aluapfant because it insightful (and original topic suddenly is not accessible for some reason). The full credit for this review of "0 stamina regeneration" change on PTS goes to @Aluapfant
I just wanted to make sure his opinion wont be gone.Aluapfant wrote:Hello,
Yesterday this orc tank and some very patient and incredible guildies went to the PTS to give trials a shot.
Background: Im an experienced trial tank who has cleared HM trials as a tank and healer (my main is a temp healer). I used my pre-patch trials tank gear: hist bark, bloodspawn and footman.
Guild: Nightfighters - some of the best players in DC US server. Currently in live mode our dps pulls btw 15-23k dps on average for the manticora and our healers have +6 month trial experience.
Trials: HRC and SO regular mode (we could probably have completed HM but it was a pure tank stamina regeneration assessment and experience plus FUN>seriousness).
Summary: The lack of stamina regen is not a problem for short fights. It become semi annoying for longer boss fights. And for really long boss fights it can be a big issue in current tanking gear.
Breakdown
HRC: all the bosses in HRC were manageable and with the help of a few shards and some incredible dps (yes, you guys blow my socks off) I was more than competent to tank this trial to completion.
SO: the manticora (burn strat) was fairly easy with a small attribute adjustment. Again, shards did help. Same with trash and mini bosses. My main issue was the Serpent. Each one of his hits took chunks of my stamina away and the amount I could regen while he wasn't hitting me did not help at all. I kept running out of stamina and even died once due to this (how embarrassing!). So yes, lack of stamina regeneration did play a large role in increasing the difficulty of this boss fight.
AA: <<we did not do this trial>> BUT the thought of tanking 4x of those axes in my current gear. brrrrrr notyvmkthxbye
__________
Can end game hard core raid guild tanks survive this change in stamina regen during blocking?It might be annoying but yes I think so.
Can regular/causal/average tanks complete trials with this change? I highly doubt it unless there are some new amazing sets/build combinations that keep the current mitigation/armour up and additionally give you more stamina (WAY MORE). OR a way to not lose as much stamina while getting hit by a very angry, very strong and VERY BIG trial bosses! The thought of trying this without the best of the best healers and dps my above-average trial guild has to offer gives me the shivers.
So,
do i think making stamina regeneration stop while blocking a stupid change for trial PVE content? yes I do! It is extremely unnecessary, especially for the majority of our ESO player base. For the 1% elite it can be a fun change but catering to those few seems silly...
Were these changes implemented without caring [or at least considering] PVE end game content? Yes, in my opinion they were. Especially without considering the average, fun loving tank and trial group with semi decent dps and a sense of adventure
Can this be fixed? I really hope so. But then I ask. Why the hell break it in the 1st place!?!
Anyhow, I hope other experienced fulltime tanks will give a more positive review of these changes so that ESO tank trial future looks less bleak.
Sincerely,
Larkia (smexy orc tank)
PS. trials as a whole seem incredibly nerfed. our dps were being silly and having [funtimes] and still wrecked things like our pants were on fire! Furthermore, a 30+min regular HRC and SO run netted us a 60k and a 90k+ score. Not that I am complaining ;-)
4 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »I let myself to post here an opinion of @Aluapfant because it insightful (and original topic suddenly is not accessible for some reason). The full credit for this review of "0 stamina regeneration" change on PTS goes to @Aluapfant
I just wanted to make sure his opinion wont be gone.Aluapfant wrote:Hello,
Yesterday this orc tank and some very patient and incredible guildies went to the PTS to give trials a shot.
Background: Im an experienced trial tank who has cleared HM trials as a tank and healer (my main is a temp healer). I used my pre-patch trials tank gear: hist bark, bloodspawn and footman.
Guild: Nightfighters - some of the best players in DC US server. Currently in live mode our dps pulls btw 15-23k dps on average for the manticora and our healers have +6 month trial experience.
Trials: HRC and SO regular mode (we could probably have completed HM but it was a pure tank stamina regeneration assessment and experience plus FUN>seriousness).
Summary: The lack of stamina regen is not a problem for short fights. It become semi annoying for longer boss fights. And for really long boss fights it can be a big issue in current tanking gear.
Breakdown
HRC: all the bosses in HRC were manageable and with the help of a few shards and some incredible dps (yes, you guys blow my socks off) I was more than competent to tank this trial to completion.
SO: the manticora (burn strat) was fairly easy with a small attribute adjustment. Again, shards did help. Same with trash and mini bosses. My main issue was the Serpent. Each one of his hits took chunks of my stamina away and the amount I could regen while he wasn't hitting me did not help at all. I kept running out of stamina and even died once due to this (how embarrassing!). So yes, lack of stamina regeneration did play a large role in increasing the difficulty of this boss fight.
AA: <<we did not do this trial>> BUT the thought of tanking 4x of those axes in my current gear. brrrrrr notyvmkthxbye
__________
Can end game hard core raid guild tanks survive this change in stamina regen during blocking?It might be annoying but yes I think so.
Can regular/causal/average tanks complete trials with this change? I highly doubt it unless there are some new amazing sets/build combinations that keep the current mitigation/armour up and additionally give you more stamina (WAY MORE). OR a way to not lose as much stamina while getting hit by a very angry, very strong and VERY BIG trial bosses! The thought of trying this without the best of the best healers and dps my above-average trial guild has to offer gives me the shivers.
So,
do i think making stamina regeneration stop while blocking a stupid change for trial PVE content? yes I do! It is extremely unnecessary, especially for the majority of our ESO player base. For the 1% elite it can be a fun change but catering to those few seems silly...
Were these changes implemented without caring [or at least considering] PVE end game content? Yes, in my opinion they were. Especially without considering the average, fun loving tank and trial group with semi decent dps and a sense of adventure
Can this be fixed? I really hope so. But then I ask. Why the hell break it in the 1st place!?!
Anyhow, I hope other experienced fulltime tanks will give a more positive review of these changes so that ESO tank trial future looks less bleak.
Sincerely,
Larkia (smexy orc tank)
PS. trials as a whole seem incredibly nerfed. our dps were being silly and having [funtimes] and still wrecked things like our pants were on fire! Furthermore, a 30+min regular HRC and SO run netted us a 60k and a 90k+ score. Not that I am complaining ;-)
Thank you for posting this. I wasn't able to access the other thread either.Don't tank
"In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel1 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Tell that to whippy DKs. They apparently didn't get the memo.MaximusDargus wrote: »I 100% AGREE with the decision to make no stamina regen while blocking. when a stamina user can tank 8+ players for 4 to 5 mins by themselves theres a problem.
KEEP THE NO STAMINA REGEN WHILE BLOCKING PLEASE!!
Vatter forgots to mention that player who can tank multiple players in PVP is completly harmless because he focuses 100% on defence and cant push back to offence. The only thing that irks players like Vatter is the fact that their DPS PVP dedicated builds cant one shot real tanks just like they wish to do with every single player.
So instead of thinking they decide to all gank up on every single tank in ESO and support this unjustified nerf to stamina regeneration.
In the end, a compromise needs to be found. Some measure of stamina regeneration that will only benefit a tank in it's truest sense (damage soaker without offensive capabilities). @xaraan had a good idea in his feedback thread that could be built upon.Edited by Leandor on July 31, 2015 11:42AM0 -
tpanisiakb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Anyone know why that thread was moved / deleted? There was a lot of information to be shared in there. ....?
Anyway, thanks for reposting @MaximusDargus.
My own experience with tanking the new dungeons makes me feel pretty helpless. Getting in those few-and-far between heavy attacks taking a smack to the face is still rather difficult, and the stamina return is pretty small potatoes. I feel like ZOS and tanks need a compromise, but this is not the solution, especially with the "0 mistakes" mechanics in the new vet dungeons.
2 -
MaximusDargus wrote: »I let myself to post here an opinion of @Aluapfant because it insightful (and original topic suddenly is not accessible for some reason). The full credit for this review of "0 stamina regeneration" change on PTS goes to @Aluapfant
I just wanted to make sure his opinion wont be gone.Aluapfant wrote:Hello,
Yesterday this orc tank and some very patient and incredible guildies went to the PTS to give trials a shot.
Background: Im an experienced trial tank who has cleared HM trials as a tank and healer (my main is a temp healer). I used my pre-patch trials tank gear: hist bark, bloodspawn and footman.
Guild: Nightfighters - some of the best players in DC US server. Currently in live mode our dps pulls btw 15-23k dps on average for the manticora and our healers have +6 month trial experience.
Trials: HRC and SO regular mode (we could probably have completed HM but it was a pure tank stamina regeneration assessment and experience plus FUN>seriousness).
Summary: The lack of stamina regen is not a problem for short fights. It become semi annoying for longer boss fights. And for really long boss fights it can be a big issue in current tanking gear.
Breakdown
HRC: all the bosses in HRC were manageable and with the help of a few shards and some incredible dps (yes, you guys blow my socks off) I was more than competent to tank this trial to completion.
SO: the manticora (burn strat) was fairly easy with a small attribute adjustment. Again, shards did help. Same with trash and mini bosses. My main issue was the Serpent. Each one of his hits took chunks of my stamina away and the amount I could regen while he wasn't hitting me did not help at all. I kept running out of stamina and even died once due to this (how embarrassing!). So yes, lack of stamina regeneration did play a large role in increasing the difficulty of this boss fight.
AA: <<we did not do this trial>> BUT the thought of tanking 4x of those axes in my current gear. brrrrrr notyvmkthxbye
__________
Can end game hard core raid guild tanks survive this change in stamina regen during blocking?It might be annoying but yes I think so.
Can regular/causal/average tanks complete trials with this change? I highly doubt it unless there are some new amazing sets/build combinations that keep the current mitigation/armour up and additionally give you more stamina (WAY MORE). OR a way to not lose as much stamina while getting hit by a very angry, very strong and VERY BIG trial bosses! The thought of trying this without the best of the best healers and dps my above-average trial guild has to offer gives me the shivers.
So,
do i think making stamina regeneration stop while blocking a stupid change for trial PVE content? yes I do! It is extremely unnecessary, especially for the majority of our ESO player base. For the 1% elite it can be a fun change but catering to those few seems silly...
Were these changes implemented without caring [or at least considering] PVE end game content? Yes, in my opinion they were. Especially without considering the average, fun loving tank and trial group with semi decent dps and a sense of adventure
Can this be fixed? I really hope so. But then I ask. Why the hell break it in the 1st place!?!
Anyhow, I hope other experienced fulltime tanks will give a more positive review of these changes so that ESO tank trial future looks less bleak.
Sincerely,
Larkia (smexy orc tank)
PS. trials as a whole seem incredibly nerfed. our dps were being silly and having [funtimes] and still wrecked things like our pants were on fire! Furthermore, a 30+min regular HRC and SO run netted us a 60k and a 90k+ score. Not that I am complaining ;-)
So, if my memory of Aluapfant serves me well (it's been over a year since I was in Nightfighters) then this quote can be pretty much taken as gospel. HOWEVER I must say - there is NOTHING WRONG with making some content, uh, 'exclusive'. If this patch goes through and only 1% of tanks are able to do the trials hard mode and get all of the new dungeon achievements and even then only with the best 1% of DPS and healers. I hate to say it but that kind of makes sense to me.I actually have some reasonable (I think it's reasonable at least) logic for having that stance too.
ESO being an MMO has an extremely varied demographic. Trying to make content that pleases everyone would result in a crappy watered down version of an otherwise fantastic game. Not only that, but the game itself is also large enough to 'be two games at once.' Think of it like, most of the vet pledge dungeons and all of the normal scaled dungeons are basically skyrim - hit a certain level and it's face roll. Trials, normal DSA, vCoH, VCoA and the normal versions of the new dungeons are basically Skyrim with difficulty mods attached - much the same deal as vanilla skyrim but with an actual need to learn combat mechanics. Hardmode trials, VDSA, the vet versions of the new dungeons - basically Darksouls - you'll die a lot, no matter how far you progress it remains difficult, a lot of people avoid it for it's difficulty but just as many are attracted to it (with varying success rates) for the same reason.
Call me devil's advocate here, but I honestly feel that ESO has reached a point where it CAN have exclusive elite content that is fun and rewarding for the top 1% and still leave less skilled - more casual players with plenty to do. As more and more content is released, currently casual and easy content will still exist for leveling purposes, currently average content will become casual and elite content will become the middle ground. Everyone will eventually have no death hardmode speed runs of SO, it's just that it'll likely not be till SEVERAL large expansions from now and no one will really care any more because there will be a new challenge on the block that only has one group on the leader board boasting a whopping great big score of 20 that needs to be beaten.0 -
GhostShadows✭✭✭mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »I let myself to post here an opinion of @Aluapfant because it insightful (and original topic suddenly is not accessible for some reason). The full credit for this review of "0 stamina regeneration" change on PTS goes to @Aluapfant
I just wanted to make sure his opinion wont be gone.Aluapfant wrote:Hello,
Yesterday this orc tank and some very patient and incredible guildies went to the PTS to give trials a shot.
Background: Im an experienced trial tank who has cleared HM trials as a tank and healer (my main is a temp healer). I used my pre-patch trials tank gear: hist bark, bloodspawn and footman.
Guild: Nightfighters - some of the best players in DC US server. Currently in live mode our dps pulls btw 15-23k dps on average for the manticora and our healers have +6 month trial experience.
Trials: HRC and SO regular mode (we could probably have completed HM but it was a pure tank stamina regeneration assessment and experience plus FUN>seriousness).
Summary: The lack of stamina regen is not a problem for short fights. It become semi annoying for longer boss fights. And for really long boss fights it can be a big issue in current tanking gear.
Breakdown
HRC: all the bosses in HRC were manageable and with the help of a few shards and some incredible dps (yes, you guys blow my socks off) I was more than competent to tank this trial to completion.
SO: the manticora (burn strat) was fairly easy with a small attribute adjustment. Again, shards did help. Same with trash and mini bosses. My main issue was the Serpent. Each one of his hits took chunks of my stamina away and the amount I could regen while he wasn't hitting me did not help at all. I kept running out of stamina and even died once due to this (how embarrassing!). So yes, lack of stamina regeneration did play a large role in increasing the difficulty of this boss fight.
AA: <<we did not do this trial>> BUT the thought of tanking 4x of those axes in my current gear. brrrrrr notyvmkthxbye
__________
Can end game hard core raid guild tanks survive this change in stamina regen during blocking?It might be annoying but yes I think so.
Can regular/causal/average tanks complete trials with this change? I highly doubt it unless there are some new amazing sets/build combinations that keep the current mitigation/armour up and additionally give you more stamina (WAY MORE). OR a way to not lose as much stamina while getting hit by a very angry, very strong and VERY BIG trial bosses! The thought of trying this without the best of the best healers and dps my above-average trial guild has to offer gives me the shivers.
So,
do i think making stamina regeneration stop while blocking a stupid change for trial PVE content? yes I do! It is extremely unnecessary, especially for the majority of our ESO player base. For the 1% elite it can be a fun change but catering to those few seems silly...
Were these changes implemented without caring [or at least considering] PVE end game content? Yes, in my opinion they were. Especially without considering the average, fun loving tank and trial group with semi decent dps and a sense of adventure
Can this be fixed? I really hope so. But then I ask. Why the hell break it in the 1st place!?!
Anyhow, I hope other experienced fulltime tanks will give a more positive review of these changes so that ESO tank trial future looks less bleak.
Sincerely,
Larkia (smexy orc tank)
PS. trials as a whole seem incredibly nerfed. our dps were being silly and having [funtimes] and still wrecked things like our pants were on fire! Furthermore, a 30+min regular HRC and SO run netted us a 60k and a 90k+ score. Not that I am complaining ;-)
So, if my memory of Aluapfant serves me well (it's been over a year since I was in Nightfighters) then this quote can be pretty much taken as gospel. HOWEVER I must say - there is NOTHING WRONG with making some content, uh, 'exclusive'. If this patch goes through and only 1% of tanks are able to do the trials hard mode and get all of the new dungeon achievements and even then only with the best 1% of DPS and healers. I hate to say it but that kind of makes sense to me.I actually have some reasonable (I think it's reasonable at least) logic for having that stance too.
ESO being an MMO has an extremely varied demographic. Trying to make content that pleases everyone would result in a crappy watered down version of an otherwise fantastic game. Not only that, but the game itself is also large enough to 'be two games at once.' Think of it like, most of the vet pledge dungeons and all of the normal scaled dungeons are basically skyrim - hit a certain level and it's face roll. Trials, normal DSA, vCoH, VCoA and the normal versions of the new dungeons are basically Skyrim with difficulty mods attached - much the same deal as vanilla skyrim but with an actual need to learn combat mechanics. Hardmode trials, VDSA, the vet versions of the new dungeons - basically Darksouls - you'll die a lot, no matter how far you progress it remains difficult, a lot of people avoid it for it's difficulty but just as many are attracted to it (with varying success rates) for the same reason.
Call me devil's advocate here, but I honestly feel that ESO has reached a point where it CAN have exclusive elite content that is fun and rewarding for the top 1% and still leave less skilled - more casual players with plenty to do. As more and more content is released, currently casual and easy content will still exist for leveling purposes, currently average content will become casual and elite content will become the middle ground. Everyone will eventually have no death hardmode speed runs of SO, it's just that it'll likely not be till SEVERAL large expansions from now and no one will really care any more because there will be a new challenge on the block that only has one group on the leader board boasting a whopping great big score of 20 that needs to be beaten.
i agree with u that new content should be harder, for that 1% u said it!! problem is no1 talking here about new content, ppl talking about old crap content get harder because a nerf they did to ressources management just to make u spent more on crown store potions.
new content harder i m fine with it, my team will do it wen can able to do it, but here ppl talking about old content became harder.
i agree with u in almost all u said, just looks like u dont hunderstood wat other ppl was talking about.
i m fine if cant finish new IC dungeons right at 1st try, i m not ok if i cant finish other things that i have made before3 -
WolfingHour✭✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »
This is as far as "you can be anyone" goes. Tell people they can be healers in any way. Make them find out hard way that they are useless because ZOS nerfed stamina regen and every healer will now must have shards.
Not if it's a Nightblade tank. Nightblade tank doesn't need shards.
I'm just curious, why do you think NB Tank doesn't need shards?
Syphoning attacks + Caltrops + paths + sap.
All of the syphoning attack procs will keep you near full
I've tested my usual rotations with some tweaks in a nirncrux mine (granted, it was with a template) and this is nowhere near true. That fight in live is hard and very long, but not impossible, as it should be for a tank.
I'm waiting for the EU char copy to test my main, but I'm not holding my breath.0 -
Rinmaethodain✭✭✭✭✭
✭GhostShadows wrote: »mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »I let myself to post here an opinion of @Aluapfant because it insightful (and original topic suddenly is not accessible for some reason). The full credit for this review of "0 stamina regeneration" change on PTS goes to @Aluapfant
I just wanted to make sure his opinion wont be gone.Aluapfant wrote:Hello,
Yesterday this orc tank and some very patient and incredible guildies went to the PTS to give trials a shot.
Background: Im an experienced trial tank who has cleared HM trials as a tank and healer (my main is a temp healer). I used my pre-patch trials tank gear: hist bark, bloodspawn and footman.
Guild: Nightfighters - some of the best players in DC US server. Currently in live mode our dps pulls btw 15-23k dps on average for the manticora and our healers have +6 month trial experience.
Trials: HRC and SO regular mode (we could probably have completed HM but it was a pure tank stamina regeneration assessment and experience plus FUN>seriousness).
Summary: The lack of stamina regen is not a problem for short fights. It become semi annoying for longer boss fights. And for really long boss fights it can be a big issue in current tanking gear.
Breakdown
HRC: all the bosses in HRC were manageable and with the help of a few shards and some incredible dps (yes, you guys blow my socks off) I was more than competent to tank this trial to completion.
SO: the manticora (burn strat) was fairly easy with a small attribute adjustment. Again, shards did help. Same with trash and mini bosses. My main issue was the Serpent. Each one of his hits took chunks of my stamina away and the amount I could regen while he wasn't hitting me did not help at all. I kept running out of stamina and even died once due to this (how embarrassing!). So yes, lack of stamina regeneration did play a large role in increasing the difficulty of this boss fight.
AA: <<we did not do this trial>> BUT the thought of tanking 4x of those axes in my current gear. brrrrrr notyvmkthxbye
__________
Can end game hard core raid guild tanks survive this change in stamina regen during blocking?It might be annoying but yes I think so.
Can regular/causal/average tanks complete trials with this change? I highly doubt it unless there are some new amazing sets/build combinations that keep the current mitigation/armour up and additionally give you more stamina (WAY MORE). OR a way to not lose as much stamina while getting hit by a very angry, very strong and VERY BIG trial bosses! The thought of trying this without the best of the best healers and dps my above-average trial guild has to offer gives me the shivers.
So,
do i think making stamina regeneration stop while blocking a stupid change for trial PVE content? yes I do! It is extremely unnecessary, especially for the majority of our ESO player base. For the 1% elite it can be a fun change but catering to those few seems silly...
Were these changes implemented without caring [or at least considering] PVE end game content? Yes, in my opinion they were. Especially without considering the average, fun loving tank and trial group with semi decent dps and a sense of adventure
Can this be fixed? I really hope so. But then I ask. Why the hell break it in the 1st place!?!
Anyhow, I hope other experienced fulltime tanks will give a more positive review of these changes so that ESO tank trial future looks less bleak.
Sincerely,
Larkia (smexy orc tank)
PS. trials as a whole seem incredibly nerfed. our dps were being silly and having [funtimes] and still wrecked things like our pants were on fire! Furthermore, a 30+min regular HRC and SO run netted us a 60k and a 90k+ score. Not that I am complaining ;-)
So, if my memory of Aluapfant serves me well (it's been over a year since I was in Nightfighters) then this quote can be pretty much taken as gospel. HOWEVER I must say - there is NOTHING WRONG with making some content, uh, 'exclusive'. If this patch goes through and only 1% of tanks are able to do the trials hard mode and get all of the new dungeon achievements and even then only with the best 1% of DPS and healers. I hate to say it but that kind of makes sense to me.I actually have some reasonable (I think it's reasonable at least) logic for having that stance too.
ESO being an MMO has an extremely varied demographic. Trying to make content that pleases everyone would result in a crappy watered down version of an otherwise fantastic game. Not only that, but the game itself is also large enough to 'be two games at once.' Think of it like, most of the vet pledge dungeons and all of the normal scaled dungeons are basically skyrim - hit a certain level and it's face roll. Trials, normal DSA, vCoH, VCoA and the normal versions of the new dungeons are basically Skyrim with difficulty mods attached - much the same deal as vanilla skyrim but with an actual need to learn combat mechanics. Hardmode trials, VDSA, the vet versions of the new dungeons - basically Darksouls - you'll die a lot, no matter how far you progress it remains difficult, a lot of people avoid it for it's difficulty but just as many are attracted to it (with varying success rates) for the same reason.
Call me devil's advocate here, but I honestly feel that ESO has reached a point where it CAN have exclusive elite content that is fun and rewarding for the top 1% and still leave less skilled - more casual players with plenty to do. As more and more content is released, currently casual and easy content will still exist for leveling purposes, currently average content will become casual and elite content will become the middle ground. Everyone will eventually have no death hardmode speed runs of SO, it's just that it'll likely not be till SEVERAL large expansions from now and no one will really care any more because there will be a new challenge on the block that only has one group on the leader board boasting a whopping great big score of 20 that needs to be beaten.
i agree with u that new content should be harder, for that 1% u said it!! problem is no1 talking here about new content, ppl talking about old crap content get harder because a nerf they did to ressources management just to make u spent more on crown store potions.
new content harder i m fine with it, my team will do it wen can able to do it, but here ppl talking about old content became harder.
i agree with u in almost all u said, just looks like u dont hunderstood wat other ppl was talking about.
i m fine if cant finish new IC dungeons right at 1st try, i m not ok if i cant finish other things that i have made before
Exactly this.
People want hard and not 'boring' gameplay? People should ask ZOS for engaging and difficult new content.
Not advocate for unjustified nerfs that will make all current content difficult. Too bad that when that 1% asks for that, they ignore a whole playerbase of new players who didnt spent months and years on grinding CP and getting best gear/cookie cutter builds.
0 stamina regen will affect every tank in ESO, there is no problem with making new content hard.
there is PROBLEM when devs listen to 1% of blase elite, gross on CP and best gear who will advocate for changes to which "they will adapt" ignoring the fact that beside their own faces, there is 99% of community left.3 -
WolfingHour✭✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »GhostShadows wrote: »mousekime111rwb17_ESO wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »I let myself to post here an opinion of @Aluapfant because it insightful (and original topic suddenly is not accessible for some reason). The full credit for this review of "0 stamina regeneration" change on PTS goes to @Aluapfant
I just wanted to make sure his opinion wont be gone.Aluapfant wrote:Hello,
Yesterday this orc tank and some very patient and incredible guildies went to the PTS to give trials a shot.
Background: Im an experienced trial tank who has cleared HM trials as a tank and healer (my main is a temp healer). I used my pre-patch trials tank gear: hist bark, bloodspawn and footman.
Guild: Nightfighters - some of the best players in DC US server. Currently in live mode our dps pulls btw 15-23k dps on average for the manticora and our healers have +6 month trial experience.
Trials: HRC and SO regular mode (we could probably have completed HM but it was a pure tank stamina regeneration assessment and experience plus FUN>seriousness).
Summary: The lack of stamina regen is not a problem for short fights. It become semi annoying for longer boss fights. And for really long boss fights it can be a big issue in current tanking gear.
Breakdown
HRC: all the bosses in HRC were manageable and with the help of a few shards and some incredible dps (yes, you guys blow my socks off) I was more than competent to tank this trial to completion.
SO: the manticora (burn strat) was fairly easy with a small attribute adjustment. Again, shards did help. Same with trash and mini bosses. My main issue was the Serpent. Each one of his hits took chunks of my stamina away and the amount I could regen while he wasn't hitting me did not help at all. I kept running out of stamina and even died once due to this (how embarrassing!). So yes, lack of stamina regeneration did play a large role in increasing the difficulty of this boss fight.
AA: <<we did not do this trial>> BUT the thought of tanking 4x of those axes in my current gear. brrrrrr notyvmkthxbye
__________
Can end game hard core raid guild tanks survive this change in stamina regen during blocking?It might be annoying but yes I think so.
Can regular/causal/average tanks complete trials with this change? I highly doubt it unless there are some new amazing sets/build combinations that keep the current mitigation/armour up and additionally give you more stamina (WAY MORE). OR a way to not lose as much stamina while getting hit by a very angry, very strong and VERY BIG trial bosses! The thought of trying this without the best of the best healers and dps my above-average trial guild has to offer gives me the shivers.
So,
do i think making stamina regeneration stop while blocking a stupid change for trial PVE content? yes I do! It is extremely unnecessary, especially for the majority of our ESO player base. For the 1% elite it can be a fun change but catering to those few seems silly...
Were these changes implemented without caring [or at least considering] PVE end game content? Yes, in my opinion they were. Especially without considering the average, fun loving tank and trial group with semi decent dps and a sense of adventure
Can this be fixed? I really hope so. But then I ask. Why the hell break it in the 1st place!?!
Anyhow, I hope other experienced fulltime tanks will give a more positive review of these changes so that ESO tank trial future looks less bleak.
Sincerely,
Larkia (smexy orc tank)
PS. trials as a whole seem incredibly nerfed. our dps were being silly and having [funtimes] and still wrecked things like our pants were on fire! Furthermore, a 30+min regular HRC and SO run netted us a 60k and a 90k+ score. Not that I am complaining ;-)
So, if my memory of Aluapfant serves me well (it's been over a year since I was in Nightfighters) then this quote can be pretty much taken as gospel. HOWEVER I must say - there is NOTHING WRONG with making some content, uh, 'exclusive'. If this patch goes through and only 1% of tanks are able to do the trials hard mode and get all of the new dungeon achievements and even then only with the best 1% of DPS and healers. I hate to say it but that kind of makes sense to me.I actually have some reasonable (I think it's reasonable at least) logic for having that stance too.
ESO being an MMO has an extremely varied demographic. Trying to make content that pleases everyone would result in a crappy watered down version of an otherwise fantastic game. Not only that, but the game itself is also large enough to 'be two games at once.' Think of it like, most of the vet pledge dungeons and all of the normal scaled dungeons are basically skyrim - hit a certain level and it's face roll. Trials, normal DSA, vCoH, VCoA and the normal versions of the new dungeons are basically Skyrim with difficulty mods attached - much the same deal as vanilla skyrim but with an actual need to learn combat mechanics. Hardmode trials, VDSA, the vet versions of the new dungeons - basically Darksouls - you'll die a lot, no matter how far you progress it remains difficult, a lot of people avoid it for it's difficulty but just as many are attracted to it (with varying success rates) for the same reason.
Call me devil's advocate here, but I honestly feel that ESO has reached a point where it CAN have exclusive elite content that is fun and rewarding for the top 1% and still leave less skilled - more casual players with plenty to do. As more and more content is released, currently casual and easy content will still exist for leveling purposes, currently average content will become casual and elite content will become the middle ground. Everyone will eventually have no death hardmode speed runs of SO, it's just that it'll likely not be till SEVERAL large expansions from now and no one will really care any more because there will be a new challenge on the block that only has one group on the leader board boasting a whopping great big score of 20 that needs to be beaten.
i agree with u that new content should be harder, for that 1% u said it!! problem is no1 talking here about new content, ppl talking about old crap content get harder because a nerf they did to ressources management just to make u spent more on crown store potions.
new content harder i m fine with it, my team will do it wen can able to do it, but here ppl talking about old content became harder.
i agree with u in almost all u said, just looks like u dont hunderstood wat other ppl was talking about.
i m fine if cant finish new IC dungeons right at 1st try, i m not ok if i cant finish other things that i have made before
Exactly this.
People want hard and not 'boring' gameplay? People should ask ZOS for engaging and difficult new content.
Not advocate for unjustified nerfs that will make all current content difficult. Too bad that when that 1% asks for that, they ignore a whole playerbase of new players who didnt spent months and years on grinding CP and getting best gear/cookie cutter builds.
0 stamina regen will affect every tank in ESO, there is no problem with making new content hard.
there is PROBLEM when devs listen to 1% of blase elite, gross on CP and best gear who will advocate for changes to which "they will adapt" ignoring the fact that beside their own faces, there is 99% of community left.
Unfortunately, ZOS has come a long way from the days of silly game systems that are a crapshoot wrapped as new content (hello undaunted gear, hello glass armor), but only for the worst.
And the amount of people, jaded by content starvation or by some ego trip that only harder is better ( as if this was like learning to do brain surgery), that lap this up as the best thing ever is just amazing.1 -
Timeetyo✭✭likewow777 wrote: »I'm consistently surprised at the terrible suggestions that people have when it comes to defending this change.
Templar Shards
Yes, Templars have Spear Shards. Yes, it grants stamina to the person who synergizes with it. Yes, it will help a tank out. However, there has been pretty consistent outcry about the superiority of Templar healers compared to non-Templars. To that end, Restoration staff has been buffed and Templar heals has been nerfed. And yet, the suggestion here is to once again require Templar healers.
Of course, many would say, "Any Templar can throw shards, healer or not." True, any Templar can indeed use that skill. However, when I'm DPS-ing, I'm rarely ever in a place to be providing support to the group. And I'm relatively certain that you don't want me to stop killing that heavy sacrifice on the west in vDSA so I can run over to the tank and provide a shard.
Makes Tanking Better/Fun/Interesting/etc
I have one main problem with this argument. If you are actually bored during tanking, why not just drop block now? Why do you need this change? Maybe you are indeed doing this, I don't know, and you're more than welcome to have a go at me for assuming things. Still, why must the rest of us who don't want this change be inconvenienced by those who refuse to drop block on live, then complain that it's too boring? Maybe you can try it the next time you're staring down Mantikora.
Just Use <Insert DK/NB skill here> to Regain Stamina
I'm sorry, but if you hadn't heard, Templars are f**ing awesome tanks. What are we supposed to do about our stamina? And if you say Shards, I'm going to have an aneurism. Chugging pots works, though it's not exactly sustainable. Repentance works, though only if there are bodies. Engine Guardian might work, if you can get the right proc. Perhaps the next time I've got 4 axes on me, I'll pray to the RNG gods that the combination of these things works to keep me going.
For PvE, there is simply no argument that I can see where 0 stamina regeneration is somehow the answer tanks have been seeking. It's been said before, but when I tank, I'm never just standing around waiting for things to die with my shield in front of me. I'm constantly on the lookout for my team, panning the camera around, checking health levels, checking who's taking too much heat, reapplying taunts, CC-ing, roll dodging, bashing, etc. To me, it's one of the most dynamic and fun roles in the game, and I just can't see the point of affecting PvE tanks by crippling our most precious resource.
This couldn't be said better. To highlight a few points here:
1: As to tanking being boring that is just silly. A good tank in this game is so much more active than in most games. I am having a lot of fun with it and the better I get the more active I'm becoming. Sure you could taunt every 15s and hold block bit you are then just as useful as a dps who only mashes 1 button.
2: Since this is only a problem in pvp just make a fix that only affects pvp. For example make blocking player attacks cost much more Stam or even only have this take effect in pvp zones.
If this stays as is you will see tanks cope by dumping a ton of gear and cp into Stam and as a result not be able to do the other active things they do now which will make things more boring. That and a Templar healer will be required.4