Allow stamina regeneration while blocking

GhostShadows

Etharian wrote: »

GhostShadows wrote: »

Etharian wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

everytime i do wat u said, and stop block on bosses i get hit cause i dont blcok nk on time, is not a l2p problem is a server latency problem.
"Everyone on PTS ive talked to loves this change. " if i belived u talk with any1, i would tell u that ur talking with rong ppl

"everytime i do wat u said, and stop block on bosses i get hit cause i dont blcok nk on time"




... uhh... yeah that would be the definition of a learn to play issue. Yes there can be lag but there is a high chance that your just not that good in PVE and need to adjust.

theres a chance even biger that ur a pvp dps that think have a block breack on skill bar a waste of a slot and is hapy with this change, for me is a even biger l2p problem.
if i see boss skill few ms after he realy hit, i can block right on time in my pc and in server 1 ms late, that for u is a l2p problem, for me is a latency problem we dont need agree in everything, i also thnink ur a *** and for sure u dont agree!!!

Personofsecrets

Draehl wrote: »

Keep the no-regen-while-blocking bit, but give S&B + 5pc heavy armor some compensating stamina love so they can work it a little better. Tanks should still need to think about when to block more as it's better for the health of the game, but it shouldn't be quite so punitive to them specifically.

This is me thinking about blocking on Live.

1. Is there an enemy? check
2. Could it quickly kill me? check
3. Could it do unnecessary harm that would make the healer struggle? check
4. Okay, Block

This is me thinking about blocking on PTS

1. Is there an enemy? check
2. Could it quickly kill me? check
3. Could it do unnecessary harm that would make the healer struggle? check
4. Okay, Block
5. Oh wait, I can't and am dead now.

Draehl

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

Keep the no-regen-while-blocking bit, but give S&B + 5pc heavy armor some compensating stamina love so they can work it a little better. Tanks should still need to think about when to block more as it's better for the health of the game, but it shouldn't be quite so punitive to them specifically.

This is me thinking about blocking on Live.

1. Is there an enemy? check
2. Could it quickly kill me? check
3. Could it do unnecessary harm that would make the healer struggle? check
4. Okay, Block

This is me thinking about blocking on PTS

1. Is there an enemy? check
2. Could it quickly kill me? check
3. Could it do unnecessary harm that would make the healer struggle? check
4. Okay, Block
5. Oh wait, I can't and am dead now.

So maybe encounters need to be tweaked to include less one shot mechanics on tanks. Nobody said it's perfect, but the game rewarding you for mindlessly holding a button all game is silly. More thought needs to go into the process.

Personofsecrets

Changing the 5 piece

Draehl wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

Keep the no-regen-while-blocking bit, but give S&B + 5pc heavy armor some compensating stamina love so they can work it a little better. Tanks should still need to think about when to block more as it's better for the health of the game, but it shouldn't be quite so punitive to them specifically.

This is me thinking about blocking on Live.

1. Is there an enemy? check
2. Could it quickly kill me? check
3. Could it do unnecessary harm that would make the healer struggle? check
4. Okay, Block

This is me thinking about blocking on PTS

1. Is there an enemy? check
2. Could it quickly kill me? check
3. Could it do unnecessary harm that would make the healer struggle? check
4. Okay, Block
5. Oh wait, I can't and am dead now.

So maybe encounters need to be tweaked to include less one shot mechanics on tanks. Nobody said it's perfect, but the game rewarding you for mindlessly holding a button all game is silly. More thought needs to go into the process.

Well, I played last night in Veteran White Gold Tower. With the first major boss, The Adjudicator, I could literally hold heavy attack throughout many parts of the fight without suffering much harm. I quickly learned that the boss did little damage against the tank and I felt like unnecessary baggage. So while I doubt one-shot mechanics will ever leave the game, even if they did, then that doesn't necessarily make tanking more compelling.

Again, we do much more than 'mindlessly hold a button.' All of tanking can't be reduced down to holding one button. Even if the lead game designer says that tanks are "just holding block," it isn't true. More thought needs to go into that point of view.

Edit:

I would also like to add that the DK standard bearers boss fight featured me getting one shot after running out of stamina while tanking a mere 3 enemies. The one-shot mechanics were not taken out of the game despite the stamina regeneration nerf.

Additionally, and unrelated, the atronarch boss was bizarre as far as tanking was concerned. A clickable orb in the center of the room to get aggro? Really? I already have a button for that, it is a taunt.

cbjr73

Etharian wrote: »

It sounds like you need to L2P , being salty wont get you anywhere cause you cant perma block anymore. It was broken, they fixed it. Learn to work around it and play the game its supposed to be played and use your knoggin.

Get on PTS , Everyone says its fine. You can still regen a ton of stam without block and block when you actually need to and not just hold it down like a noob.

See, I fixed your problem.

Sigh another player who can't prioritize targets in pvp trying desperately to keep this change. You obviously we're mad that I offered you help.

First off, no one holds block while tanking in PvE. It's a myth fabricated by PvPers who are pissed they can't 1 shot people.

Second, if you comprehended anything I said and have ever run any PvE content then you would know that the Stam regen nerf does nothing to make PvE more challenging on tanks. Tanks are unnecessary for 90% of content anyhow because of overpowered dps.

I know tanking is still doable on the PTS. I have tanked the same old vet dungeons the same way as always. Snare, cc and watch mobs explode in seconds. The nerf really made it a lot more fun! /sarcasm

As I said. The nerf does nothing to address the real issues. Poor pvp target selection and overpowered dps. You cannot fix the first without a clinic. The second issue, however, is fixable.

Plaid13ub17_ESO

This change is just as bad as i expected it to be. It puts a severe limit on what tanks can do. 100% loss of stam regen is just way too far. Removing the ability for a tank to fight isnt fun for anyone except the dps players killing them in pvp.

Maybe adding a buff to the taunts in game could fix the pvp problem. Make it so when you block targets you have taunted you gain back stamina.

Or change it to 25%- 50% reduction in stam regen while blocking.

Right now this massive nerf favors DK and NB tanks and pushes templar and sorc tanks way down on the list of desired classes for tanks.

Every other role in the game can stack enough regen to never stop fighting or healing. Why should it be any different for tanks?

Why do tanks get punished for doing what the role is built to do? Healers dont get punished for healing dps dont get punished for doing damage why do tanks get punished for mitigating damage?

This nerf made no sense when it was first announced and it makes absolutely no sense now that its on the test server and we can see how bad it really is. It is not the end of the world for DK or NB tanks. and i have tested both. But my templar tank does suffer badly because of it and my sorc tank already had issues with stamina management to start with havnt no class abilty at all to refill or regen stam. Now with the change to the self healing on sorcs the sorc tank heals are far worse since they no longer trigger off dots.

Tanks are already the least played role by a long shot. Do we really need anything to make them even less popular? They already have no place in pvp since they do no real damage and anyone can out heal the low damage a true tank does. (talking real tanks here not dps in heavy armor with a shield that is a whole different problem!)

Personofsecrets

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

This change is just as bad as i expected it to be. It puts a severe limit on what tanks can do. 100% loss of stam regen is just way too far. Removing the ability for a tank to fight isnt fun for anyone except the dps players killing them in pvp.

Maybe adding a buff to the taunts in game could fix the pvp problem. Make it so when you block targets you have taunted you gain back stamina.

Or change it to 25%- 50% reduction in stam regen while blocking.

Right now this massive nerf favors DK and NB tanks and pushes templar and sorc tanks way down on the list of desired classes for tanks.

Every other role in the game can stack enough regen to never stop fighting or healing. Why should it be any different for tanks?

Why do tanks get punished for doing what the role is built to do? Healers dont get punished for healing dps dont get punished for doing damage why do tanks get punished for mitigating damage?

This nerf made no sense when it was first announced and it makes absolutely no sense now that its on the test server and we can see how bad it really is. It is not the end of the world for DK or NB tanks. and i have tested both. But my templar tank does suffer badly because of it and my sorc tank already had issues with stamina management to start with havnt no class abilty at all to refill or regen stam. Now with the change to the self healing on sorcs the sorc tank heals are far worse since they no longer trigger off dots.

Tanks are already the least played role by a long shot. Do we really need anything to make them even less popular? They already have no place in pvp since they do no real damage and anyone can out heal the low damage a true tank does. (talking real tanks here not dps in heavy armor with a shield that is a whole different problem!)

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

I think the above quite is true. I felt majorly gimped on the PTS, while using my PVE tanking gear, and playing as a tank. I do not feel gimped or overpowered on live

A. Are tanks really problematic in PVP or do they offer a cool and unique way of playing?
B. Are tanks really not going to be able to bring their PVE gear into PVP now due to it no longer being effective?

Play, such as Sypher's DK, is part of what got me interested in ESO PVP. Please don't invalidate that play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCK_D_nc7Lo

Vatter

I'll tell you what, you can have stamina regen while blocking back if ZOS completely removes block casting and ultimate regen while blocking from the game.

Thats the problem in cyrodiil. zergs have 5-6 dks that just rush in holding block the entire time and spamming whip and talons then when everyone is nice and rooted without stamina (because in the infinite wisdom of ZOS talons doesn't give cc immunity) they just dragon leap.

OR how about those dual wield NB's that follow the DK's into a crowd and hold block and spam steel tornado with mace impenetrable Completely ignoring your armor and doing 8k a hit.

I think NO STAMINA REGEN WHILE BLOCKING is amazing and really hope that sos keeps it.

PLEASE KEEP NO STAMINA REGEN WHILE BLOCKING!!!

tpanisiakb16_ESO

Draehl wrote: »

So maybe encounters need to be tweaked to include less one shot mechanics on tanks. Nobody said it's perfect, but the game rewarding you for mindlessly holding a button all game is silly. More thought needs to go into the process.

This argument for stamina regen I keep reading over and over again and it's clear to me you --and others -- have not played a tank or have not played on the PTS as a tank.

Right now, the ONLY THING TANKS CAN DO is hold block because they don't have enough stamina to roll-dodge, use other stamina requiring abilities, run, etc. because we're constantly stamina starved. If you think for half a second getting a heavy attack in is going to give us enough when paired against multiple enemies for several heavy-attack hitting moments you are so wrong. Stamina ALSO REGENS IN TICKS so when you drop your shield you are NOT GUARANTEED to get an instant regen stamina tick. TANKS ARE CONSTANTLY playing with RNGesus right now. Go taunt a couple of mobs and drop your shield and see how awesome your heavy armor is going to make you. Spoiler: it doesn't. It doesn't take long for a tank to die when being hit over and over again. At most he / she can take a couple of more smacks than your medium armor wearing buddy.

As of this moment, right now, on PTS is 100% more viable for me and my group to tackle trash packs with brawler, rally and vigor.

Let me state this again: Tanking on PTS has been reduced to ONLY dodging and flailing my pathetic sword around as much as I can. I am now a semi-transparent black blob with an enlarged heart that stand there holding block.

Draehl

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

Draehl wrote: »

So maybe encounters need to be tweaked to include less one shot mechanics on tanks. Nobody said it's perfect, but the game rewarding you for mindlessly holding a button all game is silly. More thought needs to go into the process.

This argument for stamina regen I keep reading over and over again and it's clear to me you --and others -- have not played a tank or have not played on the PTS as a tank.

Right now, the ONLY THING TANKS CAN DO is hold block because they don't have enough stamina to roll-dodge, use other stamina requiring abilities, run, etc. because we're constantly stamina starved. If you think for half a second getting a heavy attack in is going to give us enough when paired against multiple enemies for several heavy-attack hitting moments you are so wrong. Stamina ALSO REGENS IN TICKS so when you drop your shield you are NOT GUARANTEED to get an instant regen stamina tick. TANKS ARE CONSTANTLY playing with RNGesus right now. Go taunt a couple of mobs and drop your shield and see how awesome your heavy armor is going to make you. Spoiler: it doesn't. It doesn't take long for a tank to die when being hit over and over again. At most he / she can take a couple of more smacks than your medium armor wearing buddy.

As of this moment, right now, on PTS is 100% more viable for me and my group to tackle trash packs with brawler, rally and vigor.

Let me state this again: Tanking on PTS has been reduced to ONLY dodging and flailing my pathetic sword around as much as I can. I am now a semi-transparent black blob with an enlarged heart that stand there holding block.

So address those problems. Find an in game way to delineate someone as a "tank" so these other skills and actions can be used more reasonably. IE abilities cost lower resources, but you do less damage. Siphoning Attacks does this rather well. Perhaps making Defensive Posture a toggle, or allow the Taunt skills to apply a buff to the taunter causing them to deal less damage, but have lower resource costs.

Many tanks are making do, and again I'm not saying it's perfect, but players (and) Zenimax need to think outside of the box more instead of flailing wildly because something got changed and they don't like it.

Sykis

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Sykis wrote: »

A possible solution would be to keep zero regeneration while blocking and put another passive in sword and shield line. While having a sword and shield equipped, when you block an attack you get major stm recovery which allows increase stm recovery when you drop your block. Kind of a slight catchup mechanic between blocking while still having to block selectively because if you don't block something you won't get the buff. This will assist PVEers in sustaining their their stm between blocking and help prevent perms-blocking in PVP because opposing Characters can try and prevent you from gaining the buff by fearing you or stunning you so they can attack and you won't be able to just hold block because even with the buff, your stm will only regenerate when your block is down.

Hey @Sykis , I want to thank you for offering a solution. I too think that tanks should be offered an incentive for things, such as, attacking. That being said, there is many situations that are very bad for tanks if the don't block even for a split second, so I don't think that tanks should be forced into, eventually, not blocking. I have a couple things to show and I hope to convey with them why releasing block and, therefore, the stamina regeneration nerf is dangerous and shouldn't make it to live.



That is from just yesterday. I got shocked by chain lightning, was forced into not blocking, and died quickly as the result.

Watch this video starting from 2:20

https://youtu.be/ZcntMLJ8ir0?t=141

It is my understanding that the tank released block for an attack at the time they died.

Thank you for reading and I hope we can all come up with a change that incentivizes tanks to attack, doesn't force them into bad situations, and keeps them in balance with the damage mitigation change in PVP.

Just looking at what you posted this seems to be one of those times that would really hurt with the current nerf. Then it would seem that if the no stam while blocking is going to be the way forward then the change to support would have to come from some of the encounters that were built when this future nerf was not in affect. It is a very valid point to the case. And I also appreciate your constructive feedback over just bashing my idea thanks. I will look more into specific encounters and try to get more experience in the new dungeon encounters to see where the most critically affected aspects of this nerf comes into play. If ZOS is hell bent on this going into affect then it might be better to provide feedback from encounters that are most designed to cause critical failure because of the way they were designed under the older system.

Personofsecrets

Vatter wrote: »

I'll tell you what, you can have stamina regen while blocking back if ZOS completely removes block casting and ultimate regen while blocking from the game.

Thats the problem in cyrodiil. zergs have 5-6 dks that just rush in holding block the entire time and spamming whip and talons then when everyone is nice and rooted without stamina (because in the infinite wisdom of ZOS talons doesn't give cc immunity) they just dragon leap.

OR how about those dual wield NB's that follow the DK's into a crowd and hold block and spam steel tornado with mace impenetrable Completely ignoring your armor and doing 8k a hit.

I think NO STAMINA REGEN WHILE BLOCKING is amazing and really hope that sos keeps it.

PLEASE KEEP NO STAMINA REGEN WHILE BLOCKING!!!

I'm sorry about your frustration, but causing tanks this nerf is not going to stop you from dying to zergs. It is just going to cause more people frustration as they will be taxed twice for the same actions.

GhostShadows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNJmv8_vnYg

after test a lot of
Beer with helium devs decided tanks have to much stamina regen

DDuke

@Personofsecrets
You know, you could condense your posts to one instead of making three separate ones to reply me.


But the core of your posts seems to be this deep belief that tanks are supposed to be holding right mouse button & taunting the entire duration of the fight, and then doing whatever.

Well, this is no longer the case. You now have to use different abilities to augment your tanking, not your DPS or healing. Repentance, Helping Hands (passive), Siphoning Attacks etc...
One of the biggest errors I see tanks to in 1.7 (from the streams & videos I've seen) is that they still use abilities like Vigor, even when pretty much completely out of stamina.

I guess old habits die hard.


That's not to mention that many of the new boss mechanics etc in IC would be impossible if tanks could just taunt everything & hold right mouse button, and I'm certain future PvE content will be better thanks to this change.

P.S.
After seeing that latest screenshot you posted... You really should get more health, you're a "tank" after all. 17k hits should tickle, not kill you.

________________________________________________________________________________________

One thing though, just to provide constructive feedback:

I do wish there were more tanking abilities in this game, skills that would be purely defensive while not being heals or damage shields.

Personofsecrets

DDuke wrote: »

@Personofsecrets
You know, you could condense your posts to one instead of making three separate ones to reply me.


But the core of your posts seems to be this deep belief that tanks are supposed to be holding right mouse button & taunting the entire duration of the fight, and then doing whatever.

Well, this is no longer the case. You now have to use different abilities to augment your tanking, not your DPS or healing. Repentance, Helping Hands (passive), Siphoning Attacks etc...
One of the biggest errors I see tanks to in 1.7 (from the streams & videos I've seen) is that they still use abilities like Vigor, even when pretty much completely out of stamina.

I guess old habits die hard.


That's not to mention that many of the new boss mechanics etc in IC would be impossible if tanks could just taunt everything & hold right mouse button, and I'm certain future PvE content will be better thanks to this change.

P.S.
After seeing that latest screenshot you posted... You really should get more health, you're a "tank" after all. 17k hits should tickle, not kill you.

________________________________________________________________________________________

One thing though, just to provide constructive feedback:

I do wish there were more tanking abilities in this game, skills that would be purely defensive while not being heals or damage shields.

You are right! As a matter of fact, last night was stonefist, stonefist, stonefist, stonefist.

Thanks for helping making tank fun!

P.S.

My healer had been dead for 40 seconds. I'm the tank with the AA leader board spot. What about you?

DDuke

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

@Personofsecrets
You know, you could condense your posts to one instead of making three separate ones to reply me.


But the core of your posts seems to be this deep belief that tanks are supposed to be holding right mouse button & taunting the entire duration of the fight, and then doing whatever.

Well, this is no longer the case. You now have to use different abilities to augment your tanking, not your DPS or healing. Repentance, Helping Hands (passive), Siphoning Attacks etc...
One of the biggest errors I see tanks to in 1.7 (from the streams & videos I've seen) is that they still use abilities like Vigor, even when pretty much completely out of stamina.

I guess old habits die hard.


That's not to mention that many of the new boss mechanics etc in IC would be impossible if tanks could just taunt everything & hold right mouse button, and I'm certain future PvE content will be better thanks to this change.

P.S.
After seeing that latest screenshot you posted... You really should get more health, you're a "tank" after all. 17k hits should tickle, not kill you.

________________________________________________________________________________________

One thing though, just to provide constructive feedback:

I do wish there were more tanking abilities in this game, skills that would be purely defensive while not being heals or damage shields.

You are right! As a matter of fact, last night was stonefist, stonefist, stonefist, stonefist.

Thanks for helping making tank fun!

P.S.

My healer had been dead for 40 seconds. I'm the tank with the AA leader board spot. What about you?

You're welcome, though you should really direct your thanks to ZOS.
They're finally making some good changes (only took them a year to reach that point, but whatever)

Let me reiterate though: I still wish there were wider arsenal of tanking skills, so it isn't just stonefist, stonefist, stonefist, stonefist (I do hope you remembered to throw taunt in between).


If your healer had been dead for 40 seconds, then why are you complaining about dying? It isn't your fault in that situation. And why did you bring that death up in the first place? I'm perplexed.


Oh, and I also got AA leaderboard spot for this week. I'm glad some people still find that "impressive", when you can reach it without hardmode even

Let's hope they bring some quality raid with Orsinium, so we can get a "true" test of skill in the game

Personofsecrets

DDuke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

@Personofsecrets
You know, you could condense your posts to one instead of making three separate ones to reply me.


But the core of your posts seems to be this deep belief that tanks are supposed to be holding right mouse button & taunting the entire duration of the fight, and then doing whatever.

Well, this is no longer the case. You now have to use different abilities to augment your tanking, not your DPS or healing. Repentance, Helping Hands (passive), Siphoning Attacks etc...
One of the biggest errors I see tanks to in 1.7 (from the streams & videos I've seen) is that they still use abilities like Vigor, even when pretty much completely out of stamina.

I guess old habits die hard.


That's not to mention that many of the new boss mechanics etc in IC would be impossible if tanks could just taunt everything & hold right mouse button, and I'm certain future PvE content will be better thanks to this change.

P.S.
After seeing that latest screenshot you posted... You really should get more health, you're a "tank" after all. 17k hits should tickle, not kill you.

________________________________________________________________________________________

One thing though, just to provide constructive feedback:

I do wish there were more tanking abilities in this game, skills that would be purely defensive while not being heals or damage shields.

You are right! As a matter of fact, last night was stonefist, stonefist, stonefist, stonefist.

Thanks for helping making tank fun!

P.S.

My healer had been dead for 40 seconds. I'm the tank with the AA leader board spot. What about you?

You're welcome, though you should really direct your thanks to ZOS.
They're finally making some good changes (only took them a year to reach that point, but whatever)

Let me reiterate though: I still wish there were wider arsenal of tanking skills, so it isn't just stonefist, stonefist, stonefist, stonefist (I do hope you remembered to throw taunt in between).


If your healer had been dead for 40 seconds, then why are you complaining about dying? It isn't your fault in that situation. And why did you bring that death up in the first place? I'm perplexed.


Oh, and I also got AA leaderboard spot for this week. I'm glad some people still find that "impressive", when you can reach it without hardmode even

Let's hope they bring some quality raid with Orsinium, so we can get a "true" test of skill in the game

I'm not complaining about dying so don't change the subject and pretend I was.

That is an image directed toward a very specific post for the purpose of showing when a tank isn't blocking, even for a split second, that they can easily get spiked down. You also seem to be unaware about what I like to call RNG. Take a look at the hit that occurs right before the final slam. If you don't know why it is important, then don't make assumptions about the fight or what tanks should be doing - you were not there.

Whether the leader board is competitive or not is another story. But don't tell me how to do my job, especially when what I'm doing achieves results, and especially if you don't have experience achieving those results yourself. It is easy for one to push the boundaries of what everyone should be doing when that individual doesn't really know everyone is doing in the first place.

DDuke

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

@Personofsecrets
You know, you could condense your posts to one instead of making three separate ones to reply me.


But the core of your posts seems to be this deep belief that tanks are supposed to be holding right mouse button & taunting the entire duration of the fight, and then doing whatever.

Well, this is no longer the case. You now have to use different abilities to augment your tanking, not your DPS or healing. Repentance, Helping Hands (passive), Siphoning Attacks etc...
One of the biggest errors I see tanks to in 1.7 (from the streams & videos I've seen) is that they still use abilities like Vigor, even when pretty much completely out of stamina.

I guess old habits die hard.


That's not to mention that many of the new boss mechanics etc in IC would be impossible if tanks could just taunt everything & hold right mouse button, and I'm certain future PvE content will be better thanks to this change.

P.S.
After seeing that latest screenshot you posted... You really should get more health, you're a "tank" after all. 17k hits should tickle, not kill you.

________________________________________________________________________________________

One thing though, just to provide constructive feedback:

I do wish there were more tanking abilities in this game, skills that would be purely defensive while not being heals or damage shields.

You are right! As a matter of fact, last night was stonefist, stonefist, stonefist, stonefist.

Thanks for helping making tank fun!

P.S.

My healer had been dead for 40 seconds. I'm the tank with the AA leader board spot. What about you?

You're welcome, though you should really direct your thanks to ZOS.
They're finally making some good changes (only took them a year to reach that point, but whatever)

Let me reiterate though: I still wish there were wider arsenal of tanking skills, so it isn't just stonefist, stonefist, stonefist, stonefist (I do hope you remembered to throw taunt in between).


If your healer had been dead for 40 seconds, then why are you complaining about dying? It isn't your fault in that situation. And why did you bring that death up in the first place? I'm perplexed.


Oh, and I also got AA leaderboard spot for this week. I'm glad some people still find that "impressive", when you can reach it without hardmode even

Let's hope they bring some quality raid with Orsinium, so we can get a "true" test of skill in the game

I'm not complaining about dying so don't change the subject and pretend I was.

That is an image directed toward a very specific post for the purpose of showing when a tank isn't blocking, even for a split second, that they can easily get spiked down.

So you just conveniently leave out that your healer had been dead for 40 seconds. Right.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

You also seem to be unaware about what I like to call RNG. Take a look at the hit that occurs right before the final slam. If you don't know why it is important, then don't make assumptions about the fight or what tanks should be doing - you were not there.

31727 damage, if all of those happened to hit at the exact same time (what I like to call bad RNG). Still survivable by tanks that spec for tanking, not for dealing a little bit DPS or healing as well. Get 36k~ health and you will survive even bad RNG.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Whether the leader board is competitive or not is another story. But don't tell me how to do my job, especially when what I'm doing achieves results, and especially if you don't have experience achieving those results yourself. It is easy for one to push the boundaries of what everyone should be doing when that individual doesn't really know everyone is doing in the first place.

Who's saying I dont have experience achieving those results?
My first experiences are from last summer, 2014, when I was in a guild that got world 2nd (or 3rd) AA hardmode clear. That particular guild later broke down due to overall disappointing PvE experience.

And I know exactly what everyone is doing during our runs, that's part of being in one of the top 3 PvE guilds in the world.

Personofsecrets

DDuke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

@Personofsecrets
You know, you could condense your posts to one instead of making three separate ones to reply me.


But the core of your posts seems to be this deep belief that tanks are supposed to be holding right mouse button & taunting the entire duration of the fight, and then doing whatever.

Well, this is no longer the case. You now have to use different abilities to augment your tanking, not your DPS or healing. Repentance, Helping Hands (passive), Siphoning Attacks etc...
One of the biggest errors I see tanks to in 1.7 (from the streams & videos I've seen) is that they still use abilities like Vigor, even when pretty much completely out of stamina.

I guess old habits die hard.


That's not to mention that many of the new boss mechanics etc in IC would be impossible if tanks could just taunt everything & hold right mouse button, and I'm certain future PvE content will be better thanks to this change.

P.S.
After seeing that latest screenshot you posted... You really should get more health, you're a "tank" after all. 17k hits should tickle, not kill you.

________________________________________________________________________________________

One thing though, just to provide constructive feedback:

I do wish there were more tanking abilities in this game, skills that would be purely defensive while not being heals or damage shields.

You are right! As a matter of fact, last night was stonefist, stonefist, stonefist, stonefist.

Thanks for helping making tank fun!

P.S.

My healer had been dead for 40 seconds. I'm the tank with the AA leader board spot. What about you?

You're welcome, though you should really direct your thanks to ZOS.
They're finally making some good changes (only took them a year to reach that point, but whatever)

Let me reiterate though: I still wish there were wider arsenal of tanking skills, so it isn't just stonefist, stonefist, stonefist, stonefist (I do hope you remembered to throw taunt in between).


If your healer had been dead for 40 seconds, then why are you complaining about dying? It isn't your fault in that situation. And why did you bring that death up in the first place? I'm perplexed.


Oh, and I also got AA leaderboard spot for this week. I'm glad some people still find that "impressive", when you can reach it without hardmode even

Let's hope they bring some quality raid with Orsinium, so we can get a "true" test of skill in the game

I'm not complaining about dying so don't change the subject and pretend I was.

That is an image directed toward a very specific post for the purpose of showing when a tank isn't blocking, even for a split second, that they can easily get spiked down.

So you just conveniently leave out that your healer had been dead for 40 seconds. Right.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

You also seem to be unaware about what I like to call RNG. Take a look at the hit that occurs right before the final slam. If you don't know why it is important, then don't make assumptions about the fight or what tanks should be doing - you were not there.

31727 damage, if all of those happened to hit at the exact same time (what I like to call bad RNG). Still survivable by tanks that spec for tanking, not for dealing a little bit DPS or healing as well. Get 36k~ health and you will survive even bad RNG.

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Whether the leader board is competitive or not is another story. But don't tell me how to do my job, especially when what I'm doing achieves results, and especially if you don't have experience achieving those results yourself. It is easy for one to push the boundaries of what everyone should be doing when that individual doesn't really know everyone is doing in the first place.

Who's saying I dont have experience achieving those results?
My first experiences are from last summer, 2014, when I was in a guild that got world 2nd (or 3rd) AA hardmode clear. That particular guild later broke down due to overall disappointing PvE experience.

And I know exactly what everyone is doing during our runs, that's part of being in one of the top 3 PvE guilds in the world.

Again, this is an image about spike damage killing players, because they were not able to be blocking, being a real thing that isn't going away. You can try to make the subject about the healer and you can try to make the subject about what I should have been doing, but I'm not biting.

Congratulations on your leader board runs. I'm just surprised, given your numerous assumptions and preconceptions about tanking, that you know exactly what everyone, specifically the tank, is doing.

cmabouaf

i agree, the stam reduction while blocking renders block builds virtually useless. Also, many block builds chose sword and board due to the fact our ping is utter garbage. with 300 ping i do not have the response time to block when needed as well as roll dodge when needed. I have seen very many non block builds out dps and out sustain blockers. I believe blocking should atleast regen some stam. Last patch my build was unique, a medium armor block build, but now its completely useless

ColtPython

I respect all of the tank's opinions here but I am chiming in as a Stam dps. The opportunity cost to activate a block in combat is way to high. This will delay the time it takes to get the Stam regen anothe few seconds. Block casting is totally out of the question for a Stam dps, mission acomplished. However, this does nothing to stop a magic dps from casting and blocking. Since their primary resource will continue to regenerate as they block allowing them to have more dps and defense. As it stands now this is a large nerf on Stam builds and the magic dos builds are it nearly as affected. On top of that dodge roll was made far to expensive so we have no way to defend ourselves if the tank goes down. I guess we will all spec to magic... Once again!!!

Wing

ZoS Balance team

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkz8BLBJ9_I

Hiero_Glyph

As others have noted, no stamina regen while blocking will not solve the issue of block casting nor will it prevent zergs from perma-blocking since just holding block costs no stamina anyway. As usual ZoS is fixing the wrong problem. Besides, if someone is turtling but unable to attack/cast, are they really a threat? Nope, they are now a tank in the truest sense of the term. If they are forced to release block to attack, tanks will not suffer and block-casters will become vulnerable.

Personofsecrets

Wing wrote: »

ZoS Balance team

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkz8BLBJ9_I

kaorunandrak

Here my 2 cents

How about this, Increased cost of ALL skills while blocking. This includes Magika and Stamina skills, if you are blocking then your focus should be on blocking I think a 50%-100% increase in skill cost is a better path to walk then the no stamina regen route. You have to remember that this just doesn't effect tanks this also effects stamina DPS's who have no answer to a a magika user when they are wasting their resource on defending and attacking at the same time. And you can't say L2P either because that magika user can block and cast spells because they are using two different resources rather then just one. And they also have very good defensive options that use their magika that they can put up and just go right back into blocking.

Personally I think that blocking should give you an over all offensive debuff, that means using any ability while blocking should cost 75% more and should reduce your damage by no less then 25%. Your blocking it's that simple if your on the defense your focus is there not casting abilities.

To be honest if the 100% stamina debuff is the route they choose to go then they also need to add a 100% magika regen debuff to it as well to be fair and effect magkia users as well.

Swarog

Where is ZOS comments about zero stamina regen problem? Does they want to silently ignore it?

Rinmaethodain

Swarog wrote: »

Where is ZOS comments about zero stamina regen problem? Does they want to silently ignore it?

Apparently the fact that they had a special assigned QA team which declared that "change is fine, all content is doable" (where in QA video noone was actually tanking) apparently gives them right to ignore any player feedback on this issue and just put it to live without any adjustments, while they focus only on feedback regarding IC DLC (not even the base game patch).

sabresandiego_ESO

Swarog wrote: »

Where is ZOS comments about zero stamina regen problem? Does they want to silently ignore it?

Its not a problem. Its the best change in the entire patch. Find something better to do than holding down block forever.

Rinmaethodain

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Swarog wrote: »

Where is ZOS comments about zero stamina regen problem? Does they want to silently ignore it?

Its not a problem. Its the best change in the entire patch. Find something better to do than holding down block forever.

/me Looks at users signature
*So nice when people who actually have something to do with tanking take a voice about this change.*

ColtPython

Why is it only stam that is being attacked? Meanwhile magic users can continue to cast and regen. This is not a balanced fix. Personally, while I am not a tanking expert, from what I've seen in basic dungeons tanks are doing ok with the reduced block cost glyphs, CP in block cost, and other reductions. I am not sure they will handle the AA axes or the Manti constant block party in very long fights. However, as a stam dps on PTS I have given up block and rolling more than once. The opportunity cost is to great to give up the stam regen. Block casting will surely mean the end of my stam pool. Meanwhile as a magic dps I can block cast impulse for a long period still. As it stands right now, I will likely be shelving my stam dps characters or respecing to magic. Or worse, shelving the game entirely since this is the meta we had pre 1.6 where it was ESO =Equip Staff Only as stam pools just had too much strain on them to actually provide dps and survivability. I stood tall back then as a weak dw/bow stam NB (main) but I'm not sure I have another round in me even though my current toon stable has more magic users than stam.