What is considered acceptable DPS for each class?

Qhival

So yeah. title says it all. originally i had a video of my templar and his dps, but I found out the dps meter I was using isn't very inaccurate and continues to record until your character is out of combat, which is sometimes 5 seconds after the fight ends. The dps meter of FTC seems to work well, though

reclaimervii.sierra117ub17_ESO

Not to rain your templar parade, but that's AoE I hit over 3k in AoE . Now what's acceptale for a templar imo is 900-1K Sustained DPS. I think you should head to the Rift, and test out single sustained DPS.

Qhival

why the rift?

michaelb14a_ESO2

I would actually like to know the following:

Avg Single Target DPS potential for each class

aco5712

as a NB tank (5 heavy 2 light) i can get around 2-2.5k dps in a aoe setting. Imo, if you want to maximize your aoe dps as a templar, maybe have a look at solar barrage? Might be better coz no aiming or something? just a suggestion

Qhival

aco5712 wrote: »

as a NB tank (5 heavy 2 light) i can get around 2-2.5k dps in a aoe setting. Imo, if you want to maximize your aoe dps as a templar, maybe have a look at solar barrage? Might be better coz no aiming or something? just a suggestion

i've tried solar barrage, but i could never figure out what i would replace on my current bar, and max aoe is 6 targets anyways, right?

Hortator Mopa

Hey guys, Dps is a funny thing and cant always be measured in a way that means anything.. HOWEVER you are doing it "wrong".

To test your dps you need to do it on a single target (with enough hp to make the fight last a little while) and you cant use ultimate or potions. Tbh you cant use anything that you wont have on the whole time in a boss fight aka final boss at AA.

Ill link my dps test on a storm atron. (2k+ dps single target semi sustained). Remember on longer bosses it may be lower, or sometimes the same, it depends on a few things and also with pots and ulti it can change. Like I said its hard to fully get a good idea of what DPS even is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbQflOcqZc

As a NB if you do it right you can hit 1k+ easy consistent on AA and VET DSA bosses and 2k + like I am doing on smaller mobs such as the ones you would find appearing around bosses in DSA VET (SINGLE TARGET ONLY). A few times I have kept 2k up on bosses though. Depending on crit rate. (ALSO SINGLE TARGET)

For AOEing you should be getting far more. At spell scar I can hit 8k solo without heals on the packs of mobs there.

I understand you said you are a tank however, goodluck.

aco5712

Qhival wrote: »

aco5712 wrote: »

as a NB tank (5 heavy 2 light) i can get around 2-2.5k dps in a aoe setting. Imo, if you want to maximize your aoe dps as a templar, maybe have a look at solar barrage? Might be better coz no aiming or something? just a suggestion

i've tried solar barrage, but i could never figure out what i would replace on my current bar, and max aoe is 6 targets anyways, right?

Yeh its 6 max unless the skill says otherwise

Breg_Magol

As a NB, this is what it should be ... Except when I'm a DK, and then NB & DK values should insta-swap.

DK - 1.3K
Sorc - 0.2K
Templar - 0.35K
NB - 5K +


Anything else is patently wrong and deserves to be nerfed ...

Hortator Mopa

I have seen sorc and dk do 1.7 before in trials, temp healing and myself a nb doing 2k+ with more of a average around 1.7.

All single target as doing dps by aoe is highly inaccurate

seanvwolf

Breg_Magol wrote: »

As a NB, this is what it should be ... Except when I'm a DK, and then NB & DK values should insta-swap.

DK - 1.3K
Sorc - 0.2K
Templar - 0.35K
NB - 5K +


Anything else is patently wrong and deserves to be nerfed ...

Uh... Sorcerer at 200?

The true answer is they should all be about the same depending on sets of skills provided.

All the classes are (by design) hybrids, which in the TES universe is what the premade classes of Dragonknight, Sorcerer, Templar and Nightblade traditionally were with a bit of flavor, particularly because the single player games were mostly a solo venture requiring you to change your style on the fly if you so please. Meaning your DPS and/or any other focus you choose to hone in on should vary depending on the build you are going for. There are other important factors to weigh in regarding feasibility of playstyle like CC, shielding, aggro-sustain, resource sustain and mitigation mechanics.

For instance, Nightblades in Oblivion were healers and Alteration and Destruction specialists in leather armor who often dual wielded blades. But it didn't mean you couldn't throw on some heavy armor and a shield from time to time. That's the appeal that TES games had, and I think that to pigeon hole creativity by saying what a class should and should not be able to do is encouraging ESO to loose it's roots and a major source of inspiration by many fans of the series.

What ZOS should be doing is providing more content that illustrates how having a pure DPS build might not be the best way to go about it. What if there was a monster that wasn't affected by critical strikes? Or one that could only be damaged when CCed or whose magic is reflected back on itself. That's the kind of discussions I think we should be having.

TehMagnus

So to answer OP's questions:

AOE DPS doesn't count and 1,4K is actually very low if it's AOE DPS (didn't look at the video since @ work).

DPS rates change depending what you're doing, I can get to extremely high numbers in AA with my DK I cannot reach in other instances of the game.

In most cases:

After 800 dps, you're not getting carried anymore, you're pulling your own weight and if everybody in your party has that DPS you can complete the instance. Any class can reach this DPS. In my opinion and many others, 800 DPS is acceptable DPS and you can clear any content of the game with that DPS.

Still for "hardcore" players, 800 DPS is very low and not acceptable in parties. Acceptable DPS is more like 1,2 K average (outside of AA) and templars are either tanks or healers since they can't DPS as good as a NB or a DK so it's a waste to take a templar instead of a DK or NB (optimization wise).

infraction2008b16_ESO

The thing I see in most MMOs:

1. An experienced player at the top of their game hits a certain number and posts parses ect to show what the class is capable of.

2. Certain raid leaders see those posts and believe the top end is the norm.

3. All of a sudden those top end parses become the requirement for most groups even though they are far above actual requirement to beat an enrage etc.

4. A huge chunk of the playerbase end up excluded from raiding.

Shinra

1. You have a Solo Build there. When you change to playing with a group, you will need other skills.

2. In most cases tanks don't need to do DPS. Just surviving is good enough. If you come to a DPS race where the tank needs to make the difference, Blazing Shield connected with Puncturing Sweep is plenty. All the other slots are used for taunting (Puncture, Inner Fire) and additional defense (like Defensive Stance, Blinding Flashes, Extended Ritual and Rune Focus or Immovable, really depends on the situation what you should take with you.)

3. A DD doesn't need Blazing Shield. You can't waste a slot and mana on a shield you probably don't even need and only lasts 5 seconds. Further, for a DD, Puncturing Sweeps don't provide enough DPS. not even when used with Blazing Spears. Vampire's Bane, Dark Flare, Backlash (and Blazing Spears) are Skills you need to take with you if you want to play as a DD.
Or just go with a Crushing Shock Build.

qiyamatawilrwb17_ESO

i abhor stat and dps counters. saps the fun right out of it.
"how awesome am i at standing still making pew pew???"

go on ask me what my dps is b4 sending group invite....

Jitterbug

Good discussion this /follow

I am hitting 6-800 single target sustained on world mobs on my vr6 dw sorc.

600 being the base value, 800 being max with pots, procs and crits.
(not counting of course the hilarious values I get when sneak attacking)

I basically weave heavy attacks with rapid strikes and keep blood craze and crit surge up at all times. When I'm feeling pro I try and switch to bow to have the venom dot aswell, but I don't know if its worth it (?)
I have flawless dawnbreaker slotted.

GreyBrow

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Hey guys, Dps is a funny thing and cant always be measured in a way that means anything.. HOWEVER you are doing it "wrong".

To test your dps you need to do it on a single target (with enough hp to make the fight last a little while) and you cant use ultimate or potions. Tbh you cant use anything that you wont have on the whole time in a boss fight aka final boss at AA.

Ill link my dps test on a storm atron. (2k+ dps single target semi sustained). Remember on longer bosses it may be lower, or sometimes the same, it depends on a few things and also with pots and ulti it can change. Like I said its hard to fully get a good idea of what DPS even is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbQflOcqZc

As a NB if you do it right you can hit 1k+ easy consistent on AA and VET DSA bosses and 2k + like I am doing on smaller mobs such as the ones you would find appearing around bosses in DSA VET (SINGLE TARGET ONLY). A few times I have kept 2k up on bosses though. Depending on crit rate. (ALSO SINGLE TARGET)

For AOEing you should be getting far more. At spell scar I can hit 8k solo without heals on the packs of mobs there.

I understand you said you are a tank however, goodluck.

LOL WTF

You most certainly can and should be using ultimates and pots, because you can and should be using ultimates and pots during the mage fight. If you're not doing that, you're doing it "wrong".

DPS is a test of how much damage you can output in a given amount of time. An "Ideal" test would be if there were straw "dummies" you could blast over and over to practice on.

With that being said, the DPS that is generally considered "acceptable" DPS by higher end raiding guilds (with spell pots and ultimates, no evil hunter) is:

DK: 1.1k-1.3k
NB: 1k-1.2k
Sorc: 900-1.1k
Templar: lolwut

These are the numbers you should be hitting in purple gear if you're doing the skill rotation and light attack weaving properly. If you're not hitting these numbers, you're doing something wrong with your rotation or build, you need to get better gear, or the composition of your group is not optimal (combat prayer/igneous weapons/ele drain/war horn not up 100% of the time)


DPS that is generally considered AMAZING (above average) by higher end raiding guilds (with evil hunter and anything else you can possibly do) is:

DK: 1.6k-2k
NB: 1.4k-1.8k
Sorc: 1.4k-1.6k
Templar 1k+

Again, these are ranges. The bottom number is what you should aim for to be "above average", and the top number is what you'll hit if you're a top 1% player. To get these numbers, the entirety of your group must also be getting very good DPS. This is because shorter fights = less spell symmetry and rebuffing = more time casting damage spells. In order to get these numbers, you'll need 100% legendary gear, and everyone else in your group needs to be on point with keeping the buffs active.

Also, if you're aiming for this kind of DPS, you're chugging spell power pots on cool down, have all the PvP buffs, etc., and are able to keep your ultimate up 100% of the fight. Any skilled player should be able to do that with any class.

Most of the time that you see someone post damage output on a fight like the mage that is over 1.4k, its because they're a DK or NB and they've used impulse to hit the axes and add more damage to their equation.

Sometimes, For fights like the lightning or storm atro in AA, you can hit 2k as a sorc simply by popping a spell power pot, casting daedric mines every 3 seconds, and using overload light attacks.

Personally, i've hit 1.6k DPS on the mage with my DK and 1.2k with my sorc... But I'm hoping that they introduce more content that requires more from DPS than: Q/R/RMB/la/1/la/2/swap/la/1/la/2/la/1/la/2 etc etc.,

GreyBrow

Jitterbug wrote: »

Good discussion this /follow

I am hitting 6-800 single target sustained on world mobs on my vr6 dw sorc.

600 being the base value, 800 being max with pots, procs and crits.
(not counting of course the hilarious values I get when sneak attacking)

I basically weave heavy attacks with rapid strikes and keep blood craze and crit surge up at all times. When I'm feeling pro I try and switch to bow to have the venom dot aswell, but I don't know if its worth it (?)
I have flawless dawnbreaker slotted.

have tested this out on my sorc as well (vr14) with 5 piece hundings rage and 4 piece night mother.

I can get about 1.1k (no pots, no evil hunter) by keeping lightning form up 100% of the time, having bound armaments (the one that increases heavy attack dmg, incase i need stamina in longer fights) leading with a heavy attack, and then doing a simple rotation of light attack/whirlwind/light attack/whirlwind and keeping blood craze up. when they get to about 25% i swap to my 2 hander and use the 2h execute, and it works pretty well.

You can even do this in a raid setting as long as there are only 1-2 stamina users in the group, and you have a templar healer that is willing to throw you some shards every now and again. I've gotten 1k on the warrior doing this, and i have a NB dw/2h friend who has gotten up to 1.2k on the warrior.

IMO, stamina DPS is actually pretty good (a good player will get higher stamina based dps than an average sorc/nb/templar), mainly because of the fact that you don't have to worry about trading your health for mana and then being healed, you can just use a synergy and get like 30% of your stamina back.

Dymence

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Hey guys, Dps is a funny thing and cant always be measured in a way that means anything.. HOWEVER you are doing it "wrong".

To test your dps you need to do it on a single target (with enough hp to make the fight last a little while) and you cant use ultimate or potions. Tbh you cant use anything that you wont have on the whole time in a boss fight aka final boss at AA.

Ill link my dps test on a storm atron. (2k+ dps single target semi sustained). Remember on longer bosses it may be lower, or sometimes the same, it depends on a few things and also with pots and ulti it can change. Like I said its hard to fully get a good idea of what DPS even is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbQflOcqZc

As a NB if you do it right you can hit 1k+ easy consistent on AA and VET DSA bosses and 2k + like I am doing on smaller mobs such as the ones you would find appearing around bosses in DSA VET (SINGLE TARGET ONLY). A few times I have kept 2k up on bosses though. Depending on crit rate. (ALSO SINGLE TARGET)

For AOEing you should be getting far more. At spell scar I can hit 8k solo without heals on the packs of mobs there.

I understand you said you are a tank however, goodluck.

Lol this is a total fail test in itself.

You can't seriously count in evil hunter and its morphs because you won't be using that on the large part of bosses. Furthermore I doubt you'd be using mark target in any standard run either.

That just leaves the mob's hp. You nuked it down, aka not sustained dps because sustained dps is something you can keep up for at least half a minute.

nerevarine1138

Here's the real way to measure DPS:

- Go up to an enemy.
- Hit the enemy.
- Continue hitting the enemy.
- If you think the enemy died quickly enough for your tastes, you are doing enough damage.
- If you don't think the enemy died quickly enough for your tastes, then change something up.
- If someone else tries to tell you that you need to measure your DPS with a stick, grab said stick and whack said person over the head with it to show off your sustained DPS.

Kraven

For dps testing I use mammoths in the final 50++ zone, high hp very slight movement. Standing still and killing a mob in 2 seconds doesn't show anything. For this reason giants and centurions even work as they keep you moving while dealing dps. Personally I think too many have gotten use to the stack and burn tactic so they suffer in fights that require movement and paying attention.

That said I use a dps parse to improve myself not judge other dps. The parse should be used as a tool for self improvement, IMO. Now that said since certain fights do require a minimum dps you can't say "I don't care if I'm only doing 400, it's how I want to play." you have to be willing to improve and not be afraid to ask for and take suggestions.

Jitterbug

GreyBrow wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Good discussion this /follow

I am hitting 6-800 single target sustained on world mobs on my vr6 dw sorc.

600 being the base value, 800 being max with pots, procs and crits.
(not counting of course the hilarious values I get when sneak attacking)

I basically weave heavy attacks with rapid strikes and keep blood craze and crit surge up at all times. When I'm feeling pro I try and switch to bow to have the venom dot aswell, but I don't know if its worth it (?)
I have flawless dawnbreaker slotted.

have tested this out on my sorc as well (vr14) with 5 piece hundings rage and 4 piece night mother.

I can get about 1.1k (no pots, no evil hunter) by keeping lightning form up 100% of the time, having bound armaments (the one that increases heavy attack dmg, incase i need stamina in longer fights) leading with a heavy attack, and then doing a simple rotation of light attack/whirlwind/light attack/whirlwind and keeping blood craze up. when they get to about 25% i swap to my 2 hander and use the 2h execute, and it works pretty well.

You can even do this in a raid setting as long as there are only 1-2 stamina users in the group, and you have a templar healer that is willing to throw you some shards every now and again. I've gotten 1k on the warrior doing this, and i have a NB dw/2h friend who has gotten up to 1.2k on the warrior.

IMO, stamina DPS is actually pretty good (a good player will get higher stamina based dps than an average sorc/nb/templar), mainly because of the fact that you don't have to worry about trading your health for mana and then being healed, you can just use a synergy and get like 30% of your stamina back.

Cool!
I might have to reslot armaments

Shinra

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Here's the real way to measure DPS:

- Go up to an enemy.
- Hit the enemy.
- Continue hitting the enemy.
- If you think the enemy died quickly enough for your tastes, you are doing enough damage.
- If you don't think the enemy died quickly enough for your tastes, then change something up.
- If someone else tries to tell you that you need to measure your DPS with a stick, grab said stick and whack said person over the head with it to show off your sustained DPS.

^^ This is how you do it right

TehMagnus

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Here's the real way to measure DPS:

- Go up to an enemy.
- Hit the enemy.
- Continue hitting the enemy.
- If you think the enemy died quickly enough for your tastes, you are doing enough damage.
- If you don't think the enemy died quickly enough for your tastes, then change something up.
- If someone else tries to tell you that you need to measure your DPS with a stick, grab said stick and whack said person over the head with it to show off your sustained DPS.

- Try to get a group for end game content.
- Fail horribly with your stamina build that uses whirlwind to single target DPS.
- Get kicked from the group.
- Come to forums and QQ because "Elitits players" don't want to play with you and it's ruining your game experience.
- Thank Zenimax for not introducing a combat log or DPS meter in their awful UI and making it extremely hard for casual players to gain knowledge on what they are doing.

Lord_Kreegan

I have been disappointed in my assessment of the game (for solo play) as largely a DPS-race. Survivability builds, crowd-control builds, healing builds, and balanced/utility builds just don't seem to do as well, especially against bosses.

Personally, I think those builds are much more fun. Builds set up for group play are great when you can readily get groups; but nowadays, irrespective of what MMO you play, the focus is on solo play (because that's where the money is and developers follow the money). The only people who readily get groups are those in the various guilds.

I don't do guilds... period. I got tired a long time ago of guild drama, guild elitists, guild politics, guild schedules, guild taxes, guild double standards, and everything else bad about guilds... and ultimately I prefer PUGs anyway. That's the way to meet new people and make new friends.

So, I can build a character for DPS (since I'm going to be soloing most of the time) or I can build a character for fun... and die a lot.

Hortator Mopa

The tears of jealousy of my 2k dps single target without ulti or pots, they taste so yummy!

To answer them though, you said you should be using potions and ultis. Well der obviously in battles you will however can you keep a ulti PERMANENTLY on throughout say the WHOLE end boss of AA? Can you keep potions on (crit) that last 10 seconds and have a 30 second cool down?

No you cant. So testing on smaller mobs with benefits you cannot keep on 100% is stupid. The test I did uses only things I can 100% keep on and to get a underlining base dps reading.

To the other person saying "Lol you used evil hunter etc you cant continue that"... How bad are you? I can sustain all those skills THUS why I didnt use a ulti or potion which has a effect that last less then the cool down of the pot. I also state that although I got 2k there I WOULD get less in other situations (Like the evil hunter not being used on some bosses).

Jump to conclusions more? I literally even stated in a post that it could be far less then 2k and normally averages 1.5 in big bosses.. jealousy is a ***?

People saying around 1 or 1.2 thousand dps is good are not good players. That is good dps dont get me wrong HOWEVER top tier players pull 1.5k consistent or more... most things WONT need that much and is overkill but it is possible.... Weather or people like it or not..

TehMagnus

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

The tears of jealousy of my 2k dps single target without ulti or pots, they taste so yummy!

To answer them though, you said you should be using potions and ultis. Well der obviously in battles you will however can you keep a ulti PERMANENTLY on throughout say the WHOLE end boss of AA? Can you keep potions on (crit) that last 10 seconds and have a 30 second cool down?

No you cant. So testing on smaller mobs with benefits you cannot keep on 100% is stupid. The test I did uses only things I can 100% keep on and to get a underlining base dps reading.

To the other person saying "Lol you used evil hunter etc you cant continue that"... How bad are you? I can sustain all those skills THUS why I didnt use a ulti or potion which has a effect that last less then the cool down of the pot. I also state that although I got 2k there I WOULD get less in other situations (Like the evil hunter not being used on some bosses).

Jump to conclusions more? I literally even stated in a post that it could be far less then 2k and normally averages 1.5 in big bosses.. jealousy is a ***?

People saying around 1 or 1.2 thousand dps is good are not good players. That is good dps dont get me wrong HOWEVER top tier players pull 1.5k consistent or... most things WONT need that much and is overkill but it is possible.... Weather or people like it or not..

Lool you pull 2k DPs in a 4s fight begining with a stealthed full charged heavy attack as a NB with a boss vulnerable to evil hunter and you actually think it's good xD. So laughable.

Go kill a mammoth and then show your DPS . Killing a storm atro with less than 10K HP is just like the DPS on AA first boss: It doesn't count and can only make people laugh at you

Hortator Mopa

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Remember on longer bosses it may be lower, or sometimes the same, it depends on a few things. Like I said its hard to fully get a good idea of what DPS even is.

As a NB if you do it right you can hit 1k+ easy consistent on AA and VET DSA bosses and 2k + like I am doing on smaller mobs such as the ones you would find appearing around bosses in DSA VET (SINGLE TARGET ONLY).

I think I will leave this here. You don't know how to read?
1) I literally say this is dps on mobs that have this hp and normally are around bosses in such things as DSA.
2) I say there are lots of things that change this. Evil hunter might not be useful, pots, ultis, team members, stealth, is it mid fight, are you opening thus the stealth combo. So that's another point you obviously didn't read.

You are either dumb and cant read or jealous. Every single thing you accuse me of I had pointed out in the original post I did.

Jump to conclusions and YOU will be laughed at.

Question for you: Are you so bad you CANT do 1k+ consistent on a trial boss or 2k+ consistent on a mini boss?

l2p and l2r

pppontus

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Remember on longer bosses it may be lower, or sometimes the same, it depends on a few things. Like I said its hard to fully get a good idea of what DPS even is.

As a NB if you do it right you can hit 1k+ easy consistent on AA and VET DSA bosses and 2k + like I am doing on smaller mobs such as the ones you would find appearing around bosses in DSA VET (SINGLE TARGET ONLY).

I think I will leave this here. You don't know how to read?
1) I literally say this is dps on mobs that have this hp and normally are around bosses in such things as DSA.
2) I say there are lots of things that change this. Evil hunter might not be useful, pots, ultis, team members, stealth, is it mid fight, are you opening thus the stealth combo. So that's another point you obviously didn't read.

You are either dumb and cant read or jealous. Every single thing you accuse me of I had pointed out in the original post I did.

Jump to conclusions and YOU will be laughed at.

Question for you: Are you so bad you CANT do 1k+ consistent on a trial boss or 2k+ consistent on a mini boss?

l2p and l2r

Dude, who do you think you are?

Testing DPS on Daedra with Evil Hunter and using a sneak attack? This DPS testing example is almost as bad as AOE...

The only thing you are correct in is that you should count out pots and ultis. Other than that.. lol. So many LOLs I can't even click the LOL-button.

Hortator Mopa

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Hortator Mopa wrote: »

Remember on longer bosses it may be lower, or sometimes the same, it depends on a few things. Like I said its hard to fully get a good idea of what DPS even is.

As a NB if you do it right you can hit 1k+ easy consistent on AA and VET DSA bosses and 2k + like I am doing on smaller mobs such as the ones you would find appearing around bosses in DSA VET (SINGLE TARGET ONLY).

1) I literally say this is dps on mobs that have this hp and normally are around bosses in such things as DSA.
2) I say there are lots of things that change this. Evil hunter might not be useful, pots, ultis, team members, stealth, is it mid fight, are you opening thus the stealth combo. So that's another point you obviously didn't read.

I guess the above comment also does not know how to read. So enjoy this and sound it all out.

Warraxx

^THiS (the entire thread above) is why PVP is a lot more fun.