Champion System to Add 25,200 HOURS of Character Advancement
Dominoid
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If you are interested in some of the details of the Champion System, be sure to listen to the audio recording of the Champion System Portion of the ESO Guild Summit 2014.
"We envision it will take you about an hour to earn a champion point" - Paul Sage
First the math on the thread title:
There are 36 different passives that can be spec'ed into in the Champion System - nine constellations with four passives each. There is a maximum of 700 Champion Points that can be placed in each star (passive). The pacing for earning Champion Points is about one hour of play time. So . . .
700 points X 36 passives X 1 Hour = 25,200 HOURS OF PROGRESSION
A few more details on the Champion System as a whole (it turned out to be more than a few):
The first thing EVERYONE will notice when the Champion System releases is that all of their stat numbers will be multiplied by ten. That means 2,500 health becomes 25,000, or 400 frost resistance will become 4,000. This is to add "granularity" to the system. They want the player to be able to SEE the effects of their choices. So say if someone chooses a passive that increase frost resistance by 1%, it will be easier to see that change. Without the multiplier, some changes wouldn't be shown because of rounding and the player could become discouraged or feel like they wasted a point. This is gonna happen, so we should accept it.
There are three constellation groups in the Champion System one for each resource pool - The Warrior for Health, The Thief for Stamina and The Mage for Magicka.
Each constellation group has 3 sub-constellations accounting for a total of 9 constellations. That breakdown is as follows:
As mentioned, each sub-constellation has 4 passives that can be spec'ed into. In addition to these four passives each, each constellation also has four additional passives that are unlocked and strengthened as more and more points are placed into a constellation. For example, after you place 10 Champion Points total in the Apprentice constellation you automatically unlock and get the benefits of a new passive called Extraction Boost which increases the likelihood to extract better material. Continuing to place Champion Points into the Apprentice will continue to strengthen this new passive automatically. You do not place Champion Points into this "second-tier" of passives. The second-tier is unlocked automatically as you place more Champion Points in a constellation. These second-tier passives are initially unlocked at 10, 30, 50 and 100 points in a constellation.
This brings the total amount of passives per constellation to 8 for each constellation - 4 that you spec into and four that unlock automatically. This means that a total of 72 new passives are being added by the Champion System.
A Champion Point is earned after a still-to-be-determined amount of XP has been received by the player. That Champion Point can then be placed into the Champion System constellations, but there are some rules as to how they get placed.
CHAMPION POINTS ARE PLACED INTO THE CHAMPION SYSTEM ON A HEALTH-STAMINA-MAGICKA ROTATION
Let's dig into that statement a little more. The first Champion Point you earn MUST BE placed into the Warrior (health) constellation group. You can place it into either the Steed, Lady or Lord constellation. You choose. That gives you twelve options - four each. After you make your choice, the Warrior constellations will "rotate" and your next point must then be placed into the Thief (stamina) group. Your next point then obviously gets placed in the Mage (magicka) group. The rotation then continues in this manner in perpetuity.
There are two main reasons for this. First is to frankly slow the player's progression so they can't max any one stat too quickly. The second is to help with player diversification. Take it as you will, but that is how the system will work. This means that if you want to max out 700 points in Light Armor you will need to earn 2100 Champion Points because of the rotation system.
ZOS went out of their way to mention that each constellation group, Warrior-Thief-Mage, has passives that make sense for each play style (holy trinity). So there will be something for Tanks in the Warrior, Thief and Mage constellations. Same for each of the play styles so it's not as restrictive as it seems.
Another Champion System change has to do with helping player separation. We will cover "Enlightenment" in another post, but there is another mechanic in the Champion System designed to keep players together. That is the fact that placing points into the same passive over and over has diminishing returns. What does that mean? The example used was the first point you place into Light Armor may grant you a 1% increase in armor rating, but placing the 40th point into Light Armor might only grant you a 0.1% increase in armor (another reason for increasing all stats ten fold). This mechanic helps to keep players somewhat close in raw numbers but also means that diversifying your Champion Point allocation may yield the best overall results.
There will be a respec mechanism in place when the Champion System releases. It is quite robust and will not require you to click your mouse button 1,000 or more times to perform a respec. There is information on the respec process in the full audio above.
There is much more information on the Champion System that I wish to share. Look for posts in the coming days on exactly what Enlightenment is and how it works. And another post on how the Champion System is completely changing the fundamentals of how numbers and min/maxing in ESO will work going forward. I hope you enjoyed this post and learned something.
Wanna learn the future? - 12+ Hours of Audio from Guild Summit 2014
Edited by Dominoid on October 5, 2014 7:42PM "We envision it will take you about an hour to earn a champion point" - Paul Sage
First the math on the thread title:
There are 36 different passives that can be spec'ed into in the Champion System - nine constellations with four passives each. There is a maximum of 700 Champion Points that can be placed in each star (passive). The pacing for earning Champion Points is about one hour of play time. So . . .
700 points X 36 passives X 1 Hour = 25,200 HOURS OF PROGRESSION
A few more details on the Champion System as a whole (it turned out to be more than a few):
The first thing EVERYONE will notice when the Champion System releases is that all of their stat numbers will be multiplied by ten. That means 2,500 health becomes 25,000, or 400 frost resistance will become 4,000. This is to add "granularity" to the system. They want the player to be able to SEE the effects of their choices. So say if someone chooses a passive that increase frost resistance by 1%, it will be easier to see that change. Without the multiplier, some changes wouldn't be shown because of rounding and the player could become discouraged or feel like they wasted a point. This is gonna happen, so we should accept it.
There are three constellation groups in the Champion System one for each resource pool - The Warrior for Health, The Thief for Stamina and The Mage for Magicka.
Each constellation group has 3 sub-constellations accounting for a total of 9 constellations. That breakdown is as follows:
- Warrior (health)
- Steed
- Lady
- Lord
- Thief (stamina)
- Tower
- Lover
- Shadow
- Mage (magicka)
- Ritual
- Atronach
- Apprentice
As mentioned, each sub-constellation has 4 passives that can be spec'ed into. In addition to these four passives each, each constellation also has four additional passives that are unlocked and strengthened as more and more points are placed into a constellation. For example, after you place 10 Champion Points total in the Apprentice constellation you automatically unlock and get the benefits of a new passive called Extraction Boost which increases the likelihood to extract better material. Continuing to place Champion Points into the Apprentice will continue to strengthen this new passive automatically. You do not place Champion Points into this "second-tier" of passives. The second-tier is unlocked automatically as you place more Champion Points in a constellation. These second-tier passives are initially unlocked at 10, 30, 50 and 100 points in a constellation.
This brings the total amount of passives per constellation to 8 for each constellation - 4 that you spec into and four that unlock automatically. This means that a total of 72 new passives are being added by the Champion System.
A Champion Point is earned after a still-to-be-determined amount of XP has been received by the player. That Champion Point can then be placed into the Champion System constellations, but there are some rules as to how they get placed.
CHAMPION POINTS ARE PLACED INTO THE CHAMPION SYSTEM ON A HEALTH-STAMINA-MAGICKA ROTATION
Let's dig into that statement a little more. The first Champion Point you earn MUST BE placed into the Warrior (health) constellation group. You can place it into either the Steed, Lady or Lord constellation. You choose. That gives you twelve options - four each. After you make your choice, the Warrior constellations will "rotate" and your next point must then be placed into the Thief (stamina) group. Your next point then obviously gets placed in the Mage (magicka) group. The rotation then continues in this manner in perpetuity.
There are two main reasons for this. First is to frankly slow the player's progression so they can't max any one stat too quickly. The second is to help with player diversification. Take it as you will, but that is how the system will work. This means that if you want to max out 700 points in Light Armor you will need to earn 2100 Champion Points because of the rotation system.
ZOS went out of their way to mention that each constellation group, Warrior-Thief-Mage, has passives that make sense for each play style (holy trinity). So there will be something for Tanks in the Warrior, Thief and Mage constellations. Same for each of the play styles so it's not as restrictive as it seems.
Another Champion System change has to do with helping player separation. We will cover "Enlightenment" in another post, but there is another mechanic in the Champion System designed to keep players together. That is the fact that placing points into the same passive over and over has diminishing returns. What does that mean? The example used was the first point you place into Light Armor may grant you a 1% increase in armor rating, but placing the 40th point into Light Armor might only grant you a 0.1% increase in armor (another reason for increasing all stats ten fold). This mechanic helps to keep players somewhat close in raw numbers but also means that diversifying your Champion Point allocation may yield the best overall results.
There will be a respec mechanism in place when the Champion System releases. It is quite robust and will not require you to click your mouse button 1,000 or more times to perform a respec. There is information on the respec process in the full audio above.
There is much more information on the Champion System that I wish to share. Look for posts in the coming days on exactly what Enlightenment is and how it works. And another post on how the Champion System is completely changing the fundamentals of how numbers and min/maxing in ESO will work going forward. I hope you enjoyed this post and learned something.
Wanna learn the future? - 12+ Hours of Audio from Guild Summit 2014
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Asgari✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Mind = BlownFormerly @Persian_Princess .. Now @Asgari
Princess Asgari | Sorc
Asgari | NB
-Asgari | Stamplar
Ariana Kishi | DK | True Liberator of Haderus
Banner Down!
No Mercy
Youtube: Asgari8 -
KhajitFurTrader✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭25,200 hours of progression?
I bet that some people will attempt to do them all in two months time, tops, only to complain afterwards that there's not enough content.
Just kidding. Great post, thank you!
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Qyrk✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thank you for sharing!!! Looking forward to this!
Heh, to max everything out and get all the CP available, that will essentially take about 3 years non stop playing
. Great stuff though look forward to this. Edited by Qyrk on October 4, 2014 11:09PM2 -
Teiji✭✭✭✭✭
Yes!
My goal of having a character that embodies Red Mountain effectively and heroically, shall come to fruition.
The Champion system shall be wondrous indeed.
The extraction passive though, my crafting character is really pleased.
"Serving Boethiah is Freedom, embracing heroism is Liberty, existing solely for noxiphilic sanguivoria is truth." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
European megaserver Fallout 4
Loyalist of Boethiah, heroism enthusiast, exposer of secrets, bless'ed of noxiphilic sanguivoria.
Nerf one grind, two more take its place; hail Gryndra!
I am a dank memer and satire enthusiast3 -
r.jan_emailb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Just mentioning something regarding the "1 hour per champion point" thing: As far as I remember, at release the official thing was "120 hours until lvl 50". Well I didn't grind my way to 50, at yet I needed less than half of that amount, despite a lot of bugged quests after release. Some guy in one of my pvp groups said yesterday it would probably closer to 20 minutes for a very active player, which I personally think is more likely than 1 hour (at least for my play style, might not be true for the casual player).Lairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
playing for eXile
I'm done, CU somewhere else.2 -
Dominoid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »Just mentioning something regarding the "1 hour per champion point" thing: As far as I remember, at release the official thing was "120 hours until lvl 50". Well I didn't grind my way to 50, at yet I needed less than half of that amount, despite a lot of bugged quests after release. Some guy in one of my pvp groups said yesterday it would probably closer to 20 minutes for a very active player, which I personally think is more likely than 1 hour (at least for my play style, might not be true for the casual player).
I'm sure the number is for the "average" player. Someone will inevitably go to the current hot grind spot and go nuts for days on end. Myself, I have 25 days /played and just entered my VR5 zone. Of course I play without pin markers and use a "fog of war" effect for my map.Edited by Dominoid on October 4, 2014 11:43PM0 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
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Come on. There's some formatting differences.
My posts usually fall flat here, but I thought I'd give this one a try. If it gets panned or devolves into a riot, I'll stay away with the follow ups.
Hehe. Cheers! 2 -
Dominoid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@ZOS_MariaAliprando, I PM'd you as well.
Could you please clarify what a Reddit poster said with regards to what was clarified at dinner that evening.
I can't argue with "I was there", but I also can't believe that a system would be created that wouldn't allow for a player to attempt to max out more than one passive (out of twelve) in a constellation group. That makes no sense.
Thanks.2 -
StarlightNZSoul ShrivenThis sounds Fantastic, its going to make a big difference in-battle too. I have heard many complaining about the combat system, this proposed change looks to not only satisfy them but push ESO into the best PvP game on the web.
Awesome can't wait to see it
StarlightNZ3 -
pmn100b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭So someone that plays for hours on end everyday is going to be way OP than someone who plays more part time (in regards pvp)? At the moment, if you're v14 and you go 1 on 1 with another v14, you know you're equal, the only thing setting you apart is the class and skills. There's nothing your opponent has at v14 that you can't also have.
At the moment there's a level cap and once people reach it, classes aside, its an even playing field. It sounds like this champion system has no end, so those that can put in the hours to grind are going to have a huge advantage in Cryodiil. Am I seeing this right?10 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@ZOS_MariaAliprando, I PM'd you as well.
Could you please clarify what a Reddit poster said with regards to what was clarified at dinner that evening.
I can't argue with "I was there", but I also can't believe that a system would be created that wouldn't allow for a player to attempt to max out more than one passive (out of twelve) in a constellation group. That makes no sense.
Thanks.
25,200 hours is 1050 days or 2.8 years. It would take quite some time to max out everything.
Besides, you should be able to max out everything if you want to.Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
0.016%3 -
KenjiJU✭✭✭
Come on. There's some formatting differences.
My posts usually fall flat here, but I thought I'd give this one a try. If it gets panned or devolves into a riot, I'll stay away with the follow ups.
The topic title merits interest, but the content of the OP isn't quite what I was expecting.0 -
Dominoid✭✭✭✭✭
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The topic title merits interest, but the content of the OP isn't quite what I was expecting.
In a good way or a bad way?1 -
Dominoid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »So someone that plays for hours on end everyday is going to be way OP than someone who plays more part time (in regards pvp)? At the moment, if you're v14 and you go 1 on 1 with another v14, you know you're equal, the only thing setting you apart is the class and skills. There's nothing your opponent has at v14 that you can't also have.
At the moment there's a level cap and once people reach it, classes aside, its an even playing field. It sounds like this champion system has no end, so those that can put in the hours to grind are going to have a huge advantage in Cryodiil. Am I seeing this right?
Your Over Powered (OP acronyms get confusing) comment is a concern but with both the diminishing return AND the complete change fundamentally of how stats will work in the game (a future post) it won't be all that bad. Even a person who puts 700 points in an armor passive will "only" have 24% more armor as a hard number than someone who has placed 0 points. AND the person that's trailing can half that difference not in 350 points but like 70 or less because of diminishing returns. So the difference is there but skill will play a role and the person can "catch up" to a certain degree rather quickly.2 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭*reading reading* ....................... hmph *head ker-pooted* *good bye*6 -
Dominoid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »*reading reading* ....................... hmph *head ker-pooted* *good bye*
Sorry you missed an informative post.
"ESO sux."
Better? 4 -
jeevin✭✭✭✭✭pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »So someone that plays for hours on end everyday is going to be way OP than someone who plays more part time (in regards pvp)? At the moment, if you're v14 and you go 1 on 1 with another v14, you know you're equal, the only thing setting you apart is the class and skills. There's nothing your opponent has at v14 that you can't also have.
At the moment there's a level cap and once people reach it, classes aside, its an even playing field. It sounds like this champion system has no end, so those that can put in the hours to grind are going to have a huge advantage in Cryodiil. Am I seeing this right?
My thoughts exactly. Players left in droves because of the imbalance veteran ranks bring to the game. The Champion system is making the situation even worse. How can players be excited by the possibility of endless "progression".
The direction this game is going is boggling my mind. Zenimax needs to take control of this game before there is no hope left!
Yeah thats me bringing both the doom and the gloom.....6 -
You're nannying the thread and being kind of a jerk to people. Hey it's your thread, rock out with your various bits out, but I thought you should know.4 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭Rewarding time played vs skill is a fatal design flaw that will kill the longevity for the game in regards to newer players.
What will happen with the champion system is only the current players will continue playing a ridiculous grind and all new players the come after will quickly realize there's no point in trying to catch up. This is what happened to WoW and the way they corrected the issue was each expansion dumbs the game down even more. Nov 17th will see the death of wow with the game becoming fully moron proof and accessible by anyone at any age.
ZOS think deeper into this idea....why would a new player want to play your game or take part in PvP with players leagues above them in stats/gear>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War17 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Is each point placed per individual character or is it placed on a per account basis?0 -
Voodoo✭✭✭✭Excellent post and very excited about the new system. I love semi complex point systems (unlike wow's new multiple choice system) And this system has me excited!7 -
Dominoid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »
You're nannying the thread and being kind of a jerk to people. Hey it's your thread, rock out with your various bits out, but I thought you should know.
I shouldn't drink and post.
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Dominoid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Is each point placed per individual character or is it placed on a per account basis?
Per individual character. Once the Champion System is unlocked (reaching level 50 on a single character) it is available to all your characters even those under level 50. Champion points are earned on XP above level 50 only though, but are placed on a PER Character basis for all you character regardless o level. I think I said that right.3 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
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Hmm okay that could be tricky if we want to keep all characters viable and statted and not just exploit xp gained on alts for our main...thanks for the info.
Per individual character. Once the Champion System is unlocked (reaching level 50 on a single character) it is available to all your characters even those under level 50. Champion points are earned on XP above level 50 only though, but are placed on a PER Character basis for all you character regardless o level. I think I said that right.
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