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Templar Update

edited June 20 in Developer Discussions Staff Post
Below is an early look at the improvements we will be releasing next week, for the Templar. This is a small part of our ongoing class and skill line efforts, and there will be more to come.

Aedric Spear: Puncturing Strikes
  • Puncturing Strikes’ overall damage to all targets will be increased by 10%.
  • Puncturing Strikes’ damage to your closest target will be increased from 100% to 110%.
  • The Piercing Spear passive will add melee critical strike in addition to spell critical strike when using spear abilities.

Dawn’s Wrath: Nova
  • Nova will be capable of critical strikes.
  • Nova damage per tick will be increased by 20%.

Dawn’s Wrath: Solar Disturbance (Nova morph)
  • Solar Disturbance will scale in damage from Ranks I-IV.
  • Solar Disturbance will snare targets by 60% at all ranks.

Dawn’s Wrath: Solar Flare
  • Solar Flare’s cast time will be decreased from 1.5 seconds to 1.3 seconds.
  • Dark Flare will increase in damage as it ranks up.

Dawn’s Wrath: Sun Fire
  • Sun Fire damage will last an extra second, resulting in an extra damage tick with two points in the Enduring Rays passive.
  • Sun Fire’s snare effect and damage effect will now match.
  • Sun Fire’s damage-over-time will be increased by 10% more overall damage.

Thank you for providing us the feedback necessary to make these improvements. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on them, and invite you to let us know what other Templar fixes and improvements you'd like to see.
Post edited by ZOS_JessicaFolsom on
Jessica Folsom
Community Manager (English) - The Elder Scrolls Online
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Comments

  • reggieleereggielee ✭✭✭✭
    glad to see some tweaking going on for templars
    Mama always said the fastest way to a man's heart is through his chest.
  • Custos91Custos91 ✭✭✭
    FINALLLY!
    Thanks a lot!
    Act I, Scene 3 of William Shakespeare's Hamlet

    Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
    For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
    And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
    This above all: to thine own self be true,
    And it must follow, as the night the day,
    Thou canst not then be false to any man.


  • This is great news... now if we can get SOME form of resource management for the class... (lowered costs don't really count guys... c'mon...) Like the above poster stated, we're still kinda pigeonholed into running with a resto staff in order to keep our magicka anywhere near usable levels.
  • tplink3r1tplink3r1 ✭✭✭
    edited June 19
    any plans on fixing blazing shield? it is not increasing its shield no mater how many enemies near.
    Post edited by tplink3r1 on
    Altmer master race.
  • GlantrisGlantris ✭✭
    YEAH! YEAH! YEAH! OOOOOOH YEAH OOOOHHHHHHH GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL YESSSSSSSSSSSS
    cross-faction skinny dipper
  • Erock25Erock25 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19
    fenris4024 wrote: »
    This is great news... now if we can get SOME form of resource management for the class... (lowered costs don't really count guys... c'mon...) Like the above poster stated, we're still kinda pigeonholed into running with a resto staff in order to keep our magicka anywhere near usable levels.

    My question to you or anyone else is, why not use Spell Symmetry just like Sorc? No Sorc worth taking in a trial group is using Dark Conversion to regen magicka so therefore Sorc is in the same exact boat and relies only on Spell Symmetry in group pve situations.
    Post edited by Erock25 on
  • eliisraeliisra ✭✭✭
    edited June 19
    Erock25 wrote: »
    My question to you or anyone else is, why not use Spell Symmetry just like Sorc? No Sorc worth taking in a trial group is using Dark Conversion to regen magicka so therefore Sorc is in the same exact boat and relies only on Spell Symmetry in group pve situations.

    I don't understand that one either. The best regen magicka skill in the game isn't even a class skill. I use Spell Symmetry on my templar all the time, very successfully I might add. Mostly in in PvE, but even in PvP, if I'm back-lining as healer.

    People keep telling me they can't use it because they're scared of dying, to lazy to read lore books and blah blah some other stupid reason. They will say pretty much anything that allows them to keep crying about magicka management. It's not hard to learn Spell Symmetry, not hard to time it in-between dmg spikes either.

    But of course, if you're a font-lining, face-tanking templar, you wont have much use of it.

    These changes looks good as far as dps goes. But what I mostly need myself is some sort of cheap self heal similar to Crit Surge, Dragon Blood or Strife.
    Post edited by eliisra on
  • AdonikamAdonikam ✭✭✭
    edited June 20
    I do appreciate they're looking at the Templar class

    Post edited by Adonikam on
    Icharyd Adonikam
    DAOC - RR12 Armsman, RR11 Sorcerer/Druid, RR10 Savage/Hero/Ranger
    ESO - VR12 AR19 Templar, VR12 AR17 Sorcerer, VR8 AR12 Dragon Knight
  • Dagoth_RacDagoth_Rac ✭✭✭
    Aedric Spear: Puncturing Strikes
    • Puncturing Strikes’ overall damage to all targets will be increased by 10%.
    • Puncturing Strikes’ damage to your closest target will be increased from 100% to 110%.
    • The Piercing Spear passive will add melee critical strike in addition to spell critical strike when using spear abilities.

    Fantastic! Could you explain the closest enemy in more depth? For example, if current damage is 40, it will now be 44 (+10%). That seems like easy math. What would the closest enemy damage be? 2 x 44 would be 88. Is it now 88 x 1.1 = 96.8? Or is it 44 x 2.1 which would only be 92.4? Or is it 2.1 times current damage = 40 x 2.1 = 84?
    Dawn’s Wrath: Nova
    • Nova will be capable of critical strikes.
    • Nova damage per tick will be increased by 20%.

    Nice boost, but the Ultimate Cost still seems a bit excessive compared to similar Ultimates from other classes that only cost 200 (DK Standard, Atronach, Veil of Blades).
    Dawn’s Wrath: Solar Disturbance (Nova morph)
    • Solar Disturbance will scale in damage from Ranks I-IV.
    • Solar Disturbance will snare targets by 60% at all ranks.

    Didn't even notice it was not scaling in damage! So Rank IV will now do 15 base damage instead of 12?
    Dawn’s Wrath: Solar Flare
    • Solar Flare’s cast time will be decreased from 1.5 seconds to 1.3 seconds.
    • Dark Flare will increase in damage as it ranks up.

    Again, did not notice it was not scaling damage! Will it now do 35 base damage at Rank IV instead of 32?
    Dawn’s Wrath: Sun Fire
    • Sun Fire damage will last an extra second, resulting in an extra damage tick with two points in the Enduring Rays passive.
    • Sun Fire’s snare effect and damage effect will now match.
    • Sun Fire’s damage-over-time will be increased by 10% more overall damage.

    So, Sun Fire/Reflective Light will last 5.5 seconds and Vampire's Bane will last 7.5 seconds? Does the splash damage from Relfective Light do DoT to the other enemies? Or is it a one time hit and only the primary target takes DoT? I think only the primary target takes DoT, which makes me feel like Reflective Light should do more splash damage if you want to boost dps for Templar.
    Thank you for providing us the feedback necessary to make these improvements. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on them, and invite you to let us know what other Templar fixes and improvements you'd like to see.

    As others have mentioned, desperately need magicka management. I think Restoring Spirit returned magicka in beta but was deemed overpowered. Perhaps a nerfed version of that instead of the current 4% spell cost reduction? I mean, a 4% reduction on a 300 cost spell is 12 magicka. 4% of max magicka returned on cast (which is I think what it was in beta) with a max magicka of 1600 is 64 magicka. OK, returning 64 magicka on every cast might be a bit much, especially if it was every DoT tick of Sun Fire or every jab of Puncturing Strikes, but there has to be a happy medium in here somewhere!

    Explosive Charge - does this have a radius for damaging enemies in the area? Always seems like if I charge into a group of 3 mobs, some mobs invariably get away unscathed. Is it a tiny radius? Or is it a forward cone based on where you make contact? It is a great skill in theory, but it seems like the enemy I target is the only one who gets consistently damaged, which makes the morph not much better than Focused Charge. Also, could you make me stop in front of the enemy I targeted? Half the time I end up past the enemy and I have to start spinning around trying to find where the enemies went. That is no fun, especially for first-person players.

    Is Enduring Rays WAI? Seems like Sun Fire says X damage over Y seconds. Take Enduring Rays and it says X damage over Z seconds. Damage the same, time increased = lower dps. Is that a bug? A feature? A tooltip issue?

    What is the deal with Honor the Dead? I can't get the magicka return from healing while below 50% health. I seem to need to be below 50% *after* I finish the heal. Is that WAI? That is flirting with disaster if I wait until I am close to death to heal so I am still below 50% health. Especially in VR where you don't want to mess around with putting off healing because even the weakest trash mobs hit like a truck and will kill you if you don't do your best to keep health up pretty high.

    Thanks!
  • Erock25Erock25 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm glad Temp is getting looked at and I'm not against all these suggestions that Temp needs more Magicka sustainability but almost every post mentions Sorc sustain and I just don't get it. Can someone tell me what they are talking about?

    Dark Conversion is bad and kills your DPS. Sitting there and channeling a spell for 5 seconds every 20 seconds is not what I call magicka sustain.

    Then there is Energy Overload ultimate which only works in AOE. I only really ever use this in solo PVE situations.

    Then there is what every Sorc uses in group PVE / Trials which is Spell Symmetry. Spell Symmetry is available to all. Kind of confused at what these Temps are calling for if the best magicka sustain is available for all. Are all of these people talking about solo PVE?
  • FuxoFuxo ✭✭✭
    Magicka management is OK if you play a mage build in a robe with a (resto) staff. Equilibrium is also usable if you have other healers nearby. But some templars are actually those healers. Or they would like to play as tanks in heavy armor with a weapon. Then, magicka sustainability becomes a real problem.
  • MortoskMortosk ✭✭✭✭
    Below is an early look at the improvements we will be releasing next week, for the Templar. This is a small part of our ongoing class and skill line efforts, and there will be more to come.

    Aedric Spear: Puncturing Strikes
    • Puncturing Strikes’ overall damage to all targets will be increased by 10%.
    • Puncturing Strikes’ damage to your closest target will be increased from 100% to 110%.
    • The Piercing Spear passive will add melee critical strike in addition to spell critical strike when using spear abilities.

    Dawn’s Wrath: Nova
    • Nova will be capable of critical strikes.
    • Nova damage per tick will be increased by 20%.

    Dawn’s Wrath: Solar Disturbance (Nova morph)
    • Solar Disturbance will scale in damage from Ranks I-IV.
    • Solar Disturbance will snare targets by 60% at all ranks.

    Dawn’s Wrath: Solar Flare
    • Solar Flare’s cast time will be decreased from 1.5 seconds to 1.3 seconds.
    • Dark Flare will increase in damage as it ranks up.

    Dawn’s Wrath: Sun Fire
    • Sun Fire damage will last an extra second, resulting in an extra damage tick with two points in the Enduring Rays passive.
    • Sun Fire’s snare effect and damage effect will now match.
    • Sun Fire’s damage-over-time will be increased by 10% more overall damage.

    Thank you for providing us the feedback necessary to make these improvements. We look forward to hearing your thoughts on them, and invite you to let us know what other Templar fixes and improvements you'd like to see.

    It's a start, but not nearly enough. The core of the issue is there is very little synergy to templar skills and passives like those that exist in other classes. And, I don't mean press X synergy. I mean our skills are a discombobulated amalgam of unrelated usefulness and they do not jive with one another well. And, to top it all off there is no sustainability to our dps, because we have zero resource regeneration.

    Furthermore, some skills that would otherwise be useful have extremely short durations and the limited window of usefulness makes them extremely situational at best.
    "Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)
  • AdonikamAdonikam ✭✭✭
    Natjur wrote: »
    It will be interesting to see how many V12 templars have re-rolled.

    I'm a VR12 Templar and I'm waiting to see how the first class balance goes for Templars. I have already quit if it wasn't for my guild. They're a great group of people and make the game enjoyable. If they can't put Templars in the middle of the pack after the balance I will probably unsub.
    Icharyd Adonikam
    DAOC - RR12 Armsman, RR11 Sorcerer/Druid, RR10 Savage/Hero/Ranger
    ESO - VR12 AR19 Templar, VR12 AR17 Sorcerer, VR8 AR12 Dragon Knight
  • Erock25Erock25 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19
    Fuxo wrote: »
    Magicka management is OK if you play a mage build in a robe with a (resto) staff. Equilibrium is also usable if you have other healers nearby. But some templars are actually those healers. Or they would like to play as tanks in heavy armor with a weapon. Then, magicka sustainability becomes a real problem.

    I just don't see how a Sorc that isn't in a mage build has it any better. When my Sorc is specced to tank or wearing medium armor, magicka is very tough and I have zero ability to regen it. I'm not using Dark Conversion on a stamina user.

    Is it just that Temp spells cost a lot? Weird that it is such a unanimous feeling in this thread but everyone seems wrong about how other classes (particularly Sorc as it is all I know) have it better.
    Post edited by Erock25 on
  • MortoskMortosk ✭✭✭✭
    Anyone search this thread for the words "magicka regen" and "resource management"? It would be a fun exercise to undertake.

    Please report the results to @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
    "Now I stand, the lion before the lambs and they do not fear. They can not fear." --Arthas Menethil (aka, The Lich King)
  • NerfEverythingNerfEverything ✭✭✭✭
    @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ I'm assuming by next week you mean on the PTS next week? Or is this something we can try out on the PTS now?

    Either way, we are very excited that our feedback has been heard and we look forward to trying out these changes!
  • NatjurNatjur ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19
    Erock25 wrote: »
    Fuxo wrote: »
    Magicka management is OK if you play a mage build in a robe with a (resto) staff. Equilibrium is also usable if you have other healers nearby. But some templars are actually those healers. Or they would like to play as tanks in heavy armor with a weapon. Then, magicka sustainability becomes a real problem.

    I just don't see how a Sorc that isn't in a mage build has it any better. When my Sorc is specced to tank or wearing medium armor, magicka is very tough and I have zero ability to regen it. I'm not using Dark Conversion on a stamina user.

    Is it just that Temp spells cost a lot? Weird that it is such a unanimous feeling in this thread but everyone seems wrong about how other classes (particularly Sorc as it is all I know) have it better.
    I now only play my V12 sorc, my V12 templar is parked and my V12 DK is just for PVP (but a lot of fun)

    I have used my sorc to tank a vet dung and yes mana regen was harder, but no where near the level of the templar.
    All templar class skills cost too much, and that is why most of our skills don't even get loaded on the bar. To get the best out of a DPS build, you mostly just use Mage Guild skill line.

    But the biggest difference between the sorc and the templar is the sorc passives work well across all class trees and some very useful skills.

    All sorc builds normally have 50%+ crit, Critical Surge in a real good self heal.
    The passives Unholy Knowledge, Capacitator & Expert Mage all lower your spell costs or increase mana regen.

    Templars get one, Restoring Spirit which we only get around L34 and maxed at L50 and no were as good as the first level of Unholy Knowledge.

    We don't want templars to be the same as sorc, but why do all classes have a one or two mana regen skills/passives and templars have skills 10% more costly across the board and no passives to make up for any of that?

    Well, the devs told us why in beta when they took away our mana regen passive. They do not want the templar to be able to self heal endlessly. But I can endless heal on my sorc with Critical Surge.
    Post edited by Natjur on
  • Erock25Erock25 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Natjur wrote: »
    Erock25 wrote: »
    Fuxo wrote: »
    Magicka management is OK if you play a mage build in a robe with a (resto) staff. Equilibrium is also usable if you have other healers nearby. But some templars are actually those healers. Or they would like to play as tanks in heavy armor with a weapon. Then, magicka sustainability becomes a real problem.

    I just don't see how a Sorc that isn't in a mage build has it any better. When my Sorc is specced to tank or wearing medium armor, magicka is very tough and I have zero ability to regen it. I'm not using Dark Conversion on a stamina user.

    Is it just that Temp spells cost a lot? Weird that it is such a unanimous feeling in this thread but everyone seems wrong about how other classes (particularly Sorc as it is all I know) have it better.
    I now only play my V12 sorc, my V12 templar is parked and my V12 DK is just for PVP (but a lot of fun)

    I have used my sorc to tank a vet dung and yes mana regen was harder, but no where near the level of the templar.
    All templar class skills cost too much, and that is why most of our skills don't even get loaded on the bar. To get the best out of a DPS build, you mostly just use Mage Guild skill line.

    But the biggest difference between the sorc and the templar is the sorc passives work well across all class trees and some very useful skills.

    All sorc builds normally have 50%+ crit, Critical Surge in a real good self heal.
    The passives Unholy Knowledge, Capacitator & Expert Mage all lower your spell costs or increase mana regen.

    Templars get one, Restoring Spirit which we only get around L34 and maxed at L50 and no were as good as the first level of Unholy Knowledge.

    We don't want templars to be the same as sorc, but why do all classes have a one or two mana regen skills/passives and templars have skills 10% more costly across the board and no passives to make up for any of that?

    Well, the devs told us why in beta when they took away our mana regen passive. They do not want the templar to be able to self heal endlessly. But I can endless heal on my sorc with Critical Surge.

    Well Unholy KNowledge is 5% cost reduction. Capacitor is 10% regen which I think most people know by now is literally nothing with everyone being so far into the magicka regen soft cap. Expert Mage is 10% off of one skill tree. So no I don't see how sorc has it so much better when it comes to magicka. I think there are just a lot of non-light armor templars out there that have no clue that other classes wearing medium/heavy have the same issues.

    You just posted in another thread how your healer sorc has infinite magicka and it's a load of bull.
  • NatjurNatjur ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19
    Erock25 wrote: »
    You just posted in another thread how your healer sorc has infinite magicka and it's a load of bull.
    Test both sides, load into PST, create an instance V12 templar, V12 Sorc and V12 DK and just have a play with them youself and then tell me that they are balanced.

    I have them in Prod, but to save yourself time, get the instance one on PST. Before having a one sided view, try the other side out. The only class I don't have on prod at V12 is the NB, I gave up with them at L31 so I never comment on that class. Too many players complain on other classes but never even played them.

    My post was Sorc SELF healing = endless with crit surc, and running group runs, AS the healer, I have never run out of mana, due to always using my mana recovery skills (which templar's don't have)
    Post edited by Natjur on
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