Overall Gameplay too difficult?

claytonjhouserb14_ESO

I'm not a complainer and not here to down rate just here because I've had three of my friends quit from sheer difficulty. They love the environment and the emersion just when it comes down to gameplay it is just plain stressful. No body likes to die over and over just to finish what started as a simple quest or finish a dungeon just to find an over difficult boss. Many of us prefer single player gameplay but in many places this just isnt allowed. I'm vet rank 7 and have since given up trying to continue cause I continually die. I just wish they could move down the difficulty or remove vet ranks for more casual players or roleplayers just looking for a loretastic time. All opinions appreciated.

ers101284b14_ESO

I like not being able to face roll everything. I like that I can kill a mob then get owned by the next one. Helps me keep thinking of tactics to beat the enemies. I have died more in this mmo than any other, but after finishing fights I feel accomplished. ( I get frustrated sometimes and have to walk away then go back to the fight later )

Wolfshead

OP it should be hard to kill thing it should not be like WoW is you pull 5 to 10 mobs and you just stand there kill them off one by one thing is that blizzard have more or less destroy the mmo genre by make everything so easy in way you can face roll everything. I personal like that fact that you need to have some tactics think in fight but most boss fight are easy when you figure out how the fight and what spells the are going to use for after few death you have more or less figure what the are doing and then it is all about your timing when you go use potion or healing spells and so on.

Alphashado

claytonjhouserb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a complainer and not here to down rate just here because I've had three of my friends quit from sheer difficulty. They love the environment and the emersion just when it comes down to gameplay it is just plain stressful. No body likes to die over and over just to finish what started as a simple quest or finish a dungeon just to find an over difficult boss. Many of us prefer single player gameplay but in many places this just isnt allowed. I'm vet rank 7 and have since given up trying to continue cause I continually die. I just wish they could move down the difficulty or remove vet ranks for more casual players or roleplayers just looking for a loretastic time. All opinions appreciated.

Don't be ashamed to admit this. MANY people agree and are leaving the game due to this. I brought 3 friends with me from other games and two of them have already left. You will get plenty of "l2p" comments, or "you just suck" or "qq more nub" comments, but the fact is that an overwhelming silent majority of casual gamers agree with you. And they are leaving.

There is no middle ground. You either respec, research, min max, theory craft into the top cookie cutter builds (which makes you an above average gamer) or you die repeatedly on trash mobs while trying to walk down a path. Let alone solo quest. There is NO PLACE for a casual gamer after lvl 50.

In most other MMOs, casual gamers avoid dungeons and raids because that's where a higher standard of gaming skill is, and should be, required. They are ok with that. They just want to quest in peace, RP, maybe hang out with friends for some mildly challenging content and enjoy the game.

But in VR ESO, that is just not possible. There is nothing for a casual gamer to do. I knew the instant that I entered my first VR zone that a few of my casual friends were going to leave. And they did.

I have been very vocal about this because in order for a AAA MMO to succeed, there needs to a nich for every type of PAYING subscriber. And right now ESO is not.

I am vocal because I see the bigger picture here. I am doing fine at VR6. But casual players like my old friends are dropping off like flies, and that is a HUGE problem for this game that has such great potential.

sigsergv

Alphashado wrote: »

In most other MMOs, casual gamers avoid dungeons and raids because that's where a higher standard of gaming skill is, and should be, required. They are ok with that. They just want to quest in peace, RP, maybe hang out with friends for some mildly challenging content and enjoy the game.

But in VR ESO, that is just not possible. There is nothing for a casual gamer to do. I knew the instant that I entered my first VR zone that a few of my casual friends were going to leave. And they did.

I have been very vocal about this because in order for a AAA MMO to succeed, there needs to a nich for every type of PAYING subscriber. And right now ESO is not.

I am vocal because I see the bigger picture here. I am doing fine at VR6. But casual players like my old friends are dropping off like flies, and that is a HUGE problem for this game that has such great potential.

Exactly, punishing game mechanics destroys the game. And much worse: leaving people will put their friends off the game.

claytonjhouserb14_ESO

Exactly I'm rank 7 yet my closest friend is only at 26. They decided it was too frustrating and quit and now my other friends are as well and maybe I will soon because I'm becoming frustrated with being punished with playing the way I want to. I left wow for that reason and don't wish that to be an issue here. I did not wish this to be a hardcore cookie cutter. Hopefully they find middle ground soon so I can enjoy all content with my friends.

Tavore1138

I think they misjudged their mass market.

The obvious area for them to pull in new players was in the vast pool of people who loved TES games but had rarely or never played MMOs, with a few exceptions it seemed they had this right in the pre-VR content. Lots of lore, decent stories and so on.

But ultimately the TES brand has been about freedom to play in your own style, to explore with no purpose but to explore, to follow one questline but ignore others, to have a thousand viable flavours of 'build'.

VR content says 'no!'. You must play a build that has a particular set of skills or you will die, if you aren't a power gamer you will die, if you explore you will die & if you don't do every single quest, dungeon, WB and mob you will not progress.

If you mention any of this people will insult you or condescend to you as if not having lightning reflexes and the perfect MMO brain was somehow a failing in life.

I understand that for ZOS getting at least some of the existing MMO market was important but the real value lay in the TES brand and the pool of players available just dying to share their favourite world with like minded people. The MMO people will shake their heads and move on if this fails, the TES players will probably never venture online again and may never buy from Zenimax again.

In 'short' post Bal content needs to be accessible and rewarding to the majority of players if this game is going to sustain itself long term.

murklor007neb18_ESO

Its an Elder Scrolls game. Its not too difficult, its too random. Skyrim suffered the exact same issue, you never knew how difficult an opponent really was. In the same dungeon, you could laugh your way through 3 enemies and then meet another enemy that look exactly like the first ones, except it instantly kill you and has 10x hitpoint of the previous foes. ESO lives up to its legacy.

I just ended a little morning session and guess what epic final VR10 boss I faced? A werewolf with 1500hp. Yes, it was the boss. No I am not delusional. That's clearly how strong ZOS thinks VR10 werewolves are. Puny trolls? Pfah! Nothing compared to the MIGHT of a 1500hp boss werewolf. A white pack leader nonetheless!

Random game is random.

My advice on the general gameplay: Dont kill everything. Seriously, sneak around 75% of the enemies in a dungeon. Most 3 mob groups are avoidable (that apply to open world as well) - the rest should be just about as spaced that you can get your ultimate up on the 1 and 2 mob groups. Most bosses fall easier than the 3 mob groups so that really shouldnt be a problem. Some bosses, living up to the Elder Scrolls random difficulty legacy, are easier than their normal counterpart. Troll bosses with 12K HP make you *** your pants? Ha, they hit like wet noodles compared to the normal 9K trolls.

Most people thinking the game is too hard seem to intentionally make it too hard by smashing their heads against a brickwall and trying to roll through dungeons WoW style.

Worstluck

There are all kinds of balance issues in VR content in regards to NPC strength and I can tell you from playing the PTS they aren't fixing them or even acknowledging them. I usually have an easier time clearing packs of 6 mobs in Craglorn than a pack of three VR8 humanoid or skeleton mobs.

It didn't used to be this way. I solo'd all the vet content, with the exception of the content meant for a group (dolmens, world bosses, group dungeons, etc), the first time through. They buffed VR NPC strength in 1.1.2 and didn't put it in the patch notes. I struggle now with the same solo dungeons that I breezed through the first time when I had way worse gear, lower vr level and poor spec. Character strength means nothing when you have some random VR skeleton mob spamming special attack quick strikes for 400 every one second and weaving in 800-900 uppercuts.

SilverWF

Overall Gameplay too difficult?

Absolutely not.

Ninnghizhidda

Because, more or less, everything is quite OK and rosy until VR content, save a few occasions where fights can be quite frustrating, mainly due to bad design, bugs or just the environment (e.g. certain harvesters).

The moment you hit VR and start all over the adventures in the next alliance area, you realise something just ain't right. The more you (try to) progress there, the more you feel the game wants to "punish" you instead of "reward" you, well, for being in "endgame".

And "endgame" in ESO seems to be 2 whole alliances and all the content in them, meaning endless hours, days, months even, at least for the more "casual" player who will / can not be there 24/7 glued on the screen.

I would understand if "endgame" really meant a few quite challenging dungeons or special content (and I mean, really special). You could accept the challenge and enter that content, to test your skills, your prowess, to seek cool rewards, to obtain the "best". Fair enough. Probably not meant for just anyone.

What kind of gaming experience is this though, to go through 2 whole alliances with very modest rewards, if any, just to "progress" in levels, when you actually receive next to nothing. Would really be far, far better to just roll another alt and go 1-50 through that alliance and save yourself all the grief, if you really wanted to experience all the alliances / quests / content there.

I have not even mentioned how you are penalised even more in VR content if you happen NOT to have the "optimum" build (yeppers, "Harry Potter" again!) which would allow you to kill mobs and clear areas with relative ease, instead of getting slaughtered whenever there are more than two trash mobs together.

As I have said before, there is something quite rotten with the VR content. It is not really a question of "I just want to faceroll everything in God mode". It is a question of why, really, do I have to spend half the day to do even "normal" content and quests with dozens of deaths, trying to play the class / build I fancy. This is a different story, isn't it? And the real myth of ESO, when we were promised "play as you like, choose what you like to be".

edu.journeymanub17_ESO

They tried to fix it after Craglorn and several posts on the forum:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, just letting you know that this issue has been hotfixed, and VR content has been reverted back to the same difficulty prior to patch 1.1.2.

But the hotfix, it seems, is not working in all NPCs and some Devs just think there is a visual bug in the death recap that they are planing to fix.

Lots of players can come and say: L2P, but even the most hardcore will agree if they go do some stuff in veteran zones (except Craglorn) and have luck to find trash mobs that do damage like this:



It was insta-death for me, the skill for us, players, do like 50 damage each 0.5 sec for 3 seconds, but not for that archer, if that happens in PvP I bet that archer would be reported and banned for hacking...

My 2 cents.

Gisgo

claytonjhouserb14_ESO wrote: »

my closest friend is only at 26. They decided it was too frustrating and quit ...

We could even discuss about veteran ranks but at level 26 no matter your class/skillbar you faceroll anything on your path.

I suspect your friend just didnt like the game, it happens.

Irgin

Also: you are pretty much dead if you got a caster mob charging up right in front of you for only half a second, even if you manage to block/dodge you still get hit by 90% of your max health our you get oneshot - shouldnt be.

Zabalah

No... to the OP... bring it on!

I love that the game becomes more difficult as you progress, and you must rely on others to successfully complete goals.

This is the way MMOs are meant to be played.

Nuff said.

Alphashado

Zabalah wrote: »

No... to the OP... bring it on!

I love that the game becomes more difficult as you progress, and you must rely on others to successfully complete goals.

This is the way MMOs are meant to be played.

Nuff said.

Not quite nuff said. Grand theory you have there. In fact you are correct in saying that relying on other people to help you is part of an MMO. Problem is that in ESO a husband cannot even help his wife complete a mandatory quest.

malbaboeb17_ESO

edu.journeymanub17_ESO wrote: »

and have luck to find trash mobs that do damage like this:

It was insta-death for me

No, that's not insta-death. They have mentioned that "death cap" isn't perfect yet and it compresses "damage over time" from the same skill. What you see there, isn't "one hit" but several "smaller hits" from same skill.

Actually, Volley is a "rain of arrows" and if you took that kind of damage, means you didn't move out of the red circle on the floor, in time.

Dayv

claytonjhouserb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm not a complainer and not here to down rate just here because I've had three of my friends quit from sheer difficulty. They love the environment and the emersion just when it comes down to gameplay it is just plain stressful. No body likes to die over and over just to finish what started as a simple quest or finish a dungeon just to find an over difficult boss. Many of us prefer single player gameplay but in many places this just isnt allowed. I'm vet rank 7 and have since given up trying to continue cause I continually die. I just wish they could move down the difficulty or remove vet ranks for more casual players or roleplayers just looking for a loretastic time. All opinions appreciated.

I agree. I have also had friends leave because they just get sick of the difficulty. Some people seem to believe that this level of difficulty is what was intended or convince themselves that it isn't supposed to be soloable, anything but see that it is flawed. It appear to me that all they've really done is applied a simple multiplier to mob health and damage and virtually nothing else to adapt content to veteran levels. This is totally apparent when you see that all provisioning ingredients are the same level that they would be for 1 to 50. Likewise blues and purples start to drop more often as you get to the 4th and 5th regions in your first alliance. They drop more in VR4 and VR5 and suddenly change drop rate at VR6. Excessive difficulty scaling comes because damage mitigation from armor isn't scaling while mob damage is. This leaves the situation that a high magicka supply for damage mitigation through CC works so much better than armor which is why so many people are respeccing LA and staff. The high health of mobs also means that you need indefinite regen as well, you can't work on the principle of, I've got a full bar so I should be able to take these on with only a minor regen, you have to treat trash fights like you would a boss fight.

Cogo

ESO is not "to hard". It just requires more then pressing buttons to do most things.

Dying over and over against an encounter does not mean its to hard.
It can have a numbers of reasons.

The instances in ESO is a good example. You can be vet level and still fail a boss encounter if you just stand there and kill boss.

When you fail to win an encounter, you adapt, figure out what to do to overcome it. In group encounters, tactics, communication and teamwork is FAR more powerful then your level or even gear.

If you can not kill a single target, there are reasons for that too.

An example, I am a pure tank, I do very little damage and use a bow in solo.
The few times I have run into a troll and fight it, the fight takes a long time and IF I die, I used potions, kite it, whatever. But most times a troll is to much for me to solo. Solution? Bring another player to help.

One of the main reasons ESO is fun to play is exactly that everything isn't easy.

I would even go so far that I wouldnt mind encounters where most players simply can not beat it. This makes for a very interested target and maybe a Achievement if you do. There are far to many MMO where everyone can to everything. I am very pleased that I can not do kill everything easy, or at all, in ESO. It keeps it interesting.

edu.journeymanub17_ESO

malbaboeb17_ESO wrote: »

edu.journeymanub17_ESO wrote: »

and have luck to find trash mobs that do damage like this:

It was insta-death for me

No, that's not insta-death. They have mentioned that "death cap" isn't perfect yet and it compresses "damage over time" from the same skill. What you see there, isn't "one hit" but several "smaller hits" from same skill.

Actually, Volley is a "rain of arrows" and if you took that kind of damage, means you didn't move out of the red circle on the floor, in time.

Lets suppose you are right and the death recap is bugged, lets suppose I reached VR9 solo and I, still, don't know how to play, lets suppose I was NOT soloing the world bosses over the last 2 zones (Shadowfen and Eastmarch, VR8 and VR9 respectively) and lets suppose I was NOT duoing the last dolmen in Eastmarch some minutes before that screenshot because, well, I need to learn to play, right? Ok, lets suppose all I'm saying are lies.

It's your right to doubt, you don't know me after all.

Anyways, look at the damage of the best bow user Char you have, keep in mind that "volley" is not morphed, look at the damage I was taking from the other NPC and you can figure how much damage mitigation I have, right?

Lets suppose it took 3 seconds, yeah, 3 seconds is the amount of time you get with volley, but I'm pretty sure you know that.

If I say that the trash NPC killed me in 3 sec I can be trusted?

OFC, I could fake that numbers editing the screenshot with Photoshop, one can think...

Please, do us all a favor, if you don't believe me, go do some stuff in veteran zones that are not Craglorn, take special attention to undead archers, humanoid casters/archers and a few melee that use Fiery Breath/Dark Talons. Please, don't do that on PTS if you don't have a VR Char just because the build/table there is very dif from what we have in, at least for me, NA server.

steveb16_ESO46

Despite what all you hard guys and LTP merchants think - a lot of people don't find getting killed endlessly, getting huge repair bills all the time and having to grind through stupidly difficult trash mobs in a situation where only certain builds now cut it, fun.

We pay and play to have fun. VR is not fun for a lot of people so they and their money are vamoosing. Contrary to the bizarro-world logic prevelant here, this is actually a BAD thing not a good thing.

ESO will not survive as a quality sub MMO as a hard core grinder. Challenge is good but the crushing difficulty of even trash mobs unless you're in a dress and carrying sticks is and will drive customers away.

Cogo

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

ESO will not survive as a quality sub MMO as a hard core grinder. Challenge is good but the crushing difficulty of even trash mobs unless you're in a dress and carrying sticks is and will drive customers away.

Finally someone who understood that ESO is NOT about hard core grinding!!!

ESO is taking a risk by offering more to the player to do then endless grinding outside of raiding.

All MMO players are not interested in the same thing you know

Solanum

I personally do not believe the game is too difficult at all, however there are a few very noticeable issues:

-Mobs hit hard, which is fine, usually you have a second or so to react, which is ample time. Matters become different when latency enters the stage. (and this is likely to happen with a server for Europe still based in the USA)
Our ability to react is reduced by latency, meaning we often get hit while standing clear of the high damage one shot ability.

-Class imbalance,
Yes, I know there are Nightblades whom claim we are fine, and I personally managed quite well with my Nightblade, even being able to tank wielding a two hander, as a stamina build. (which is really, far from optimal)
Recently I rolled a Dragonknight, and the difference is insane.
The Vampire quest? I breezed trough that, as a pure melee character at level 18. (verus, level 42 mobs?) Not a single death.

-Build effectiveness.
Last but not least, certain types of builds are far more effective then others.
Overall, magica oriented builds are vastly more powerful then their stamina counterparts. (This is not to say that a very potent stamina/crit oriented build can't compete, exceptions will be there)


To add insult to injury we get some amazing tips after our gruesome demise.
! Heavy attacks deal more damage. (How this helps when oneshotted by burning oil, I do not know)


My advice? Experiment with builds, and if that fails, reroll Dragonknight or Sorcerer.

theyancey

Overall I think that the gameplay is OK. There needs to be ongoing tweeks and balances of course. As far as general PvE questing and ordinary mobs go I think that it is playable by just about everyone and if you can't have success solo you can use either a formal or informal group. The one area that is definitely too hard is solo dungeon end mob stuff. There needs to be ways for advanced players to feel challenged and reap rewards for running through it but there needs to be a path to victory for the casual player as well.

Dayv

This is an issue that keeps coming up on these forums again and again. If it isn't the biggest make or break issue this game has, it's certainly up there. There are people deserting because of it. I also acknowledge that there are some players seem to like this difficulty (I can't fathom why) but it's really about time ZoS addressed it. Either saying they intend to keep things this level of difficulty or they're going to make it more accessible for average players and tone it down. They know that this is an issue but keep sitting on the fence by alluding to upcoming changes to VR but mention nothing about the difficulty level. I just can't see this working on consoles the way it is now. It's about time ZOS gave us some feedback.

Cogo

There are players who wants a game that gives challenges and is harder to then most other MMOs, yes.

ESO is not for everyone, and I still do not understand how for example a WoW player, who is very happy with the WoW style where everything is supposed easy, would even look at ESO? (Wow is a great game for those who like it easy).

I am not the only MMO player who have waited for a MMO where you actually need to play it, and FAIL, so you can learn, adapt and oh...this is a big one..THINK about your game play.

edu.journeymanub17_ESO

Solanum wrote: »

The Vampire quest? I breezed trough that, as a pure melee character at level 18. (verus, level 42 mobs?) Not a single death.


My advice? Experiment with builds, and if that fails, reroll Dragonknight or Sorcerer.

I really hope we are talking the same language and after reading the OP, you know he is talking about veteran zones (VR) excluding Craglorn.

The one on my screenshot is a DK and, to be honest, I'm having a walk in the park with my 2 NB, yeah, two, in the lower level zones. Why I have 2 NB? They are my clothier and woodworker and I leveled them a bit, the one bosmer is at 43 in Reaper's March ATM and the imperial one is at 22 in Deshaan.

If you plan to play from 1-50 you will be just fine and feel good, have lots of fun, once you reach there, skip all veteran zones and go straight to Craglorn, otherwise you will either love it, like a few come here and say, or will be frustrated like some others.

Point taken, again, this is all about VR, veteran zones, right?

Have fun.

steveb16_ESO46

Cogo wrote: »

I am not the only MMO player who have waited for a MMO where you actually need to play it, and FAIL, so you can learn, adapt and oh...this is a big one..THINK about your game play.

You might not be the only one but do you think there are enough who think like you to maximise the profits for investors. I totally doubt it. Driving away a wider customer base will have investors screaming for F2P sooner rather than later. A lot of money went into this game and they'll be wanting it back in spades.

Alphashado

In the end it boils down to this:

Some people enjoy an extreme challenge from trash mobs.

Just as many if not more do not. Most are embarrassed to say they find the game too hard, so they quietly unsub and walk away. They don't want advice on how to play their character so that they can walk down a path w/o getting their head torn off.

ESO offers nothing in between. There is a giant wedge right down the middle of the player base and no MMO can afford to lose half their players either way.

Good MMO's offer the best of both worlds by keeping challenging content in dungeons and leaving trash mobs on the road and for solo quests a little toned down. People grumble a little, but for the most part everyone is happy.

ESO is losing more and more subs every day because they fail to understand this.

Cogo

If ESO are losing more players then I must be seeing things. The Rift was so overcrowded whole saturday that zone chat spammed down so much about, LFG, x Achor is up, Instance X looks for a damage dealer, Selling X, that I had to scroll up several times when I saw something I wanted to buy, or join a group.

I think people who dont like the game wants it to fail somehow. I dont understand this way of thinking, but its a free world. Say and think what you will.

Someone who states something without anything at all to back it up with, I just cant take that seriously.

Players who express their view on the game based on their playing experience, those I read. Whatever they say.

Those who goes "LOL, FAIL, free to play in a month". Thats just noise.....

steveb16_ESO46

Cogo wrote: »

I think people who dont like the game wants it to fail somehow. I dont understand this way of thinking, but its a free world. Say and think what you will.

Someone who states something without anything at all to back it up with, I just cant take that seriously.

Players who express their view on the game based on their playing experience, those I read. Whatever they say.

Those who goes "LOL, FAIL, free to play in a month". Thats just noise.....

You know - it's all very well to make things up in your head. They just have no place here.