Snipe

frostz417 · November 2018

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Yah you did:

"But when I’m figjting say 2 or 3 people. It’s unlikely I’m going to hear said snipe spammer, and I’m not just going to dodge all snipes while still fighting the other 2-3 people since they’re likely spamming cc’s and roots"

-- @frostz417

Hahahaha so that’s your only example of me talking about 1vX, guess that one example that I made of how snipe spam takes no skill means I speak on behalf of everyone who snipe spams

Metemsycosis · November 2018

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Frags and flares can be hard casted from the back of a group to devastating effect as well. Trying to figure out why you are singling out snipe over these couple others.

Because I can snipe someone for 14k in no cp.

If I did a pure dmg build on a magplar there’s no way I’d hit someone for 14k.

Even if true, which you haven't demonstrated, you're so sure that's related to snipe as opposed to how weapon damage scales vs spell damage?

Or rather tied to both race and class?
Stealth and crit mods

You think he's making up the numbers?

Here are two screenshots, each from a different player (one of whom was *maybe* CP 350'ish, meaning that he's probably not some super duper experienced PvP player), hitting me with snipes while I'm running ~24.5k resists and Minor Protection:

And here's another screenshot from when I didn't have quite as much defense built in:

Any "glass cannon" offensive build can most definitely be popped for ~14k by a single snipe. They most certainly won't be getting hit for 14k by Crystal Fragments or Dark Flares, though.

I see Crystal Fragments for < 5k all the time (often around 3 to 3.5k), and getting hit by Dark Flares is pretty rare. Not all that many Templars in PC-NA Battlegrounds even use the skill, and if they do it's much easier to avoid than Snipe is. When's the last time you didn't hear the Dark Flare noise until after you were hit at least once? Dark Flare is loud, obvious, and gives the sound when first cast...I often don't get any indication that a Snipe is on the way until after the first auto-crit from stealth has already landed, and if I'm already in a fight with someone else it's probably too late.

I'm asking why you don't see numbers like that from dark flare?

Knootewoot · November 2018

I wanted to have fun PvP this weekend, but I kepp dying, full impenetrable and radiant mage slotted, to a snipe+poison arrow+slice.
It's pretty annoying to have zero counterplay from a stamblade who does 3 attacks from stealth which all land at same time (by the looks of it)
And I know I am not the only one, as the bodies kept piling up from people trying to rez.

Oh well, after that I just kept within keep walls using siege and repairing where I can.

Hochstapler · November 2018

The tears from baddies flow at a constant rate in this thread lol.
Wonder who will be the first to ragequit and go back to Hello Kitty Online, where he belongs.

pdebie64b16_ESO · November 2018

Knootewoot wrote: »

I wanted to have fun PvP this weekend, but I kepp dying, full impenetrable and radiant mage slotted, to a snipe+poison arrow+slice.
It's pretty annoying to have zero counterplay from a stamblade who does 3 attacks from stealth which all land at same time (by the looks of it)
And I know I am not the only one, as the bodies kept piling up from people trying to rez.

Oh well, after that I just kept within keep walls using siege and repairing where I can.

You cant do 3 attacks from stealth at the same time because after the first attack you will be revealed. You can do 2 snipes in a row, first one from stealth, second one by using shadow disquise after using the second snipe, for a third you need to cast snipe again followed by shadow disquise again but it takes an extra second to cast because shadow disquise was in between.

killimandrosb16_ESO · November 2018

templesus wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Hochstapler wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

And there are reasons that essentially no Magicka builds actually run Radiant Magelight in Battlegrounds. Imagine if DK Wings only reflected snipes, and not anything else at all - how many of them do you think would slot it with any frequency?

Nobody should be doing 10k single shot damage through 24.5k Resistances and Minor Protection. Period. I don't care what sacrifices are made, that damage number is simply too extreme when compared to current HP levels and other class/weapon abilities.

Magelight adds critical rating too, pasively.
It's usefull skill to have sloted even if you can't afford to use it.

I run 28k HP StamDK in BGs with wings AND Evil hunter that costs whooping 5292 stamina to reveal stealthed Stamblades and Magblades and it's passives don't benefit me.
But that's what's needed in many matches so that's what I'm doing.
AND I have no problems killing anyone really, my usual score is 10-20 kills 0-4 deaths.

The snipers aren't doing well in my games, I can tell you that.

It's weird to me that you consider 10k snipe "simply too extreme", a build that turns a stamblade into a one trick pony with the super boring play style but you are ok with 7k Surprise attacks, insta cheap spamable that also stuns you from stealth, applies major fracture AND activates shadow ward (major resolve and major ward) AND it's just a perfect fit in any melee Stamblade build without sacrificing anything.

No mater how many times we discuss snipe, it always comes down to L2P issue.
I'm sorry but this is a fact.
Many just can't or are not willing to learn and adapt to ever changing PVP dynamics.

The snipe spamming zerglings saying L2P are the same people who cry about 1vXers being able to take on multiple people. LEaRn tO nOt GeT XeD oN.

This is to clarify for anyone who uses snipe: you are not, and will not, be viewed as anything more then below average. The ability takes too little skill to use and the gameplay commonly associated with it employs hide and seek tactics which are frowned upon. By all means “play how you wanna play” but don’t be upset when you’re insulted for it as it’s GOING to happen.

If ONE person who uses/is defending snipe posts a clip of them PvPing and any one of us asking for it to be nerfed deems you as a DECENT PvPer I will retract everything I’ve said about people with snipe slotted and resign with an L.

ONE PLAYER. ONE. And I’ll admit I was wrong about people who use snipe.

Well, Alcast is quite skilled, and he has a highly effective snipe build, although I dont think its his main toon :P

Lol this man just referenced an Alcast PvP build. Next.

you can lol as much as you want at @Alcast but fact is most of these very effective snipe builds come directly from him. You cant first complain about 10k+ snipes (and if you use his asylum bow with snipe and spray the snipe easily pass 15k) and then ridicule the theorycrafting behind it. I dont know anything about alcast as a pvp player, although I suspect he is probably above your league, it doesnt matter, what matters is a lot of players follow his suggestions and make solid builds out of it. Instead you should try to see how he mini-maxes gear and builds to create a situation where an eg. snipe builds overperforms most likely in relation to what was the developers idea when crafting the skills and the combination of them and gear.
I learn a lot from the ones bothering to go through the flames of jealousy and create their ideas and comments to classes. Often it gives me a different perspective to what at first seemed like a static situation. If you got offended I mentioned Alcast, Ill toss in Thogard instead if tht makes you happier. I believe he does a "toxic tuesday" every now and then, and im pretty sure he can adequately explain what is wrong about snipe and showcase it too :P

Eg. on the topic; I had a funny discussion about my magplars build a while ago, where this guy frowned upon the likes of alcast. He is from one of the guilds considered best in a guild vs guild setting. He spent a lot of time telling me the day before what a jerk alcast is, and that he doesnt know *** about pvp. Well the following day, I copy pasted alcasts build into the chat we had, and he praised me a lot for the understanding I had of the game, and even asked me for some of my opinion. I again copypasted from an alcast guide, and got a lot of happiness back. Same with Blobs, I used his bombblade build with a lot of success, and was asked what gear and abilities I used, when later I revealed it was indeed a blobs build suddenly the whole thing changed and I was told how *** it was :P

The fact you think Alcast is a good PvP player honestly tells me what I need to know about you.

The fact you are limited to one liners and base your assumptions of me on something which is totally unrelated to your assumptions honestly tells me all I need to know about you. I dont know his pvp skills, I know his character builds, and most snipers you encounter take their builds directly from him.

templesus · November 2018

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Hochstapler wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

And there are reasons that essentially no Magicka builds actually run Radiant Magelight in Battlegrounds. Imagine if DK Wings only reflected snipes, and not anything else at all - how many of them do you think would slot it with any frequency?

Nobody should be doing 10k single shot damage through 24.5k Resistances and Minor Protection. Period. I don't care what sacrifices are made, that damage number is simply too extreme when compared to current HP levels and other class/weapon abilities.

Magelight adds critical rating too, pasively.
It's usefull skill to have sloted even if you can't afford to use it.

I run 28k HP StamDK in BGs with wings AND Evil hunter that costs whooping 5292 stamina to reveal stealthed Stamblades and Magblades and it's passives don't benefit me.
But that's what's needed in many matches so that's what I'm doing.
AND I have no problems killing anyone really, my usual score is 10-20 kills 0-4 deaths.

The snipers aren't doing well in my games, I can tell you that.

It's weird to me that you consider 10k snipe "simply too extreme", a build that turns a stamblade into a one trick pony with the super boring play style but you are ok with 7k Surprise attacks, insta cheap spamable that also stuns you from stealth, applies major fracture AND activates shadow ward (major resolve and major ward) AND it's just a perfect fit in any melee Stamblade build without sacrificing anything.

No mater how many times we discuss snipe, it always comes down to L2P issue.
I'm sorry but this is a fact.
Many just can't or are not willing to learn and adapt to ever changing PVP dynamics.

The snipe spamming zerglings saying L2P are the same people who cry about 1vXers being able to take on multiple people. LEaRn tO nOt GeT XeD oN.

This is to clarify for anyone who uses snipe: you are not, and will not, be viewed as anything more then below average. The ability takes too little skill to use and the gameplay commonly associated with it employs hide and seek tactics which are frowned upon. By all means “play how you wanna play” but don’t be upset when you’re insulted for it as it’s GOING to happen.

If ONE person who uses/is defending snipe posts a clip of them PvPing and any one of us asking for it to be nerfed deems you as a DECENT PvPer I will retract everything I’ve said about people with snipe slotted and resign with an L.

ONE PLAYER. ONE. And I’ll admit I was wrong about people who use snipe.

Well, Alcast is quite skilled, and he has a highly effective snipe build, although I dont think its his main toon :P

Lol this man just referenced an Alcast PvP build. Next.

you can lol as much as you want at @Alcast but fact is most of these very effective snipe builds come directly from him. You cant first complain about 10k+ snipes (and if you use his asylum bow with snipe and spray the snipe easily pass 15k) and then ridicule the theorycrafting behind it. I dont know anything about alcast as a pvp player, although I suspect he is probably above your league, it doesnt matter, what matters is a lot of players follow his suggestions and make solid builds out of it. Instead you should try to see how he mini-maxes gear and builds to create a situation where an eg. snipe builds overperforms most likely in relation to what was the developers idea when crafting the skills and the combination of them and gear.
I learn a lot from the ones bothering to go through the flames of jealousy and create their ideas and comments to classes. Often it gives me a different perspective to what at first seemed like a static situation. If you got offended I mentioned Alcast, Ill toss in Thogard instead if tht makes you happier. I believe he does a "toxic tuesday" every now and then, and im pretty sure he can adequately explain what is wrong about snipe and showcase it too :P

Eg. on the topic; I had a funny discussion about my magplars build a while ago, where this guy frowned upon the likes of alcast. He is from one of the guilds considered best in a guild vs guild setting. He spent a lot of time telling me the day before what a jerk alcast is, and that he doesnt know *** about pvp. Well the following day, I copy pasted alcasts build into the chat we had, and he praised me a lot for the understanding I had of the game, and even asked me for some of my opinion. I again copypasted from an alcast guide, and got a lot of happiness back. Same with Blobs, I used his bombblade build with a lot of success, and was asked what gear and abilities I used, when later I revealed it was indeed a blobs build suddenly the whole thing changed and I was told how *** it was :P

The fact you think Alcast is a good PvP player honestly tells me what I need to know about you.

The fact you are limited to one liners and base your assumptions of me on something which is totally unrelated to your assumptions honestly tells me all I need to know about you. I dont know his pvp skills, I know his character builds, and most snipers you encounter take their builds directly from him.

Mhm. Next person up.

Kadoin · November 2018

Hochstapler wrote: »

The tears from baddies flow at a constant rate in this thread lol.
Wonder who will be the first to ragequit and go back to Hello Kitty Online, where he belongs.

I love these comments most. It kind of reminds me of the sorcs and shield stacking last patch. When it got nerfed, whose tears started flowing then? Who rage quit?

Make no mistake, with shield and roll changes, it's unlikely that both snipe and cloak will remain in their current conditions. They are on a trend of nerfing offense and defense that is too powerful, guess what snipe and cloak are?

PhoenixGrey · November 2018

Kadoin wrote: »

Hochstapler wrote: »

The tears from baddies flow at a constant rate in this thread lol.
Wonder who will be the first to ragequit and go back to Hello Kitty Online, where he belongs.

I love these comments most. It kind of reminds me of the sorcs and shield stacking last patch. When it got nerfed, whose tears started flowing then? Who rage quit?

Make no mistake, with shield and roll changes, it's unlikely that both snipe and cloak will remain in their current conditions. They are on a trend of nerfing offense and defense that is too powerful, guess what snipe and cloak are?

You are delusional if you think a forum blade skill will be nerfed. Little useless tweaks like the one with incap is the best you can expect

As OP as it might be, ZOS will be burning a hole in their pocket if they do decide a nerf.
Also messes with the ultimate vision of ZOS balance where everyone will be playing a stamblade

Metemsycosis · November 2018

you're right @PhoenixGrey

snipe is actually the new proxy bomb. Seems you cherry picked my point only to ignore its essence. Tsk tsk tsk

Ok

If you add dizzying or dawnbreaker to shalks you've exceeded the 15k single target damage, prolly still while running 30k health.

The dbos/shalks combo 100-0 people and still does. Not only that but it can 100-0 multiple people.
Why be disingenuous?

I was remarking on someone else's reference to snipe as a low risk high reward play when at best you get one target as opposed to shalks/steel tornado spam, which the op brought up, and has the potential to knock out multiple opponents at the same time. I don't have issues with any one combo in the game, AoE or not. Gotten to the point where I feel comfortable saying if I get beat it's no game mechanic to blame.

Also mind you I don't wanna nerf any class. I like that stamdens and stamsorcs exist I just wanna keep the counters to their powerful melee specs. That's where range comes into play and I don't think silver shards is the answer.

Again and finally, from 43 meters away I can take out maybe one player. Maybe. It's not a 1 shot so it's no guarantee. There are only a few ways around that gcd (using the flight time) from that range and most are tricky af to pull off. But because of it being at range doing the thing a bow is supposed to do, there is an issue even though there are still reasonably unrisky combos that hit harder than two Snipes back to back. (like daedric mines still crunch 5k /mine when specced properly, as one example)

Knootewoot · November 2018

pdebie64b16_ESO wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

I wanted to have fun PvP this weekend, but I kepp dying, full impenetrable and radiant mage slotted, to a snipe+poison arrow+slice.
It's pretty annoying to have zero counterplay from a stamblade who does 3 attacks from stealth which all land at same time (by the looks of it)
And I know I am not the only one, as the bodies kept piling up from people trying to rez.

Oh well, after that I just kept within keep walls using siege and repairing where I can.

You cant do 3 attacks from stealth at the same time because after the first attack you will be revealed. You can do 2 snipes in a row, first one from stealth, second one by using shadow disquise after using the second snipe, for a third you need to cast snipe again followed by shadow disquise again but it takes an extra second to cast because shadow disquise was in between.

If I release my snipe I only leave stealth when it hits. So before it hits I can do a surprise or ambush attack from stealth and at the same moment snipe will hit.

I can even from stealth do a snipe and immediate a poison injection and spam ambush. Most of the times the snipe and poison and the ambush will hit at same time. And only then I am pulled out of stealth.
Since I am not good in animation cancelling I think it's not hard for other people to do it.

Amdar_Godkiller · November 2018

The skill is supposed to have 1.1 second channel but it can be spammed after the intial shot is fired. The first three then all hit at the same time for 20K damage plus procs and enchantments. It's an exploit. And if ZOS hasn't declared it as such, you know when it happens to you how *** it is. Only trash players use snipe.

PhoenixGrey · November 2018

Metemsycosis wrote: »

you're right @PhoenixGrey

snipe is actually the new proxy bomb. Seems you cherry picked my point only to ignore its essence. Tsk tsk tsk

Ok

If you add dizzying or dawnbreaker to shalks you've exceeded the 15k single target damage, prolly still while running 30k health.

The dbos/shalks combo 100-0 people and still does. Not only that but it can 100-0 multiple people.
Why be disingenuous?

I was remarking on someone else's reference to snipe as a low risk high reward play when at best you get one target as opposed to shalks/steel tornado spam, which the op brought up, and has the potential to knock out multiple opponents at the same time. I don't have issues with any one combo in the game, AoE or not. Gotten to the point where I feel comfortable saying if I get beat it's no game mechanic to blame.

Also mind you I don't wanna nerf any class. I like that stamdens and stamsorcs exist I just wanna keep the counters to their powerful melee specs. That's where range comes into play and I don't think silver shards is the answer.

Again and finally, from 43 meters away I can take out maybe one player. Maybe. It's not a 1 shot so it's no guarantee. There are only a few ways around that gcd (using the flight time) from that range and most are tricky af to pull off. But because of it being at range doing the thing a bow is supposed to do, there is an issue even though there are still reasonably unrisky combos that hit harder than two Snipes back to back. (like daedric mines still crunch 5k /mine when specced properly, as one example)

The dbos/ shalks combo is not a guaranteed crit. You have better chances of surviving that ulti dump if you know its coming and try avoid its conal impact. Can't say the same for snipe which usually comes with a health desync/ does not respect its cast time/ guaranteed crit / from stealth and sound cue is always delayed. Counterplay exists for snipe but its only on paper.

I would go as far as saying if NB's didnt exist I would be prepared to live with the current broken state of snipe

Thogard · November 2018

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

you're right @PhoenixGrey

snipe is actually the new proxy bomb. Seems you cherry picked my point only to ignore its essence. Tsk tsk tsk

Ok

If you add dizzying or dawnbreaker to shalks you've exceeded the 15k single target damage, prolly still while running 30k health.

The dbos/shalks combo 100-0 people and still does. Not only that but it can 100-0 multiple people.
Why be disingenuous?

I was remarking on someone else's reference to snipe as a low risk high reward play when at best you get one target as opposed to shalks/steel tornado spam, which the op brought up, and has the potential to knock out multiple opponents at the same time. I don't have issues with any one combo in the game, AoE or not. Gotten to the point where I feel comfortable saying if I get beat it's no game mechanic to blame.

Also mind you I don't wanna nerf any class. I like that stamdens and stamsorcs exist I just wanna keep the counters to their powerful melee specs. That's where range comes into play and I don't think silver shards is the answer.

Again and finally, from 43 meters away I can take out maybe one player. Maybe. It's not a 1 shot so it's no guarantee. There are only a few ways around that gcd (using the flight time) from that range and most are tricky af to pull off. But because of it being at range doing the thing a bow is supposed to do, there is an issue even though there are still reasonably unrisky combos that hit harder than two Snipes back to back. (like daedric mines still crunch 5k /mine when specced properly, as one example)

The dbos/ shalks combo is not a guaranteed crit. You have better chances of surviving that ulti dump if you know its coming and try avoid its conal impact. Can't say the same for snipe which usually comes with a health desync/ does not respect its cast time/ guaranteed crit / from stealth and sound cue is always delayed. Counterplay exists for snipe but its only on paper.

I would go as far as saying if NB's didnt exist I would be prepared to live with the current broken state of snipe

Agreed. Snipe is primarily a problem only when used by the nightblade class.

to talk about balancing snipe without factoring in the NB class is to ignore how the ability is actually being used.

Also there’s nothing stopping a stamden from beetles + snipe + DBoS. That would hit harder than beetles + dizzy + DBoS.

eliisra · November 2018

Hochstapler wrote: »

The tears from baddies flow at a constant rate in this thread lol.
Wonder who will be the first to ragequit and go back to Hello Kitty Online, where he belongs.

It's way more challenging to play Hello Kitty Online, than killing someone with Snipe from stealth though lol.

Beating another player in Hello Kitty mini-games requires about ten times more brain activity than sniping from 40+ meters way. Just FYI.

Koensol · November 2018

Kinda funny to see the repeated argument of "ooh but I sacrifice defense in order to do that damage!". Let me tell you, this is not even relevant when you can sit in the back of your zerg spamming snipe and deleting people like its nothing with 8k snipes. Oh, people are coming close? Cloak and run. I know what I am talking about because years ago, I used to be a snipe user. I would repeatedly kill people without them ever having the chance to do anything back. When you actually have played other playstyles, only then you will realize how broken easy it is to get kills with it.

Don't you ever wonder why every new player in this game that wants to use a bow, ends up spamming snipe? Its simple:
1. Its easy
2. It hits like a truck
3. It is mostly risk free

End of story.

Girl_Number8 · November 2018

frostz417 wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

My advice against snipers is invest into immovable detect pots.

Immovs last 15 seconds as well as detect pots. Plus I’m not going to detect some garbage zergling whos 40+ meters away. Try again.

Well, if you are a good solo or small group player then you should know all the counters. Though since you're complaining about the second shooter on the grassy knoll maybe you don't.

Sharee · November 2018

Koensol wrote: »

Kinda funny to see the repeated argument of "ooh but I sacrifice defense in order to do that damage!". Let me tell you, this is not even relevant when you can sit in the back of your zerg spamming snipe and deleting people like its nothing with 8k snipes. Oh, people are coming close? Cloak and run. I know what I am talking about because years ago, I used to be a snipe user. I would repeatedly kill people without them ever having the chance to do anything back. When you actually have played other playstyles, only then you will realize how broken easy it is to get kills with it.

Don't you ever wonder why every new player in this game that wants to use a bow, ends up spamming snipe? Its simple:
1. Its easy
2. It hits like a truck
3. It is mostly risk free

End of story.

Unless you are standing next to the wayshrine, there is no such thing as risk-free in cyrodiil.

Theignson · November 2018

Knootewoot wrote: »

I wanted to have fun PvP this weekend, but I kepp dying, full impenetrable and radiant mage slotted, to a snipe+poison arrow+slice.
It's pretty annoying to have zero counterplay from a stamblade who does 3 attacks from stealth which all land at same time (by the looks of it).

Yes, NB can do this. Snipe, Light attack, incap and bash can land at the same time. This does a huge amount of damage (or kills immediately), major fracture, stun, then executioner finishes it. Dead in 1.1 seconds.(This has happened to me with >30k health, 2800 crit resist, 27000 resists).

My main advice to avoid this: never stand still in a battlefield-- ever-- even if stealthed. To land incap, they have to be within 5 meters. If you are jiggying around it is much harder for them.

Listen for the sound of either snipe or incap and react immediately.

Also don't run or ride in straight lines.

Stealth yourself immediately, circle back and get them. They are usually squishy.

Maybe some of the skilled gankers commenting on this post can offer other tips.

But sometimes they get you.

frostz417 · November 2018

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

My advice against snipers is invest into immovable detect pots.

Immovs last 15 seconds as well as detect pots. Plus I’m not going to detect some garbage zergling whos 40+ meters away. Try again.

Well, if you are a good solo or small group player then you should know all the counters. Though since you're complaining about the second shooter on the grassy knoll maybe you don't.

I can totally counter being health desync’d from 100-0% health totally.
I can also counter playing Bg’s while playing something like chaos ball and fighting the ball carrier naturally then just dropping dead as the sound of snipe casting never registered because some kid is camping at his spawn snipe spamming.
I can also counter once again playin Bg’s and being with my group only to just get stunned from absolutely nothing then dying as I got cc’d From snipe and then couldn’t cc break because you know. Zos can’t code, then getting desync’d while in steal. Totally able to be countered yea. I’m being sarcastic btw

Metemsycosis · November 2018

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

you're right @PhoenixGrey

snipe is actually the new proxy bomb. Seems you cherry picked my point only to ignore its essence. Tsk tsk tsk

Ok

If you add dizzying or dawnbreaker to shalks you've exceeded the 15k single target damage, prolly still while running 30k health.

The dbos/shalks combo 100-0 people and still does. Not only that but it can 100-0 multiple people.
Why be disingenuous?

I was remarking on someone else's reference to snipe as a low risk high reward play when at best you get one target as opposed to shalks/steel tornado spam, which the op brought up, and has the potential to knock out multiple opponents at the same time. I don't have issues with any one combo in the game, AoE or not. Gotten to the point where I feel comfortable saying if I get beat it's no game mechanic to blame.

Also mind you I don't wanna nerf any class. I like that stamdens and stamsorcs exist I just wanna keep the counters to their powerful melee specs. That's where range comes into play and I don't think silver shards is the answer.

Again and finally, from 43 meters away I can take out maybe one player. Maybe. It's not a 1 shot so it's no guarantee. There are only a few ways around that gcd (using the flight time) from that range and most are tricky af to pull off. But because of it being at range doing the thing a bow is supposed to do, there is an issue even though there are still reasonably unrisky combos that hit harder than two Snipes back to back. (like daedric mines still crunch 5k /mine when specced properly, as one example)

The dbos/ shalks combo is not a guaranteed crit. You have better chances of surviving that ulti dump if you know its coming and try avoid its conal impact. Can't say the same for snipe which usually comes with a health desync/ does not respect its cast time/ guaranteed crit / from stealth and sound cue is always delayed. Counterplay exists for snipe but its only on paper.

I would go as far as saying if NB's didnt exist I would be prepared to live with the current broken state of snipe

A more interesting take but what I figured: a nerf cloak thread in disguise.
I have a problem with the game not working properly as well (health desync, lack of cue, etc). I said so from the start. Bc when games working you can counter. If you can counter no need for balance.

frostz417 · November 2018

Metemsycosis wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

you're right @PhoenixGrey

snipe is actually the new proxy bomb. Seems you cherry picked my point only to ignore its essence. Tsk tsk tsk

Ok

If you add dizzying or dawnbreaker to shalks you've exceeded the 15k single target damage, prolly still while running 30k health.

The dbos/shalks combo 100-0 people and still does. Not only that but it can 100-0 multiple people.
Why be disingenuous?

I was remarking on someone else's reference to snipe as a low risk high reward play when at best you get one target as opposed to shalks/steel tornado spam, which the op brought up, and has the potential to knock out multiple opponents at the same time. I don't have issues with any one combo in the game, AoE or not. Gotten to the point where I feel comfortable saying if I get beat it's no game mechanic to blame.

Also mind you I don't wanna nerf any class. I like that stamdens and stamsorcs exist I just wanna keep the counters to their powerful melee specs. That's where range comes into play and I don't think silver shards is the answer.

Again and finally, from 43 meters away I can take out maybe one player. Maybe. It's not a 1 shot so it's no guarantee. There are only a few ways around that gcd (using the flight time) from that range and most are tricky af to pull off. But because of it being at range doing the thing a bow is supposed to do, there is an issue even though there are still reasonably unrisky combos that hit harder than two Snipes back to back. (like daedric mines still crunch 5k /mine when specced properly, as one example)

The dbos/ shalks combo is not a guaranteed crit. You have better chances of surviving that ulti dump if you know its coming and try avoid its conal impact. Can't say the same for snipe which usually comes with a health desync/ does not respect its cast time/ guaranteed crit / from stealth and sound cue is always delayed. Counterplay exists for snipe but its only on paper.

I would go as far as saying if NB's didnt exist I would be prepared to live with the current broken state of snipe

A more interesting take but what I figured: a nerf cloak thread in disguise.
I have a problem with the game not working properly as well (health desync, lack of cue, etc). I said so from the start. Bc when games working you can counter. If you can counter no need for balance.

I’m not advocating nerfing cloak, I don’t care for it to be nerfed. I deal with it just fine. Although I’d find it funny if they got nerfed to see all the Nb tears who are carried by cloak

NuarBlack · November 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Frags and flares can be hard casted from the back of a group to devastating effect as well. Trying to figure out why you are singling out snipe over these couple others.

Because I can snipe someone for 14k in no cp.

If I did a pure dmg build on a magplar there’s no way I’d hit someone for 14k.

WTF is your build cause I played BGs all weekend and the hardest I got hit by snipe all weekend was 8k. Most were in the 4-5k range. My build I was running tops out at 18762 physical resist and that's when I remember to keep major resolve up as I'm bad at the new build I was running. Also only 3 pieces of impen. Only time I died was when health desync happened or I was going to die already likely cause I was in a 1vX situation. I killed way more snipers than killed me.

The hardest hitting snipe build I know of is:
5 x Swamp Raiders
5 x Morag Tong(Spriggans if you want better penetration and damage on heavy builds)
2 x Molag Kenna

And that still can't be played the snipe, cloak, snipe, cloak way as you have to proc Kenna. It's better to land a bursted combo of snipe and spectral bow simultaneously. sometimes even after you really expose yourself to use incap if you want to kill tankier targets with good healing. I suppose you could run balrog but that means using an ult to power up snipe and this would be best on a dk using corrosive armor not a NB. I know DK bow users are gaining popularity but OP seems to have a particular problem with NBs.

NuarBlack · November 2018

And I guess the Asylum bow builds out there can hit hard but again require arrow spray in the rotation, a 20m skill not 40m so half the distance everyone cries about.

NuarBlack · November 2018

frostz417 wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

My advice against snipers is invest into immovable detect pots.

Immovs last 15 seconds as well as detect pots. Plus I’m not going to detect some garbage zergling whos 40+ meters away. Try again.

Well, if you are a good solo or small group player then you should know all the counters. Though since you're complaining about the second shooter on the grassy knoll maybe you don't.

I can totally counter being health desync’d from 100-0% health totally.
I can also counter playing Bg’s while playing something like chaos ball and fighting the ball carrier naturally then just dropping dead as the sound of snipe casting never registered because some kid is camping at his spawn snipe spamming.
I can also counter once again playin Bg’s and being with my group only to just get stunned from absolutely nothing then dying as I got cc’d From snipe and then couldn’t cc break because you know. Zos can’t code, then getting desync’d while in steal. Totally able to be countered yea. I’m being sarcastic btw

Again your problem is with health desync not snipe. You haven't presented a problem specific to snipe. Either it's the fact the game has bad netcode(desync), zergs(bad pvp modes), or NBs skill interactions with snipe have over tuned synergy(an issue that needs NB evaluated).

Metemsycosis · November 2018

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

My advice against snipers is invest into immovable detect pots.

Immovs last 15 seconds as well as detect pots. Plus I’m not going to detect some garbage zergling whos 40+ meters away. Try again.

Well, if you are a good solo or small group player then you should know all the counters. Though since you're complaining about the second shooter on the grassy knoll maybe you don't.

I can totally counter being health desync’d from 100-0% health totally.
I can also counter playing Bg’s while playing something like chaos ball and fighting the ball carrier naturally then just dropping dead as the sound of snipe casting never registered because some kid is camping at his spawn snipe spamming.
I can also counter once again playin Bg’s and being with my group only to just get stunned from absolutely nothing then dying as I got cc’d From snipe and then couldn’t cc break because you know. Zos can’t code, then getting desync’d while in steal. Totally able to be countered yea. I’m being sarcastic btw

Again your problem is with health desync not snipe. You haven't presented a problem specific to snipe. Either it's the fact the game has bad netcode(desync), zergs(bad pvp modes), or NBs skill interactions with snipe have over tuned synergy(an issue that needs NB evaluated).

Bingo

PhoenixGrey · November 2018

Metemsycosis wrote: »

A more interesting take but what I figured: a nerf cloak thread in disguise.
I have a problem with the game not working properly as well (health desync, lack of cue, etc). I said so from the start. Bc when games working you can counter. If you can counter no need for balance.

Counterplay is only one part of it. Let me ask you this. If procc'd cFrag was a guaranteed crit will you be ok with it for which I am pretty sure the damage will be nowhere as close as a snipe

Its not a nerf cloak thread. How you deal with the problem is not my call to make unlike a lot of forumblades who at this point I am pretty convinced are ZOS dev's in disguise

kitty79 · November 2018

(sorry for my english and if i have not read all, difficult to translate)

i play snipe, and dont forget that a snipe cant really do something against a dragon knight, reflective scale and it's a wondefull self kill...

40m no risk? not always easy to shoot the good target except if you come closer, and if you dont kill your target escape is not always easy....

DK are deadly with reflective scale
warden are very difficult to kill
and sorcerer ..... did i need to talk about flame reach?

ok snipe deal a lots of damage, it made for, 10k, 13k and more, but to make max damage the sniper sacrifice any resistance.
and each time he miss his target, he is nearly condamn.

[Deleted User] · November 2018

Hello everyone,

Reminder for everyone to keep the Forum Rules in mind and to keep the flaming and baiting out of the discussion. We've already had to remove several posts for unneeded back and forth, any continuation of this behavior will only lead to action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

pdebie64b16_ESO · November 2018

kitty79 wrote: »

(sorry for my english and if i have not read all, difficult to translate)

i play snipe, and dont forget that a snipe cant really do something against a dragon knight, reflective scale and it's a wondefull self kill...

40m no risk? not always easy to shoot the good target except if you come closer, and if you dont kill your target escape is not always easy....

DK are deadly with reflective scale
warden are very difficult to kill
and sorcerer ..... did i need to talk about flame reach?

ok snipe deal a lots of damage, it made for, 10k, 13k and more, but to make max damage the sniper sacrifice any resistance.
and each time he miss his target, he is nearly condamn.

And 40m range only works on flat terrain and Cyro and even more BG's arent that flat, how longer the range how more obstackles.