Snipe

Zeromaz · November 2018

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Loaded question. The answer is - because snipe is not broken. Not talking about health desyncs and such of course, that's a server code problem not an ability problem.

My point is you are always overlooking the actual context and look at the ability in a vacuum. Like, snipe is a long range, spammable ability, that does more damage than some ultimates AND applies major defile. Try looking past zerg vs zerg and 1v1 for a second here. Imagine two teams fighting in BG. Team 2 has a sniper that stands on a ledge and spams snipe on one player literally non stop, every second. That player is going to be permanently defiled, and forced to hold block, spam cleanse or spam dodge to be able to survive. If he has any pressure from another enemy and no chance to find cover, he is screwed. Magicka classes that get permasnared and rooted are 100% doomed by a snipe spammer focussing them. I have seen complete groups fail, because there is some braindead sniper spamming snipe on their healer. Meanwhile the snipespammer comfortably sits at safe range and has a MAJOR role in the outcome of the fight, with absolutely zero effort.

How is this in anyway balanced? Like for real man. Spammable defile at range with a ton of damage. This ability is beyond broken outside of a 1v1.

Why is your healer staying in LOS of the sniper? If the sniper is not reachable on a ledge, he is also unable to follow.
Why isn't your own sniper putting pressure on the enemy sniper to push him into defensive? Etc. etc.

"It hurts me at long range" does not equal to broken. Sorry.

Mate, it's not like you always see the sniper coming, do you? If you stay in he open you are a fool, because you will get ranged down by anyone, not just snipers. But in some matches you don't have a choice. Like chaosball where you have to kill the ball carrier and there is an enemy sniper on the spawn ledge, or the map called the quarry which is really open.

If there is a sniper on the spawn ledge, use ranged attacks to kill him/make him retreat. Use your own ranged attacks to focus down the ball carrier from beyond the sniper's range.

Bu let me guess. Dual axes/2H/DBOS/spintowin meta. No ranged attacks on your own team worth mentioning. And when you run into a scenario that punishes pure melee team setups, instead of adjusting you come on the forum and demand ranged attacks be nerfed. How typical.

Why do you think ZOS put all those ledges in the battlegrounds?

I have no problems with other ranged attacks or ranged playstyles. Just snipe. And I have explained to you why. But I suppose you think it is fine to have 100% uptime on defile and hit people with 6k+ attacks each second from range. There is no other ability like it. The only thing that comes close is dark flare.

Also, LOL at suggesting to run a snipe spammer yourself. A player with even an ounce of skill can accomplish a lot more with a real build. Snipe spamming just carries the bads and allows them to get kills in xv1. They are always the ones who get the kill on people who are already in trouble, making it impossible for them to recover. Which is way too much influence for this easymode playstyle. In any fair fight or 1v1 they get absolutely destroyed.

That says it all.... i’m a bad. If it weren’t for you i would have kept thinking i was doing alright

Thogard · November 2018

There’s a big difference between ganking someone at point blank range - which risks exposing a cloaked ganker and makes escape harder, and ganking from 40m.

Even if the 40m gank fails 5 times, the ganker is not putting themselves at risk in the attempt, and they can continue to try.

The risk of these attempted long range tanks needs to coincide with their effective dmg and debuffs. Currently it is a riskless ganking attempt.

Juhasow · November 2018

JobooAGS wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

The thing with snipe is that this ability currently breaks 2 rules devs created and nerfed bunch of other abilities and sets to achieve that. Rules are : not having easy acces to stun and burst dmg at 1 same ability (nerfs to crystal frag , deep fissure etc) and not having acces to strong sources of major defile allowing to keep almost 100% uptime without sacrifices (nerfs to reverb bash , duroks bane etc). ZoS literally nerfed abilities or sets that had acces to 1 of that features and left untouched ability that is capable to have both of that features at the same time. Then they also addes 28 meters range at scatter shot...

To be fair scattershot needed the range increase to better syrengize with the rest of the skill line, though arguably there are some bugs with the knockback that need addressing. Many want to swap rapid fire and snipe

Having knockback ability with the same or higher range like the rest of the abilities someone is using is actually opposite to synergizing with skill line. Look at temnplar javelin. They took away knockback because it was completly not synergizing with rest of the abilities since You were knocking enemy away from other abilities range. There is chance for that with scatter shot currently. Knockbak had sense for scatter shot when it was 10 meters range ability because it was "last line of defense" when enemy camed too close to archer so he could knock him back stun him and reposition himself. 10 meters range was also prevenmting from spamming draining shot and stucking enemy in knockback. Currently with 28 meters range (36+ in PvP) of scatter shot archer can react much earlier and simply dont allow enemy to come too close so knockback should be removed and only 1,5 sec stun should left. That would do both balance ability out and get rid of knockback ZoS cant fix.

Juhasow · November 2018

Thogard wrote: »

There’s a big difference between ganking someone at point blank range - which risks exposing a cloaked ganker and makes escape harder, and ganking from 40m.

Even if the 40m gank fails 5 times, the ganker is not putting themselves at risk in the attempt, and they can continue to try.

The risk of these attempted long range tanks needs to coincide with their effective dmg and debuffs. Currently it is a riskless ganking attempt.

NEW FEATURE : After using snipe You get 3 seconds reveal effect (similar to what's happening when get caught by magelight

Thogard · November 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

There’s a big difference between ganking someone at point blank range - which risks exposing a cloaked ganker and makes escape harder, and ganking from 40m.

Even if the 40m gank fails 5 times, the ganker is not putting themselves at risk in the attempt, and they can continue to try.

The risk of these attempted long range tanks needs to coincide with their effective dmg and debuffs. Currently it is a riskless ganking attempt.

NEW FEATURE : After using snipe You get 3 seconds reveal effect (similar to what's happening when get caught by magelight

That’d be nice.

JobooAGS · November 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

The thing with snipe is that this ability currently breaks 2 rules devs created and nerfed bunch of other abilities and sets to achieve that. Rules are : not having easy acces to stun and burst dmg at 1 same ability (nerfs to crystal frag , deep fissure etc) and not having acces to strong sources of major defile allowing to keep almost 100% uptime without sacrifices (nerfs to reverb bash , duroks bane etc). ZoS literally nerfed abilities or sets that had acces to 1 of that features and left untouched ability that is capable to have both of that features at the same time. Then they also addes 28 meters range at scatter shot...

To be fair scattershot needed the range increase to better syrengize with the rest of the skill line, though arguably there are some bugs with the knockback that need addressing. Many want to swap rapid fire and snipe

Having knockback ability with the same or higher range like the rest of the abilities someone is using is actually opposite to synergizing with skill line. Look at temnplar javelin. They took away knockback because it was completly not synergizing with rest of the abilities since You were knocking enemy away from other abilities range. There is chance for that with scatter shot currently. Knockbak had sense for scatter shot when it was 10 meters range ability because it was "last line of defense" when enemy camed too close to archer so he could knock him back stun him and reposition himself. 10 meters range was also prevenmting from spamming draining shot and stucking enemy in knockback. Currently with 28 meters range (36+ in PvP) of scatter shot archer can react much earlier and simply dont allow enemy to come too close so knockback should be removed and only 1,5 sec stun should left. That would do both balance ability out and get rid of knockback ZoS cant fix.

The mag version of javelin still knocks (changes were only made to stam javelin) back and there is clench

Zos should code scattershot like javelin where you can still break free mid knockback while having the heal proc if the stun ends or if broken free of

wheem_ESO · November 2018

Hochstapler wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

If 10k damage is balanced against 24.5k Physical Resistance and 8% damage reduction from Minor Protection, what about 12k? 20k? 500k? At what point do you start to consider the damage perhaps being just a little too high? Or is there no limit, and just citing a "ganking playstyle" is supposedly a legitimate defense of it no matter what?

10k ranged hit sounds high when you look at it in a 'vacuum' and if theres no defence or counter against it.
Tanks in NoCP PVP have between 27-30k HP.
The sniper needs 3-5 snipes (depending on lucky crits after he breaks stealth) to kill a still standing non healing, non dodging, non blocking tank.
That's a 3 to 5 shot against an AFKer!
To do that the sniper has no defence what-so-ever, it's 3 sets of WD/Crit/Pen, all divines.
He has a magicka pool for 3 cloaks, thats 7.5 seconds of invisibility.
Easy to find ,catch and kill for anyone with a gap closer and expert hunter or Magelight sloted.
Radiant magelight is better option because only by slotting it you prevent the stun from the first snipe.

And if you don't feel like chasing the sniper, don't forget to keep block up when you are rebuffing yourself or to dodge roll periodically when you can afford it or when you hear the incoming snipe.
Both those actions are helpfull against many more things then snipes.

Looks balanced to me.

The health desync tech issue is bad yes but it's not exclusive issue to snipe combos.
Same happens when you get hit by any combo really, you just insta drop dead on your screen, while on your opponent's screen it took few seconds to execute the combo.

I can count the number of 27-30k HP players I see in high MMR PC-NA Battlegrounds on one hand, and in many cases they're not very useful for their team at all, so that's not a good judge to go by. Still, snipe builds are more effective against them than many other things, what with the damage and uptime on Major Defile. I know I certainly couldn't knock out 27-30k hp on a tank build in 3-5 global cooldowns on my Magicka Warden, even if they were AFK. And while I do in fact have more ability to take damage than a sniper does, it's not like I have a very long life expectancy vs the same Stam builds that run them over.

And there are reasons that essentially no Magicka builds actually run Radiant Magelight in Battlegrounds. Imagine if DK Wings only reflected snipes, and not anything else at all - how many of them do you think would slot it with any frequency?

Nobody should be doing 10k single shot damage through 24.5k Resistances and Minor Protection. Period. I don't care what sacrifices are made, that damage number is simply too extreme when compared to current HP levels and other class/weapon abilities.

Hochstapler · November 2018

wheem_ESO wrote: »

And there are reasons that essentially no Magicka builds actually run Radiant Magelight in Battlegrounds. Imagine if DK Wings only reflected snipes, and not anything else at all - how many of them do you think would slot it with any frequency?

Nobody should be doing 10k single shot damage through 24.5k Resistances and Minor Protection. Period. I don't care what sacrifices are made, that damage number is simply too extreme when compared to current HP levels and other class/weapon abilities.

Magelight adds critical rating too, pasively.
It's usefull skill to have sloted even if you can't afford to use it.

I run 28k HP StamDK in BGs with wings AND Evil hunter that costs whooping 5292 stamina to reveal stealthed Stamblades and Magblades and it's passives don't benefit me.
But that's what's needed in many matches so that's what I'm doing.
AND I have no problems killing anyone really, my usual score is 10-20 kills 0-4 deaths.

The snipers aren't doing well in my games, I can tell you that.

It's weird to me that you consider 10k snipe "simply too extreme", a build that turns a stamblade into a one trick pony with the super boring play style but you are ok with 7k Surprise attacks, insta cheap spamable that also stuns you from stealth, applies major fracture AND activates shadow ward (major resolve and major ward) AND it's just a perfect fit in any melee Stamblade build without sacrificing anything.

No mater how many times we discuss snipe, it always comes down to L2P issue.
I'm sorry but this is a fact.
Many just can't or are not willing to learn and adapt to ever changing PVP dynamics.

Hochstapler · November 2018

Exodium · November 2018

Honestly if you're a sniper you're just admitting to yourself that you're straight garbage and have absolutely no skill, nor any intention to learn a rotation that doesn't revolve around "cloak --> cloak --> snipe snipe snipe --> cloak --> cloak.

What a miserable way to play the game you god damn oxygen thieves.

But anyways, a dead sniper makes for a good t-bag sesion so that's always a plus.

NupidStoob · November 2018

Hochstapler wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

And there are reasons that essentially no Magicka builds actually run Radiant Magelight in Battlegrounds. Imagine if DK Wings only reflected snipes, and not anything else at all - how many of them do you think would slot it with any frequency?

Nobody should be doing 10k single shot damage through 24.5k Resistances and Minor Protection. Period. I don't care what sacrifices are made, that damage number is simply too extreme when compared to current HP levels and other class/weapon abilities.

Magelight adds critical rating too, pasively.
It's really usefull skill to have sloted even if you can't afford to use it.

I run 28k HP StamDK in BGs with wings AND Evil hunter that costs whooping 5292 stamina to reveal stealthed Stamblades and Magblades and it's passives don't benefit me.
But that's what's needed in many matches so that's what I'm doing.
AND I have no problems killing anyone really, my usual score is 10-20 kills 0-4 deaths.

The snipers aren't doing well in my games, I can tell you that.

It's weird to me that you consider 10k snipe "simply too extreme", a build that turns a stamblade into a one trick pony with the super boring play style but you are ok with 7k Surprise attacks, insta cheap spamable that also stuns you from stealth, applies major fracture AND activates shadow ward (major resolve and major ward) AND it's just a perfect fit in any melee Stamblade build without sacrificing anything.

No mater how many times we discuss snipe, it always comes down to L2P issue.
I'm sorry but this is a fact.

No it isn't. The problem is that it's a pretty much 0 risk high reward skill. I want to see what you do when you actually play against someone who knows what hes doing and won't engage you at all unless you are already fighting someone else and under pressure, preferably not even having proper LoS close. Someone who actually counts CC immunity and times it, because thats what a good snipe player would do. If the hp desynced or there was enough other noise to cover the snipe sound you will simply drop dead.

I don't mind snipe too much myself, but I have two issues with it:
- The desync/not consistent warning to start counterplay
- ZoS's inconsistency when it comes to their statements. They say they don't want hard hitting stunning abilities and even nerfed deep fissure/sub assault retroactively, yet this one skill remains unchanged.

Hochstapler · November 2018

NupidStoob wrote: »

I want to see what you do when you actually play against someone who knows what hes doing and won't engage you at all unless you are already fighting someone else and under pressure, preferably not even having proper LoS close. Someone who actually counts CC immunity and times it, because thats what a good snipe player would do. If the hp desynced or there was enough other noise to cover the snipe sound you will simply drop dead.

I don't mind snipe too much myself, but I have two issues with it:
- The desync/not consistent warning to start counterplay
- ZoS's inconsistency when it comes to their statements. They say they don't want hard hitting stunning abilities and even nerfed deep fissure/sub assault retroactively, yet this one skill remains unchanged.

If I encounter experienced player like in your example, I might die, I might not.
If he beats me it wouldn't be because of snipe but because he is a better player then me.
I don't come across experienced snipers on PC EU at all so I can't say.
The way i see it, it's mostly new players that are still in a learning process that find snipe gank builds attractive because they can actually score a kill here and there with it while they are only Balista foder in melee range.
I don't know of any vet player that plays snipe builds full time in BGs or Cyrodiil.
It's a very restrictive and boring play style.

NuarBlack · November 2018

JobooAGS wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

The thing with snipe is that this ability currently breaks 2 rules devs created and nerfed bunch of other abilities and sets to achieve that. Rules are : not having easy acces to stun and burst dmg at 1 same ability (nerfs to crystal frag , deep fissure etc) and not having acces to strong sources of major defile allowing to keep almost 100% uptime without sacrifices (nerfs to reverb bash , duroks bane etc). ZoS literally nerfed abilities or sets that had acces to 1 of that features and left untouched ability that is capable to have both of that features at the same time. Then they also addes 28 meters range at scatter shot...

To be fair scattershot needed the range increase to better syrengize with the rest of the skill line, though arguably there are some bugs with the knockback that need addressing. Many want to swap rapid fire and snipe

The bow skill line is a mess it's true. But swapping snipe and rapid fire would be less than optimal. Snipe just needs a complete redesign to actually fulfill its role as a proper spammable and scattershot could have its range reduced to maybe 20m like arrow spray so it fullfills its role as a skill to use when forced into CQC. As whatever ends up being bows spammable needs to synergize well with the Hawk Eye and long shots passives. I'd prefer an instant cast or shorter cast speed with no self snare. Maybe lower the damage a little and maybe change it to minor defile on the poison morph. Getting rid of the ridiculous arch and travel time will help with the desync burst potential but also make run and gun non gank blade bow users more viable. Problem is ZOS thinks super long travel times is how you balance range abilities despite abundant and cheap and spammable gap closers. This might be true for proc burst skills like crystal frags and grim focus but a spamable needs to land reliably. By their logic all melee spamables should be as bad as wrecking blow.

Hochstapler · November 2018

Silver shards plays the roll of a stamina range spamable.
It's also AoE, snares and passively boosts WD.

wheem_ESO · November 2018

Hochstapler wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

And there are reasons that essentially no Magicka builds actually run Radiant Magelight in Battlegrounds. Imagine if DK Wings only reflected snipes, and not anything else at all - how many of them do you think would slot it with any frequency?

Nobody should be doing 10k single shot damage through 24.5k Resistances and Minor Protection. Period. I don't care what sacrifices are made, that damage number is simply too extreme when compared to current HP levels and other class/weapon abilities.

Magelight adds critical rating too, pasively.
It's usefull skill to have sloted even if you can't afford to use it.

I run 28k HP StamDK in BGs with wings AND Evil hunter that costs whooping 5292 stamina to reveal stealthed Stamblades and Magblades and it's passives don't benefit me.
But that's what's needed in many matches so that's what I'm doing.
AND I have no problems killing anyone really, my usual score is 10-20 kills 0-4 deaths.

The snipers aren't doing well in my games, I can tell you that.

It's weird to me that you consider 10k snipe "simply too extreme", a build that turns a stamblade into a one trick pony with the super boring play style but you are ok with 7k Surprise attacks, insta cheap spamable that also stuns you from stealth, applies major fracture AND activates shadow ward (major resolve and major ward) AND it's just a perfect fit in any melee Stamblade build without sacrificing anything.

No mater how many times we discuss snipe, it always comes down to L2P issue.
I'm sorry but this is a fact.
Many just can't or are not willing to learn and adapt to ever changing PVP dynamics.

There's lots of stuff that should be adjusted to some degree or another. In general, for no-CP, I think both damage and healing need to come down a bit in PvP, in order to smooth out the HP spiking back and forth quite so much.

Still, if you're getting hit for 7k Surprise Attacks on the regular, the 10k Snipes that I'm referring to would be hitting you for more than they do me. To be honest, I don't even see all that many melee Stamblades around right now at the high MMR brackets on PC-NA (perhaps due to there being about 400 thousand Stam Sorcs running around?) I can think of a few good players on melee Stamblades that I see somewhat regularly, who probably do end up with a bit more damage than they should, but they're not really worse than the snipers when adding onto a fight. And I don't think I've eaten any 7k Surprise Attacks lately.

NuarBlack · November 2018

Hochstapler wrote: »

Silver shards plays the roll of a stamina range spamable.
It's also AoE, snares and passively boosts WD.

Uh no. Maybe just read the bow passives to see why this is such an ignorant statement.

Hochstapler · November 2018

NuarBlack wrote: »

Hochstapler wrote: »

Silver shards plays the roll of a stamina range spamable.
It's also AoE, snares and passively boosts WD.

Uh no. Maybe just read the bow passives to see why this is such an ignorant statement.

You can both dream about some super cool bow spamable of your design AND use available alternatives in the meantime.
What's the problem?

Hochstapler · November 2018

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Still, if you're getting hit for 7k Surprise Attacks on the regular, the 10k Snipes that I'm referring to would be hitting you for more than they do me. To be honest, I don't even see all that many melee Stamblades around right now at the high MMR brackets on PC-NA (perhaps due to there being about 400 thousand Stam Sorcs running around?) I can think of a few good players on melee Stamblades that I see somewhat regularly, who probably do end up with a bit more damage than they should, but they're not really worse than the snipers when adding onto a fight. And I don't think I've eaten any 7k Surprise Attacks lately.

Surprise attack hits me in 4-5k range usually, not sure if that's a non crit.
I saw a thread where someone was complaining about getting hit for 7K+ by SA from 2 different players so that's why I mentioned it.
It doesn't change the fact that it's the best and most effective spamable in game, one click of a button does high damage, stun, buff and debuff and can be spamed , with additional perk of freeing up a slot because you don't even need a finisherwith it, it's that good.
And here we are talking about a bow skill that you need to sacrifice everything for just to be able to kill a potato or two.

PS: Just to make it clear why I'm defending Snipers even though they force me to change and adjust builds, changes that are not to my liking.
Snipers keep me on my toes, force me to bring my A-game every time I enter PVP zone and they are forcing me to improve my situational awerness (many players have a "tunnel vision syndrom").

Basically, stealth assasins in general and snipe gankers in particular make us all better players, believe it or not.

Without them combat would be boring AF, for me.

Feanor · November 2018

I’d just say that tying a high damage ability to an audio cue is bad design.

The_Lex · November 2018

I've been thinking about rolling a bow Warden, just as some thing new. I usually play tanky, in-your-face, brawler types, so I thought this could be an interesting break. Here's my question:

Is everyone's problem with Snipe itself, or Snipe with cloak?

I ask because, as a Warden, I was planning on a straight up archer using a burst combo of Snipe, Shalks, and PI. I really want avoid being labeled as "trash." Lol

Sharee · November 2018

The_Lex wrote: »

I've been thinking about rolling a bow Warden, just as some thing new. I usually play tanky, in-your-face, brawler types, so I thought this could be an interesting break. Here's my question:

Is everyone's problem with Snipe itself, or Snipe with cloak?

I ask because, as a Warden, I was planning on a straight up archer using a burst combo of Snipe, Shalks, and PI. I really want avoid being labeled as "trash." Lol

Players who can't handle something killing them usually try two approachs. One, they try to make the devs nerf whatever is killing them, and two, if it doesnt work they try to guilt the other players into feeling bad for using it.

Don't let them. Bow is a legitimate weapon. Anyone who tries to label you "trash" for using it does so because he is trash himself, unable to handle what is a natural part of PvP.

Koensol · November 2018

Can we please add a defile to wrecking blow as well? I mean people could just dOdGe, BlOcK oR pUrGe, right?

Aliyavana · November 2018

Hochstapler wrote: »

Threads like this are always made by triggered baddies and they go nowhere because of some simple logics.
Ability or play style that has many different counters isn't broken, it works exactly as intended in a rock-paper-scissors combat of MMORPGs.
When something's really broken or overperforms by a large margin it gets fixed/patched, sometimes fast sometimes takes longer, depending on the severity of overperformance.
Snipe has been around for a long time and it isn't touched by devs, that should tell you something.
People try to help and list all the counters and give advices on how to adapt and overcome but no, let's ignore all that and keep on moaning.
Tears will keep on flowing and that's that.

A snipe defender calling people bad?

Aliyavana · November 2018

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i have never played an mmo that had bow set to do as weak and little damage as it does here in eso.

Bow doesn't do weak damage tho?

NuarBlack · November 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i have never played an mmo that had bow set to do as weak and little damage as it does here in eso.

Bow doesn't do weak damage tho?

It does outside of gankblades and health desync allowing glitched burst combo of multiple snipes registering simultaneously. Especially if you compare it to what most heavy brawlers can do. There is nothing equivalent to ravager a bow user can use. 7th or Fury isn't that viable on bow either. This means you have to stack 2 damage sets to get what a heavy brawlers gets with 1. People talk about how cheap being at range is when melee brawlers can slap on one of those 3 sets and then another powerful defensive or sustain set and still get 3-4k wep damage and 25k-cap resistance or great sustain. Mag could complain but while their heavy armor options are poor they can still use a light offensive set that is better than anything a bow user can. BSW, Spell strategist, Moon Hunter, scathing are all better than Auto, swamp, Briarheart, Veiled, that a bow user can theoretically use. Spriggans is the same as spinners and perhaps there are some clever alchemist bow users still out there but not gank blades since they changed it to needing to be in combat.

So in conclusion until every other play style has to sacrifice damage to get their niche stats a bow user who does sacrifices defense and sustain to get theirs is par for the course.

Hochstapler · November 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

A snipe defender calling people bad?

Yes?

pdebie64b16_ESO · November 2018

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Loaded question. The answer is - because snipe is not broken. Not talking about health desyncs and such of course, that's a server code problem not an ability problem.

My point is you are always overlooking the actual context and look at the ability in a vacuum. Like, snipe is a long range, spammable ability, that does more damage than some ultimates AND applies major defile. Try looking past zerg vs zerg and 1v1 for a second here. Imagine two teams fighting in BG. Team 2 has a sniper that stands on a ledge and spams snipe on one player literally non stop, every second. That player is going to be permanently defiled, and forced to hold block, spam cleanse or spam dodge to be able to survive. If he has any pressure from another enemy and no chance to find cover, he is screwed. Magicka classes that get permasnared and rooted are 100% doomed by a snipe spammer focussing them. I have seen complete groups fail, because there is some braindead sniper spamming snipe on their healer. Meanwhile the snipespammer comfortably sits at safe range and has a MAJOR role in the outcome of the fight, with absolutely zero effort.

How is this in anyway balanced? Like for real man. Spammable defile at range with a ton of damage. This ability is beyond broken outside of a 1v1.

Why is your healer staying in LOS of the sniper? If the sniper is not reachable on a ledge, he is also unable to follow.
Why isn't your own sniper putting pressure on the enemy sniper to push him into defensive? Etc. etc.

"It hurts me at long range" does not equal to broken. Sorry.

Mate, it's not like you always see the sniper coming, do you? If you stay in he open you are a fool, because you will get ranged down by anyone, not just snipers. But in some matches you don't have a choice. Like chaosball where you have to kill the ball carrier and there is an enemy sniper on the spawn ledge, or the map called the quarry which is really open.

If there is a sniper on the spawn ledge, use ranged attacks to kill him/make him retreat. Use your own ranged attacks to focus down the ball carrier from beyond the sniper's range.

Bu let me guess. Dual axes/2H/DBOS/spintowin meta. No ranged attacks on your own team worth mentioning. And when you run into a scenario that punishes pure melee team setups, instead of adjusting you come on the forum and demand ranged attacks be nerfed. How typical.

Why do you think ZOS put all those ledges in the battlegrounds?

I have no problems with other ranged attacks or ranged playstyles. Just snipe. And I have explained to you why. But I suppose you think it is fine to have 100% uptime on defile and hit people with 6k+ attacks each second from range. There is no other ability like it. The only thing that comes close is dark flare.

Also, LOL at suggesting to run a snipe spammer yourself. A player with even an ounce of skill can accomplish a lot more with a real build. Snipe spamming just carries the bads and allows them to get kills in xv1. They are always the ones who get the kill on people who are already in trouble, making it impossible for them to recover. Which is way too much influence for this easymode playstyle. In any fair fight or 1v1 they get absolutely destroyed.

I shall tell you a little secret, there are no fair fights in PvP

Sharee wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

I've been thinking about rolling a bow Warden, just as some thing new. I usually play tanky, in-your-face, brawler types, so I thought this could be an interesting break. Here's my question:

Is everyone's problem with Snipe itself, or Snipe with cloak?

I ask because, as a Warden, I was planning on a straight up archer using a burst combo of Snipe, Shalks, and PI. I really want avoid being labeled as "trash." Lol

Players who can't handle something killing them usually try two approachs. One, they try to make the devs nerf whatever is killing them, and two, if it doesnt work they try to guilt the other players into feeling bad for using it.

Don't let them. Bow is a legitimate weapon. Anyone who tries to label you "trash" for using it does so because he is trash himself, unable to handle what is a natural part of PvP.

Well said,

And playing a sniper is more then spamming 1 button, actualy i need both of my skill bars offence and defense, if you have problems with snipers adept or keep crying and begging for nerfs.

Metemsycosis · November 2018

pdebie64b16_ESO wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Loaded question. The answer is - because snipe is not broken. Not talking about health desyncs and such of course, that's a server code problem not an ability problem.

My point is you are always overlooking the actual context and look at the ability in a vacuum. Like, snipe is a long range, spammable ability, that does more damage than some ultimates AND applies major defile. Try looking past zerg vs zerg and 1v1 for a second here. Imagine two teams fighting in BG. Team 2 has a sniper that stands on a ledge and spams snipe on one player literally non stop, every second. That player is going to be permanently defiled, and forced to hold block, spam cleanse or spam dodge to be able to survive. If he has any pressure from another enemy and no chance to find cover, he is screwed. Magicka classes that get permasnared and rooted are 100% doomed by a snipe spammer focussing them. I have seen complete groups fail, because there is some braindead sniper spamming snipe on their healer. Meanwhile the snipespammer comfortably sits at safe range and has a MAJOR role in the outcome of the fight, with absolutely zero effort.

How is this in anyway balanced? Like for real man. Spammable defile at range with a ton of damage. This ability is beyond broken outside of a 1v1.

Why is your healer staying in LOS of the sniper? If the sniper is not reachable on a ledge, he is also unable to follow.
Why isn't your own sniper putting pressure on the enemy sniper to push him into defensive? Etc. etc.

"It hurts me at long range" does not equal to broken. Sorry.

Mate, it's not like you always see the sniper coming, do you? If you stay in he open you are a fool, because you will get ranged down by anyone, not just snipers. But in some matches you don't have a choice. Like chaosball where you have to kill the ball carrier and there is an enemy sniper on the spawn ledge, or the map called the quarry which is really open.

If there is a sniper on the spawn ledge, use ranged attacks to kill him/make him retreat. Use your own ranged attacks to focus down the ball carrier from beyond the sniper's range.

Bu let me guess. Dual axes/2H/DBOS/spintowin meta. No ranged attacks on your own team worth mentioning. And when you run into a scenario that punishes pure melee team setups, instead of adjusting you come on the forum and demand ranged attacks be nerfed. How typical.

Why do you think ZOS put all those ledges in the battlegrounds?

I have no problems with other ranged attacks or ranged playstyles. Just snipe. And I have explained to you why. But I suppose you think it is fine to have 100% uptime on defile and hit people with 6k+ attacks each second from range. There is no other ability like it. The only thing that comes close is dark flare.

Also, LOL at suggesting to run a snipe spammer yourself. A player with even an ounce of skill can accomplish a lot more with a real build. Snipe spamming just carries the bads and allows them to get kills in xv1. They are always the ones who get the kill on people who are already in trouble, making it impossible for them to recover. Which is way too much influence for this easymode playstyle. In any fair fight or 1v1 they get absolutely destroyed.

I shall tell you a little secret, there are no fair fights in PvP

Sharee wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

I've been thinking about rolling a bow Warden, just as some thing new. I usually play tanky, in-your-face, brawler types, so I thought this could be an interesting break. Here's my question:

Is everyone's problem with Snipe itself, or Snipe with cloak?

I ask because, as a Warden, I was planning on a straight up archer using a burst combo of Snipe, Shalks, and PI. I really want avoid being labeled as "trash." Lol

Players who can't handle something killing them usually try two approachs. One, they try to make the devs nerf whatever is killing them, and two, if it doesnt work they try to guilt the other players into feeling bad for using it.

Don't let them. Bow is a legitimate weapon. Anyone who tries to label you "trash" for using it does so because he is trash himself, unable to handle what is a natural part of PvP.

Well said,

And playing a sniper is more then spamming 1 button, actualy i need both of my skill bars offence and defense, if you have problems with snipers adept or keep crying and begging for nerfs.

Obvi.

And that one button spam accusation is worth a laugh. (Who's crying about blockcaster breath of lifers?) (Still?)

-to get gaudy numbers as a Sniper you sacrifice a lot of defense, at least directly or speaking of ones stats. Against weaker opponents you get thogards video, which is entertaining. He's admittedly no stamblade main and in that video is likely fighting a lower mmr tier of players. Take any good build and half your skill against inexperienced or poor players and this is the result. Consider the source*.

In reality I look forward to encountering enemy snipers because I know once I find em I can land a licking, and win. Against a more balanced build, or against any organized group, snipe sucks because channeled attacks typically suck, doesn't matter if it's melee or ranged, the time to react ought to be there. When it is you have counterplay.

Another point lost:

In an AvAvA game, outside of a duel even if you're ranged you're not always safe. Sorry. I call l2p; good players Dodge a snipe, and speed into the attacker, while elites pop a pot and end the fight. That's just how it is. The poorer players fall.

*For the record I find it amusing when literal buy to win players (players only successful when they have bought the class) somehow find moral ground to make fun of someone else when they're capable of the same damage numbers except AoE and with no limit and tend to play a mode which encourages not sniping but aoe ult dumping.

Lol

Tryxus · November 2018

Thogard wrote: »

Snipe needs the streak treatment.

The defense to snipe - roll dodge - has exponential cost increase if you spam it.

No reason why snipe shouldn’t have the same thing to prevent people from spamming it while still allowing tactical usage of a still absurdly powerful skill.

Beginning the snipe channel should also pull a player out of hiding / stealth / cloak.

Streak treatment eh?

How about instead of increasing the cost, the damage gets decreased by 50% on successive casts?

Kadoin · November 2018

Hochstapler wrote: »

It's weird to me that you consider 10k snipe "simply too extreme", a build that turns a stamblade into a one trick pony with the super boring play style but you are ok with 7k Surprise attacks, insta cheap spamable that also stuns you from stealth, applies major fracture AND activates shadow ward (major resolve and major ward) AND it's just a perfect fit in any melee Stamblade build without sacrificing anything.

No mater how many times we discuss snipe, it always comes down to L2P issue.
I'm sorry but this is a fact.
Many just can't or are not willing to learn and adapt to ever changing PVP dynamics.

The difference is that I have a chance to actually see my enemy and hold block before they ever get me with melee skills, wait to roll at the right time, or enter stealth myself. I can then simply snare, stun, drop an AoE, or even bash to uncloak them and go on the offense.

Lethal Arrrow from a range? Less chance to dodge it, and no real "counter" besides spamming crushing shock and poison arrow since you cannot even tell when they actually have the skill charged or not once you get a certain distance (animation bugs), assuming the person can even be interrupted.

Combine that with bow's stupid knockback and I honestly don't know how any "sniper" can die besides utter incompetence, esp. on an NB.

Also wearing medium armor does not mean you are "glass". Esp. not in this patch.