Hochstapler wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

And there are reasons that essentially no Magicka builds actually run Radiant Magelight in Battlegrounds. Imagine if DK Wings only reflected snipes, and not anything else at all - how many of them do you think would slot it with any frequency?

Nobody should be doing 10k single shot damage through 24.5k Resistances and Minor Protection. Period. I don't care what sacrifices are made, that damage number is simply too extreme when compared to current HP levels and other class/weapon abilities.

Magelight adds critical rating too, pasively.
It's usefull skill to have sloted even if you can't afford to use it.

I run 28k HP StamDK in BGs with wings AND Evil hunter that costs whooping 5292 stamina to reveal stealthed Stamblades and Magblades and it's passives don't benefit me.
But that's what's needed in many matches so that's what I'm doing.
AND I have no problems killing anyone really, my usual score is 10-20 kills 0-4 deaths.

The snipers aren't doing well in my games, I can tell you that.

It's weird to me that you consider 10k snipe "simply too extreme", a build that turns a stamblade into a one trick pony with the super boring play style but you are ok with 7k Surprise attacks, insta cheap spamable that also stuns you from stealth, applies major fracture AND activates shadow ward (major resolve and major ward) AND it's just a perfect fit in any melee Stamblade build without sacrificing anything.

No mater how many times we discuss snipe, it always comes down to L2P issue.
I'm sorry but this is a fact.
Many just can't or are not willing to learn and adapt to ever changing PVP dynamics.

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Hochstapler wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

And there are reasons that essentially no Magicka builds actually run Radiant Magelight in Battlegrounds. Imagine if DK Wings only reflected snipes, and not anything else at all - how many of them do you think would slot it with any frequency?

Nobody should be doing 10k single shot damage through 24.5k Resistances and Minor Protection. Period. I don't care what sacrifices are made, that damage number is simply too extreme when compared to current HP levels and other class/weapon abilities.

Magelight adds critical rating too, pasively.
It's usefull skill to have sloted even if you can't afford to use it.

I run 28k HP StamDK in BGs with wings AND Evil hunter that costs whooping 5292 stamina to reveal stealthed Stamblades and Magblades and it's passives don't benefit me.
But that's what's needed in many matches so that's what I'm doing.
AND I have no problems killing anyone really, my usual score is 10-20 kills 0-4 deaths.

The snipers aren't doing well in my games, I can tell you that.

It's weird to me that you consider 10k snipe "simply too extreme", a build that turns a stamblade into a one trick pony with the super boring play style but you are ok with 7k Surprise attacks, insta cheap spamable that also stuns you from stealth, applies major fracture AND activates shadow ward (major resolve and major ward) AND it's just a perfect fit in any melee Stamblade build without sacrificing anything.

No mater how many times we discuss snipe, it always comes down to L2P issue.
I'm sorry but this is a fact.
Many just can't or are not willing to learn and adapt to ever changing PVP dynamics.

The snipe spamming zerglings saying L2P are the same people who cry about 1vXers being able to take on multiple people. LEaRn tO nOt GeT XeD oN.

This is to clarify for anyone who uses snipe: you are not, and will not, be viewed as anything more then below average. The ability takes too little skill to use and the gameplay commonly associated with it employs hide and seek tactics which are frowned upon. By all means “play how you wanna play” but don’t be upset when you’re insulted for it as it’s GOING to happen.

If ONE person who uses/is defending snipe posts a clip of them PvPing and any one of us asking for it to be nerfed deems you as a DECENT PvPer I will retract everything I’ve said about people with snipe slotted and resign with an L.

ONE PLAYER. ONE. And I’ll admit I was wrong about people who use snipe.

Well, Alcast is quite skilled, and he has a highly effective snipe build, although I dont think its his main toon :P

killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Hochstapler wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

And there are reasons that essentially no Magicka builds actually run Radiant Magelight in Battlegrounds. Imagine if DK Wings only reflected snipes, and not anything else at all - how many of them do you think would slot it with any frequency?

Nobody should be doing 10k single shot damage through 24.5k Resistances and Minor Protection. Period. I don't care what sacrifices are made, that damage number is simply too extreme when compared to current HP levels and other class/weapon abilities.

Magelight adds critical rating too, pasively.
It's usefull skill to have sloted even if you can't afford to use it.

I run 28k HP StamDK in BGs with wings AND Evil hunter that costs whooping 5292 stamina to reveal stealthed Stamblades and Magblades and it's passives don't benefit me.
But that's what's needed in many matches so that's what I'm doing.
AND I have no problems killing anyone really, my usual score is 10-20 kills 0-4 deaths.

The snipers aren't doing well in my games, I can tell you that.

It's weird to me that you consider 10k snipe "simply too extreme", a build that turns a stamblade into a one trick pony with the super boring play style but you are ok with 7k Surprise attacks, insta cheap spamable that also stuns you from stealth, applies major fracture AND activates shadow ward (major resolve and major ward) AND it's just a perfect fit in any melee Stamblade build without sacrificing anything.

No mater how many times we discuss snipe, it always comes down to L2P issue.
I'm sorry but this is a fact.
Many just can't or are not willing to learn and adapt to ever changing PVP dynamics.

The snipe spamming zerglings saying L2P are the same people who cry about 1vXers being able to take on multiple people. LEaRn tO nOt GeT XeD oN.

This is to clarify for anyone who uses snipe: you are not, and will not, be viewed as anything more then below average. The ability takes too little skill to use and the gameplay commonly associated with it employs hide and seek tactics which are frowned upon. By all means “play how you wanna play” but don’t be upset when you’re insulted for it as it’s GOING to happen.

If ONE person who uses/is defending snipe posts a clip of them PvPing and any one of us asking for it to be nerfed deems you as a DECENT PvPer I will retract everything I’ve said about people with snipe slotted and resign with an L.

ONE PLAYER. ONE. And I’ll admit I was wrong about people who use snipe.

Well, Alcast is quite skilled, and he has a highly effective snipe build, although I dont think its his main toon :P

Metemsycosis wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Metemsycosis wrote: »

pdebie64b16_ESO wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Loaded question. The answer is - because snipe is not broken. Not talking about health desyncs and such of course, that's a server code problem not an ability problem.

My point is you are always overlooking the actual context and look at the ability in a vacuum. Like, snipe is a long range, spammable ability, that does more damage than some ultimates AND applies major defile. Try looking past zerg vs zerg and 1v1 for a second here. Imagine two teams fighting in BG. Team 2 has a sniper that stands on a ledge and spams snipe on one player literally non stop, every second. That player is going to be permanently defiled, and forced to hold block, spam cleanse or spam dodge to be able to survive. If he has any pressure from another enemy and no chance to find cover, he is screwed. Magicka classes that get permasnared and rooted are 100% doomed by a snipe spammer focussing them. I have seen complete groups fail, because there is some braindead sniper spamming snipe on their healer. Meanwhile the snipespammer comfortably sits at safe range and has a MAJOR role in the outcome of the fight, with absolutely zero effort.

How is this in anyway balanced? Like for real man. Spammable defile at range with a ton of damage. This ability is beyond broken outside of a 1v1.

Why is your healer staying in LOS of the sniper? If the sniper is not reachable on a ledge, he is also unable to follow.
Why isn't your own sniper putting pressure on the enemy sniper to push him into defensive? Etc. etc.

"It hurts me at long range" does not equal to broken. Sorry.

Mate, it's not like you always see the sniper coming, do you? If you stay in he open you are a fool, because you will get ranged down by anyone, not just snipers. But in some matches you don't have a choice. Like chaosball where you have to kill the ball carrier and there is an enemy sniper on the spawn ledge, or the map called the quarry which is really open.

If there is a sniper on the spawn ledge, use ranged attacks to kill him/make him retreat. Use your own ranged attacks to focus down the ball carrier from beyond the sniper's range.

Bu let me guess. Dual axes/2H/DBOS/spintowin meta. No ranged attacks on your own team worth mentioning. And when you run into a scenario that punishes pure melee team setups, instead of adjusting you come on the forum and demand ranged attacks be nerfed. How typical.

Why do you think ZOS put all those ledges in the battlegrounds?

I have no problems with other ranged attacks or ranged playstyles. Just snipe. And I have explained to you why. But I suppose you think it is fine to have 100% uptime on defile and hit people with 6k+ attacks each second from range. There is no other ability like it. The only thing that comes close is dark flare.

Also, LOL at suggesting to run a snipe spammer yourself. A player with even an ounce of skill can accomplish a lot more with a real build. Snipe spamming just carries the bads and allows them to get kills in xv1. They are always the ones who get the kill on people who are already in trouble, making it impossible for them to recover. Which is way too much influence for this easymode playstyle. In any fair fight or 1v1 they get absolutely destroyed.

I shall tell you a little secret, there are no fair fights in PvP

Sharee wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

I've been thinking about rolling a bow Warden, just as some thing new. I usually play tanky, in-your-face, brawler types, so I thought this could be an interesting break. Here's my question:

Is everyone's problem with Snipe itself, or Snipe with cloak?

I ask because, as a Warden, I was planning on a straight up archer using a burst combo of Snipe, Shalks, and PI. I really want avoid being labeled as "trash." Lol

Players who can't handle something killing them usually try two approachs. One, they try to make the devs nerf whatever is killing them, and two, if it doesnt work they try to guilt the other players into feeling bad for using it.

Don't let them. Bow is a legitimate weapon. Anyone who tries to label you "trash" for using it does so because he is trash himself, unable to handle what is a natural part of PvP.

Well said,

And playing a sniper is more then spamming 1 button, actualy i need both of my skill bars offence and defense, if you have problems with snipers adept or keep crying and begging for nerfs.

Obvi.

And that one button spam accusation is worth a laugh. (Who's crying about blockcaster breath of lifers?) (Still?)

-to get gaudy numbers as a Sniper you sacrifice a lot of defense, at least directly or speaking of ones stats. Against weaker opponents you get thogards video, which is entertaining. He's admittedly no stamblade main and in that video is likely fighting a lower mmr tier of players. Take any good build and half your skill against inexperienced or poor players and this is the result. Consider the source*.

In reality I look forward to encountering enemy snipers because I know once I find em I can land a licking, and win. Against a more balanced build, or against any organized group, snipe sucks because channeled attacks typically suck, doesn't matter if it's melee or ranged, the time to react ought to be there. When it is you have counterplay.


Another point lost:

In an AvAvA game, outside of a duel even if you're ranged you're not always safe. Sorry. I call l2p; good players Dodge a snipe, and speed into the attacker, while elites pop a pot and end the fight. That's just how it is. The poorer players fall.


*For the record I find it amusing when literal buy to win players (players only successful when they have bought the class) somehow find moral ground to make fun of someone else when they're capable of the same damage numbers except AoE and with no limit and tend to play a mode which encourages not sniping but aoe ult dumping.

Lol

“Buy to win players” yea that clearly proves that your arguments are a load of crap because of the stupidest “hurrrr durrr r buy to win” because stamblade isn’t stronger than a Warden. Not worth arguing with such zergling ignorance

I simply said wardens are capable of similar burst as nbs, but the burst is all aoe as a matter of course. And that you have to buy it. Which is also true.

Metemsycosis wrote: »

I still haven't heard much of an argument from you about "snipe" except snipers are bad players.

Let's review the counterplay (that is only possible when the game is functioning properly, mind you).

just Dodge once. Whoa. This should buy the time to know where it's coming from

Sprint like a bee toward the enemy and or gap close and wreck the bad player.

Can't gap close? Find LoS. Wait for them to fire at someone else or if you're alone you'll have to bait them out. Once you have an idea of where they are you can get in with detect pots. Or speed.

Or use your own invisibility pot to end the attack.

Could slot radiant magelight in cyrodiil but it's not worth it just to protect yourself between keeps I guess.

You have any of these skills? Total dark, reflective wings, shimmering, cloak, ball of lightning, purge, block, or mistform? They all counter snipe.

In the bgs sniping is single target but it's usually 4v4v4 which makes all single target less effective unless they're stacking with groupmates.

So get in your group too, enjoy the Templar house and all its hospitality. Get behind a dk flapping wings.

None of these options are viable? You wanna 1vx ? I am so sorry that's no easy task.

Sharee wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

This is to clarify for anyone who uses snipe: you are not, and will not, be viewed as anything more then below average. The ability takes too little skill to use and the gameplay commonly associated with it employs hide and seek tactics which are frowned upon.

Gee. Didn't see that one coming.

...if it doesnt work they try to guilt the other players into feeling bad for using it.

Playing an archer successfully takes as much skill as playing anything else. Arguably even more skill, since the weapon is undoubtedly weaker than competition - no bleeds to carry you, and unless you are firing from a keep wall, range is just an illusion.

When you say archer. What does your rotation consist of? I can understand if you’re using things like acid spray or poison inject/venom Arrow or whatever. But if it just consist of snipe.. that’s not an archer and that takes no skill. No it doesn’t take more skill. Major defile cloak spam from nightblades. Even snipe spamming on a stamDK takes no skill. You’re snipe spamming as the thread says. I said nothing about using other abilities like poison inject acid spray or whatever. Personally have no opinion On scattershot since I haven’t even seen anyone use it. Only archers I’ve ever seen are snipe spammers. Unless you just want to call snipe spammers archers to sound fancy lol.

Of course it does not consist just of snipe. Any target not on the level of a target dummy will roll dodge (or reflect, or otherwise counter) every snipe after the first. Which makes me wonder about the situational awareness of the people complaining about snipe spam...

Metemsycosis wrote: »

pdebie64b16_ESO wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Loaded question. The answer is - because snipe is not broken. Not talking about health desyncs and such of course, that's a server code problem not an ability problem.

My point is you are always overlooking the actual context and look at the ability in a vacuum. Like, snipe is a long range, spammable ability, that does more damage than some ultimates AND applies major defile. Try looking past zerg vs zerg and 1v1 for a second here. Imagine two teams fighting in BG. Team 2 has a sniper that stands on a ledge and spams snipe on one player literally non stop, every second. That player is going to be permanently defiled, and forced to hold block, spam cleanse or spam dodge to be able to survive. If he has any pressure from another enemy and no chance to find cover, he is screwed. Magicka classes that get permasnared and rooted are 100% doomed by a snipe spammer focussing them. I have seen complete groups fail, because there is some braindead sniper spamming snipe on their healer. Meanwhile the snipespammer comfortably sits at safe range and has a MAJOR role in the outcome of the fight, with absolutely zero effort.

How is this in anyway balanced? Like for real man. Spammable defile at range with a ton of damage. This ability is beyond broken outside of a 1v1.

Why is your healer staying in LOS of the sniper? If the sniper is not reachable on a ledge, he is also unable to follow.
Why isn't your own sniper putting pressure on the enemy sniper to push him into defensive? Etc. etc.

"It hurts me at long range" does not equal to broken. Sorry.

Mate, it's not like you always see the sniper coming, do you? If you stay in he open you are a fool, because you will get ranged down by anyone, not just snipers. But in some matches you don't have a choice. Like chaosball where you have to kill the ball carrier and there is an enemy sniper on the spawn ledge, or the map called the quarry which is really open.

If there is a sniper on the spawn ledge, use ranged attacks to kill him/make him retreat. Use your own ranged attacks to focus down the ball carrier from beyond the sniper's range.

Bu let me guess. Dual axes/2H/DBOS/spintowin meta. No ranged attacks on your own team worth mentioning. And when you run into a scenario that punishes pure melee team setups, instead of adjusting you come on the forum and demand ranged attacks be nerfed. How typical.

Why do you think ZOS put all those ledges in the battlegrounds?

I have no problems with other ranged attacks or ranged playstyles. Just snipe. And I have explained to you why. But I suppose you think it is fine to have 100% uptime on defile and hit people with 6k+ attacks each second from range. There is no other ability like it. The only thing that comes close is dark flare.

Also, LOL at suggesting to run a snipe spammer yourself. A player with even an ounce of skill can accomplish a lot more with a real build. Snipe spamming just carries the bads and allows them to get kills in xv1. They are always the ones who get the kill on people who are already in trouble, making it impossible for them to recover. Which is way too much influence for this easymode playstyle. In any fair fight or 1v1 they get absolutely destroyed.

I shall tell you a little secret, there are no fair fights in PvP

Sharee wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

I've been thinking about rolling a bow Warden, just as some thing new. I usually play tanky, in-your-face, brawler types, so I thought this could be an interesting break. Here's my question:

Is everyone's problem with Snipe itself, or Snipe with cloak?

I ask because, as a Warden, I was planning on a straight up archer using a burst combo of Snipe, Shalks, and PI. I really want avoid being labeled as "trash." Lol

Players who can't handle something killing them usually try two approachs. One, they try to make the devs nerf whatever is killing them, and two, if it doesnt work they try to guilt the other players into feeling bad for using it.

Don't let them. Bow is a legitimate weapon. Anyone who tries to label you "trash" for using it does so because he is trash himself, unable to handle what is a natural part of PvP.

Well said,

And playing a sniper is more then spamming 1 button, actualy i need both of my skill bars offence and defense, if you have problems with snipers adept or keep crying and begging for nerfs.

Obvi.

And that one button spam accusation is worth a laugh. (Who's crying about blockcaster breath of lifers?) (Still?)

-to get gaudy numbers as a Sniper you sacrifice a lot of defense, at least directly or speaking of ones stats. Against weaker opponents you get thogards video, which is entertaining. He's admittedly no stamblade main and in that video is likely fighting a lower mmr tier of players. Take any good build and half your skill against inexperienced or poor players and this is the result. Consider the source*.

In reality I look forward to encountering enemy snipers because I know once I find em I can land a licking, and win. Against a more balanced build, or against any organized group, snipe sucks because channeled attacks typically suck, doesn't matter if it's melee or ranged, the time to react ought to be there. When it is you have counterplay.


Another point lost:

In an AvAvA game, outside of a duel even if you're ranged you're not always safe. Sorry. I call l2p; good players Dodge a snipe, and speed into the attacker, while elites pop a pot and end the fight. That's just how it is. The poorer players fall.


*For the record I find it amusing when literal buy to win players (players only successful when they have bought the class) somehow find moral ground to make fun of someone else when they're capable of the same damage numbers except AoE and with no limit and tend to play a mode which encourages not sniping but aoe ult dumping.

Lol