Is Class Rep meeting today?

Beardimus · September 2018

Thank you @Tasear for your active participation in the program and your responses here as a heads up. It is appreciated.

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

Tasear wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

On a side, Class reps have expressed the meeting feels like it went better this time. We talked about why some changes actually occurred. I want to say they do see your outcry but with us I hope they can hear it better

I know to some of you it might seem like we haven't had any impact, but at last we have for the better or worst. We had influences on dark exchange buff, we spoke how you guys didn't find cast time rewarding now that it split up and it felt like a netch knock off. They are considering things for Sorc shields. We are hoping they respect players deep feeling in this matter, but at last won't know how things played out to next week. I am hopeful for the future ( though overload 3 bar ) . Sorry ... should keep focused. We did our best and hope for the best.

Did they tell you whether they had actually tested the shields cast time by completing all of the vet trials on HM with magicka DPS?

The shield change don't quote me " devs told us it was to have proactive and reactive defensive with sheilds but we did express a lot of issues with some of the changes, not just logical one, but feels. I personally think they were seeing and hearing threads about Sorcs and what it means to people. They haven't decided but they are trying to find a good solution. My suggestion is keep talking about it. Make some noises.

The thing that I really hope they get through their heads is that for endgame PVE (less so for PVP), the change to shields is a major problem for all magicka DPS (and healers, for that matter), not just sorcs. It hits sorcs the hardest, but unless they go and change a whole lot of the mechanics in vet trials a 1 second cast time on shields is going to mean a ton of dead magicka DPS and healers of all classes, and it's going to mean a ton of wipes, and it's going to mean that a ton of people who were just getting into doing trials (or just getting into doing vet trials after having only done non-vet, or just getting into doing vet HM after learning vet) are going to decide that they simply can't do that content. And that's bad for everyone.

Edit: worth mentioning that I'm largely not talking about the impact to PVP because I don't do much PVP, so I'm not that qualified to talk about it. Also, in trials I'm almost always on a DK tank, so I'm coming at it from the point of view of what the impact will be to my guild's trials teams, rather than from the point of view of a magsorc or other character who would be directly nerfed by this (even though I've got a number of characters who are directly nerfed by this, I don't typically do endgame content on them).

We spent a very significant portion on on expressing your guys concerns about the issue. I don't think we could of expressed it better. We tried and I hope everyone no matter what happens will be able to enjoy the game still.

I read the notes on the Discord, and wow. It's insane to me how ZOS are so disconnected from the game.

There is only so much you guys can do in the face of so much ineptitude. They literally don't know their own game.

Drdeath20 · September 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

On a side, Class reps have expressed the meeting feels like it went better this time. We talked about why some changes actually occurred. I want to say they do see your outcry but with us I hope they can hear it better

I know to some of you it might seem like we haven't had any impact, but at last we have for the better or worst. We had influences on dark exchange buff, we spoke how you guys didn't find cast time rewarding now that it split up and it felt like a netch knock off. They are considering things for Sorc shields. We are hoping they respect players deep feeling in this matter, but at last won't know how things played out to next week. I am hopeful for the future ( though overload 3 bar ) . Sorry ... should keep focused. We did our best and hope for the best.

Did they tell you whether they had actually tested the shields cast time by completing all of the vet trials on HM with magicka DPS?

The shield change don't quote me " devs told us it was to have proactive and reactive defensive with sheilds but we did express a lot of issues with some of the changes, not just logical one, but feels. I personally think they were seeing and hearing threads about Sorcs and what it means to people. They haven't decided but they are trying to find a good solution. My suggestion is keep talking about it. Make some noises.

The thing that I really hope they get through their heads is that for endgame PVE (less so for PVP), the change to shields is a major problem for all magicka DPS (and healers, for that matter), not just sorcs. It hits sorcs the hardest, but unless they go and change a whole lot of the mechanics in vet trials a 1 second cast time on shields is going to mean a ton of dead magicka DPS and healers of all classes, and it's going to mean a ton of wipes, and it's going to mean that a ton of people who were just getting into doing trials (or just getting into doing vet trials after having only done non-vet, or just getting into doing vet HM after learning vet) are going to decide that they simply can't do that content. And that's bad for everyone.

Edit: worth mentioning that I'm largely not talking about the impact to PVP because I don't do much PVP, so I'm not that qualified to talk about it. Also, in trials I'm almost always on a DK tank, so I'm coming at it from the point of view of what the impact will be to my guild's trials teams, rather than from the point of view of a magsorc or other character who would be directly nerfed by this (even though I've got a number of characters who are directly nerfed by this, I don't typically do endgame content on them).

We spent a very significant portion on on expressing your guys concerns about the issue. I don't think we could of expressed it better. We tried and I hope everyone no matter what happens will be able to enjoy the game still.

I read the notes on the Discord, and wow. It's insane to me how ZOS are so disconnected from the game.

There is only so much you guys can do in the face of so much ineptitude. They literally don't know their own game.

On which discord?

shaielzafine · September 2018

@MLGProPlayer do you know which discord it's in? I'm curious to see the notes

thanks!

Onefrkncrzypope · September 2018

There some screenshots floating that's all.

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2018

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

There some screenshots floating that's all.

Well, I'd like to see them.

Thraben · September 2018

Tasear wrote: »

On a side, Class reps have expressed the meeting feels like it went better this time. We talked about why some changes actually occurred. I want to say they do see your outcry but with us I hope they can hear it better

I know to some of you it might seem like we haven't had any impact, but at last we have for the better or worst. We had influences on dark exchange buff, we spoke how you guys didn't find cast time rewarding now that it split up and it felt like a netch knock off. They are considering things for Sorc shields. We are hoping they respect players deep feeling in this matter, but at last won't know how things played out to next week. I am hopeful for the future ( though overload 3 bar ) . Sorry ... should keep focused. We did our best and hope for the best.

So did you mention the need of the third bar for tanks and healers? What did they say?

Onefrkncrzypope · September 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

There some screenshots floating that's all.

Well, I'd like to see them.

Do you? The ones I saw are not very hopeful. Just wait for the notes and at least it will be gussied up with a bow.

summary of what I've seen:
evasion to AOE damage reduction change was for NB Tanks because they can not have to block when there is a lot of enemies....... quoted from Worbel

Either huge tooltip on shields with cast time or sorc can have a tiny tooltip with no cast time. Only sorc shield might not have a cast time.

if they want a light attack rotation then have them spec sustain. Even if other classes can do both without sacrifice.

Sustain has been fixed this patch.

that's is the short versions of what I saw.....

Chilly-McFreeze · September 2018

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

There some screenshots floating that's all.

Well, I'd like to see them.

Do you? The ones I saw are not very hopeful. Just wait for the notes and at least it will be gussied up with a bow.

summary of what I've seen:
evasion to AOE damage reduction change was for NB Tanks because they can not have to block when there is a lot of enemies....... quoted from Worbel

Either huge tooltip on shields with cast time or sorc can have a tiny tooltip with no cast time. Only sorc shield might not have a cast time.

if they want a light attack rotation then have them spec sustain. Even if other classes can do both without sacrifice.

Sustain has been fixed this patch.

that's is the short versions of what I saw.....

I'll take a pass then. Thanks.

Onefrkncrzypope · September 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

There some screenshots floating that's all.

Well, I'd like to see them.

Do you? The ones I saw are not very hopeful. Just wait for the notes and at least it will be gussied up with a bow.

summary of what I've seen:
evasion to AOE damage reduction change was for NB Tanks because they can not have to block when there is a lot of enemies....... quoted from Worbel

Either huge tooltip on shields with cast time or sorc can have a tiny tooltip with no cast time. Only sorc shield might not have a cast time.

if they want a light attack rotation then have them spec sustain. Even if other classes can do both without sacrifice.

Sustain has been fixed this patch.

that's is the short versions of what I saw.....

I'll take a pass then. Thanks.

Remember though what I said is a summary of what some dude said while summarizing his frustrations

aeowulf · September 2018

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

summary of what I've seen:
evasion to AOE damage reduction change was for NB Tanks because they can not have to block when there is a lot of enemies....... quoted from Worbel

o... m... g... I really don't think either of the remaining NB tanks wanted their only last unique play style removed.

That guy REALLY needs to take an NB tank into vTrial or vDLC content.

Sparr0w · September 2018

aeowulf wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

summary of what I've seen:
evasion to AOE damage reduction change was for NB Tanks because they can not have to block when there is a lot of enemies....... quoted from Worbel

o... m... g... I really don't think either of the remaining NB tanks wanted their only last unique play style removed.

That guy REALLY needs to take an NB tank into vTrial or vDLC content.

Rip Sappy, forever in our hearts

ZOS_GinaBruno · September 2018

We did have a meeting with the Class Reps yesterday afternoon, and we'll be posting the notes on the forums a little later today.

Haashhtaag · September 2018

Tasear wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

On a side, Class reps have expressed the meeting feels like it went better this time. We talked about why some changes actually occurred. I want to say they do see your outcry but with us I hope they can hear it better

I know to some of you it might seem like we haven't had any impact, but at last we have for the better or worst. We had influences on dark exchange buff, we spoke how you guys didn't find cast time rewarding now that it split up and it felt like a netch knock off. They are considering things for Sorc shields. We are hoping they respect players deep feeling in this matter, but at last won't know how things played out to next week. I am hopeful for the future ( though overload 3 bar ) . Sorry ... should keep focused. We did our best and hope for the best.

Did they tell you whether they had actually tested the shields cast time by completing all of the vet trials on HM with magicka DPS?

The shield change don't quote me " devs told us it was to have proactive and reactive defensive with sheilds but we did express a lot of issues with some of the changes, not just logical one, but feels. I personally think they were seeing and hearing threads about Sorcs and what it means to people. They haven't decided but they are trying to find a good solution. My suggestion is keep talking about it. Make some noises.

Nothing will influence them. It’s their way or the highway. You’re just a meat shield between them and the players.

Turelus · September 2018

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We did have a meeting with the Class Reps yesterday afternoon, and we'll be posting the notes on the forums a little later today.

DeathStalker · September 2018

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We did have a meeting with the Class Reps yesterday afternoon, and we'll be posting the notes on the forums a little later today.

Thank you for the response

BigBadVolk · September 2018

ArrowPoint wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I heard a lot of time was spent debating over which toppings to put on the pizza.

There is only one pizza topping that comes to my mind about the PTS - and the upcoming live patch: RIPperoni pepperoni!

No its Pineapple

Strider__Roshin · September 2018

BigBadVolk wrote: »

ArrowPoint wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I heard a lot of time was spent debating over which toppings to put on the pizza.

There is only one pizza topping that comes to my mind about the PTS - and the upcoming live patch: RIPperoni pepperoni!

No its Pineapple

Can confirm. It's definitely pineapple.

Joy_Division · September 2018

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I heard a lot of time was spent debating over which toppings to put on the pizza.

Few people appreciate the awesomeness that is a plain pie.

Minno · September 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I heard a lot of time was spent debating over which toppings to put on the pizza.

Few people appreciate the awesomeness that is a plain pie.

In NYC we call this a "regular".
We also believe that if you have to dress up a pizza, it's because the pizza is terrible. Same goes for steaks and booze.

ruikkarikun · September 2018

@Tasear thank for your help and attention! Hope they will manage how to implement shield changes without cast time.

jerrodbuffington · September 2018

Where will their notes be posted?

Sparr0w · September 2018

jerrodbuffington wrote: »

Where will their notes be posted?

@jerrodbuffington Usually in the 'Combat & Character mechanics' section, tho they're not up yet.

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@Tasear thank for your help and attention! Hope they will manage how to implement shield changes without cast time.

They discussed getting rid of the cast time for sorcs only, which tells me they have absolutely no idea what they're doing (thinking that sorc is the only class that uses shields...).

Tasear · September 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@Tasear thank for your help and attention! Hope they will manage how to implement shield changes without cast time.

They discussed getting rid of the cast time for sorcs only, which tells me they have absolutely no idea what they're doing (thinking rhat sorc is the only class that uses shields...).

Wait for offical meeting notes

LadyNalcarya · September 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@Tasear thank for your help and attention! Hope they will manage how to implement shield changes without cast time.

They discussed getting rid of the cast time for sorcs only, which tells me they have absolutely no idea what they're doing (thinking rhat sorc is the only class that uses shields...).

It was already kinda obvious when Wrobel decided that shields are the reason why healers arent welcome in some dungeon groups.

idk · September 2018

UrQuan wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

On a side, Class reps have expressed the meeting feels like it went better this time. We talked about why some changes actually occurred. I want to say they do see your outcry but with us I hope they can hear it better

I know to some of you it might seem like we haven't had any impact, but at last we have for the better or worst. We had influences on dark exchange buff, we spoke how you guys didn't find cast time rewarding now that it split up and it felt like a netch knock off. They are considering things for Sorc shields. We are hoping they respect players deep feeling in this matter, but at last won't know how things played out to next week. I am hopeful for the future ( though overload 3 bar ) . Sorry ... should keep focused. We did our best and hope for the best.

Did they tell you whether they had actually tested the shields cast time by completing all of the vet trials on HM with magicka DPS?

Pretty sure there has never been a dev only clear of any vet trial since and including vMoL, let alone on HM. My guess is they might have cleared at least one of the craglorn trials in vet, but not HM, as those were pretty easy to clear by even casual players for a long time.

They really do not play their game beyond a casual manner with the exception of Gilliam but I heard via the forums this week he is no longer raiding on the NA server since he was hired.

Good to hear there was positive conversation in the class rep meeting.

LiquidPony · September 2018

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@Tasear thank for your help and attention! Hope they will manage how to implement shield changes without cast time.

They discussed getting rid of the cast time for sorcs only, which tells me they have absolutely no idea what they're doing (thinking rhat sorc is the only class that uses shields...).

It was already kinda obvious when Wrobel decided that shields are the reason why healers arent welcome in some dungeon groups.

I revisited that 8/16 Class Reps meeting notes thread recently. Oy vey.

ZOS’s high-level goals and things actively being worked on for update 20

Harness Magicka and Conjured Ward skills are overshadowing and diminishing the role of healers

Duel Wield is an end-game PvE requirement because of the Blade Cloak skill

I try to be optimistic and give people the benefit of the doubt, but man, it's hard to do that reading those two quotes. The shield point at least is arguable (although personally I think they're way off base), the Blade Cloak point is so hopelessly misguided that it makes my head hurt. What game are they even playing?

MLGProPlayer · September 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

What game are they even playing?

That's the problem. They aren't play testing these changes

Sparr0w · September 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@Tasear thank for your help and attention! Hope they will manage how to implement shield changes without cast time.

They discussed getting rid of the cast time for sorcs only, which tells me they have absolutely no idea what they're doing (thinking rhat sorc is the only class that uses shields...).

It was already kinda obvious when Wrobel decided that shields are the reason why healers arent welcome in some dungeon groups.

I revisited that 8/16 Class Reps meeting notes thread recently. Oy vey.

ZOS’s high-level goals and things actively being worked on for update 20

Harness Magicka and Conjured Ward skills are overshadowing and diminishing the role of healers

Duel Wield is an end-game PvE requirement because of the Blade Cloak skill

I try to be optimistic and give people the benefit of the doubt, but man, it's hard to do that reading those two quotes. The shield point at least is arguable (although personally I think they're way off base), the Blade Cloak point is so hopelessly misguided that it makes my head hurt. What game are they even playing?

Explains shield nerfs and evasion changes tbh