templesus wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

For 1vX PvP:
S Rank: Stamblade
A Rank: Stamden
B Rank: MagBlade StamSorc
C Rank: Stamplar MagSorc StamDK
D Rank: Magden MagDK Magplar

Stamblade having class access to 25% AoE reduction will be broken, making it completely dominant. Stamden is only getting buffed as well although it's already known to be one of the top PvP classes in the game. Magblade and StamSorc will both have amazing mobility next patch amidst all the mobility nerfs which puts them a cut and above the other tiered classes. Stamplar and Magplar will have virtually no chance at killing heavy armor stamblades and difficulty killing majority of Cyrodiil next patch because their spammable and ultimate are both gonna be mitigated by evasion. On top of that, Stamplar is taking major defensive nerfs with changes to rune. StamDK is still suffering from having to use dizzying with no real supporting damage, the only thing they have going for them is their good survivability and the 8% weapon damage buff they are getting if in med armor next patch. MagSorc will have far better mobility then the bottom tier classes which is my only reasoning for putting them above, and I personally believe resistances effecting shields will allow for some solid builds to be theorycrafted. Anybody who has 1vXed on Magplar or Magden or MagDK know just how garbage tier those classes are open world 1vXing and knows it doesn't really need an explanation. They really didn't receive any meaningful buffs and Magplar got significantly nerfed with the aforementioned evasion change.

PvE:
I refer you to Liko.

This is embarrassingly wrong on so many levels. Stamblades already have access to 25% AoE reduction through blade cloak.

Magblades got nerfed harder than magsorcs who were already a higher tier than them.

MDKs are very strong this patch and you have them at the bottom.

I’m gonna go ahead and say you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about tbh.

Perhaps your mistake is to think 1vX = PvP balance. It doesn’t, by the way and based on how horrible your opinions are, I doubt you’re any good at it unless you’re being carried by a crutch build anyway.

Do you even 1vX? I literally said that list is for 1vXing only. If you claim to 1vX then on the same not claim MagDK is strong st 1vXing then my guess is your version of 1vXing is called “Zerg surfing”. This is where someone plays solo, but actually runs around with Zergs and outnumbers people. Usually these are garbage tier players. Does this sound familiar to you?

likecats wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Stamblade
Stamden - MagDK
Magblade
(insert gap here)
Magplar
Stam DK
Stamsorc
Stamplar
(insert YUUUUUUUUGE gap here)
Magden
Magcrafter

magblade 3rd with no healing ward and nerf to harness magicka? LOL
Yeh good luck surviving

It literally has the best survival toolkit available to it paired with the highest damage skill in the game.

In PVP? What on earth are you talking about?

No burst heal, no class shields and literally every single heal is a HoT and youre out here saying it has the "best survival kit"

lmfao I wondow why theyre pretty much extinct in Cyrodiil

Multiple HoTs+Best Mobility of all mag classes+Major Evasion+Good sustained damage and burst = Good class

Except realistically (using a standard ranged magblade build),
2/10 classes can reflect all your abilities dragging the fight indefinitely regardless of their personal skill.
Another 2/10 classes can use shimmering to drag on the fight indefinitely regardless of their personal skill.
5/10 classes can dodge ALL your abilities, dragging on the fight for a decent while.
5/10 classes can't be kited reliably even though your gameplay depends on it. (although this is getting buffed next patch !yay?).

With a standard magblade, aside from Magplar, Magsorc, other Magblades you can't reliably kill anyone in a 1vX situation, even if they are absolute noobs thanks to wings and shimmering shields, and ALL your abilities being dodgeable.
I feel a huge difference in the number of people I can reliably kill on my stamplar vs my magblade, since I don't have to worry about wings, shimmering shields, or dodge rollers (especially with spin2win) on my stamplar.
So many people are angry about major evasion reducing templar damage for 25% on classes with major evasion, well hello, magblade has to deal with wings and shimmering, both of which are FAAAR more stronger (vs magblade) than 25% reduction on some abilities.

Before you say "You can use concealed weapon", I'll just say that melee magblade has been nerfed consistently for the past 2 years without any buffs. This patch with nerf to healing ward and forward momentum and merciless, the playstyle is officially dead. May as well play a stamblade if you're into playing melee magblade. If you made a list with melee magblade as a separate class, it will easily be at the bottom of the list for next patch in pvp.

Magblade is a great class for duels, because you can switch out skills for your specific opponent and control the fight more. But outside of dueling, it's melee build sucks in pvp, and it's ranged build can't reliably kill like half the classes in decent time.

Ive never had any problem killing a DK with wings in Cyrodiil on my magblade. Granted, Wardens are tanky and hard af to kill, but then again no class excels vs every class. Certain classes counter others. Magblade is going to shine because their mobility’s is going to be the undisputed best of all Magicka classes next patch, which is going to make a massive difference. And I don’t want to hear the same excuse “no snare removal” just slot must form like Magplars and MagDKs have been doing since launch.

I’m saying that your assertion that 1vX is the be all and end all of PvP is wrong.

It wouldn’t surprise me to hear that 1vX players represent less than 5% of ESO’s PvP population.

BGs and group Cyro probably make up at least 80%.

MagDK isn’t good in 1vX but it’s top-tier for BGs and small group PvP.

As for Magblade vs DK. Unless you’re running a 2h melee build, you don’t really have any options vs a wing spammer since (for reasons known only to ZOS) attacks like swallow soul & crippling grasp are “projectiles”.

I understand that, and I would argue it’s roughly around 1% of the population is 1vXers. However if you took the time to read the very first sentence of my post, I LITERALLY stated my list was for 1vXing. So I’m not sure where your gripe is. I would have to make a separate list for BGs and small group.

TheRealSniker wrote: »

For Solo PvP: Stamblade is gonna be top 1, Magsorcs and (I dare to say) Magplars are gonna be both very strong aswell

Group PvP: Stamdens, Stamsorcs, HoT Magblades and Magplars are gonna have the most impact

Dueling PvP: Petsorcs, Magblades, MagDKs, Templars and Heavyblades will be all very strong


Trials PvE: Magblades and Magplars will reign, Stamblades will be picked for old content
Some builds are gonna be purely used for buffs/debuffs or alkosh uptime like StamDKs, Stamplars or Magsorcs
I dare to call anything else irrelevant

Dungeon PvE: lol who cares about that

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Total dark. One of the reasons templars are op

Is Total Dark limited to one enemy at a time?
No, you can cast on multiple targets simultaneously
Does Total Dark work on bosses?
No, but there are no bosses in cyrodiil

mojomood wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

For Solo PvP: Stamblade is gonna be top 1, Magsorcs and (I dare to say) Magplars are gonna be both very strong aswell

Group PvP: Stamdens, Stamsorcs, HoT Magblades and Magplars are gonna have the most impact

Dueling PvP: Petsorcs, Magblades, MagDKs, Templars and Heavyblades will be all very strong


Trials PvE: Magblades and Magplars will reign, Stamblades will be picked for old content
Some builds are gonna be purely used for buffs/debuffs or alkosh uptime like StamDKs, Stamplars or Magsorcs
I dare to call anything else irrelevant

Dungeon PvE: lol who cares about that

I’d contend with you putting magblades in top 3 for group PvP unless you’re talking about healing when you say HoT?

In large-group they’re actually really poor because they’re simply not a “brawler” even if built in heavy-armor. They don’t have a spammable AoE, for one thing.

In small-group/BGs, they were quite strong but on PTS it’s proving really quite hard to get them working. The shield nerf hits them just as hard as magsorcs but they also took nerfs to self-heals, their main burst weapon (this was a huuuuge nerf - try it out) and their execute.

I’m sure I’ll find a way to make it work and get a build that’s viable but they’re looking very mid-pack for small-scale. Definitely not top-3.

The rest of your guesses look reasonable though. On overal usefulness/fun-value I think Magplar are going to come out well this patch.

Yeah I meant healing over time stacking Magblades, they get quite some changes in their favor next patch
And imo these "shield nerfs" are soon gonna turn out to be buffs when people learn how to build magsorcs

Magsorcs are gonna be OK. Magblades have been hit too hard. It’s the nerf to the bow proc and the healing nerfs that hurt them most of all.

That bow is now SO slow that even if you stun an opponent first, they have time to break free and then block or roll before it lands.

Trust me, magblades for ganking noobs in Cyro only now.

It does feel bad. However, some of the most talented players I've seen can play magblade and make it look easy. Tge problem is that there is no middle ground for the class in PvP. Gank, bomb, destro ulti ball group or be really freaking good. Very hard to play the class outside of those groups.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Total dark. One of the reasons templars are op

Is Total Dark limited to one enemy at a time?
Does Total Dark work on bosses?

lucky_dutch wrote: »

mojomood wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

For Solo PvP: Stamblade is gonna be top 1, Magsorcs and (I dare to say) Magplars are gonna be both very strong aswell

Group PvP: Stamdens, Stamsorcs, HoT Magblades and Magplars are gonna have the most impact

Dueling PvP: Petsorcs, Magblades, MagDKs, Templars and Heavyblades will be all very strong


Trials PvE: Magblades and Magplars will reign, Stamblades will be picked for old content
Some builds are gonna be purely used for buffs/debuffs or alkosh uptime like StamDKs, Stamplars or Magsorcs
I dare to call anything else irrelevant

Dungeon PvE: lol who cares about that

I’d contend with you putting magblades in top 3 for group PvP unless you’re talking about healing when you say HoT?

In large-group they’re actually really poor because they’re simply not a “brawler” even if built in heavy-armor. They don’t have a spammable AoE, for one thing.

In small-group/BGs, they were quite strong but on PTS it’s proving really quite hard to get them working. The shield nerf hits them just as hard as magsorcs but they also took nerfs to self-heals, their main burst weapon (this was a huuuuge nerf - try it out) and their execute.

I’m sure I’ll find a way to make it work and get a build that’s viable but they’re looking very mid-pack for small-scale. Definitely not top-3.

The rest of your guesses look reasonable though. On overal usefulness/fun-value I think Magplar are going to come out well this patch.

Yeah I meant healing over time stacking Magblades, they get quite some changes in their favor next patch
And imo these "shield nerfs" are soon gonna turn out to be buffs when people learn how to build magsorcs

Magsorcs are gonna be OK. Magblades have been hit too hard. It’s the nerf to the bow proc and the healing nerfs that hurt them most of all.

That bow is now SO slow that even if you stun an opponent first, they have time to break free and then block or roll before it lands.

Trust me, magblades for ganking noobs in Cyro only now.

It does feel bad. However, some of the most talented players I've seen can play magblade and make it look easy. Tge problem is that there is no middle ground for the class in PvP. Gank, bomb, destro ulti ball group or be really freaking good. Very hard to play the class outside of those groups.

I don’t think the fact that they can bomb in Cyro (which is extremely niche gameplay and gets boring really fast) is sufficient reason to have the class in such a weak state for the much more popular forms of PvP like BGs and group Cyro.

They over-did it with the nerfs. The merciless change was a bad one and the class now also severely lacks self-heal options (which is insane for a class that’s commonly used as a healer in PvE).

I’ve suggested this on another thread but I’d like to see them change Shrewd Offering (which is morph that nobody uses) into a self-heal. An instant heal in return for placing a dot against yourself? That’s an interesting mechanic!

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

PVP


Magblade
MagSorc
Stamina NB
Magplar
MagDK
Stamplar
StamSorc
Stamden
Magden
StamDK











This patch is nothing but buffs for magicka in PVP, and nothing but nerfs for stamina. Stamblades and STamplars will be the only viable stam classes.

lucky_dutch wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

For 1vX PvP:
S Rank: Stamblade
A Rank: Stamden
B Rank: MagBlade StamSorc
C Rank: Stamplar MagSorc StamDK
D Rank: Magden MagDK Magplar

Stamblade having class access to 25% AoE reduction will be broken, making it completely dominant. Stamden is only getting buffed as well although it's already known to be one of the top PvP classes in the game. Magblade and StamSorc will both have amazing mobility next patch amidst all the mobility nerfs which puts them a cut and above the other tiered classes. Stamplar and Magplar will have virtually no chance at killing heavy armor stamblades and difficulty killing majority of Cyrodiil next patch because their spammable and ultimate are both gonna be mitigated by evasion. On top of that, Stamplar is taking major defensive nerfs with changes to rune. StamDK is still suffering from having to use dizzying with no real supporting damage, the only thing they have going for them is their good survivability and the 8% weapon damage buff they are getting if in med armor next patch. MagSorc will have far better mobility then the bottom tier classes which is my only reasoning for putting them above, and I personally believe resistances effecting shields will allow for some solid builds to be theorycrafted. Anybody who has 1vXed on Magplar or Magden or MagDK know just how garbage tier those classes are open world 1vXing and knows it doesn't really need an explanation. They really didn't receive any meaningful buffs and Magplar got significantly nerfed with the aforementioned evasion change.

PvE:
I refer you to Liko.

This is embarrassingly wrong on so many levels. Stamblades already have access to 25% AoE reduction through blade cloak.

Magblades got nerfed harder than magsorcs who were already a higher tier than them.

MDKs are very strong this patch and you have them at the bottom.

I’m gonna go ahead and say you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about tbh.

Perhaps your mistake is to think 1vX = PvP balance. It doesn’t, by the way and based on how horrible your opinions are, I doubt you’re any good at it unless you’re being carried by a crutch build anyway.

Do you even 1vX? I literally said that list is for 1vXing only. If you claim to 1vX then on the same not claim MagDK is strong st 1vXing then my guess is your version of 1vXing is called “Zerg surfing”. This is where someone plays solo, but actually runs around with Zergs and outnumbers people. Usually these are garbage tier players. Does this sound familiar to you?

likecats wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Stamblade
Stamden - MagDK
Magblade
(insert gap here)
Magplar
Stam DK
Stamsorc
Stamplar
(insert YUUUUUUUUGE gap here)
Magden
Magcrafter

magblade 3rd with no healing ward and nerf to harness magicka? LOL
Yeh good luck surviving

It literally has the best survival toolkit available to it paired with the highest damage skill in the game.

In PVP? What on earth are you talking about?

No burst heal, no class shields and literally every single heal is a HoT and youre out here saying it has the "best survival kit"

lmfao I wondow why theyre pretty much extinct in Cyrodiil

Multiple HoTs+Best Mobility of all mag classes+Major Evasion+Good sustained damage and burst = Good class

Except realistically (using a standard ranged magblade build),
2/10 classes can reflect all your abilities dragging the fight indefinitely regardless of their personal skill.
Another 2/10 classes can use shimmering to drag on the fight indefinitely regardless of their personal skill.
5/10 classes can dodge ALL your abilities, dragging on the fight for a decent while.
5/10 classes can't be kited reliably even though your gameplay depends on it. (although this is getting buffed next patch !yay?).

With a standard magblade, aside from Magplar, Magsorc, other Magblades you can't reliably kill anyone in a 1vX situation, even if they are absolute noobs thanks to wings and shimmering shields, and ALL your abilities being dodgeable.
I feel a huge difference in the number of people I can reliably kill on my stamplar vs my magblade, since I don't have to worry about wings, shimmering shields, or dodge rollers (especially with spin2win) on my stamplar.
So many people are angry about major evasion reducing templar damage for 25% on classes with major evasion, well hello, magblade has to deal with wings and shimmering, both of which are FAAAR more stronger (vs magblade) than 25% reduction on some abilities.

Before you say "You can use concealed weapon", I'll just say that melee magblade has been nerfed consistently for the past 2 years without any buffs. This patch with nerf to healing ward and forward momentum and merciless, the playstyle is officially dead. May as well play a stamblade if you're into playing melee magblade. If you made a list with melee magblade as a separate class, it will easily be at the bottom of the list for next patch in pvp.

Magblade is a great class for duels, because you can switch out skills for your specific opponent and control the fight more. But outside of dueling, it's melee build sucks in pvp, and it's ranged build can't reliably kill like half the classes in decent time.

Ive never had any problem killing a DK with wings in Cyrodiil on my magblade. Granted, Wardens are tanky and hard af to kill, but then again no class excels vs every class. Certain classes counter others. Magblade is going to shine because their mobility’s is going to be the undisputed best of all Magicka classes next patch, which is going to make a massive difference. And I don’t want to hear the same excuse “no snare removal” just slot must form like Magplars and MagDKs have been doing since launch.

I’m saying that your assertion that 1vX is the be all and end all of PvP is wrong.

It wouldn’t surprise me to hear that 1vX players represent less than 5% of ESO’s PvP population.

BGs and group Cyro probably make up at least 80%.

MagDK isn’t good in 1vX but it’s top-tier for BGs and small group PvP.

As for Magblade vs DK. Unless you’re running a 2h melee build, you don’t really have any options vs a wing spammer since (for reasons known only to ZOS) attacks like swallow soul & crippling grasp are “projectiles”.