alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

adeptusminor wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

So it's the low CPs fault they get kicked?

That's pure BS.

If you can't carry one wee CP through any non-HM dungeon, you're not as good a player as you think you are.

Why should people be expected to expend more resources and time to carry someone not willing to fulfill their roles as a dps? Let's flip this around to other classes:
"If you can't heal yourself through any non-HM dungeon, you're not as good a player as you think you are"
"If you can't tank a boss through any non-HM dungeon, you're not as good a player as you think you are"

Fake healers and fake tanks seldom get a pass, why is it so many people give bad or fake DPS a pass? What if it's two new dps players, one a new player to vet dungeons and willing and wanting to improve, the other playing "their way" putting out 10k dps with both doing not enough damage for a vet dungeon. Do you think either is going to have a good experience if they have to spend 20 minutes to kill a boss? To me it's extremely toxic and selfish for a person to not care about their damage and role and expect to be carried because they can't be bothered to improve. The only ones those kind of people hurt are the new players, not the experienced DPS that is min-maxed and can blast through the vet dungeons in 15 minutes.

You go on about experienced DPS that is min-maxed and can blast through a vet dungeon in 15 minutes but also go on about all dps have to do their part...which is it? if one min-maxed dps can clear the dungeon do the others need to be min-maxed then.

Again, if you want to cherry-pick your dungeon companions then go with guildies / friends and NOT pugs.

Players banging on about scrubs not doing dps and not wanting to carry forget that todays scrub is tomorrows hardcore raider. If players put newbies off with their elitist attitude then they will eventually run of out of experienced players to run instances with. Natural attrition means experienced players slowly leave games. If you put off the next "generation" with your attitude what do you think is going to happen eventually? The elitist will be on the forums complaining that no one is running instances.

It may be a cliche but if you are one of those players that thinks that anyone who isn't equipped with "BiS" in every slot with the optimum rotation from some theory crafting website, the optimum build etc is trash then please do ESO a favour and duck off back to WoW. You will be welcome there for sure.

Those ones that can blast through vet dungeons in 15 minutes are seldom if ever kicked. The ones that expect to be carried (and lets be honest, if that's their expectation they probably are often carried) are the ones that are getting kicked and wondering why. Just because people can and often do carry a bad dps doesn't mean they should be expected to.

idk wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I just read the first few sentences of OP long statement since is was rather long.

I can state his title is pretty wrong since I have seen low CP players out dps most CP capped players I have found in random GF groups.

OP is correct we find low DPS players in random groups and it was that way before CP was introduced. However he is incorrect that it is because of CP since it is mostly due to skill level.

I like to do random dungeons on a healer because I can out dps most groups I find in random groups and still keep hots and such rolling. It goes a long way to the group being successful.

Maybe read the whole thread instead of saying "I read a few sentences, OP is wrong"

to long. Maybe get to the point as it is not that complicated of a subject.

But again, the title is wrong. People do not kick others because they have low CP. They kick low CP because the person doing the kicking lacks a basic understanding of the game.

Go read more than 2 sentences on another thread. There are hundreds of threads dedicated to venting out frustrations about people being kicked because they were low CP.

Soella wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Soella wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

For the third day in a row on my healer, I get put into a veteran group with terrible DPS. One day despite maintaining minor berserk, minor and major resolve/ward, and keeping major breach applied all damn near 24/7, I was told I'm useless.

Actually, with all due respect, all you efforts was useless. It make sense to buff group DPS if it is already high. If it is low much more effective to DPS.

Guess you missed the part where I mentioned I was on a magden.

So what? Let do some math. All your attempts to buff your group DPS improve it let say 20% ( actually, less for pugs, but I am not greedy). When I tried to heal pugs, their typical total DPS is less then 10 K. So your buffing adds about 2 K DPS to the group. If you light attack instead, you will do more. Don't mix up trial and 4 man - you need to DPS in 4 man, not buff, at least if it is not HM.

BTW, I only recently hit 50 on my magden and decided to level undaunted through pugs as healer for fast queues. Couple hots on group, lotus up and lightweaving with force pulse keeps group up and give you close to 10K DPS if you keep blockade on the ground. Yes, it doubles DPS for most pugs, but as result you can clear fast and no drama. No fancy gear, btw, just 2 craft sets with willpower.

L2P before blame others, please.

Not L2P issue here buddy, I was pulling around 40-50% of the total DPS as a warden healer.

Nice bait though.

I've never played an MMO where so many people have absolutely no idea what there doing or what to do I feel you OP in most other MMOs ive played not everyone is a 1% MLG top player but everyone at or near max level at least knew how to play there role granted there still bad players but with the right gear and more time to learn theres a hope.
Ive met 40 players in the last 6 months on Xbox one that are at or near CP cap and didn't even know they have a back bar a whole other bar to swap to so they could put more abilities on one guy thought I was lying he was a CP 320 and he told me there was no other bar and then he told me I was bad and had no idea how to play I can't even make this up I can't tell if he was trolling me or not he seemed serious so eh

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

I've never played an MMO where so many people have absolutely no idea what there doing or what to do I feel you OP in most other MMOs ive played not everyone is a 1% MLG top player but everyone at or near max level at least knew how to play there role granted there still bad players but with the right gear and more time to learn theres a hope.
Ive met 40 players in the last 6 months on Xbox one that are at or near CP cap and didn't even know they have a back bar a whole other bar to swap to so they could put more abilities on one guy thought I was lying he was a CP 320 and he told me there was no other bar and then he told me I was bad and had no idea how to play I can't even make this up I can't tell if he was trolling me or not he seemed serious so eh

The game does a terrible job of teaching you bow to play.

1. Overland content is mind-numbingly easy, which gives players a false sense of their abilities. After killing Molag Bal with 3 light attacks, a new player will feel like they can take on anything.
2. The game doesn't clearly explain that damage scales with your resource pool, resulting in people putting attribute points into "balanced" builds.
3. The game doesn't explain the importance of food and potions.

#3 happens largely as a function of #1 though. With overland content being so easy, players don't even think about eating food or drinking potions because they never run into a situation where they need more health or magicka/stamina.

Mind numbingly easy to you NOW, but to most of us, it certainly wasn't (and isn't) with a new character.

Must be nice to be so sanctimonious. Maybe you should give lessons.

By the time you get to Coldharbour, the game is VERY easy. It's only the early and middle levels that are a little challenging, but never to the point where you're forced to use food/potions or learn any kind of advanced mechanics.

What are you considering advanced mechanics?

I’ve been playing strictly DPS for 3 years, and while I’m not the absolute best ever, I can pull 35-40k on my geared up toons and can usually carry the group of the other dps is bad.

I decided to try my hand at tanking lately (and loving it I might add), but holy hell do I run into A LOT of groups with garbage DPS. It really makes me want to stow my tank away and just play DPS unless I’m running with people I know. Took the group I had about an hour to run Vet Banished Cells II, and that’s with both DPS being cp500+. I was holding 5 daedroth at one point.

Ghanima_Atreides wrote: »

Seri wrote: »

No Major Intellect, so not sure there was any pots used? I'd be genuinely interested to see the difference using pots (essence of spellpower or even the trash magicka ones to help with sustain), ensuring major sorcery is up all the time, and slotting elemental drain (either self or having someone apply it). Then after that, we could talk about _which_ sets are being used, and if the front-bar weapon is gold-tier (weapons are noticable, armor doesn't matter if it's purple except for maybe trial score-pushing).

I didn't use pots, because I find that I forget about them in the thick of a fight. But that's something I could experiment with more.

As for the sets...I'm probably going to catch some flak for this, because they' are a little...unconventional I suppose?

x5 Destruction Mastery
x3 Willpower
x3 Shadow Dancer

The idea behind this was to stack as much magicka as possible because I always have such sustain issues. I have multiple characters you see, and I've tried different approaches: max-damage, max-magicka, a combination...with what I had available, of course (that is: no monster sets etc.) This one however I find easiest to play, although I realise it's not exactly meta.

I could borrow another character's set (which is all gold) and try with that.


EDIT

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by hate in this sentence, could you clarify what you mean? And what sets are you wearing and what enchantments do you have on your jewelry? I mean you say you have soloed some norm dungeons and that is neat. You have fun playing? That is what is important.

I meant that I found pet builds extremely dull to play and I do want to enjoy it a little too. I do have fun playing, of course, but I also feel I am somehow missing out on a part of the game by not being able to participate in tougher content together with an actual group, see the newest dungeons and maybe a trial some day.

The enchantments on the jewellery are magicka recovery, because, again, sustain. I could squeeze more damage by optimising my gear for it but what happens when I run out after a couple of rotations? I was trying to strike some sort of balance.

There's definitely nothing wrong with playing the way you are, and i dont think the op was directing his post at people who play the way you do. It seems to me that your respectful and know your current limits. That being said, most of the vet #1 dungeons should be perfectly fine for you to do. Likewise, as others have said, it looks like gear, possibly cp, and keeping dots up is a main issue.
If you do need some help with a rotation on magsorc, a pretty common one is liquid lightning, wall of elements, curse, then 5 force pulses, and repeat. Recast curse every other rotation. When solo and using spell power pots i toss elemental drain in the rotation. Doesnt matter to take out a force pulse or anything.

I generally will note vote to kick unless its a vet dlc dungeon. Its pretty hard to carry through those, but in vanilla ones its a good learning experience for newer players and not to bad to make up the difference.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

RebornV3x wrote: »

I've never played an MMO where so many people have absolutely no idea what there doing or what to do I feel you OP in most other MMOs ive played not everyone is a 1% MLG top player but everyone at or near max level at least knew how to play there role granted there still bad players but with the right gear and more time to learn theres a hope.
Ive met 40 players in the last 6 months on Xbox one that are at or near CP cap and didn't even know they have a back bar a whole other bar to swap to so they could put more abilities on one guy thought I was lying he was a CP 320 and he told me there was no other bar and then he told me I was bad and had no idea how to play I can't even make this up I can't tell if he was trolling me or not he seemed serious so eh

The game does a terrible job of teaching you bow to play.

1. Overland content is mind-numbingly easy, which gives players a false sense of their abilities. After killing Molag Bal with 3 light attacks, a new player will feel like they can take on anything.
2. The game doesn't clearly explain that damage scales with your resource pool, resulting in people putting attribute points into "balanced" builds.
3. The game doesn't explain the importance of food and potions.

#3 happens largely as a function of #1 though. With overland content being so easy, players don't even think about eating food or drinking potions because they never run into a situation where they need more health or magicka/stamina.

Mind numbingly easy to you NOW, but to most of us, it certainly wasn't (and isn't) with a new character.

Must be nice to be so sanctimonious. Maybe you should give lessons.

By the time you get to Coldharbour, the game is VERY easy. It's only the early and middle levels that are a little challenging, but never to the point where you're forced to use food/potions or learn any kind of advanced mechanics.

What are you considering advanced mechanics?

Blocking, interrupting, breaking free of CC, managing resources, having some kind of rotation.

As I was levelling up, I never understood why the game would prompt me to hit "left click + right click" every time an enemy attacks when I could just kill them without that. I didn't even see a need for 2 ability bars when I could kill any enemy with just one spammable.

It wasn't until I got into dungeons that I learned how to properly play.

I mostly agree with that. I started in MW and there was a brief combat tutorial, but the game itself doesn't reinforce the need for everything that you listed as well as it could.

The last sentence I agree with the most and likely the source of a lot of frustration.

As someone who usually pugs in on tanks for group finders i have had some awful groups and some amazing groups. I've had some groups which looked awful when we load in who pleasantly surprised me (a CP 300 healer running Ebon springs to mind)

I always try to not kick people unless they blatantly do something to deserve it. A DPS running an ice staff and heavy attacking after been told why they shouldn't run one.... kick.

A PvP'er who insists on running sword and board with ransack/pierce armor, despite being told it taunts and that's the reason the boss keeps turning and clobbering them.... kick.

When the reason the DPS is lower is because the group is trying hard but is still learning rotations and the game in general, i'm not kicking them. I've spent the extra 10 minutes getting them theough stuff and then messaged back and forth with tips and advice to help them. Some became guildies and are now counted among friends and reliable team mates for trials and dungeons. There's a lesson there somewhere.

I've had max CP players moan about one of my guildies being in the group as they're "only CP 400, kick them" and i kick the max CP. Obviously a CP 400 Flawless rocking the vCoS skin in a vCoS run is not good enough to grace the presence of a max CP wearing a PvP title.... so we remove the issue.

CP literally does not matter anymore because so many fools sell grind runs of Skyreach and other stuff so there's max CP players who literally know nothing about the game. I had one such person tell me that because they were max CP they should walk all content... and then died to EVERY mechanic in the place (vet Darkshade 2). Max CP used to mean that you'd played the game enough to get to that level. Now it just means you had enough gold or mats to sell to some shmuck who runs you through the same place on repeat...
I mean we have max CP players who don't know how to bash or dodge roll. I mean by the gods it's among the first stiff you learn in game and these guys don't know it....

I used to play a healer in dungeons, but at times when playing with randoms the overall group DPS would be cancerously low. For the most part I would simply swap to my damage bar when everyone's health is topped up, but in vet dungeons and normal dlc dungeons it is just too much of a chore to be the primary damage dealer as a healer, which is why I now only heal in PvP.

One time I was healing Spindleclutch 1 on normal and the group was taking a bit too long to start up so I took the initiative and killed the first group of trash with my damage bar. One of the low level players then complained in group chat that the healer was rushing ahead. I quickly explained that due to my level and gear that I am able to survive random mobs in a normal dungeon and kill them without much effort, but that one low level player kept talking about traditional roles even though in this game at max level one could perform multiple roles especially in a normal dungeon. The other low levels in the group were not backing me up throughout the run so out of spite I decided to simply watch them handle the final boss without my heals or added damage. I kid you not their health constantly dipped to dangerously low levels and they were doing pitiful damage. If this was a DLC dungeon or a part II dungeon they would not have survived. Once the boss' hp hit 50% i swapped to my one damage bar and finished it off. The thing is I was being patient and I tried to explain things about the game that these players were not grasping, but sometimes people are not willing to listen. Sure some people can be elitist in dungeons and expect too much, but sometimes they are just trying to help others get better.

What I like about normal dungeons is that I can play any of my damage builds and feel confident that I can carry the group as long as there are no mechanics that other players absolutely need to know (Dranos Velador for instance T_T). Of course, when other players are interested I thoroughly explain the mechanics. In vet dungeons some might think it is fair to assume that someone who queues for it knows the mechanics and knows their role, but that just does not happen often at least for me. Every time I have had a smooth vet dungeon run it is with guildmates and friends. As others have mentioned the game does not really prepare you for vet content.

Back in the day I thought I had decent DPS at around CP 300, but then I tried to do Vet Maelstrom Arena and couldn't even defeat the last boss of stage 1. This made me rethink the way I was doing things in terms of gear, skills, damage, and survivability. A dead DPS is 0 DPS. Vet Maelstrom Arena taught me how to play the game in the way I want, while still being effective. My main point is that you can't really expect those who queue for vet to know what they are doing. There is a lot of luck involved in getting a good vet group through the queue.

Been playing for a couple years now. Good to know that I must be absolute trash as I can't pull more than 15k single target, and apparently have no business going into dungeons or doing content to get better gear than my crafted purples.

Maybe I should just quit since I am so useless, and not even good enough to pug. Everything I have tried and every build I have used has not improved my output.

Zhaedri wrote: »

Been playing for a couple years now. Good to know that I must be absolute trash as I can't pull more than 15k single target, and apparently have no business going into dungeons or doing content to get better gear than my crafted purples.

Maybe I should just quit since I am so useless, and not even good enough to pug. Everything I have tried and every build I have used has not improved my output.

@Zhaedri , tell us a little more about your class, race, gear (including traits and enchantments), skill bars, CP allocation, mundus stone, food/drink, and rotation. There’s absolutely no reason (short of serious physical disability) why any damage dealer who is committed to improving their DPS should find themselves stuck at 15k. Your damage output is great for normal dungeons, where you can acquire better gear than your crafted gear, but it’s going to drag your group down if you’re completing veteran dungeons (especially vet DLC and story mode 2 dungeons).

Please don’t view this response as an insult, because it’s not. The so-called “elitists” more often than not genuinely want to help anyone with low DPS to improve, because the more players we help, the better veteran dungeon pugs will be for EVERYONE.