Why dont do this unexpected maintenance during NA primetime?

I_killed_Vivec · October 2016

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

GrumpyMuffin wrote: »

mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

Thing is even with a test server one does not always get a feel of what things will do on live. There are a lot more setups on live a lot more people on live often doing things that people do not test for. So there will always be some wrinkles.

The EU login issue would have been present on the test server. It was ignored

Please explain how issues with the combination of two clients into one and the restructuring of addition of the server selection was present during the test with one PTS client without server selection.

We aren't defending the current issues, but they could have never come up during the PTS phase and therefor weren't ignored.

The PTS is not relevant to this problem, but it is clear that the launcher was not adequately tested.

We know this because as soon as you try to log into the EU server it gets redirected to the NA server... it falls at the first hurdle, and so should have been picked up with the most basic testing.

As should have the "fix" that was in the update yesterday that also failed.

[Deleted User] · October 2016

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Wollust · October 2016

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

GrumpyMuffin wrote: »

mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

Thing is even with a test server one does not always get a feel of what things will do on live. There are a lot more setups on live a lot more people on live often doing things that people do not test for. So there will always be some wrinkles.

The EU login issue would have been present on the test server. It was ignored

Please explain how issues with the combination of two clients into one and the restructuring of addition of the server selection was present during the test with one PTS client without server selection.

We aren't defending the current issues, but they could have never come up during the PTS phase and therefor weren't ignored.

@ZOS_KaiSchober
That leaves me with the question as to why that was changed to begin with?
Like.. It has been working for over 2 years just fine, why change that (and potentially break it, as currently experiencing)?

Barnsley · October 2016

LaiTash wrote: »

Barnsley wrote: »

Barnsley wrote: »

DarkLord wrote: »

Not to pile up on ZOS misery but this game is definitely the MMO with more maintenance ever, and I played almost all the relevant MMOs since UO.
6-8 hours for a REGULAR maintenance is just ridiculous, having that more than once a week is unacceptable.
ZOS should really get their act together.

Well it is also the BEST MMO in both gameplay and graphics

No it's not. The only reasons it's good are quests, visual design, and the fact it is a TES game, and we all love TES. Other then that, there are far better games in terms of both graphics and mechanics.

Well that is my opinion and I am comfortable knowing I am not the only one who thinks this way

Elsonso · October 2016

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

GrumpyMuffin wrote: »

mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

Thing is even with a test server one does not always get a feel of what things will do on live. There are a lot more setups on live a lot more people on live often doing things that people do not test for. So there will always be some wrinkles.

The EU login issue would have been present on the test server. It was ignored

Please explain how issues with the combination of two clients into one and the restructuring of addition of the server selection was present during the test with one PTS client without server selection.

We aren't defending the current issues, but they could have never come up during the PTS phase and therefor weren't ignored.

No, this is why ZOS has a testing environment to test for and detect problems like this, right?

tat2mano · October 2016

Barnsley wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

Barnsley wrote: »

Barnsley wrote: »

DarkLord wrote: »

Not to pile up on ZOS misery but this game is definitely the MMO with more maintenance ever, and I played almost all the relevant MMOs since UO.
6-8 hours for a REGULAR maintenance is just ridiculous, having that more than once a week is unacceptable.
ZOS should really get their act together.

Well it is also the BEST MMO in both gameplay and graphics

No it's not. The only reasons it's good are quests, visual design, and the fact it is a TES game, and we all love TES. Other then that, there are far better games in terms of both graphics and mechanics.

Well that is my opinion and I am comfortable knowing I am not the only one who thinks this way

I think ZoS bribed them to get that title of best MMO 2015,only legit thing i can come up with how they got that title last year.
I like the game,lets make that straight,thats also the reason i am complaining on the forum,
if i wouldnt care about this game i wouldnt complain,
but a game with this issues can Not be best MMO,fact.

Rosveen · October 2016

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

GrumpyMuffin wrote: »

mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

Thing is even with a test server one does not always get a feel of what things will do on live. There are a lot more setups on live a lot more people on live often doing things that people do not test for. So there will always be some wrinkles.

The EU login issue would have been present on the test server. It was ignored

Please explain how issues with the combination of two clients into one and the restructuring of addition of the server selection was present during the test with one PTS client without server selection.

We aren't defending the current issues, but they could have never come up during the PTS phase and therefor weren't ignored.

So you're saying it wasn't tested at all, not internally, not ever, and live client changes can always be expected to break in any imaginable way? That's very reassuring.

Thevampirenight · October 2016

Rosveen wrote: »

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

GrumpyMuffin wrote: »

mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

Thing is even with a test server one does not always get a feel of what things will do on live. There are a lot more setups on live a lot more people on live often doing things that people do not test for. So there will always be some wrinkles.

The EU login issue would have been present on the test server. It was ignored

Please explain how issues with the combination of two clients into one and the restructuring of addition of the server selection was present during the test with one PTS client without server selection.

We aren't defending the current issues, but they could have never come up during the PTS phase and therefor weren't ignored.

So you're saying it wasn't tested at all, not internally, not ever, and live client changes can always be expected to break in any imaginable way? That's very reassuring.

In order for them to test those changes they would have had to have a Eu playtest server. Since they only use One playtest server and thats in america they basically could not test this with the pts.

b92303008rwb17_ESO · October 2016

You must be new here. Maintenance in either NA or EU prime time is not even a news in the community.

daswahnsinn · October 2016

This thread got toxic quickly now didn't it. I don't know why some many jumped all over this person about the launcher issues. Software can break and will break with changes no matter how much testing a team can do. Have you ever thought this is why ZOS forum admins don't want to comment on anything anymore? Make's for a *** day when ungrateful children lose their minds because they can't play a damn video game. FFS cut these people some slack they didn't design the game or the launcher.

tat2mano · October 2016

daswahnsinn wrote: »

This thread got toxic quickly now didn't it. I don't know why some many jumped all over this person about the launcher issues. Software can break and will break with changes no matter how much testing a team can do. Have you ever thought this is why ZOS forum admins don't want to comment on anything anymore? Make's for a *** day when ungrateful children lose their minds because they can't play a damn video game. FFS cut these people some slack they didn't design the game or the launcher.

I agree discussion is best performed in a way where people respect each other,
but nobody forced them to work on a gaming forum,they get paid to do so.

And we are the ones that make the money for them....

daswahnsinn · October 2016

tat2mano wrote: »

I agree discussion is best performed in a way where people respect each other,
but nobody forced them to work on a gaming forum,they get paid to do so.

And we are the ones that make the money for them....

I understand that this is their job and they get paid to do this job, but for so many to forget that these are people that have absolutely nothing to do with the current state of the game/launcher is mind blowing. I'm pretty sure Kai is human and probably made some since in his comment. You can test and test but if a issue never comes up, how do you fix it?

Legedric · October 2016

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

GrumpyMuffin wrote: »

mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

Thing is even with a test server one does not always get a feel of what things will do on live. There are a lot more setups on live a lot more people on live often doing things that people do not test for. So there will always be some wrinkles.

The EU login issue would have been present on the test server. It was ignored

Please explain how issues with the combination of two clients into one and the restructuring of addition of the server selection was present during the test with one PTS client without server selection.

We aren't defending the current issues, but they could have never come up during the PTS phase and therefor weren't ignored.

Yes Kai, you are absolutely right saying that it could never come up on the PTS due to the different structure and setup there. So I believe ZOS when they say they did not ignore the problem.

BUT after all this is still just shifting the problem from left to right as it was/is ZOS' fault to not test this in a properly setup environment in the first place.

So no matter how you turn it, ZOS failed hard on the login issue and it doesn't matter what excuse (like the different PTS structure) you may come up with, at the end your (ZOS' - not you in person) failed QA (setup) is the root cause of this issue hitting the live servers.

But well, I already wrote on the German forums how it should've been handled in a project of this size...

I know you are "only" the messanger (not being a developer or manager responsible for any of this) but you are also the only one that is "discussing" with us and I really appreciate that.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · October 2016

I am on NA, but I am sorry for our EU players. But, tonight is my guilds PvP night so I REALLY hope they fix the grouping in Cyrodiil!!! Till then........

Clutch · October 2016

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Stop with the weekly maintenance please since they are useless, just save the maintenance for when there is actually a reason to do, like today. I actually wouldn't be surprised if yesterdays maintenance was the reason for the issues that happened and the need to do another one. Every time after the maintenance there are a ton of issues that weren't there before and nothing is fixed.

Please STAHP!!!!

Every MMO at this point has a maintenance day once a week. My only thought is that ESO tends to take a hell of a lot longer for it to clear through it. But One Tamriel did just launch last week so with a patch so large that changes a lot of the fundamentals of the game, it's understandable for a lot of patches to follow a large update.

Qyrk wrote: »

Many people in europe are working at this time....so fine in that case. Feel sorry for us oceanic where maintenance always hit OUR prime time.

All good though, I'll spend a few more time out here laughing at the type of topics that comes up during maintenance lol.

Being an NA (PST no less) individual over here, Monday happens to be my Saturday so the only issue I have is that I'm usually up all night waiting for the maintenance to end. Otherwise midnight is good for us Americans as the majority are probably in bed.

tat2mano · October 2016

daswahnsinn wrote: »

tat2mano wrote: »

I agree discussion is best performed in a way where people respect each other,
but nobody forced them to work on a gaming forum,they get paid to do so.

And we are the ones that make the money for them....

I understand that this is their job and they get paid to do this job, but for so many to forget that these are people that have absolutely nothing to do with the current state of the game/launcher is mind blowing. I'm pretty sure Kai is human and probably made some since in his comment. You can test and test but if a issue never comes up, how do you fix it?

I agree in most part,but i think its also because ZoS support is so hard to reach,
its really hard to get ur complain taken serious in a normal timeframe,
it takes forever to get passed the numerous auto replies they send out when you make a ticket.
And then after some time being anoyed by that they come to the forum and already are "wind up",
i can understand people will get frustrated over this reguraly.

ZOS_KaiSchober · October 2016

Rosveen wrote: »

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

GrumpyMuffin wrote: »

mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

Thing is even with a test server one does not always get a feel of what things will do on live. There are a lot more setups on live a lot more people on live often doing things that people do not test for. So there will always be some wrinkles.

The EU login issue would have been present on the test server. It was ignored

Please explain how issues with the combination of two clients into one and the restructuring of addition of the server selection was present during the test with one PTS client without server selection.

We aren't defending the current issues, but they could have never come up during the PTS phase and therefor weren't ignored.

So you're saying it wasn't tested at all, not internally, not ever, and live client changes can always be expected to break in any imaginable way? That's very reassuring.

No, I am not saying that. We are to blame for the issues with the server selection. I just couldn't let the very untrue statement that this issue came up during PTS and got ignored pass by without comment.
Even with the understandable rage, we should stick to the facts.

daswahnsinn · October 2016

tat2mano wrote: »

I agree in most part,but i think its also because ZoS support is so hard to reach,
its really hard to get your complain taken serious in a normal time frame,
it takes forever to get passed the numerous auto replies they send out when you make a ticket.
And then after some time being annoyed by that they come to the forum and already are "wind up",
i can understand people will get frustrated over this regularly.

Yes, the support system in it's current state is to be in a sad place. I know I'm guilty of logging in here and getting all sort of stupid with my complaints. I have since learned not to, and try using the help board on here or PM'ing someone to try and get my concerns heard. I try really hard to not jump down peoples throats here, it doesn't fix or help the situation.

KingMagaw · October 2016

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

GrumpyMuffin wrote: »

mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

Thing is even with a test server one does not always get a feel of what things will do on live. There are a lot more setups on live a lot more people on live often doing things that people do not test for. So there will always be some wrinkles.

The EU login issue would have been present on the test server. It was ignored

Please explain how issues with the combination of two clients into one and the restructuring of addition of the server selection was present during the test with one PTS client without server selection.

We aren't defending the current issues, but they could have never come up during the PTS phase and therefor weren't ignored.

So you're saying it wasn't tested at all, not internally, not ever, and live client changes can always be expected to break in any imaginable way? That's very reassuring.

No, I am not saying that. We are to blame for the issues with the server selection. I just couldn't let the very untrue statement that this issue came up during PTS and got ignored pass by without comment.
Even with the understandable rage, we should stick to the facts.

I think this concretes the evidence we have seen thus far that many of the 'fixes' aren't properly tested and this is resulting in inexcusable downtime from a professional company in 2016.

As for business, you should address this issue with a clear solution to improve results first, then make the process efficient.

Ravereth · October 2016

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Because 'Merica!

Reykice · October 2016

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

GrumpyMuffin wrote: »

mlstevens42_ESO wrote: »

Thing is even with a test server one does not always get a feel of what things will do on live. There are a lot more setups on live a lot more people on live often doing things that people do not test for. So there will always be some wrinkles.

The EU login issue would have been present on the test server. It was ignored

Please explain how issues with the combination of two clients into one and the restructuring of addition of the server selection was present during the test with one PTS client without server selection.

We aren't defending the current issues, but they could have never come up during the PTS phase and therefor weren't ignored.

So you're saying it wasn't tested at all, not internally, not ever, and live client changes can always be expected to break in any imaginable way? That's very reassuring.

No, I am not saying that. We are to blame for the issues with the server selection. I just couldn't let the very untrue statement that this issue came up during PTS and got ignored pass by without comment.
Even with the understandable rage, we should stick to the facts.

Yea but the fact is this maintenance is never done during NA day hours, its always during the EU. Not to mention it should have been hot fixed within hours not 1 week after, have guildies who had difficulties logging in... and when they did surprise no addons.

Also why 2 maintenances one after the other why not just one to fix both issues?

This is not the 1st MMO i play but its the worst in maintenance times by far.

ZOS_KaiSchober · October 2016

We're about to open the servers to public again.

daswahnsinn · October 2016

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

We're about to open the servers to public again.

Thanks for the update Kai.

Bucky Balls · October 2016

I wonder what will be broken now?

tat2mano · October 2016

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

We're about to open the servers to public again.

Thanks again for the heads up !
And even more glad to see the ETA was a good one

Khyras · October 2016

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

We're about to open the servers to public again.

Update is not even available for download yet, what are you talking about?

tat2mano · October 2016

Khyras wrote: »

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

We're about to open the servers to public again.

Update is not even available for download yet, what are you talking about?

It updated for me.

71r3n · October 2016

SamboJ wrote: »

Seriously??? third of fourth time in a 2 week period. I pay a subscription and every time I have a few hours spare to play uninterrupted the server is down for maintenance, how long is this maintenance is going to take? ZOS moderator! A time-frame would show good character :P

The maintenance time is really bad, I suppose someone in the world has to draw the shortest straw all the time, honestly feels like my region of the planet is being picked on though. Killing the game at 7-8pm all the time here

thi

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

tat2mano wrote: »

@ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Do we even get to know what this maintenance is up for ?
Or are we left in the dark again...

It's a hotfix for the Cyrodiil group bug that requires some server downtime for about 3 hours.

As announced yesterday night: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/296577/hotfix-10-11-16-grouping-issue-in-cyrodiil

Nice, that how you navigate around a question. No one asked, why it was patched. The question was, why in "our" primetime, not "yours"...
Realy, its a shame i bought 6 months eso + in advance when i see how you handle your costumers...

[Deleted User] · October 2016

The user and all related content has been deleted.

ZOS_KaiSchober · October 2016

71r3n wrote: »

ZOS_KaiSchober wrote: »

tat2mano wrote: »

@ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Do we even get to know what this maintenance is up for ?
Or are we left in the dark again...

It's a hotfix for the Cyrodiil group bug that requires some server downtime for about 3 hours.

As announced yesterday night: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/296577/hotfix-10-11-16-grouping-issue-in-cyrodiil

Nice, that how you navigate around a question. No one asked, why it was patched. The question was, why in "our" primetime, not "yours"...
Realy, its a shame i bought 6 months eso + in advance when i see how you handle your costumers...

The question was "Do we even get to know what this maintenance is up for ?" - which was answered.
I wouldn't call 11am to 1:40pm BST or noon to 2:40pm CEST "your" primetime - unless you're from Australia.