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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8100050/#Comment_8100050
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8100050/#Comment_8100050
Would you buy a new character at lv 50 for...........
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RoyalSlyness✭✭thealteregozero wrote: »
Champoion Points are also convenience i mean it only takes grinding, why not sell 501 CP packs in the Store? VMA weapons only need you to grind until you get the right one, well so does the whole game so lets sell "I`m the BO$$" packs too that contain everything after all its just a convenience item as it only removes the grind.
While 501 CP packs would be fun, it is a bit different as CP is account wide. You don't need all new CP when you create an alt versus needed to grind to level 50 for an alt.Edited by RoyalSlyness on July 30, 2016 7:45PM0 -
UltimaJoe777 wrote: »KochDerDamonen wrote: »thealteregozero wrote: »Nah, I enjoy playing (levelling) my characters and developing them while levelling - it lets me get a feel of what feels right with each of them.
I would be paying not to play... does not make sense to me.
There are only 4 classes............you have 8 character slots.........the 5 character you should by this time pretty much know the ends and outs of this game. that 5th character would be a convenience. At this point not pay to win.
But what does someone 'win' by having it be instant, if they 'win' something what makes it different from xp buffs? They don't have a stronger character than anyone else on the same level. They don't have some free gear or rank or whatever that someone generally 'earns'. They're just level 50. A level that can be earned in less than a day's worth of hours without paying any money (no sub, no marriage, just psijic ambrosia)
I'll just leave this here...
For the record levels apply here too.
Key here are the words "largely unbalanced". Like I said before everybody gets to level 50, without much skill and if they have another level 50 character then probably without much effort either. So paying to get to 50 isn't "largely unbalanced", it just removes one element of grind.
There is a big difference between that and as somebody else suggested, getting Maelstrom weapons. Beating vMSA requires skill and a lot of time, getting to 50 the second time requires neither.
@Runefang THANKYOU for reading the OP.0 -
Hallothiel wrote: »If the OP is suggesting a level 50 with some skill points but nothing else, so they would have to go through the grind for crafting & skyshards etc - what would be the point? Levelling up some of these would probably have given enough XP to have got to level 50 anyway.....but without the understanding of how that build worked.
Not 'convenient' just sad.
And what skill lines can you buy?!
Vampire and warewolf. The point is to make a crafting character without doing ALL of the quests a 2nd....3rd.....4th.........................................8th time.0 -
ZOS_JohanaB✭✭✭✭Recently some comments have been removed from this thread because they were considered to be baiting. While it's understandable that not everyone will agree on this topic at hand, it is expected that everyone will be civil and abide by the Community Rules.1 -
exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm actually annoyed right now, are the majority of people in this thread under the age of 20 or something?
Let me educate you on the god damn definition of p2w as it came to exist initially.
Once upon a time, f2p games were not a *** thing outside of Korean pc bangs, yes before the age of lol or dota outside of the wc3:ft client. Mmos were a niche genre and SC and CS ruled the competitive online environment. If you wanted to play a game, 9 times out of 10 it had to be bought.
In the depths of Asian lan centers however, f2p games thrived and in conjuction with how much money said establishments made, games were specifically designed with 2 things in mind..
1. design the f2p game so that you are required to spend as much time as possible to improve via grinding and other mundane tasks. Thus netting more revenue for the gaming center.
2. Create a cash shop to expedite said grinds while keeping the proverbial carrot on the end of the stick well intact, thus netting more revenue for the game developer / publisher.
Now there was also a much more nefarious practice introduced in said games in the same era. One that would literally give birth to the term pay to win. There is no semantics, no ambiguous definition, no subjective definition for how it would apply to a particular players self imposed win conditions of a given game. The term was used for a simple, irrefutable truth without argument....
Pay to win is the practice of offering, via cash, a statistical advantage in game over players that that do not spend any money in game - and this is important - there is intentionally no in game method for obtaining an equal advantage from the cash shop alternative.
What's happens is at the top end of the spectrum, a player that spends the money, will mathematically be superior, no matter what vs those that do not do the same. If player A purchases the sword of epic dragon slaying from the cash shop, making his power level (over) 9000 and player B has to grind for 2 weeks to get the same sword, *** as it may be, it is not p2w. If the absolute strongest sword obtainable IN GAME is only power level 8500, then you have a pay to win cash shop on your hands, it's as simple as that.
Circumventing a grind or paying for any type of convenience is absolutely not pay to win.
I've said it numerous times even on here, but I'll say it again. Over the years, I'm going to assume a younger generation of gamers that were not around, twisted and morphed what p2w means in an online multiplayer game. That doesn't matter, you don't get to change the meaning of something simply based on your personal perspective.
Now we have come to the point were f2p games are very much a thing, thanks to the mobile game market and the popularity of games such as league and dota etc etc, and thus alot of people have grown accustomed to what is deemed acceptable to put on a cash shop.
Vanity or cosmetic perks are generally universally viewed as thr norm and a-ok.
Qol perks are generally viewed the same as long as they don't feel integral to the game at its core.
Convenience perks tend to devide but the majority of level headed players overrule and they usually stick in cash shops.
Power boosts generally are rare in f2p games but still apear.
Would adding a lvl 50 boost be a *** idea? yes absolutely.
Would it be pay to win? Absolutely not.
To the op, it's an awful idea and not really needed in this game.
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Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Regardless of the definition of P2W, regardless of the banter for and against, and regardless of many of the snippy arguments, I believe that the community has overwhelmingly spoken to their thoughts on the matter.
Almost 10:1 against speaks volumes to me.0 -
RoyalSlyness✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Regardless of the definition of P2W, regardless of the banter for and against, and regardless of many of the snippy arguments, I believe that the community has overwhelmingly spoken to their thoughts on the matter.
Almost 10:1 against speaks volumes to me.
You're wrong. The poll asks would you pay 5000 crowns for a character to be level 50, it does not ask "would you spend crowns to make a character level 50".
What you're doing is like looking at a poll that asks "would you pay $500 for this pizza?" and then looking at the results and saying "See! No one likes that pizza!". I bet if the question polled was "Would you spend crowns to level a character to 50?" you'd see a different set of results.1 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭RoyalSlyness wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Regardless of the definition of P2W, regardless of the banter for and against, and regardless of many of the snippy arguments, I believe that the community has overwhelmingly spoken to their thoughts on the matter.
Almost 10:1 against speaks volumes to me.
You're wrong. The poll asks would you pay 5000 crowns for a character to be level 50, it does not ask "would you spend crowns to make a character level 50".
What you're doing is like looking at a poll that asks "would you pay $500 for this pizza?" and then looking at the results and saying "See! No one likes that pizza!". I bet if the question polled was "Would you spend crowns to level a character to 50?" you'd see a different set of results.
Whatever helps you justify your point I guess. In reality there is a third option of maybe... so you could have answered with that and justified "yes but with a different cost".
Read the poll, read the answers, then come back and tell me that the results are not OVERWHELMINGLY flat against at any cost.0 -
nine9six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No way. All 12 of mine are 50 and you can grind 1 to 50 in a day if you know what you're doing. And will have all skills morph-able and your Armor levels @ 50.
Would spend those crowns on even more Toon Slots, though.
Seriously ZOS, you sell Slots, I'll buy them. All of them.Wake up, we're here. Why are you shaking? Are you ok? Wake up...0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RoyalSlyness wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Regardless of the definition of P2W, regardless of the banter for and against, and regardless of many of the snippy arguments, I believe that the community has overwhelmingly spoken to their thoughts on the matter.
Almost 10:1 against speaks volumes to me.
You're wrong. The poll asks would you pay 5000 crowns for a character to be level 50, it does not ask "would you spend crowns to make a character level 50".
What you're doing is like looking at a poll that asks "would you pay $500 for this pizza?" and then looking at the results and saying "See! No one likes that pizza!". I bet if the question polled was "Would you spend crowns to level a character to 50?" you'd see a different set of results.
Clutching at straws are we?
No matter what cost it would still be pay to win no matter how you want to try to play that down.
If it is to be a competive game and have one once of challenge for the decaying brains of the gotta have it now generations
that can't happen.
If it ever does the people clamoring for p2w will also leave out of boredom.
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Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd rather pay for my skill line es to carry over aswell as champion points.
Levelling to 50 is not as bad as leveling undaunted.0 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd rather pay for my skill line es to carry over aswell as champion points.
Levelling to 50 is not as bad as leveling undaunted.0 -
RoyalSlyness wrote: »TheUrbanWizard wrote: »LOL whats the point of playing a game if you can pay to bypass all the content thats been put there by developers for us to play?
Lazy
This
The reason is that some people don't find questing enjoyable. They do however like doing trials with friends or running in PvP. Going through the same crap over and over again when you just want to try a different class is frustrating. If I get the idea I'd like to play as a Sorc one day I'd rather just jump in, setup my build, grab some gear and get to playing. I don't want to have to do talk to the Prophet five times again or run around looking for 15 bears to kill or run to the same dolmens or delves.
Some people who have never played at all might just get into the game because of a friend. I have a couple friends like this, who I've PVPed with in other games and want to jump in but don't care about the storyline.
This!!!!!!!!!!!!2 -
RoyalSlyness wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »RoyalSlyness wrote: »RoyalSlyness wrote: »TheUrbanWizard wrote: »LOL whats the point of playing a game if you can pay to bypass all the content thats been put there by developers for us to play?
Lazy
This
The reason is that some people don't find questing enjoyable. They do however like doing trials with friends or running in PvP. Going through the same crap over and over again when you just want to try a different class is frustrating. If I get the idea I'd like to play as a Sorc one day I'd rather just jump in, setup my build, grab some gear and get to playing. I don't want to have to do talk to the Prophet five times again or run around looking for 15 bears to kill or run to the same dolmens or delves.
Some people who have never played at all might just get into the game because of a friend. I have a couple friends like this, who I've PVPed with in other games and want to jump in but don't care about the storyline.
Then I say, with no malice intended, play another game. Play something where you can dive right into the action.. because this? This is not a game where you can dive right into the action. If Endgame and PvP are all you are interested in... then why play this game? The Devs have placed, and continued to place, a heavy emphasis on PvE content in general, and storyline content in particular. So why go to a game that isn't, in its intention, constructed in the way you prefer... and then try to change that construction to the detriment of the people who do enjoy it the way it is?
There are MMOs out there which are more combat focused. ESO, due to its lineage, is more storyline focused. If they don't care about the storyline? Maybe don't bring them here.
And I say back, no. Step back and think about this: If paying to get a character to level 50 becomes a thing, it will literally have no impact on you. At all. Your character will not be altered, your play experience will not change. Why are you against something that would increase enjoyment of the game for other people, make the company who created the game money which ensures the future of the game, and have LITERALLY NO IMPACT on your or the game itself? What is the root reason of your contention?
Do you place a high value on being level 50? You shouldn't. Do you think that you've earned some rite of passage by hitting level 50? You haven't. Please explain how you think it will impact you.
The PVP in ESO is fun. I like to play it, that's why I play it and not something else. You can enjoy a game and not want to grind or quest for days and days. As it is right now you're basically sitting here telling me "you're not having fun the correct way!", which is silly.
But since this patch you don't have to grind for days you can get to 50 in like 6-8hours. It was speficially changed for the reason of making new characters.
And why shouldn't people place having multiple 50 characters as high, it was only this patch that a lot of people started to make more characters. I'm going to assume you've been here for more than a month and know how hard it was to get to v16?
Do you know the amount of time it took to get v16? the amount of time grinding, the amount of time doing cadwell's silver and gold? and how many times people had to do it.
So yes people are going to be annoyed that someone can basically play the game for a few days and then decide they want 12x 50 characters with nothing but a wallet.
This IS a step in the p2w direction whether you see that or not you poll says everything, so continue to defend it you lost a while a go it seems.
Placing value on multiple level 50 characters just means you've spent more time in the game doing the same thing over and over again than other people. Not really something to be proud of.
I (and others) have a job, a relationship, friends, and other responsibilities outside of ESO. 6-8 hours of gameplay can take weeks to get in. The fact that getting to VR16 was such a grind before wasn't a positive feature, it was a design flaw. Again, P2W implies you have an advantage over other players because you spent money. Level 50 is level 50, if anything someone who is level 50 that paid for it would be at a disadvantage because of their lack of time with the class.
Really all your post says is that you get a sense of superiority by being able to say you've for multiple level 50's and don't want that diminished, which is silly. The fact that you spent hours in Old Orsinium or Imperial Sewers doesn't mean you've earned some badge of honor, it means your couch has a bigger dent than the other guy.
I totally agree!1 -
KramUzibra wrote: »thealteregozero wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »thealteregozero wrote: »
To walk into a lvl 50 char would also mean that they have to give you all the skill points and attribute points associated with level 50. If that's not pay to win, what is?
The dilemma here is time...........time in this game is a convenience.......hence the banker and market companions, exp scrolls, rings of mara.....
Having to grind a character to 50 FIRST before having this option unlocked to the player isnt pay to win......
it's convenience. Convenience in this game = time. Not pay to win.
What's next? 100 cp for 5000 crowns?? I mean time is convenienice right?
That would never happen. That would be pay to win.0 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »Someone that knows what they're doing can level from 1 - 50 in 4 hours or less anyway.
I have no clue how this could even happen.
I'm not saying it can't, I'm just saying that it's so alien to my playstyle/sense of the game that I can't even really imagine it. Back during "cake" week, I used that AND an XP potion and grind-ed the heck out of one of those wrothgar dungeons.... I think it was 6 vet levels in 4 hours or so.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭thealteregozero wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »thealteregozero wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »thealteregozero wrote: »
To walk into a lvl 50 char would also mean that they have to give you all the skill points and attribute points associated with level 50. If that's not pay to win, what is?
The dilemma here is time...........time in this game is a convenience.......hence the banker and market companions, exp scrolls, rings of mara.....
Having to grind a character to 50 FIRST before having this option unlocked to the player isnt pay to win......
it's convenience. Convenience in this game = time. Not pay to win.
What's next? 100 cp for 5000 crowns?? I mean time is convenienice right?
That would never happen. That would be pay to win.
So CP points are pay to win, but levels are not? Wow.1 -
Kronuxx✭✭✭✭RoyalSlyness wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Regardless of the definition of P2W, regardless of the banter for and against, and regardless of many of the snippy arguments, I believe that the community has overwhelmingly spoken to their thoughts on the matter.
Almost 10:1 against speaks volumes to me.
You're wrong. The poll asks would you pay 5000 crowns for a character to be level 50, it does not ask "would you spend crowns to make a character level 50".
What you're doing is like looking at a poll that asks "would you pay $500 for this pizza?" and then looking at the results and saying "See! No one likes that pizza!". I bet if the question polled was "Would you spend crowns to level a character to 50?" you'd see a different set of results.
It seems you might be wrong here. I'll tell you why as I'm sure I'm not the only one but...guess what? I didn't read your post, only the poll headline. And guess what your poll headline says? That's right, it says exactly as you stated: "Would you buy a new character at level 50?" Well, no I wouldn't. Now after reading your post, I saw your 5000 crown price mark, but just as others have done I'm sure, I and they did not bother to read your post but rather vote based on what info your poll headline suggested.
Now of course this would be all moot if you decided to change the headline of the poll recently. If that's the case, well time will tell. But also realize that only a minority visit the forums. In addition as it is, the sample size of the poll is too small and thus the statistical power of this poll is low, so unlikely you can make any decent extrapolations to the general ESO community.
Edited by Kronuxx on July 31, 2016 12:36AM0 -
Eshelmen✭✭✭✭✭LOL If buying a level 50 toon is considered pay 2 win, then I'll say buying horse upgrades using crowns is the same. Or buying 2 hour XP pots.
Level 50 is just a number. In this game, it's about gear and CP to maximize said gears potential. The time it takes to get to level 50 is only a mere fraction of the time it takes to hit cp cap or to gold out the right build at level 50 cp160.
I really don't care if they have level 50s for purchase. Tons of other games do it too. Not all of us have the time to grind this game out. If they want to purchase it, by all means I don't care. It'll only save them what, less than 20 hours of grind anyways. Which isn't much at all. Some of you do 20 hours in under 2 days.
Once Tamriel One gets launched(PVE speaking), being a specific level will be even more pointless.
I personally wouldn't buy it. But I wouldn't really care if it was an option. I will say this though. If they did implement that option, it's time to start focusing on adding end game content instead of adding more benefits for noobies. At that point, there will be virtually no excuse to not.
It's been well over two years, if the noobs still havent figured out how to get to level 50, give them a purchase option so Zeni literally has zero excuses for waiting on the rest of them to catch up in order to add more vet content.Edited by Eshelmen on July 31, 2016 12:53AMPC and PS4 EP only player1 -
Talyena✭✭✭✭I wouldn't do it but I wouldn't care if they did as long as it didn't come with maxed out skills or any skill points other than those related to leveling. Running the quests, getting the skyshards and leveling the skills takes much longer than leveling to 50. So if people want to fork over big bucks to support the game and buy characters they still have to level up (as far as skills go) then more power to them.2
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I wouldn't do it but I wouldn't care if they did as long as it didn't come with maxed out skills or any skill points other than those related to leveling. Running the quests, getting the skyshards and leveling the skills takes much longer than leveling to 50. So if people want to fork over big bucks to support the game and buy characters they still have to level up (as far as skills go) then more power to them.
THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I wouldn't do it but I wouldn't care if they did as long as it didn't come with maxed out skills or any skill points other than those related to leveling. Running the quests, getting the skyshards and leveling the skills takes much longer than leveling to 50. So if people want to fork over big bucks to support the game and buy characters they still have to level up (as far as skills go) then more power to them.
But if you were insta50, you could steamroll about a dozen lower level maps and collect probably 100-140 skyshards in about an hour - maybe less if you had the skyshard map that EVERYONE has.
BANG! 45 skill points in an hour.0 -
Eshelmen✭✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »I wouldn't do it but I wouldn't care if they did as long as it didn't come with maxed out skills or any skill points other than those related to leveling. Running the quests, getting the skyshards and leveling the skills takes much longer than leveling to 50. So if people want to fork over big bucks to support the game and buy characters they still have to level up (as far as skills go) then more power to them.
But if you were insta50, you could steamroll about a dozen lower level maps and collect probably 100-140 skyshards in about an hour - maybe less if you had the skyshard map that EVERYONE has.
BANG! 45 skill points in an hour.
Not when Tamriel One rolls out.PC and PS4 EP only player1 -
AtmaDarkwolf✭✭✭buying horse upgrades. (OR bank upgrades. Or bag upgrades) in the crown store is PAY TO WIN.
your paying cash to bypass the in game costs/waits to increase your stats.
Its PAY TO WIN.
'Buying' a pre-leveled character is ALSO pay to win.
How can someone, who claims to be intelligent, not see this?
and Yes, if they added foolishry like this in the game, I'd prob quit on the spot. The moment I heard they were even CONSIDERING it would be when I start to CONSIDER to leave. I don't care if it hardly effects me or not, the 'bag space' was close enough to a reason to ditch, but its acceptable (I Don't know many games these days that DON'T have a bag-boost idea in the cash shop, many have this as only option with no in-game way to do such a thing.)
I already am 'on the fence' about such things as the mount training, bag space, werewolf/vamp skill lines, etc, and feel these are just 'tricks' to make people throw money at them, but are somewhat acceptable because they are all available in game and don't provide a 'big upgrade' over a free person. But pre-levleed toons would be an annoyance, NO MATTER HOW quick it 'can be' to level to 50, it's still wrong. Really hoping dev's are paying attention to what the players want here and don't pull some idiocy to try to make a few extra bucks.0 -
Travy_2Hype✭✭✭thealteregozero wrote: »5,000 crowns?
If ESO allowed you to buy another lv 50 character after you leveled a character on your account to lvl 50 for 5,000 crowns would you buy it? Would you pay for this convenience?
You would get 64 skill points still HOWEVER.......YOU WOULD STILL have to lvl SKILL LINES, GUILDS, PVP, CRAFTING, and WEAPONS SKILLS.........
5,000 crowns......
I don't mind having to level up new characters to lv50+ it doesn't take that much time to do so.
However, what I wouldn't mind having, or buying is the ability that when I do make new characters that my Crafting skills, Environment/DLC, and Guilds all carry over. One of the worst things with having a new character is that all those skills that are a complete grind are back at 1.X-Box: EU
Orc Stamina DragonKnight - Tank
Altmer Magicka Templar - DPS
Redguard Stamina Sorcerer - DPS0 -
Wow✭✭✭✭✭By Stendarr, I cant believe this thread is still going on
I'm a Godot Engine and GameMaker enthusiast from the most populated island on earth, Java, Indonesia. Coffee is my staple fuel, and durian is my favourite fruit. I'm currently building a Godot Community site.1 -
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