Wayrest Misogynists

Thymos · September 2015

@UrQuan Maybe I would've taken it better if it was composed more of a request on information on how to handle a situation, instead of just posting an observation and then complaining about it.

To me, the OP reads more of just a simple statement, and not asking for help on the matter.

And the phrase pot calling the kettle black is not really about feeling superior, but calling out someone for something you're already guilty of. Admitting to it doesn't mean it nullifies that it applied to the OP.

Yes, now he knows what to do. Everyone made it clear. Inaction is not a solution. That doesn't mean I have to be comforting.

mortemize · September 2015

Thymos, I think you have the wrong impression of me. "Good Samaritan" most of the time? No.

I'm not here looking for comfort either. Do you think that I'm emotionally scarred now and I'm here to be consoled? Because that is not the case. I've experienced far worse IRL. I suppose I'm just here to vent about a ridiculous situation that should not have occurred in the first place. It may be common for some, however, this is the first time I've encountered it in-game.

I commend you for not taking it easy on those that do nothing. I really do. Nothing good can come from being apathetic about this.

I'll be harder on myself than any comment could. Trust me.

mortemize · September 2015

willymchilybily wrote: »

mortemize wrote: »

By the time I realized that I should record a clip, too much time had already passed.

PS4 has 14 minutes of gameplay recorded whats it like on xbox1?

Most clips I've recorded are only 28 seconds. Sometimes the auto-recorded clips go a little over a minute.

efster · September 2015

You agree not to use any Service to:

(snip)

Harass, stalk, threaten, embarrass, spam or do anything else to another user of any Services that is unwanted, such as repeatedly sending unwanted messages or making personal attacks or statements about race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc.;

ZOS should do better by explicitly including gender in their ToS instead of just vaguely including it under an "etc". The way it's worded now, you'd think gender-based harassment and bullying doesn't happen often enough to warrant a specific mention.

Thymos · September 2015

zmobie_dementor wrote: »

You agree not to use any Service to:

(snip)

Harass, stalk, threaten, embarrass, spam or do anything else to another user of any Services that is unwanted, such as repeatedly sending unwanted messages or making personal attacks or statements about race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc.;

ZOS should do better by explicitly including gender in their ToS instead of just vaguely including it under an "etc". The way it's worded now, you'd think gender-based harassment and bullying doesn't happen often enough to warrant a specific mention.

I think it falls under the Harass part, right at the beginning. Even personal attacks would cover it. The part you're focusing on is statements about a specific group. Like saying "Women are X," or "Christians are X." The attacks were at a specific person, they used derogatory words.

likelolwhat · September 2015

Thymos wrote: »

zmobie_dementor wrote: »

You agree not to use any Service to:

(snip)

Harass, stalk, threaten, embarrass, spam or do anything else to another user of any Services that is unwanted, such as repeatedly sending unwanted messages or making personal attacks or statements about race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc.;

ZOS should do better by explicitly including gender in their ToS instead of just vaguely including it under an "etc". The way it's worded now, you'd think gender-based harassment and bullying doesn't happen often enough to warrant a specific mention.

I think it falls under the Harass part, right at the beginning. Even personal attacks would cover it. The part you're focusing on is statements about a specific group. Like saying "Women are X," or "Christians are X." The attacks were at a specific person, they used derogatory words.

That doesn't mean they weren't implying that "Women are X", just not in so many words. They weren't just attacking her by calling her whatever names they used. Derogatory language has that effect.

ETA: emphasis

SeptimusDova · September 2015

An act of Omission is the Same as an act of Commission. Mortemize have the courage of your convictions. Have a plan and Act. It happens . Psychobunnyrabbit gave you some great advice . Take it and use it.

Kalfis · September 2015

I think this is a fake post carried out by the EP to try and discredit DC.

IM ON TO YOU.

UrQuan · September 2015

Thymos wrote: »

@UrQuan Maybe I would've taken it better if it was composed more of a request on information on how to handle a situation, instead of just posting an observation and then complaining about it.

To me, the OP reads more of just a simple statement, and not asking for help on the matter.

And the phrase pot calling the kettle black is not really about feeling superior, but calling out someone for something you're already guilty of. Admitting to it doesn't mean it nullifies that it applied to the OP.

No, the phrase is about hypocrisy. It's not hypocrisy if you're criticizing yourself as well as others who are the same as you. It's only hypocrisy if you're criticizing them for something that you don't believe you deserve to be criticized for.

Either way, your attitude does more harm than good. By promoting a hostile environment for people who bring up such topics, just because you feel they didn't do enough at the time, you're discouraging people from talking about a real problem. If we discourage people from talking about misogyny by attacking those who bring it up (for whatever reason), then we're actually encouraging the misogynists.

Thymos · September 2015

self moderation

UrQuan · September 2015

Thymos wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Thymos wrote: »

@UrQuan Maybe I would've taken it better if it was composed more of a request on information on how to handle a situation, instead of just posting an observation and then complaining about it.

To me, the OP reads more of just a simple statement, and not asking for help on the matter.

And the phrase pot calling the kettle black is not really about feeling superior, but calling out someone for something you're already guilty of. Admitting to it doesn't mean it nullifies that it applied to the OP.

No, the phrase is about hypocrisy. It's not hypocrisy if you're criticizing yourself as well as others who are the same as you. It's only hypocrisy if you're criticizing them for something that you don't believe you deserve to be criticized for.

Either way, your attitude does more harm than good. By promoting a hostile environment for people who bring up such topics, just because you feel they didn't do enough at the time, you're discouraging people from talking about a real problem. If we discourage people from talking about misogyny by attacking those who bring it up (for whatever reason), then we're actually encouraging the misogynists.

You must've missed the OP's latest post.

You must've missed where I'm not talking about whether OP minds... I'm talking specifically about your attitude being the type of thing that discourages people reading this thread from posting about their own experiences. How many people are going to read your posts attacking OP and say "sheesh, I'm just not going to talk about what happened, because I'm going to get jumped on just like he did".

likelolwhat · September 2015

Thymos wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Thymos wrote: »

@UrQuan Maybe I would've taken it better if it was composed more of a request on information on how to handle a situation, instead of just posting an observation and then complaining about it.

To me, the OP reads more of just a simple statement, and not asking for help on the matter.

And the phrase pot calling the kettle black is not really about feeling superior, but calling out someone for something you're already guilty of. Admitting to it doesn't mean it nullifies that it applied to the OP.

No, the phrase is about hypocrisy. It's not hypocrisy if you're criticizing yourself as well as others who are the same as you. It's only hypocrisy if you're criticizing them for something that you don't believe you deserve to be criticized for.

Either way, your attitude does more harm than good. By promoting a hostile environment for people who bring up such topics, just because you feel they didn't do enough at the time, you're discouraging people from talking about a real problem. If we discourage people from talking about misogyny by attacking those who bring it up (for whatever reason), then we're actually encouraging the misogynists.

You must've missed the OP's latest post.

mortemize wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

mortemize wrote: »

By the time I realized that I should record a clip, too much time had already passed.

PS4 has 14 minutes of gameplay recorded whats it like on xbox1?

Most clips I've recorded are only 28 seconds. Sometimes the auto-recorded clips go a little over a minute.

That one?

efster · September 2015

Thymos wrote: »

zmobie_dementor wrote: »

You agree not to use any Service to:

(snip)

Harass, stalk, threaten, embarrass, spam or do anything else to another user of any Services that is unwanted, such as repeatedly sending unwanted messages or making personal attacks or statements about race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc.;

ZOS should do better by explicitly including gender in their ToS instead of just vaguely including it under an "etc". The way it's worded now, you'd think gender-based harassment and bullying doesn't happen often enough to warrant a specific mention.

I think it falls under the Harass part, right at the beginning. Even personal attacks would cover it. The part you're focusing on is statements about a specific group. Like saying "Women are X," or "Christians are X." The attacks were at a specific person, they used derogatory words.

When someone attacks a woman with a misogynistic slur, they are using language that has a specific historical context of having been used to dehumanise women in general. For (too) many women, those slurs are associated with very negative personal experiences as well, and the slurs can be upsetting or even harmful (depending on the person's mental state) even when they are not directed at that person specifically but merely overheard. That's why gender-specific (and race-specific, sexuality-specific, etc) slurs are worse than just calling someone a blockhead or an a-hole in zone chat; they are not just hurting that one person, they are potentially hurting others like them who also happen to be reading/listening. ZOS should do better at explicitly disallowing that kind of behaviour on its servers.

mortemize · September 2015

[/quote]

You must've missed the OP's latest post.

[/quote]

While I agree with (and commended you for) not coddling those who don't speak up when the situation presents itself, I think you should still consider what some of the others like UrQuan are saying to you. I agree with them as well.

I'm also fully aware that my original post should have been worded differently. I'm actually not trying to be confrontational, I just despise misogyny just as I do misandry.

Semantics...

ZOS_Alex · September 2015

Hi, everyone.

We understand that people are going to disagree from time to time, but please remember to keep your comments respectful at all times on our forums, even when you disagree with others. Insults or other disruptive behavior do not help further discussion and can move a thread off topic quickly. We encourage sharing opinions, but we ask that they are constructively stated when doing so, as this will help keep the discussion on track. Thank you!

likelolwhat · September 2015

Back to topic!

zmobie_dementor wrote: »

Thymos wrote: »

zmobie_dementor wrote: »

You agree not to use any Service to:

(snip)

Harass, stalk, threaten, embarrass, spam or do anything else to another user of any Services that is unwanted, such as repeatedly sending unwanted messages or making personal attacks or statements about race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc.;

ZOS should do better by explicitly including gender in their ToS instead of just vaguely including it under an "etc". The way it's worded now, you'd think gender-based harassment and bullying doesn't happen often enough to warrant a specific mention.

I think it falls under the Harass part, right at the beginning. Even personal attacks would cover it. The part you're focusing on is statements about a specific group. Like saying "Women are X," or "Christians are X." The attacks were at a specific person, they used derogatory words.

When someone attacks a woman with a misogynistic slur, they are using language that has a specific historical context of having been used to dehumanise women in general. For (too) many women, those slurs are associated with very negative personal experiences as well, and the slurs can be upsetting or even harmful (depending on the person's mental state) even when they are not directed at that person specifically but merely overheard. That's why gender-specific (and race-specific, sexuality-specific, etc) slurs are worse than just calling someone a blockhead or an a-hole in zone chat; they are not just hurting that one person, they are potentially hurting others like them who also happen to be reading/listening. ZOS should do better at explicitly disallowing that kind of behaviour on its servers.

I should have written this! Why didn't I write this?

To be clear, I agree completely. Slurs are not just targeted at specific people, they are targeted at entire groups of people.

ZOS_AlanG · September 2015

Harassment is a violation of ESOTU's Terms of Service. If you encounter this please report it; instructions on how to do this for the various platforms can be found here.

likelolwhat · September 2015

Thanks @ZOS_AlanG ! I think part of the problem sometimes is not knowing how to report. I've heard it's a bit more complicated for consoles.

Rook_Master · September 2015

N'wah, please. I've Nerevar heard of such harrassment.

Thymos · September 2015

The point I was getting at was that it was already violating the first part of what was quoted from the terms.

Corellon Thromorin · September 2015

Oh, I really hate when people hurt my feelings on the internet.
I agree with you, evil people that have no consideration for the feelings of others must be tortured expelled from the internet.

UrQuan · September 2015

Corellon Thromorin wrote: »

Oh, I really hate when people hurt my feelings on the internet.
I agree with you, evil people that have no consideration for the feelings of others must be tortured expelled from the internet.

Ah yes, the old "the harassment happened on the internet so it doesn't count" argument.

Corellon Thromorin · September 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Corellon Thromorin wrote: »

Oh, I really hate when people hurt my feelings on the internet.
I agree with you, evil people that have no consideration for the feelings of others must be tortured expelled from the internet.

Ah yes, the old "the harassment happened on the internet so it doesn't count" argument.

Of course it counts. No one likes to hear hurtful things. People should be more considerate of other human beings that are playing too.
Human beings are fragile, that's why Mer are superior.

mortemize · September 2015

Corellon Thromorin wrote: »

Oh, I really hate when people hurt my feelings on the internet.
I agree with you, evil people that have no consideration for the feelings of others must be tortured expelled from the internet.

Sarcasm? Serious?

Anyway, why does it always have to go there? 'This person is expressing their dislike of something, well then they must have "hurt feelings" or is an 'anti-'whatever. Seems to be a common idiom used to discount real issues...

They're not necessarily evil either, but their actions certainly do lend credence to the type of character that they possess.

Corellon Thromorin · September 2015

mortemize wrote: »

Corellon Thromorin wrote: »

Oh, I really hate when people hurt my feelings on the internet.
I agree with you, evil people that have no consideration for the feelings of others must be tortured expelled from the internet.

Sarcasm? Serious?

Anyway, why does it always have to go there? 'This person is expressing their dislike of something, well then they must have "hurt feelings" or is an 'anti-'whatever. Seems to be a common idiom used to discount real issues...

They're not necessarily evil either, but their actions certainly do lend credence to the type of character that they possess.

The point is that instead of reporting the players, OP came here to create pointless drama to flood the forum with a useless thread about something that won't be changed because that's the way things are.
Should have reported and ignored them, that is what should be done. Period.

mortemize · September 2015

Corellon Thromorin wrote: »

mortemize wrote: »

Corellon Thromorin wrote: »

Oh, I really hate when people hurt my feelings on the internet.
I agree with you, evil people that have no consideration for the feelings of others must be tortured expelled from the internet.

Sarcasm? Serious?

Anyway, why does it always have to go there? 'This person is expressing their dislike of something, well then they must have "hurt feelings" or is an 'anti-'whatever. Seems to be a common idiom used to discount real issues...

They're not necessarily evil either, but their actions certainly do lend credence to the type of character that they possess.

The point is that instead of reporting the players, OP came here to create pointless drama to flood the forum with a useless thread about something that won't be changed because that's the way things are.
Should have reported and ignored them, that is what should be done. Period.

I did not come here to create drama. Seriously, that's what you're assuming?

'"That's just the way things are". So things should never change for the better... seems logical (not)

Feel free to lock this thread, mods.

Goodbye.

likelolwhat · September 2015

I don't think we're going to get anywhere in this thread if people keep griefing, so I agree on locking it.

k2blader · September 2015

This game is the worst I've played for how women are treated, hands down. Is it a generational thing? Because most of the a-holes I've heard/seen seem to be 20s or maybe younger.

It's really sad when most folks-- men or women-- are simply trying to enjoy a game and spending well-deserved time to do so. Why not help make the experience enjoyable for other players? Treat people like you'd like to be treated. It's not rocket science.

Waffennacht · September 2015

I always mute area chat... not once has anyone said anything I wanna hear. It works wonders.

rotaugen454 · September 2015

Was this on PC or console? 2 out of my 8 characters are female, and it's been rare to get any harassment on PC. My younger sister gets harassed just about every time she plays ESO on her PS4. While no platform has a monopoly on jerks, I think the average console player is younger than the average gaming PC player simply due to cost, and it's the pre-teen to young 20s crowd that seems the worst.