Pibbles wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Pibbles wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

All this stealth crap never hit PTS, btw.

ZOS' opinion of their bug testing abilities is a lot higher than it should be.

So it was a case that both the Shadow Cloak and stealth radius bug did not appear on PTS, not that they appeared but were not resolved there?

Most of the involved changes didn't even hit PTS. They were thrown into the patch without any testing.

I read a lot about testing 1.4 on PTS, but I am guessing that it was an earlier 1.4.x to that which went live, in that case? Implication being they ran out of time to hit that coming week's release date and rolled a lot of non-PTS changes into the final 1.4.x patch that went live.

Maybe the simple answer is, slow down the patching to put more rigor around it by ensuring everything goes onto PTS. I mean, patching is not exactly fast at ZOS, we're 6 months in and have broken skills all over the place, but if it means that a patch does not break MORE stuff, then perhaps slower is better, painful as that is.

well the problem is, they ignored pretty much all, or at least most (since I am not privy to all the bug reports) bugs that were reported. So even the stuff they had time to run by PTS still got implemented riddled with bugs. And this is a consistent issue with ZOS and this game.

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

The hate comes because there are no real large disadvantages from being a vampire. Sure your in combat health Regen is 10 while a normal players in 40 maybe(unless you geared for health regen which you could do as a vampire as well) thats not game changing. ---[irrelevant quote removed, this is NOT DnD, NOT Bram Stoker's, NOT any other faulty comparison, this is ESO]---

In eso you don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it. That's why there is hate for vampires whether people realize that's why they hate it or not it is the reason. It would be like saying you could trade in 1 point of health for any other stat in the game weapon damage stamina crit what ever you want then giving the player an item or skill that negates 100% damage. Sensationalized for the purpose of helping you understand. So why not trade in all your health but 1 point when you know there will be no significant drawbacks?

Edit: becoming a vampire doesn't require you to play any differently and there are several abilities in the tree that help.you regain your life such as drain essence and feeding the latter doesn't even take up a slot on your bar cc the affected enemy unbreakable unless someone else can cc the vampire and heals you. I'd call that a 6th ability for the vampire and a huge advantage thus alone pretty well negates any negative a vampire has. To go from 10 regular slots to 12 and have such a poweful ability it really is hard to believe not everyone is a vampire.

First off, let me just state: You clearly have no idea what the hell you are talking about.


According to you, Vamps have major advantages and no disadvantages other than poor regen which is made up for by the ability to drain and feed. You also said being Vamp doesn't require us to play any different.

I like how you say "don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it."
Your post is the The Hallmark of Ignorance.

Do you even play this game?

Newsflash, Fighter's Guild abilities work against Vamps. In fact you can completely shut a vamp down with them. The entire skill line applies hard CC and extra damage.
Can you use them on a normal player? Nope.
Can you 1 Shot a normal player with Camo Hunter/Snipe/Weave/ability? Nope. That sure as hell sounds like a disadvantage to me...

Fire damage...? We are forced to use resist items in place of other clutch enchants.

Passives that do not work:
Undeath, this has been broken since beta and still does not work and takes up 2 skill points.
Unnatural Resistance, with this passive I still have sub-par regen. Takes a skill point.

So all of this is offset by our ability to drain someone? Are you serious? A channeled spell which has a debuff element (in other words if he has been drained already by someone else you can't drain him or feed) which is notorious for cancelling and applying the debuff without actually draining. Let's not forget while draining an opponent you can be interrupted thus ruining the ability completely.

I am glad you mentioned feeding, our advantageous 6th skill that breaks the game. Something you failed to mention is that we must be stealthed, up close and behind our target who then must be free of any drain debuffs. You also didn't mention that it does not do any damage to the player, nor does it heal us the way our drain ability does. More importantly you failed to mention that by using this ability we now reduce our vampire stage thus increasing our ability costs, including our ultimate. This for the sake of a cc, actually sets back vampires. Most vampires stay in stage 4 and will never use "feed."


You really should learn about something before you spout off parroting some other ignoramus. Vamp's skills have been bugged like crazy since beta. They are still screwed up. In fact the only perks right now are Dark Stalker (something you can get from gear), Mistform (yay I can go cloud for a few seconds while being unable to heal, cast, melee), and Swarm.. which is bugged out now and not working half the time players spam their ult key.

Lastly, the hate comes from 2 things:
1. Idiots.
Idiots fail to understand a lot of their problems are self inflicted. Lack of understanding, poor awareness, poor optimization, overall general ignorance. This is plays a monumental role in the blame game. Due to a seemingly high self worth, they feel if someone beat them, obviously the class/ability is overpowered. Clearly they did everything right and no one should be able to do what that person did to them... *insert fallacious reasoning*
The forum is rife with this nonsense.

2. Vamp Emperors.
Since release numerous youtube videos have been posted showing Vampire Emperors beating groups of people. Usually a legendary tale is told about 1 lone Vamp Emp who soloed an entire faction by himself with batswarm and killed everyone and won the internet.

They usually fail to tell you that Emperor had friends, had heals, required a bunch of noobs to stand still inside his swarm. They also don't tell you their failure to optimize CC builds to shut his ass down. Something easily done. More importantly they refuse to mention all the non vamp Emperors who are just as hard to kill, particularly Templars who ult spam and heal up while groups try and bring them down.

After a while of posting this type of stuff people (like yourself) begin parroting all kinds of nonsense about Vampires. The results are interesting: Like the old saying, "When you tell a lie loud enough, long enough, it eventually becomes true."

Of course you can combine above reasons 1&2 as they often go together like hand in glove.

I played vampire for quite a while actually I know exactly what it is like to be a vampire and the disadvantages you are trying to sensationalize. Attacking me personally again very classy that again is proof of an argument lost. Just because you throw a few names around doesn't immediately invalidate any of my arguments. I never said feed did damage and already addressed the issue of staying in stage 4. This leads me to believe either you didn't read the post or can't comprehend it so maybe I can help you. Sure you have skill points invested in vampire I get that hardly a disadvantage. Almost as disadvantageous as me having to put skill points into the skill lines I want to use. Feed is a free heal for no skill bar slot cost who cares the stipulations for using it it's a free 6th slot. I've never once had a vampire ability bug for me but am not debating whether or not they have worked for you. Over time vampirism has been the culprit of many exploits. Including now looking at you Mistform exploit. But since you brought up fighters guild and I'm glad you did we can talk about that. The abilities do slightly more damage to you yes and actually are the one thing close to a large disadvantage vampires have. The do work on non vampire players though something you didn't know as per your post(but since you seem to think they don't that would put others players at a disadvantage for having to slot abilities to counter vampires specifically this one is a wash as far as I'm concerned sometimes you will deal extra damage sometimes you will not). They can however also have their cc portion negated by immovable but nobody ever runs that in pvp right? I mean why would they do that resistance to hard cc including knockdown yeah a majority of people who do well in pvp have never ever considered running this because no one ccs in this game as you have pointed out so clearly for us. As for the extra damage from these abilities I shall concede that point they do, do some extra damage. It is my personal opinion they do not do enough extra but we won't consider my personal opinions I will just stick to the things I know to be true of vampirism. Fire damage hits everyone for true damage due to bugged spell penetration of light armor/sharpened trait users if they fix this we shall then be able to consider it a disadvantage as of right now it is not. You accuse me of using other people arguments when all of these thoughts are my own, if others share them which it seems many do, that is because they are true and people notice them. So yes in conclusion to refute your points I stand by my post. You however just go on a tirade about ignorance when you failed to understand the situation. I will be finished debating you on this because we shall probably never see eye to eye on it and you lack the ability to keep it civil. And to.think we could have had a meaningful discussion about this but you ruined it. Congrats sir. Emperor is another issue all together that we could have also discussed calmly but all rational thought went out the window when I pointed out some issues with vampirism.

I couldn't bring myself to read all this but fighter's guild effects do not work on non-supernatural creatures.

Does silver shards do damage to other players? Yes, some. But you will never get the knock down or the crit.

Fighter's guild abilities state very clearly what hits who. The effects are underwhelming and all of 0 passives are relevant to non supernaturals.

More misinformation.

He never personally attacked you, either. You however, did personally attack him.

I would love to see where I attacked him personally. If me pointing out that he was calling me ignorant or an idiot is a personal attack then you might need to rethink that one. Unfortunately you seemed like you were of some knowledge and grounded for a while but sadly I was mistaken. You do not take the time to read and spout back information I rebutted in the previous post. Then you go on to tellet me fighters guild abilities don't work on humans then turn around and say they do. Thanks for letting me know having a discussion with you was not worth the time as well.

I don't want to keep talking about this and derailing an important thread so I will say this:

You wouldn't use FG attacks on regular players because that are substandard at best. You're just playing semantics. You would be crippling yourself using those abilities on non supernatural players.

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

I played vampire for quite a while actually I know exactly what it is like to be a vampire and the disadvantages you are trying to sensationalize. Attacking me personally again very classy that again is proof of an argument lost. Just because you throw a few names around doesn't immediately invalidate any of my arguments. I never said feed did damage and already addressed the issue of staying in stage 4. This leads me to believe either you didn't read the post or can't comprehend it so maybe I can help you. Sure you have skill points invested in vampire I get that hardly a disadvantage. Almost as disadvantageous as me having to put skill points into the skill lines I want to use. Feed is a free heal for no skill bar slot cost who cares the stipulations for using it it's a free 6th slot. I've never once had a vampire ability bug for me but am not debating whether or not they have worked for you. Over time vampirism has been the culprit of many exploits. Including now looking at you Mistform exploit. But since you brought up fighters guild and I'm glad you did we can talk about that. The abilities do slightly more damage to you yes and actually are the one thing close to a large disadvantage vampires have. The do work on non vampire players though something you didn't know as per your post(but since you seem to think they don't that would put others players at a disadvantage for having to slot abilities to counter vampires specifically this one is a wash as far as I'm concerned sometimes you will deal extra damage sometimes you will not). They can however also have their cc portion negated by immovable but nobody ever runs that in pvp right? I mean why would they do that resistance to hard cc including knockdown yeah a majority of people who do well in pvp have never ever considered running this because no one ccs in this game as you have pointed out so clearly for us. As for the extra damage from these abilities I shall concede that point they do, do some extra damage. It is my personal opinion they do not do enough extra but we won't consider my personal opinions I will just stick to the things I know to be true of vampirism. Fire damage hits everyone for true damage due to bugged spell penetration of light armor/sharpened trait users if they fix this we shall then be able to consider it a disadvantage as of right now it is not. You accuse me of using other people arguments when all of these thoughts are my own, if others share them which it seems many do, that is because they are true and people notice them. So yes in conclusion to refute your points I stand by my post. You however just go on a tirade about ignorance when you failed to understand the situation. I will be finished debating you on this because we shall probably never see eye to eye on it and you lack the ability to keep it civil. And to.think we could have had a meaningful discussion about this but you ruined it. Congrats sir. Emperor is another issue all together that we could have also discussed calmly but all rational thought went out the window when I pointed out some issues with vampirism.

1. You said I am trying to sensationalize disadvantages? Are you serious? You actually said in your post that I quoted from :

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

In eso you don't have to suffer the disadvantages you just get the positives from it. That's why there is hate for vampires whether people realize that's why they hate it or not it is the reason. It would be like saying you could trade in 1 point of health for any other stat in the game weapon damage stamina crit what ever you want then giving the player an item or skill that negates 100% damage. Sensationalized for the purpose of helping you understand. So why not trade in all your health but 1 point when you know there will be no significant drawbacks?

In your own words you readily admit to sensationalizing some foolish irrelevant faulty correlation. I actually listed everything by name and pointed out the glaring weakness in your post and all of a sudden I am sensationalizing disadvantages? Your post had just finished trying to convince everyone HP regen was the only drawback to Vamp. Are you serious or just trolling?

2. I read what you wrote. I actually quoted you. If anyone has a comprehension issue it's you. You compared Feed to actual abilities, even referring to it as a 6th ability. Feed does NOT work in combat. I listed the stipulations for feed. Re-read it. Hardly advantageous and most vamps refuse to even bother with it. Nobody wants to wait over an hour to get back to stage 4. Also to even use the ability you need to be out of combat. Mentioning that it heals you is MOOT. Considering you are not in combat and already healing up. Wtf is your point? Stop trying to go in circles and avoid accountability.

3. Vampirism has exploits? Oh do share with us these exploits. Please share them. Funny I don't see any posts about them nor do I see anyone whining about it. Do you honestly believe this forum would not be flooded with tears if people were abusing a vampire exploit? Get real.

While we are at it, do tell me about mistform. Please also remind us that pre 1.2.4 Mistform was CC'able. Did you not know you could stun people in Mistform with Crushing Shock? Mistform was actually one of the worst abilities (post speed nerf) to use due to Crushing Shock (a spell almost every competent competitive pvper used, before the dk scale trend). Not only would you stun them, it would rip them out of it and make them vunerable to damage. Moreover you could CC mistform with Stampede, Encase/morphs, Bombard, etc. You really need to get your facts straight.

4. Fighter's Guild. I think you should go back to the game (or esohead at least) and read the abilities and passives. The CC and bonus damage does not work against non supernaturals. This means, Daedra, Undead, Vamp, Lycans, all get these extra bonuses against them. Please stop equivocating.

In fact you can literally '1 shot' a vamp or a lycan from stealth with Camo Hunter/Snipe/Weave/Ability. So please dispense with the nonsense.

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

It is my personal opinion they do not do enough extra but we won't consider my personal opinions I will just stick to the things I know to be true of vampirism.

In other words, you don't care about the facts, what you tell yourself is more important.
Regarding your response, you are either myopic or deliberately obtuse on this matter.

5. Fire Damage. Fire damage does NOT hit everyone for the same doing true damage. I have a dunmer who is capped on Fire Resist and has Boundless Storm (Lightning Form morph). I take considerably less fire damage than other players. In fact, outside of oil pots, fire damage does not phase me. I have no idea where you pulled this out of... but it is clearly not true.

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

You however just go on a tirade about ignorance when you failed to understand the situation. I will be finished debating you on this because we shall probably never see eye to eye on it and you lack the ability to keep it civil. And to.think we could have had a meaningful discussion about this but you ruined it. Congrats sir. Emperor is another issue all together that we could have also discussed calmly but all rational thought went out the window when I pointed out some issues with vampirism.

I failed to understand the situation because I pointed out that your posting was ignorant over vampirism? Your tantrum above left out a lot of true information that I shared. Just because you refuse to accept the facts does not mean I am failing to understand your situation. Oh believe me, I think we all understand what you are implying, hell you said it best when you admitted you care not for the facts, only what you tell yourself is true. I quoted you on that.

I find it strange you mention "rational thought" when you sit around equivocating and avoiding facts. How can someone have a meaningful discussion when you lock them away in your paradigm constructs and refuse to entertain what they say? While you may consider yourself sincere, on this topic you are sincerely wrong. More importantly (whether intentional or not) you are misleading everyone who reads this.

One thing is true about your response, we are not going to see eye to eye, particularly if you continue to be willfully myopic and obtuse (above quote). You want everyone to take your word when you show up with no evidence at all. Yet I entreat with evidence and you sweep it under the rug. No, this is not how intelligent discussion works.

Lastly, if you want to argue, at least post in proper format. Saying your wall of text is an eyesore is an understatement. It's actually painful to read and sift through. If you wish to be taken serious put a little more effort into your posts. Though I would rather not continue discussion with you, as I find it like trying to nail jell-o to a wall.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

GrimMauKin wrote: »

Will Monday's patch fix all the stealth issues then? I'm hoping that it'll fix the Shadowy Disguise bugs too.

Here's how we're looking currently:

Monday's patch will have a fix for Night's Silence, Concealed Weapons, and Shadow Cloak. The fixes for the Stealthy passive and Nightshade didn't make the patch for Monday, but we're pretty confident we can hotfix it next week after we complete the maintenance for the new patch. We'll let you know the exact day for the hotfix as soon as we know. Let us know how everything feels after all these fixes roll out.

Thank you for the updates

Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »

Yep pvp players were on zenimax the whole time for craglorn and upper craglorn. PvP players said he we don't have enough trials or dungeons. PvP players said we need a few more veteran levels to grind out so we can go back to pve. *pop* that was your head coming out of your...

I think you misread the context here, majority of changes to abilities where made with PvP combat in mind. This has nothing to do with PvP content being added, but simply everyone's build changing due to ZOS trying to make PvP balanced. I would hate for you to look like an ass again so I put key words in bold in case you were finding it difficult to understand previously.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

rwross wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ I know you mentioned the Nightshade set, but can you also confirm that you guys are working to fix the Night's Silence set as well. The 5+ piece bonus to sneak speak (not radius) is not working either.

Yes, the Night's Silence movement bonus isn't working either, but will be fixed in Monday's patch.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌
Hiya...can you please shed any light on what aspects of stealth are still non-functional and when you think the hot fix will go in this week. I think this will save a lot of churn in the forums :-)

thanks!!

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

rwross wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

rwross wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ I know you mentioned the Nightshade set, but can you also confirm that you guys are working to fix the Night's Silence set as well. The 5+ piece bonus to sneak speak (not radius) is not working either.

Yes, the Night's Silence movement bonus isn't working either, but will be fixed in Monday's patch.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌
Hiya...can you please shed any light on what aspects of stealth are still non-functional and when you think the hot fix will go in this week. I think this will save a lot of churn in the forums :-)

thanks!!

Yes, certainly. The hotfix will consist of the following:

• A fix for Stealthy, which is not currently reducing the detection radius
• A fix for Nightshade, where the 3-set bonus decreased stealth radius is not working

We are planning to push this hotfix tomorrow morning (Eastern time) on both megaservers.

Also, we have tested the medium armor passive internally, and it appears to be functioning properly. Once 1.4.4 is fully rolled out (at this point, just waiting for the EU maintenance window) and tomorrow's hotfix is complete, let us know if you're still seeing issues with stealth. Thank you!

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ -- Sounds good.

1. Will you be posting in this thread when the hot fix is complete or does that go somewhere else?

2. Got on briefly and was able to confirm that Night's Silence is working but could not confirm if the Concealed Weapon speed passive stacked with it. Do you know if it does or does not. If not, will that be fixed or is it by design. If by design, I'll trash the ability when I next respec, so please let us know :-)

3. I'll be happy to post back after the Hot Fix to confirm that Stealthy Racial has made difference.

Thanks again for the communication...

Has this hotfix happened yet?

Wow...the hot fix is taking longer than the...um...cold fix?

@Romikov‌ were you able to confirm that Night's Silence and Concealed Weapon stack? It was hard for me to tell if my toon's speed increased when I switched to the actions that had Concealed slotted.

Spectrasoul wrote: »

I know there is a lot of hate, some with good reason.. Let's look at the bigger picture though. Yes there are some things wrong, yes they need some desperate attention.

In general though I do believe things are moving in the right direction, I mean look at one month after release and compare that to now, I'm surprised I even continued subbing it was that bad.

Stamina builds are more than viable now, Medium armor is definitely an option. Whilst grinding Hircine's yesterday I got a lot of compliments and surprise that I was doing so much damage (More so than Pulsar / Fire Ring spammers) I can't speak for trials or anything which requires more skill than simply smashing a button over and over, but as I said.. It's moving in the right direction.

I have to say despite the lack of communication (Which is very common for any online game) I really do think the devs look at the forums and take note. I know it's a business at the end of the day but the people who make the game surely have to have some passion and want to do a good job and create an awesome game.

Point is, yes there are faults, nothing is perfect. In reality the game for Nightblades these days is a damned sight better than it was 2-3-4 months ago. At least let's give them some credit for that. For the record I can't imagine ever playing anything other than Nightblade, and I doubt I ever will.

The problem isn't that they are not making progress it's just their methods. They release these updates too hastily with numerous game breaking bugs. It's sloppy and the answer can't be to get the content out and then worry about fixing it after. The player base is frustrated at this continued mess they keep releasing. It honestly feels like they don't test these things before releasing them and what good are the new features if we cannot actually use them? I'm personally sick of always trying to find a work around due to the inferior quality of this game's testing. I spend so much time trying to troubleshoot this game rather than actually playing it that it get's to the point where I'd rather not even log on. At first it was just a minor inconvenience but it's really gotten to the point where it's just expected that each update is going to make the game more unplayable. They then spend weeks attempting to fix their sloppy coding only to introduce another update with more bugs and it's all the same again. This is an Elder Scrolls game and we really should be able to expect better. Let's face it, they released it too early and now we are paying for the console beta of this game.

Sneak_Thief wrote: »

I also want to say, I don't feel like I should have to give up the very class I have always played because I feel sub par. I want to be able to continue to enjoy this class, but after today I'm just not having fun with it. People are going to stop playing what they love and start playing what keeps them alive and that to me, means something is very wrong. I picked NB becuase they are supposed to be different, but how are we now different. We can turn invisible? Potions do that. We can siphon health? Anyone with a staff can do that? We can swing a sword? So really what do we have anymore?

Well, you guys are the most wanted trial class. What do we Templars have?

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ Should the launcher patch files or was it all server-side. I didn't see any files being updated after the hot-fix was complete...