Wait so arenas PvP is confirmed?

Gern_Verkheart · June 2014

badmojo wrote: »

I just want PvE arena like in Oblivion. I want to battle some Minotaur Lords while other players sit around and bet on how many I can defeat before falling. Maybe even add some quests around it, possibly a gladiator skill line.

I'd also love a PvP type arena for your faction, but the rewards are based on player wagering their own money. If you feel like you can beat me(or my group) in combat, we'll settle it in the arena, and put your money where your mouth is.

None of this, structured PVP arena nonsense with rewards and queues. It should be a social thing to help train our factions warriors.

This is a very RP approach to it. A lot of us are not RP'rs, and something like this doesn't really interest us that much.

Not every PvP'er likes massive zergfests, but this game has nothing for that player base. Why shouldn't it? And why shouldn't they be able to PvP in the manner that they enjoy and still get rewards for it?

Ser Lobo · June 2014

badmojo wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

Ashigaru wrote: »

....These are to be 3v3 pre formed or such arena, if they had an EQ style arena it would be nice but as a lot of others have stated i won't resub if this stuff comes in, if i wanted arena pvp i could go play wow or some other juvenile mentality populated mmo.

I enjoy open world pvp and with an arena system in there it would already detract from what we have now. If they had just taken a note from how DAoC did it with the tiered pvp areas it would have worked out a lot better.

How in the world would it detract form anything? Everyone who cries for them not to add arena seem to assume they will somehow force you to participate in the arena. If you don't enjoy it, don't participate in it, simple as that. I don't enjoy massive zergfests like what Cyrodiil is, so I don't participate in it.

I like small scale arena and battleground type PvP, but you don't hear me, nor people who share my opinion, crying for them to remove Cyrodiil from the game.

We understand that if we don't like it, we don't have to participate in it, and we can still enjoy the rest of the game.

I'm curious if someone like yourself would still play the arenas if they didn't give any rewards or xp? Is it something you would do just because the actual act of it is fun? Or would you rage about not getting the same rewards as people in Cyrodiil?

I would do it for fun. Course, I do Cyrodiil for fun, too, because all I ever spend my measly AP on is tents.

But I'm sure there are plenty who, the moment you made a 'for fun' arena system, would FLIP if it didn't offer same or better gear drops, etc, etc.

I love Arena's, but that type of player is probably the only reason I would side with those who are wholesale against them.

Blud · June 2014

Please don't kill Cyrodiil with this.

Seriously, the game seems to be moving away from AvA (the main reason I came was for a new DAoC -- I was wrong) and more toward PvE.

Basically, I want to see more focus on AvA. Put some dynamic events in. Give players more reasons to go there, etc.

What is the focus of this game? PvE or AvA, or we trying to do it all? Is there a focus? Is it questing? I don't know. Small scale instanced PvP will seriously leech Cyrodiil.

Who is the target audience for this game?

badmojo · June 2014

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

This is a very RP approach to it. A lot of us are not RP'rs, and something like this doesn't really interest us that much.

Not every PvP'er likes massive zergfests, but this game has nothing for that player base. Why shouldn't it? And why shouldn't they be able to PvP in the manner that they enjoy and still get rewards for it?

Because if you can get more XP(or loot) per hour in arenas than you can in Cyrodiil, that means a lot of people will flock to arenas and ignore Cyrodiil.

It'll be like a game of Battlefield where people ignore the large open maps in favor of the small close quarters maps, simply because they can get more kills per hour.

In short, you can't balance open world PVP with arena style PVP. So if you give rewards to the arena, you're making the decision for a lot of players. No matter what they prefer, they'll go to whatever gives the better rewards per hour.

SFBryan18 · June 2014

Sounds like fun.

Blud · June 2014

badmojo wrote: »

It'll be like a game of Battlefield where people ignore the large open maps in favor of the small close quarters maps, simply because they can get more kills per hour.

Exactly.

And wouldn't this appeal more to the console market?

I think I can see what's going on now.

seitekisaki · June 2014

So many assumptions. Where are the references and constructive criticism. Why all the crap? $:\$

Zxaxz · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

I just want PvE arena like in Oblivion. I want to battle some Minotaur Lords while other players sit around and bet on how many I can defeat before falling. Maybe even add some quests around it, possibly a gladiator skill line.

I'd also love a PvP type arena for your faction, but the rewards are based on player wagering their own money. If you feel like you can beat me(or my group) in combat, we'll settle it in the arena, and put your money where your mouth is.

None of this, structured PVP arena nonsense with rewards and queues. It should be a social thing to help train our factions warriors.

I agree with this completely. Keep it in your faction, don't give gear rewards or experience, and make the points earned based on your skill (timing your blocks, rolls, dodges, interrupts correctly and giving bonus points to heals, debuffs, buffs, etc over simple damage done).

Letting other players watch and wager would make it a HUGE social fest. And adding PvE content would also make it more enjoyable to the non-pvpers, with the same rewards.

IF you make it point based, then developers can balance the number of points earned, instead of having to focus on balancing the effectiveness of the ability.

That is the start of a cool system...maybe..

Erandhir · June 2014

People talking about Arenas or Bgs killing RvR, know nothing about pvp. Warhammer had both, i dont remember people complaining because the RvR was empty because everyone was playing BGS. Is all about options and choices, we need them.

TheVindelator · June 2014

Sorry for sounding a total troll but I'm happy about this.

Kingslayer · June 2014

So let me see if i understand this, You actually have an arena setup but this is not in the live version obviously?. Where is the logic in this? You are showing people a fallacy as Eso pvp is nothing like the small scale i have seen in the videos. Cyro consists of a big conga line making its way to its destination which rolls over the smaller number and the conga line continues. The population of cyrodiil shows it isn't for everyone.

Lkory · June 2014

Kingslayer wrote: »

So let me see if i understand this, You actually have an arena setup but this is not in the live version obviously?. Where is the logic in this? You are showing people a fallacy as Eso pvp is nothing like the small scale i have seen in the videos. Cyro consists of a big conga line making its way to its destination which rolls over the smaller number and the conga line continues. The population of cyrodiil shows it isn't for everyone.

In the state of the game right now what do you think arena will look like?

My answer is 3 unkillable DK's dropping standards one after the other, or 3 sorcs just destroying your group. Still think this would be fun?

Kingslayer · June 2014

Lkory wrote: »

Kingslayer wrote: »

So let me see if i understand this, You actually have an arena setup but this is not in the live version obviously?. Where is the logic in this? You are showing people a fallacy as Eso pvp is nothing like the small scale i have seen in the videos. Cyro consists of a big conga line making its way to its destination which rolls over the smaller number and the conga line continues. The population of cyrodiil shows it isn't for everyone.

In the state of the game right now what do you think arena will look like?

My answer is 3 unkillable DK's dropping standards one after the other, or 3 sorcs just destroying your group. Still think this would be fun?

Aoe will be nowhere near as important in an arena, Its not a big group you can aoe bomb down. Other classes will be more useful in these settings. Nightblades when fixed will rule here.

Lkory · June 2014

@Kingslayer

DK's are not only about aoe dps they are about survivability as well, Sorcs are raw dps single target or aoe.

NB's might be great for this but Templars, well they die easily or will sacrifice their mobility for survivability with an less than average dps.

Will seriously bring more nerfs and balance fixes that are not needed.

As i said in another thread its not about being OP it about showing other classes you are OP by shooting in /zone LFM DK/Sorc for trials...the same will happen with small scale arena.

Kingslayer · June 2014

Lkory wrote: »

@Kingslayer

DK's are not about aoe dps they are about survivability, Sorcs are raw dps.

NB's might be great for this but Templars, well they die easily or will sacrifice their mobility for survivability with an less than average dps.

Will seriously bring more nerfs and balance fixes that are not needed.

As i said in another thread its not about being OP it about showing other classes you are OP by shooting in /zone LFM DK/Sorc for trials...the same will happen with small scale arena.

And going on your premise the underpowered classes will get fixed much sooner then. Templars are burst healers obviously they will never be top dps class just not going to happen unless a healing tree capable of burst comes out for all classes.

Lkory · June 2014

Kingslayer wrote: »

Lkory wrote: »

@Kingslayer

DK's are not about aoe dps they are about survivability, Sorcs are raw dps.

NB's might be great for this but Templars, well they die easily or will sacrifice their mobility for survivability with an less than average dps.

Will seriously bring more nerfs and balance fixes that are not needed.

As i said in another thread its not about being OP it about showing other classes you are OP by shooting in /zone LFM DK/Sorc for trials...the same will happen with small scale arena.

And going on your premise the underpowered classes will get fixed much sooner then. Templars are burst healers obviously they will never be top dps class just not going to happen unless a healing tree capable of burst comes out for all classes.

Much faster to nerf to please the masses, then you end up like wow where most class trees are useless cause they are classified bad by other players....dual wield shaman sucks? mmmhmmm play one!

To get back to subject, i am a templar healer and i use 2 skills from the class healing tree (sometimes). They are slow casting or channeling for the most part and cost more than the resto staff skills for the same result. Most of the ones i still use, other than the ultimate for trials, are just support skill that i equip for specific situation to make em easier but they are not required.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Kingslayer wrote: »

Lkory wrote: »

@Kingslayer

DK's are not about aoe dps they are about survivability, Sorcs are raw dps.

NB's might be great for this but Templars, well they die easily or will sacrifice their mobility for survivability with an less than average dps.

Will seriously bring more nerfs and balance fixes that are not needed.

As i said in another thread its not about being OP it about showing other classes you are OP by shooting in /zone LFM DK/Sorc for trials...the same will happen with small scale arena.

And going on your premise the underpowered classes will get fixed much sooner then. Templars are burst healers obviously they will never be top dps class just not going to happen unless a healing tree capable of burst comes out for all classes.

This mindset is where it gets jumbled. While it's certain that only one class can be the TOP of anything, there is nothing saying that Templars shouldn't have the capability of being high dps, high burst healing or high tank.

That is traditional class mindset, where each class fits a peg in the holy trinity. But in ESO, I think it's important that each class can fit any peg in the holy trinity.

That means healing lines for the other three classes (though NB does have some healing function), and survivability for NB and Sorcs. And while I support getting the current lines bug-free first, i also am firmly behind adding new lines to compensate for class function imbalances.

This also means that it's possible templar may need their current abilities buffed. I don't know how bad or good they really are, though, as my templar and me don't get along to well. I personally recognize the difference between a broken class, and bad player sync.

Kingslayer · June 2014

Attention Zenimax: Stamina builds don't hold up to magicka builds, and this is causing most of your class imbalance. It makes melee weapons and bows weaker than staves and class abilities. It makes medium and heavy armor less desirable than light armor. Fix this imbalance, and you'll address most of your balance issues.

I think your signature says it all with regards to balancing what I've been saying all along Cyrodiil is dead. And was a bad idea just releasing with that for pvp in the first place.

Jahoel · June 2014

Keverettusps · June 2014

Arenas would be awesome if we can set wagers on them I WANT TO GAMBLE! It ain't Elder Scrolls with out an Arena tournament just saying. Host one once a week top 1000 arena fighters get Arena champion title and passives for a week. Would be cool.

Lkory · June 2014

You should all read this: http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/6773-Five-Years-of-Warcraft-Speaking-With-Blizzards-Rob-Pardo

There are 3 pages btw so might have to read more than a few words to get to the PVP part.

Ezareth · June 2014

Necronomicon wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Any one have a link?

So they are just going to kill cyrodil pvp? F2p this game will be.

News flash, cyrodil pvp is already dead.

This.

PVP died the moment Zenimax introduced AOE Caps.

Cyrodiil is now ZvZ not PvP. Whoever has the most Zerg wins. Stand in a giant ball of garbage, spam AOE heals (Which aren't capped) and cap flags without bothering to fight players since they can't kill you and more bodies = faster caps.

All you need is a subscription and a pulse to "PVP" in Cyrodiil right now.

drktksnub18_ESO · June 2014

badmojo wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

This is a very RP approach to it. A lot of us are not RP'rs, and something like this doesn't really interest us that much.

Not every PvP'er likes massive zergfests, but this game has nothing for that player base. Why shouldn't it? And why shouldn't they be able to PvP in the manner that they enjoy and still get rewards for it?

Because if you can get more XP(or loot) per hour in arenas than you can in Cyrodiil, that means a lot of people will flock to arenas and ignore Cyrodiil.

It'll be like a game of Battlefield where people ignore the large open maps in favor of the small close quarters maps, simply because they can get more kills per hour.

In short, you can't balance open world PVP with arena style PVP. So if you give rewards to the arena, you're making the decision for a lot of players. No matter what they prefer, they'll go to whatever gives the better rewards per hour.

0 rewards. play arenas for fun? dang that was hard..

Lkory · June 2014

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Necronomicon wrote: »

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Any one have a link?

So they are just going to kill cyrodil pvp? F2p this game will be.

News flash, cyrodil pvp is already dead.

This.

PVP died the moment Zenimax introduced AOE Caps.

Cyrodiil is now ZvZ not PvP. Whoever has the most Zerg wins. Stand in a giant ball of garbage, spam AOE heals (Which aren't capped) and cap flags without bothering to fight players since they can't kill you and more bodies = faster caps.

All you need is a subscription and a pulse to "PVP" in Cyrodiil right now.

you dont need to win, just have fun? Oh sorry did your epeen took a hit?

You can also go on a deserted campaign and win by default if that helps? Take the short bus to your enjoyment, its there just waiting for you and your group.

EDIT: Cyrodil is not dead...yes requires some thinking and understanding how a small force can beat a bigger one... example... Have a Sorc use negate on a bunch of idiots spamming pulse and enjoy ripping their faces off with a stamina build.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

Kingslayer wrote: »

Attention Zenimax: Stamina builds don't hold up to magicka builds, and this is causing most of your class imbalance. It makes melee weapons and bows weaker than staves and class abilities. It makes medium and heavy armor less desirable than light armor. Fix this imbalance, and you'll address most of your balance issues.

I think your signature says it all with regards to balancing what I've been saying all along Cyrodiil is dead. And was a bad idea just releasing with that for pvp in the first place.

I disagree, though. I'm more in support of making Cyrodiil more important and impactful on the lives of everyone.

Random NPC enemy spawns and invasions into regular PvE zones when your campaign is losing. Prices increase from NPC vendors. Threat of war and all that. NPC's talk about it more, ask the player constantly if he's going to fight, etc, etc.

Problem with cyrodiil is NOT balance. It's the fact that it impacts nothing, not even in microcosm.

Lkory · June 2014

ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

Kingslayer wrote: »

Attention Zenimax: Stamina builds don't hold up to magicka builds, and this is causing most of your class imbalance. It makes melee weapons and bows weaker than staves and class abilities. It makes medium and heavy armor less desirable than light armor. Fix this imbalance, and you'll address most of your balance issues.

I think your signature says it all with regards to balancing what I've been saying all along Cyrodiil is dead. And was a bad idea just releasing with that for pvp in the first place.

Problem with cyrodiil is NOT balance. It's the fact that it impacts nothing, not even in microcosm.

You guys need to learn to have fun. Run with an organized group using TS/vent/mumble/whatever and destroy a larger force, thats where the fun is! A group of 20 holding a fort for 30 mins to 1hour. That is where the adrenaline rush is...that why i pvp....rewards are nice but worthles compared to the adrenaline.

Most fun i had is at Sejanus outpost, for about 3hour with a 20 player group and a few straggler (maybe another 20) against a large dominion force that kept wanting more.No forward camp to respawn or running back, we were circled after the first 30 mins.

That is why pvp is addicting. its not winning a 3vs3 with a bunch of OP classes that will surely win if they are noy pitted against the same classes with better gear and/or coordination.

Ser Lobo · June 2014

I do have fun in Cyrodiil. But it's fleeting, and then I go do other things. Because I'm not earning anything I want with AP, nothing we capture is held longer than the next zerg, I've yet to have to defend anything, and when I do find enemies, it's either bots, a pair of questers, or the ZEERRRRGGGG!!!

Not to mention the commute to the fight is longer than my drive to work. Honestly, that's the real part that kills it for me, cause I don't have long to play. Personal issue, not the game's fault. I'm glad Cyrodiil is so large. It just, sadly, doesn't suit me.

But I damn sure don't need rewards to play. they are nice incentive, but not the definition of my fun.

Whether it's a 3v3 or 300v300, I play both and enjoy both.

Gern_Verkheart · June 2014

badmojo wrote: »

Gern_Verkheart wrote: »

This is a very RP approach to it. A lot of us are not RP'rs, and something like this doesn't really interest us that much.

Not every PvP'er likes massive zergfests, but this game has nothing for that player base. Why shouldn't it? And why shouldn't they be able to PvP in the manner that they enjoy and still get rewards for it?

Because if you can get more XP(or loot) per hour in arenas than you can in Cyrodiil, that means a lot of people will flock to arenas and ignore Cyrodiil.

It'll be like a game of Battlefield where people ignore the large open maps in favor of the small close quarters maps, simply because they can get more kills per hour.

In short, you can't balance open world PVP with arena style PVP. So if you give rewards to the arena, you're making the decision for a lot of players. No matter what they prefer, they'll go to whatever gives the better rewards per hour.

I disagree, the majority of people who would be into this are not even participating in Cyrodiil, like myself. So you wouldn't really be draining any people form Cyrodiil.

Also, why make it give zero rewards? or Even as much rewards as Cyrodiil? Seems like it's just common sense to make the matches give the same amount of rewards per hour as you would get in Cyrodiil.

Zxaxz · June 2014

Kingslayer wrote: »

So let me see if i understand this, You actually have an arena setup but this is not in the live version obviously?. Where is the logic in this? You are showing people a fallacy as Eso pvp is nothing like the small scale i have seen in the videos. Cyro consists of a big conga line making its way to its destination which rolls over the smaller number and the conga line continues. The population of cyrodiil shows it isn't for everyone.

The short answer is, NO.

All they had a was a way to group a few people together and let them fight, Yes.

They don't have the Characters balanced to 3v3 - 5v5 w/e. They don't have maps, or game objectives modes. They have no scoring system, ranking, healing/buff counter. Point system, Rank system, PvP Gear; No math algorithms to calculate the hundreds of thousands of scoring and data collection variables needed.
Not from the E3 example.

The long answer is still, No.

Hilgara · June 2014

Don't like it, don't play it....simples