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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Auction house is a must!
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p_tsakirisb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO to AH.
We do not need it. It will lead to manipulation and bots buying cheap and selling high almost instantly an item goes on the market. Happened everywhere the AH was used.
Current guild trading works very well, and I have items sold all the time at reasonable prices.
As for Zone WTS, is for NOOBS and bot imho.
Because only those 60-70 people on the current zone instance going to read the message. (same goes for group finding).
Not the other thousands that are on various instances of the same zone.
(hence the group tool).
2 -
There are two sides to this issue and I can see merit in both...
Some claim at 4 guilds that's a potential of 2000 traders - true, but only if they are all actively trading and as they level out of ranges - well after a while you are going to have 4 guilds worth of people doing high-end stuff only.
I do agree with the idea of NOT having a Server-Wide AH* - at the most it should be faction only.
While certain items are useful regardless of one's level (i.e. trait and racial stones) - I would think a better option would be a single 'Store' in the main city of each zone (i.e.. Glenumbra, Auridon, Grahtwood, etc.) and is only accessible by going to that store. This would/could possibly help make each store more in-line with what would be found/needed in that zone.
Regardless of what is decided on this issue, what they MUST (Should) do is fix the current store system such as More Search/Filter options:
- Motifs
- Recipes
- Maps
- Foods - which is separate from Ingredients
- Potions - which is separate from Alchemy Ingredients
- Trait Materials
- Racial Materials
- Improvement Materials
- Enchantment Materials - Runes ONLY (not glyphs)
- Trait Search - search for items based on their trait.
- PLEASE - Materials that do NOT include armor and weapons (or any of the above) - so tired of looking for a particular item for say blacksmithing, but have to scroll thru hundreds of items not even related to the craft let alone armor and weapons which should show up in a 'Materials' search in the first place
A Key Word search would be a huge benefit as well.
*Auction House - are we talking a place to 'Bid' on stuff or simply sell? If 'Auction' in the traditional sense, then yeah, I'm against that idea as well, but a plain store where the price posted is what the seller wants - no bidding necessary - THAT is the way to go, but again, Zone- or at most Faction-wide OnlyAaelefein, a Veteran Templar of the 14th Level seeking to complete his Master Crafter Certification but still needs to finish exploring Craglorn in order to acquire all the knowledge pertaining to the Nirnhoned Trait.0 -
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Censorious wrote: »Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Well , what this system forced me into is 1 guild i care about and 4 guilds i keep on MUTE.
I dont care even one bit about ANYTHING they have to say , but i still stay inside the guild just because i want their AH.
It is like i have 2000 people in a new smaller zone chat i can ignore like his big brother hehe.
Well, that is kinda the idea.
I can't be bothered with guilds normally (except a PvP guild) but in this game it doesn't matter. You just join one and then ignore it except for the shop.
And nobody minds - that's the beauty.
The tie-in to the PvP keep is a masterly idea. I hope it works out. It gives us a real reason to fight.
I love my trade guilds! Tamriel Elite!
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black-gryphonb14_ESO wrote: »- *Auction House - are we talking a place to 'Bid' on stuff or simply sell? If 'Auction' in the traditional sense, then yeah, I'm against that idea as well, but a plain store where the price posted is what the seller wants - no bidding necessary - THAT is the way to go, but again, Zone- or at most Faction-wide Only
I'm not that interested in bidding for stuff so your idea of a plain store would, in my opinion, be an ideal solution for the benefit of those who don't want to join multiple trading guilds just to buy something. It would not detract from the trading guilds as they can still function but their members would also have another outlet for their goods especially if their trading guild(s) has become stagnant due to inactive members.
With regard to gold sellers why is it assumed they haven't joined the various trading guilds and are selling their stuff? Unlike normal guilds the ESO version needs to have a large membership in order for trade to appear viable but how many guild leaders know their members as individuals and thus, in this anonymity, perhaps gold sellers are happily trading.
I also like the idea of restricting such a store by faction as a natural way of keeping such a trading post small.0 -
store
[stawr, stohr]
noun
1.an establishment where merchandise is sold, usually on a retail basis.
2.a grocery: We need bread and milk from the store.
3.a stall, room, floor, or building housing or suitable for housing a retail business.
4.a supply or stock of something, especially one for future use.
5.stores, supplies of food, clothing, or other requisites, as for a household, inn, or naval or military forces.
key word : RETAIL. 100% of the population of Tamriel should be able to visit my store should they choose to.0 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭It's hard to say if guild stores work or not with the current search system. Even if there was an AH it would not work with the current search functions.
However, guild stores go against what guilds traditionally are in MMO's, which is friends grouping up.
I think they should create cartels or trade unions with more people (2000) and keep them separate from guilds, but still stick to the principles of what they have tried to do.2 -
Hamfast✭✭✭✭✭cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote: »store
[stawr, stohr]
noun
1.an establishment where merchandise is sold, usually on a retail basis.
2.a grocery: We need bread and milk from the store.
3.a stall, room, floor, or building housing or suitable for housing a retail business.
4.a supply or stock of something, especially one for future use.
5.stores, supplies of food, clothing, or other requisites, as for a household, inn, or naval or military forces.
key word : RETAIL. 100% of the population of Tamriel should be able to visit my store should they choose to.
2 points...
First - Just because a Store is a Retail Store does not mean 100% of the population can get to it
Second -"cisadanepajsuxrwb17_ESO wrote:1.an establishment where merchandise is sold, usually on a retail basis.
the word "usually" means that it need not be retail to still be a store.
I will go back to calling it a Consignment Shop, if it's limited by faction or not, I don't care, it seems to me that it may be easier to modify the "Guild Shop" code to make the consignment Shop (everyone has access) then to come up with new code that limited the shop to each faction.Of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most...0 -
Hawke✭✭✭✭Well, it has been well over a month since launch, and I for one think the guild stores are fine. A global auction house would just make things more complicated.
How would a global auction house make things more complicated?
If anything, it would simply the process rather than having to sift through numerous and different guilds stores. That's one of the reasons auction houses are so effective. They streamline the economy and make it easy to buy/sell with others on a mass scale.
And increase the threat of Gold Sellers by super inflating the economy, plus who knows what other pain in the butt issues that could come about by having a global auction house.
I do agree with the fact that ZOS needs to kick themselves in the ass and put in proper search functions and sorting into the guild auction page, that would help out a lot of people's issues.
But the world has not ended yet, no global auction house and the game still marches onward.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@AinGeal Really? Is this why you can walk in to a store and find an item for $150 and then drive to WalMart and find same item for $100? Can you imagine if there was a real life Auction House where all consumers could visit and see product prices by seller? Who wins that battle? Exactly why Mom and Pop shops hate Walmarts coming to their towns.
We already have a real life Auction House. It's called the internet. It works great and I use it to buy things all the time.
And the Walmart analogy really has no place in this debate. Because the main reason this corporation is able to sell so cheaply and still profit is because its goods are manufactured overseas in countries like China to reduce production cost. Which isn't a factor here.
Oh it's not a factor here? The fact that Chinese sweat shops are set up with 100s of computers to pay workers like 5 cents an hour to farm gold 12 hours a day must be a myth? These companies are able to profit because of the value of the American Dollar to them, and the fact they can pay literally pennies to mass produce gold/farming mats. So basically an in game auction house is the equivalent of the real world WalMart. I mentioned in an older thread I actually interviewed and spoke with a Chinese Gold Farmer years ago. It was a tear jerking story actually.
Walmart isn't able to dominate the local competition here in the States because of Chinese sweat shops. If that was the case all the local stores would have to do is open up their own sweat shops to compete. But they can't. Because there are laws against that kind of activity here.
So corporations produce overseas where these laws do not exist. And this allows them to play by a different set of rules than their local competitors.
This is why your analogy and argument are inaccurate. Because auction houses do not create special rules for certain players that allow them to compete more effectively than others. It's merely a tool that facilitates trade between players by giving them convenient access to a broad market.Edited by Jeremy on June 6, 2014 10:31AM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why does sharing my positive experiences with the auction house on Guild Wars 2 make me a troll?
Also: many of the most successful MMORPGs have used auction houses as a basis for their player-driven economy. So to claim if this game had one it would be an epic failure as a result doesn't make any sense.
Why don't we start here...name the successful MMO of which you speak that that has a) An Auction House and b) a player driver economy? I hope you are not referring to WoW...because that is absolutely a loot-centric MMO and not a player centered economy.
Just to clear up any misunderstandings. When I said player-driven economy I meant only to reference trade that happens between players rather NPC vendors.
Final Fantasy 11, Final Fantasy 14, Aion, Lord of the Rings Online, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2, SWTOR: all MMORPGs that had auction houses. All of these games had an economy I was able to buy/sell effectively in. Unlike this game.Edited by Jeremy on June 6, 2014 10:43AM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That would be a good way to clean up the spam in zone chat I agree. But I hate trade spam economies. Always have. I couldn't stand them on Diablo 2 or Path of Exile. So I would prefer this game not go in that direction.
When I sit down to play a game, the last thing I want to do is read spam for hours trying to find a good deal on some virtual item I want to buy. I just don't enjoy that kind of thing at all.
Again your arguments are to suit your play style and not in the best intention of the game's economy. You've made that clear several times.
Yes the current guild store UI is terrible and needs fixing. But the answer is not an Auction House. I would be in favor of a trade zone or the ability to set up shop (EQ Bazaar or SWG-like).
You are wrong about your AH/Bot theory. Completely, 100% wrong. You mentioned an AH would make it easy to identify a bot and then ban. What's to stop me from buying all the cotton on the Auction House and then re-listing for a higher price? I guess then people would see my name as the seller spammed all over the AH and think I am a bot?
The problem with Auction Houses as it pertains to gold farmers, that a lot of people fail to properly explain in this thread is that it provides a means to unload inventory and deflate the real life value of the game's gold currency because as things become more abundant they lose value. This is very important in games where US players are playing on the same server as foreign players. Thank Zenimax this game has the current gold sinks it has, or else we would have seen a much more drastic rate of deflation by now.
Basically how this works, as the CGF (Chinese Gold Farmers) bring enormous amounts of gold into the economy it's value will start to decrease. At launch 10$ would buy you X amount of gold and then two months later 10$ would buy you X*2 amount of gold. Simple illustration.
When you add an auction house in to the mix, you now have Chinese farmers setting the prices on trade goods (Cotton, metals, wood, etc) because they can literally undercut ANY other player. They have the resources (the work force) to bring in an unlimited supply of materials to the game whereas you and I are not playing around the clock doing nothing all day but farming materials.
This is NOT AS detrimental in games like Warcraft where the best gear is Bind on pickup and comes from Raiding. In that type of game, most mats are only used to grind out professions, or make consumables like flasks, foods, and potions. This is an example of a loot centric economy where the best items are looted instead of crafted.
As stated ion my previous post, this is not the case with ESO. The best items will be player crafted, or upgraded by players to legendary status in the event your epic boss loot contains a stat players cannot craft. In a player-centric or craft-centric MMO you really don't want an auction house. As bad as this sounds, the only real solution to this would be to ban the Chinese IPs from American servers. In a real life example, @Jeremy, it's really not fair just like WalMart using oversea production to undercut American competition.
If there was a minimum wage in China, that reflected the minimum wage we have in the US....you would absolutely see a huge decrease and possibly reduce the CGF to an endangered species.
These sweatshops exist over there, and Chinese newspaper will sport tons of jobs looking for people to farm gold in MMOs. Warehouses set up with 100s of computers, with people making 5 cents an hour to farm mats and gold 12 on 12 hour shifts. Think of how much gold that brings in to the game, and think about how an Auction House in a player-centric economy would just be the enabler.
I skimmed this and will respond generally since you are basically re-applying the argument that auction houses allow bots to control the economy.
First: I just want to point out auction houses do not create gold farmers and bots. They will be a problem with or without one. And this game proves it.
Second: A normal player would not sit there 24/7 and continuously buy out the competition to inflate the market. They would almost have to be a bot or a gold buyer to successfully do this. Especially on a large server-wide auction house with so many players competing with one another.
So I'm not wrong when I say it would help highlight suspicious activity and make it easier to investigate.
But in the end this is all just moot speculation anyway. Because I can easily prove to you auction houses lead to a competitive market place that drives prices downward. Not up. Just go play any of those games I listed in my previous post and you will see that to be the case.
So you can continue to claim auction houses cause bots to inflate the market and make everyone pay higher prices. But they don't.Edited by Jeremy on June 6, 2014 11:17AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »NO to AH.
We do not need it. It will lead to manipulation and bots buying cheap and selling high almost instantly an item goes on the market. Happened everywhere the AH was used.
Give me one example (besides Diable3 because I never played it) that has an auction house controlled by bots that are extorting the server into paying them high prices.
Edited by Jeremy on June 6, 2014 11:24AM2 -
I pretty much ignore my ah guild's and turn chat off they only serve a purpose of me selling my goods i don't want friends there i just want to sell
When people leave and these guilds become inactive and my market and all other peoples market disapears the idea of ah guilds will fall flat on its face because it can only get worse and worse and worse
Id rather access to the whole active community rather than having to manage my guilds and in the end struggle to find a good market as its based on other people continuing there sub with this game1 -
Hawke✭✭✭✭Every game with an global auction house is subject to the "buy low, sell high".
Some players make a career out of it.
The problem is... when a player is paying 100,000 gold for a level 10 item, for his new character. Exageration, yes, but hopefully that drives the point home. With multiple markets, you can shop around for a better deal.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, it has been well over a month since launch, and I for one think the guild stores are fine. A global auction house would just make things more complicated.
How would a global auction house make things more complicated?
If anything, it would simply the process rather than having to sift through numerous and different guilds stores. That's one of the reasons auction houses are so effective. They streamline the economy and make it easy to buy/sell with others on a mass scale.
And increase the threat of Gold Sellers by super inflating the economy, plus who knows what other pain in the butt issues that could come about by having a global auction house.
I do agree with the fact that ZOS needs to kick themselves in the ass and put in proper search functions and sorting into the guild auction page, that would help out a lot of people's issues.
But the world has not ended yet, no global auction house and the game still marches onward.
The real pain in the butt issues come about because this game doesn't have an auction house.
And the only issues not having one is preventing are the make-believe ones. Such as this fantasy that auction houses cause prices to skyrocket.Edited by Jeremy on June 6, 2014 11:45AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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No, its' a fantasy. Give me one example (besides D3) of a game that has an auction house controlled by bots and forcing everyone to pay skyrocketed prices.
I'll go download the game right now and take a look to see if you are correct.Edited by Jeremy on June 6, 2014 11:49AM0 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Every game with an global auction house is subject to the "buy low, sell high".
Some players make a career out of it.
The problem is... when a player is paying 100,000 gold for a level 10 item, for his new character. Exageration, yes, but hopefully that drives the point home. With multiple markets, you can shop around for a better deal.
There is nothing wrong with buying low and selling high. You can do that now, without an auction house.
And the reason lower level items tend to become over-priced is because as a game ages there is little to no demand for these items. That is what makes them expensive. It isn't because of bots controlling the economy or people buying low and selling high.Edited by Jeremy on June 6, 2014 12:37PM0 -
SoulScream✭✭✭✭✭I am a member of several trading guilds but do not find them very useful. I end up buying and selling almost everything in zone chat. I think some type of AH other than these guild ones would be better, for me anyways.2 -
seaef✭✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »We do need a trade channel.
Show me one game where a trade channel is only used as a trade channel.
It will be one more channel to turn off due to the spam from attention-hungry children and therefore will quickly become useless."The Illuminati are very achievement focused. It's like Xbox - only everything is hardcore."
- Kirsten Geary0 -
Orizuru✭✭✭i personally don't think an ah would benefit anyone, the guild trade is just the right balance, but I would support a trade channel for individuals that are new and not yet in or have a guild. the trade in zone cant be helped as they are mostly ppl that are not in guilds yet and want to trade.
Even if the game had a trade channel and an AH, there would still be people shouting in public chat channels to sell.
The reasons people use public channels to do this are far too varied to expect them to stop simply because there are other tools available. Some players feel they can reach a broader market in chat than an AH provides because the only way someone sees their items in the AH is if they visit the AH. And while a trade channel might be more appropriate for this, if zone chat has more people monitoring it than the trade channel, then the players are going to use zone chat when they want to shout about the items they have for sale. There are also players who would use public channels to advertise the items they have listed in an AH if one existed.
I don't think it's possible to stop people from trying to sell goods in zone chat without taking extreme measures that ultimately would be much worse for the game then zone chat spam. I've seen other MMOs try to curb this behavior and the only method I've seen that even remotely works was to make them fear the penalty pyramid/ban-hammer, and this will just push people away from the game both voluntarily and involuntarily.Edited by Orizuru on June 6, 2014 12:52PM0 -
Hawke✭✭✭✭
No, its' a fantasy. Give me one example (besides D3) of a game that has an auction house controlled by bots and forcing everyone to pay skyrocketed prices.
I'll go download the game right now and take a look to see if you are correct.
First off, yall need to get off of the "bot controlled market' because bots are not the direct reason for the global auction house to spin out of control. The gold they sell to players, then those players buy whatever for much higher than a "normal" player would, thus driving the prices upward.
Buying/selling on the auction is cool, I have nothing against that, as I stated, players make a living off of that.
As far as games that have issues with a global auction house, any that have a global auction house.....
One game I enjoy because there is no economy to worry about is Marvel Heroes. There is no trading, so there are no bots in the game. Well maybe except the powerlevel kinds... but still.0 -
alphawolph✭✭✭Every game with an global auction house is subject to the "buy low, sell high".
Some players make a career out of it.
The problem is... when a player is paying 100,000 gold for a level 10 item, for his new character. Exageration, yes, but hopefully that drives the point home. With multiple markets, you can shop around for a better deal.
But this situation helps the new player. Instead of buying level 10 gear he should be selling his drops and making bank.
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Khandi✭✭✭2 months later this is is being argued, even on these dead forums.One should always be in love. That is the reason one should never marry.
~Oscar Wilde1 -
Orizuru✭✭✭
I would say a level 10 player should be vendoring or deconstructing or researching the vast majority of his drops.alphawolph wrote: »Every game with an global auction house is subject to the "buy low, sell high".
Some players make a career out of it.
The problem is... when a player is paying 100,000 gold for a level 10 item, for his new character. Exageration, yes, but hopefully that drives the point home. With multiple markets, you can shop around for a better deal.
But this situation helps the new player. Instead of buying level 10 gear he should be selling his drops and making bank.
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Asawasa✭✭✭2 months later this is is being argued, even on these dead forums.
yeah what is the deal? guild stores totally stopped the gold sellers and botters. why is there anymore discussion about auction houses?
it's not like they are superior in every way to guild stores by allowing you the most variety and selection to all tradeable goods in the game.3 -
Hawke✭✭✭✭
Not totally stopped, but greatly helped the two servers by not having an over inflated economy so early in the game's life. A year from now is different, but for now, yeah I think the decentralized economy is working out.
Plus, the only real need for gold is to buy a new horse and respecs. Maybe repair bills on armor when you are VR 1 or so when you find your set of armor...2
This discussion has been closed.