Sendarya wrote: »

Stop straw manning and reply to the real argument I presented. Do you really feel that unlimited crafting and unlimited space together are a good idea in an MMO?
To answer your question about why it is a bad idea, it is because if everyone can easily be 100% self sufficient, it degrades the in game economy. No need for players to trade, or buy and sell from each other. Anything you need you can easily make yourself. Then why even play an mmo? Just play an es game where you have unlimited storage... oh wait, they impose weight restrictions too. Aren't we all glad they don't have that?

There are very good reasons why MMO's tend to restrict crafting in some way. I just laid out the most obvious one.

Also, are there any mmo's that have crafting as an important feature that actually do allow you to actively practice all crafts with massive or unlimited inventory? If so, I am curious to hear which those would be, as I am not aware of any.

I'm only going to remark about this because Sendarya has, in fact, produced a decent critique that should stand as an opposing point to my own. While I don't agree, it should still be considered as the singular well-reasoned Con argument, in my opinion, presented so far. I just have a couple of points to say concerning your dissension.

• I wouldn't call crafting in ESO unlimited, necessarily. It is limited by skill points and materials - for example, as a VR5, I still only use one skill-line of armor and one type of weapon in order to obtain the crafting skills. I can't go around crafting amazing armor and weapons all the time, because the cost of these improvement materials is enormous for a single item.
• Crafting should be looked at from a perspective of character, not account. This goes back to an earlier comment I made - one character should at least be able to handle 2 crafts, I think. If this was the case then I would need 3 mules instead of 6, and I'd be OK with that.
• People are going to do it anyway. I don't think that forcing them into a never-ending tedium of sorting, storing and arranging is the best way to handle the consequences for those whom choose to take on all the crafts.
• You still need other people as a crafter in all 6 professions. The deconstruction experience makes this obvious, but the rare materials are often less abundant than you would need.

Let's stay on track here. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're implicitly wrong.

ChocolateJ wrote: »

Bank with infinite crafting storage sounds nice. Cause there's a lot of crap to hang onto for crafting, especially if you do provisioning. I still haven't found the recipe that uses potatos and garlic.

To use potato you also need tomato, which comes from 2+ hirelings only. I think the only recipes that will call for those will be purples.

So, basically potato isn't worth keeping, ever. If you manage to get a couple tomatos, you can easily loot a couple potatos in about a minute.

there is more than enough room for everything i need.

Blackwidow wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Going out and slaying countless hordes of bad guys, picking up all their dropped gear, and never having your bag fill up would just be too immersion breaking for me

This is about banks, not bags.

I agree unlimited bag space would feel too unreal.

But, the same still applies. Having unlimited bank storage in a small little building that is filled with about 20 others who also have unlimited storage...don't even get me started on the fact that things I put into storage in Daggerfall are available in Sentinel.

Holy what, the inventory in this game...I spent more game time wrangling with inventory than I do actually questing. Or petty much -everything- else.

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

How many slots do you think is enough? We already get more slots than every other game out there.

I know others have hit this, but I can't let it go. Off the top of my head?

TSW, Rift, PSU, PSO, WoW. Let's not forget games like Rift, TSW or WoW offer complete, full banks per character, giving you 10, 8, and 11 complete banks, respectively, across the three games. Some games, like Rift and TSW, also let you create your own guilds, giving you quick access to a guild bank.

PSU also gave you hundreds of bank spaces per character (I believe it capped at 500), and had account-based storage too (60-100 spaces, IIRC; it's been a while), so with four characters, you had literally more than two thousand spaces.

Allyah wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Going out and slaying countless hordes of bad guys, picking up all their dropped gear, and never having your bag fill up would just be too immersion breaking for me

This is about banks, not bags.

I agree unlimited bag space would feel too unreal.

Wouldn't unlimited bank space be just as unreal? Especially when that bank is
holding items, not just money.

First, let's not start going down the unlimited bank space road, because nobody is asking for that.

Second, no.

You don't know how deep the bank vault goes down into the earth. It's not like you are storing cars in there.

don't even get me started on the fact that things I put into storage in Daggerfall are available in Sentinel.

Because we can't mail stuff in the game? Oh, wait we can.

If we can, so can banks.

First of all, corn flower is an alchemy reagent not a provisioning ingredient. And I thought I made it clear that I wanted a more realistic inventory system, so a corn flower taking up the same space as a weapon is not something I enjoy. I had hoped they went the same route as the other past ES games by using weight, I was surprised & disappointed when I found out they didn't.

I don't consider giving yourself unlimited inventory as playing in an immersive fashion. In real life you can't just collect firewood all day long without returning to your campsite to drop it off. The same should be true in games. The act of having to deal with being overloaded, despite being boring, is an important part of the immersion process. It would be like being able to fish anywhere in the game, simply turning bait into fish/loot isn't the process, rather finding a place with fish, then pulling out your pole and casting into the water is the process.

I'm not sure about the PC version, but I know the xbox version of Oblivion & I believe Skyrim also, didn't have unlimited storage in your house, eventually items you put in the boxes would just disappear. That might have been patched at some point. But, even still, those are single player sandbox games, this is an MMO, the same rules can't really apply. You can also mod the other ES games to suit your idea of perfect, so pointing to unlimited storage in vanilla skyrim isn't helping your argument in my eyes.

I know you don't expect all the changes to be applied, but personally any of them are too extreme for me. They would require complete reworking of a lot of the game in order to maintain some form of difficulty.

I'm surprised you didn't comment on my point about limited inventory space making items more valuable to the player.(Not just gold value, but also sentimental value.) If you don't have to worry about inventory space, you never have to learn which items are desirable and worth picking up and holding on to.

I feel like you're dismissing the comments about you being a hoarder as insults or self righteous bragging. But, they're just saying that you're neglecting the game of inventory management and complaining and demanding it be removed. While a lot of people have (grudgingly) accepted the terms of the game and dealt with it. They're just saying it's not "unmanageable" as you title implies. You can't throw up a title like that and expect NOT to get called a hoarder given the circumstances in this game. Even ZOS a employee said it about people who think inventory is impossible to manage.

No the forums are for bitching and complaining as well as a strong attempt by people to kill this game 2 months in because all they know how to do I hate on ***.

That being said, yes I want a *** lollipop.


-cheers

Blackwidow wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

I don't consider giving yourself unlimited inventory as playing in an immersive fashion. In real life you can't just collect firewood all day long without returning to your campsite to drop it off.

This is not about bag space.

This is about bank space.

Let me know how many times I need to say this before it sinks in.

I already said, they're interchangeable. Inventory on your back or inventory in your bank, making either of them irrelevant will have the same effect, just slightly less if they kept bag space the same.

Also, the OP asked for both bank and bag storage to be increased. It's my opinion that any increases in bag/bank space will make them irrelevant, therefore they might as well be unlimited. What's the point in setting a limit if it's so high that it's not a factor, which is exactly what the OP is trying to accomplish, making inventory not a factor.

badmojo wrote: »

I already said, they're interchangeable.

No, they are not.

Carrying a car on your back is not the same as having one in your garage.

Inventory on your back or inventory in your bank, making either of them irrelevant will have the same effect, just slightly less if they kept bag space the same.

Having more bank space does not make it irrelevant.

Also, the OP asked for both bank and bag storage to be increased. It's my opinion that any increases in bag/bank space will make them irrelevant, therefore they might as well be unlimited.

You have a max of 110 bag space with a normal horse.

You are saying if it was 120 bag space, that is the same as unlimited?

ROFLMAO!!!!

Am I on Punked??

What's the point in setting a limit if it's so high that it's not a factor, which is exactly what the OP is trying to accomplish, making inventory not a factor.

Asking for a little more space is not the same as....

You know what, you can sit in the corner. Go! Go sit in the corner until you can be a good boy.

badmojo wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Because we can't mail stuff in the game? Oh, wait we can.

If we can, so can banks.

Great justification. I guess we should all be able to teleport around to quest givers and objectives instantly like the bots do, cause wayshrine.

You're missing the point: what Blackwidow was responding to was someone arguing the "realism" argument. Nobody's saying we should be able to teleport all over. What's being said is that "realism" as a primary justification is garbage.

badmojo wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Because we can't mail stuff in the game? Oh, wait we can.

If we can, so can banks.

Great justification. I guess we should all be able to teleport around to quest givers and objectives instantly like the bots do, cause wayshrine.

The system that I said was already in the game.

The wayshrine does not let you do what you are suggesting. Are you feeling okay? You are making a lot of weird comments that make no sense.

Using your thought process, and I use the were thought loosely, I can heal in the game so I guess everyone should just play in god mode.

I think part of the problem is a lot of you guys are looking at this mechanic only from a players perspective and not even considering a game developers perspective. Perhaps that's why I'm the odd one who enjoys the mini-game of inventory management. I would rather be a rat in a maze searching for the cheese than be a rat who was handed the cheese.

@Chrysolis‌ I don't care if you can't work my likes into your suggestions. You kept saying nobody has done anything besides call you a hoarder, so I felt like going into depth about how I feel about the system and why I feel that way.