Just get rid of classes and be done with it

Evergreen · May 2014

aleister wrote: »

So we have a called "dragon knight" running around in robes with staves, another called "night blade" that apparently make great healers and another called a "templar" who can't melee. Just get rid the classes already and open up the skill lines to everyone. The current system will never come close to being balanced.

Agreed. After every patch the Nightblade skills are getting screwed more and more. Shades no longer holds aggro like a sorc pet can (the supposed damage increase as a tradeoff is not even noticeable), Deathstroke was nerfed, and now vanish causes mobs to reset half the time.

Synfaer · May 2014

Synfaer wrote: »
» show previous quotes

It would create the opposite to total freedom. Access to every skill would create a 'game of clones'.

You mean like how everyone plays sorcerer now?

Yes that's exactly my point.
By popular opinion, sorcerer is the flavor of the month....so you see more sorcerers around (similar to the earlier vampire plague). Right now, with classes in place it take a certain amount of time investment to achieve competitive sorcerer (eg bolt escape is a level 42 class skill). With no classes, you would see this effect with no time investment.

Mablung · May 2014

davidhorstub17_ESO wrote: »

yeah cyrodiil will be so much fun with every person running the exact same build bolt escaping, cloaking, and spamming standards on each other. actually that sounds horrible.

This is exactly what would happen. The result would still be the same as it is now. We see Sorcs and DKs running around now getting all of the accolades in PvE and PvP, at least they have a name. To do what is suggested would be to invite clones. This would The Elder Scrolls: Clone Wars.

A better option would be to use the skill lines and restrictions just like Skyrim. If you want to nuke the crap out of someone, Destruction skill line. If you want to be a bow speciallist, bow skill line, etc. At least you would be limited and balanced to the specific build. Set pool of skill points and attribute points. Done deal. No special class abilities, just spells and whatever your preferred skill line provide.

SFBryan18 · May 2014

I think certain weapons, armors, and skills, should be class restricted, but players should also have the ability to change classes if they want to.

Maleficus · May 2014

Mablung wrote: »

A better option would be to use the skill lines and restrictions just like Skyrim. If you want to nuke the crap out of someone, Destruction skill line. If you want to be a bow speciallist, bow skill line, etc. At least you would be limited and balanced to the specific build. Set pool of skill points and attribute points. Done deal. No special class abilities, just spells and whatever your preferred skill line provide.

I do not know why anyone would assume they would let you level up every single skill line to max.. You would have to be given a finite amount of skill points to spend so that they have to be spent wisely.. Yeah there would be many people using the same builds, however you find that in all MMOS.. I disagree that "everyone" would use the same build i.e badass sorc build etc... I for one would not, when I play Skyrim I level up my healing all the way and my one handed skills all the way and armor the same; then just heal/bash my way through everything.. I don't even bother blocking ha ha.... There would be so many more options than there are now for unique builds that would be just as effective as another.... When the fights are skill based and not turn/tab target you have a very different dynamic than you find in most mmos...

Possibilities would be endless...

AngryNord · May 2014

SFBryan18 wrote: »

I think certain weapons, armors, and skills, should be class restricted, but players should also have the ability to change classes if they want to.

Yes, this seems to be how most other MMOs do it... Of course they also offer quest rewards in a variety of styles, which for ESO's part would likely mean rewriting almost every quest...

Maleficus · May 2014

Having access to all the Skill lines is a fundamental part of an ES game.. You can speculate all you want about how *** or good it would work, however until it is put into practice no one can say whether it would be bad or good to do this... I personally think it would help make this game what most of us want it to be... Co op Skyrim lol

Pewpie · May 2014

I think they should remove classes.

Make the weapon skill lines "open up" the choices of the other skill lines to use. And make so that certain skill lines block out other...

Make it sort of a big fooking tree of skills. You pick this skill, then you cannot pick those skills.

Main thing is to not force a permanent restriction on players with a class choice at level 1 that sticks forever. The most stupid game design ever made.

Enkil · May 2014

It's sad to see that ESO put in a very limited 4 classes in the MMO version of the game departing from longstanding tradition of no restrictions .... Yet another MMO in development (Archeage) is using the Elder Scrolls formula and not restricting skills yielding 120 total class combo possibilities... Wtf?

Nickdorlandb16_ESO · May 2014

davidhorstub17_ESO wrote: »

yeah cyrodiil will be so much fun with every person running the exact same build bolt escaping, cloaking, and spamming standards on each other. actually that sounds horrible.

This !, you people arent even thinking ABOUT the bad shizzle is going to happen then..

aleister · May 2014

I think "clone wars" would be the initial result as people gravitate toward the OP skill lines (just as they are today), but then it would be easier to balance by buffing counter skills and/or nerfing where necessary. The skill lines could be balanced with a whole lot less drama and entire groups of people feeling like they are being singled-out by the nerf hammer.

Hluill · June 2017

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I think it is still a worthy suggestion.

I don't understand the class skill-lines at all. And the new Warden really reminded me how "one of these things is not like the others" quality to the skill lines.

Warden: Animal companions, healing through nature and then ice magic?
Nightblade: sneaking, assassinating and then death magic?
Templar: Light spells, healing and then fire magic?

I am having a lot of fun playing this game as I concentrate on weapons' and armors' skills and ignore most of the class skills. It's a shame the design is wasted on me.

Arbitrator · June 2017

Yes yes yes... if they can't balance all classes to be within a few percentile of each other then they should just make the class skill lines universal.

The only bad thing about this is someone will say "this build is the best because (x)" and everyone will follow that 1 build until they do another sweep with nerfs/buffs. But by God at least we will be able to have some sense of balance and have fun making our character into what WE want it to be and not what Zenimax envisions us to be.

Bombashaman · June 2017

Well I would like MORE classes with stricter boundaries

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · June 2017

Holy necro 3+ years...

F7sus4 · June 2017

aleister wrote: »

So we have a called "dragon knight" running around in robes with staves, another called "night blade" that apparently make great healers and another called a "templar" who can't melee. Just get rid the classes already and open up the skill lines to everyone. The current system will never come close to being balanced.

Removing classes will not help game balance and will directly lead to fully homogenized meta. That's boring.

WhoThenNow7 · June 2017

No classes would be absolutely amazing. That sounds like elder scrolls all the way.

Bombashaman · June 2017

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

Holy necro 3+ years...

But this is a rather rare topic and he/she does bring some new to table with Warden. I vote let it be. There may be some material to discuss with.

Caligamy_ESO · June 2017

While it would certainly be interesting to see how this would change gameplay I can't help but imagine everyone in the end doing the same skills, with the same builds. Someone would find some ultimate skill combo, post it online and them 10,000 clones would pop up instantly on the game.

Uncle_Sweetshare · June 2017

davidhorstub17_ESO wrote: »

yeah cyrodiil will be so much fun with every person running the exact same build bolt escaping, cloaking, and spamming standards on each other. actually that sounds horrible.

This. Every player would be running more or less the same optimized build in PvP, and it would be absolutely terrible. I can understand people wanting total freedom, but from these comments over half the people have no clue what they're talking about (aka the people that think you dump 64 points into Health...). You can't let the casual vocal minority dictate 'balance'.

Rataroto · June 2017

Maleficus wrote: »

I just want to heal with one hand and swing the Mace of Molagbol with the other (really hard).....

^ Guys please understand, this is not a single player game, and sure as hell isn't nor going to be Skyrim Online. Its an mmo, and opening class skills to everyone would be just the end of the game, don't *** it up

Uncle_Sweetshare · June 2017

Rataroto wrote: »

Maleficus wrote: »

I just want to heal with one hand and swing the Mace of Molagbol with the other (really hard).....

^ Guys please understand, this is not a single player game, and sure as hell isn't nor going to be Skyrim Online. Its an mmo, and opening class skills to everyone would be just the end of the game, don't *** it up

Also this. Whoever necro'd this thread... For shame. I wouldn't have commented previously if I knew it was necro'd.

STEVIL · June 2017

aleister wrote: »

So we have a called "dragon knight" running around in robes with staves, another called "night blade" that apparently make great healers and another called a "templar" who can't melee. Just get rid the classes already and open up the skill lines to everyone. The current system will never come close to being balanced.

neither would that system.

Well arguably both would be balanced in the same way - everyone can pick the same options and so everyone can get the same results - barring gear of course - which even then... everyone can get.

The difference in a clustered or packaged (classed) system and a construction (classless) system tends to come down to not being better balanced or worse balanced (tho in my experience the "clustered" ones can come closer) is mostly one of flavor. When it comes down to it the construction systems end up becoming bland - fifty shade of vanilla - whereas classed systems remain ones which have more differentiation.

So, no to the idea.

on the other hand, i also dont agree with the premise.

You may be correct that as far as "viable" goes, any class can perform any role - in normal content at least and even into some or all veteran content. but while a NB can be a viable healer in those situations it cannot really do the job in hard mode score chasing content levels of play.

So, even your underlying premise of capability vs name seems to be off target.

All that said, the issue of class vs construction as often or not becomes an RPG religion issue - some folks feel very strongly one way or the other - and it is really more a case of taste than diet.

Darlgon · June 2017

FrauPerchta wrote: »

When I first heard the play how you want lure I envisioned a no class game with tons of skills to choose from based on your level and if your attribute pools were large enough to power it.

You do realize thats how ESO was at first promoted, until they decided they wanted MMO players to play. Apparently they needed classes to understand how to play the game.

Bombashaman · June 2017

Think about the balancing problems if you really got to choose from ALL class skills. There is so much unneeded tears from so little a change already..it would be like a waterfall with "no classes".

Kemosabe2point0 · June 2017

Uncle_Sweetshare wrote: »

davidhorstub17_ESO wrote: »

yeah cyrodiil will be so much fun with every person running the exact same build bolt escaping, cloaking, and spamming standards on each other. actually that sounds horrible.

This. Every player would be running more or less the same optimized build in PvP, and it would be absolutely terrible. I can understand people wanting total freedom, but from these comments over half the people have no clue what they're talking about (aka the people that think you dump 64 points into Health...). You can't let the casual vocal minority dictate 'balance'.

Isn't this already the status quo in pvp?

MisterBigglesworth · June 2017

Can the people above me please stop replying to a person who hasn't logged into the forum in literally 26 months?

Gilvoth · June 2017

aleister wrote: »

So we have a called "dragon knight" running around in robes with staves, another called "night blade" that apparently make great healers and another called a "templar" who can't melee. Just get rid the classes already and open up the skill lines to everyone. The current system will never come close to being balanced.

i hope it happens, it would be really good for both PvP and PvE.

kargen27 · June 2017

FrauPerchta wrote: »

When I first heard the play how you want lure I envisioned a no class game with tons of skills to choose from based on your level and if your attribute pools were large enough to power it. Instead we get oddball jack of all trade classes that really don't need to put attribute points into anything but health.

I'm not sure we are playing the same game. Of the three attributes health usually gets the lowest number of points if any points at all.

Commenting on other things in the thread... the way the game is now we have kind of a rock/paper/scissors thing happening. If all skills were available we would have a rock/rock/rock scenario going on.

Hluill · June 2017

Obviously something is wrong with me. Not only do I resurrect old threads, but I enjoy less popular builds. I really don't understand the drive for a "competitive" or "balanced" build. I can't imagine one build being supreme. I can't imagine everyone being good at, or even enjoying, playing that one build.

But hey, something is obviously wrong with me. My Templar doesn't use any of her templar skills. I have three Nightblades. Each only uses skills from one of the lines: One's an Assassin, one stays in the shadows and the third is all about siphoning. And heck, I even enjoy hybrid builds.

I am all about options and creating characters that are fun to play, not following the ephemeral and opinionated trends. I want the power gamers to have their fun, too. But their way ain't mine.