Templar, the now utterly useless class.

Shaun98ca2 · May 2014

I believe Zenimax screwed up BIG TIME in the regards of the Resource Management System.

It is there to limit how much we can use our spamable abilities.

The limited resources were supposed to play a factor and balance out the game as there is a soft/hard cap on regenerating these pools.

Then they went in and gave every class from day one a way to circumvent this almost entirely.

What they NEED to do is go back and rework all the abilities that circumvent the Resouces Management System and turn them into something that simply helps you reach the Regen soft/hard cap easier.

This way no class is truly getting an advantage over another with their endless resource pools they are currently having EXCEPT Templars.

Templars are really the only class in the game learning to play it properly really.

If Zenimax reverts restoring spirit back to its original form or even anything close they might as well take out the Resource pools all together.

nan.jieb17_ESO · May 2014

Personally I cannot complain about my Templar.
As the main magicka ressource is coming from heavy attacks not from magickaregen (which is maxed with warlock gear anyways) there shouldnt be a problem with healing.
Did Bogdan (undaunted mode) lately, in heavy armor, and cannot say I was out of magicka at any point.
The good thing about Templar as a healer is the big heal, which is not an AoE heal so it comes in handy in pvp too (heals for 1,3k crit without spellpower)

as people running all over the map :P .
Oh and Templar can also tank nicely :P even though DK tanks a little bit better the templar can tank any PvE dungeon which exists atm without difficulties. (done it myself)

AngryNord · May 2014

Darrett wrote: »

It mostly comes down to resource management. Give us the tools to do that; partially revert the Restoring Spirit nerf and give us active stamina regen, so stamina builds can be viable.

Send this to Zeni as /feedback! (in-game)

snowmanflvb14_ESO · May 2014

Kraun wrote: »

So, let me rewind a bit... back in beta, we had magicka regen on each cast, people cried, it got nerfed (now we reduction that does absolutely nothing).

"Ok, we're still the only class with a healing tree, i can live with being a heal-bot" ... "LF HEALER CRAGLORN TRIALS, NB!.. I'm like what.. NB's are preferred in healing above Templars... what? ... we'll as it turns out, NB's have a sick magicka regen, even trampling the one we templars used to have in beta, so NB ftw for healing.

"We'll atleast we got cleanse... ***, you can get in from the PVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! tree on ALL CLASSES.

By courtesy of the crybabies, the crappiest DPS, crappiest tank and now not even wanted as a healer.

Tell me there's light at the end.. i'm not one to easily quit based on nerfs and being the crappiest of them all, but i'm getting there with ESO templar.

ps. i don't do alts, so no need to mention.

Discuss.

well the guild I am in has templers who are great tanks, others are main healers and some dps. So to use it seems like a nice class

RivenCsky · May 2014

Simple fix for the Templar.

Lower the magicka cost of spells and increase the damage and mitigation. lets get cracking Zeni. Templar is not a Mage and stop forcing us into that role for Veteran levels.

Kraun · May 2014

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Did they change how Breath of Life works? It seems slower than pre-patch and takes longer before I get the healing effect after pushing the button. With the way the game handles damage done before healing I'm getting killed when I actually hit an Instant cast healing first before the damaging attack and the damage still gets first dibs.

I've noticed this also, i was hoping it was some form of server / ability lag issues, but i guess it's another stealth nerf or they unintentionally broke it, like plenty of other things with the 1.1.2.

Guess they need some better testers on the PTS, since things don't get tested there properly. Seems all the PTS guilds do, is hog content so they can be "world firsting" on live.

ExiledKhallisi · May 2014

That's funny my recount shows me healing better than vr12 sorcs and MB healers in cyrodil as vr2 resto/lightarmour pure caster templar .......and i don't run out of mana. l2theorycraft.

terence.caroneb17_ESO · May 2014

Natjur wrote: »

ipkonfigcub18_ESO wrote: »

ANYONE CAN WEAR CLOTH AND A HEALING STAFF AND HEAL LIKE A GUAR

This game is not Ever Quest, WoW, TERA etc., etc. This is Elder Scrolls Online. You can be/do whatever you want so stop thinking in a Box.

EDIT: I get tired of Templars in my groups because the refuse to learn the class. Seriously start learning how to BLOCK and DODGE-ROLL?

If Any class does not block or dodge-roll out of the way... yes I agrees, they need to learn to play, and maybe the Templar have had it too easy with biting jabs so they never needs to roll as the mobs never hit them back.
.

Excuse me but I got a VR7 templar and a level 25 NB, and with my NB I can stun/incapacitate mobs like no one's business so I don't care about dodging either.

The real problem is that all people saying biting jabs was OP and templars used only one skill are people who didn't play templar (and certainly not into VR Zones, and even more after this patch).

Skills of templar are bad for melee fighting now, they were average, now they're bad because Biting Jabs was the only melee attack we had in the class. That's all, you can't deny that without throwing your "no templar skill in my skill bar" build. Even if you give a stamina build, it will be a joke cause everyone (out of people not knowing the game well and playing it like any solo game) knows stamina builds are not worth it cause stamina is used by so much more than skills (dodge, interrupt, blocking, really, stamina is like an attribute you should divide the points every time you put one in)

You can say "but people comin to the forums are always the ones negative about the game" all you want, but why so many templars are coming here when they weren't complaining so much before (though they already were crushed by DK and Sorcs in PvP) ?
Because they got screwed, and when the weakest (cause if you consider only the skills, if NB passives were working, templar becomes automatically and clearly the weakest) class of the game gets nerfed (also in a healing passive making rez faster which wasn't even OP and didn't make the game unbalanced, we're talking about resurrection, not a root skill you spam like dark talons) to oblivion cause they target the only melee dps we have, you can't react without knowing the class beforehand.

Zenimax has made templars a useless melee class, sub-par long range dps, and not even the preferred healing class anymore.

That's not opinion, that's fact when you play PvE in VR5-VR10, when you play Craglorn, when you play PvP, when you try most of the builds possible (I did 3 respec with mine and changed abilities to test everything before and after the patch).

So we should just think "Hey I guess the game's gonna be harder for me, but I like challenge ! Hey I guess I'm gonna get destroyed in PvP, but I like challenge ! Hey I guess my class doesn't do much in damage so I gotta be a healer, no prob !"

How is that acceptable ? When you spent a month and half building something which was pretty much working (but still way weaker in dmg or ccs than other classes), and they put the last nail in the coffin, you don't stand there and say thank you, I got more challenge now.

I don't care if I got more challenge as long as everyone got more challenge. Templars needed buffs, in magicka management or more melee skills, and now all they got is a broken melee class. How about I explain to you, you don't have anymore efficient melee skill in your class abilities ? If you play ranged dps/healer you know you won't be able to do anything else and if you play melee, you know it will suck.

babylon · May 2014

Reinmard wrote: »

Oh ***, I always pick up the *** class, the only mmo where I picked up a OP one was at wow where I was a mage since the very beginning.
Any advices for future mmo´s for how know which class avoid?

Yep sure, just make sure you read the beta forums and take notice of patches and what skills just got nerfed before release. Usually indicates what class is the ginge of the game.

anakaki · May 2014

snowmanflvb14_ESO wrote: »

Kraun wrote: »

So, let me rewind a bit... back in beta, we had magicka regen on each cast, people cried, it got nerfed (now we reduction that does absolutely nothing).

"Ok, we're still the only class with a healing tree, i can live with being a heal-bot" ... "LF HEALER CRAGLORN TRIALS, NB!.. I'm like what.. NB's are preferred in healing above Templars... what? ... we'll as it turns out, NB's have a sick magicka regen, even trampling the one we templars used to have in beta, so NB ftw for healing.

"We'll atleast we got cleanse... ***, you can get in from the PVP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! tree on ALL CLASSES.

By courtesy of the crybabies, the crappiest DPS, crappiest tank and now not even wanted as a healer.

Tell me there's light at the end.. i'm not one to easily quit based on nerfs and being the crappiest of them all, but i'm getting there with ESO templar.

ps. i don't do alts, so no need to mention.

Discuss.

well the guild I am in has templers who are great tanks, others are main healers and some dps. So to use it seems like a nice class

Then your guild dont worry about time in trials.

Turial · May 2014

fyrefenix wrote: »

mean while when two veteran 4 beetles are too much for a nerfed templar to handle

Hey @fyrefenix‌ I am just curious what that addon is in your lower right corner.

Nickdorlandb16_ESO · May 2014

nan.jieb17_ESO wrote: »

Personally I cannot complain about my Templar.
As the main magicka ressource is coming from heavy attacks not from magickaregen (which is maxed with warlock gear anyways) there shouldnt be a problem with healing.
Did Bogdan (undaunted mode) lately, in heavy armor, and cannot say I was out of magicka at any point.
The good thing about Templar as a healer is the big heal, which is not an AoE heal so it comes in handy in pvp too (heals for 1,3k crit without spellpower) as people running all over the map :P .
Oh and Templar can also tank nicely :P even though DK tanks a little bit better the templar can tank any PvE dungeon which exists atm without difficulties. (done it myself)

We are not complaining about healing rly, healing has also some broken things.. Sorc that can heal/dps better so they are picked instead of temps..

Other then that its dawn of wrath/aedric spear

Yasha · May 2014

terence.caroneb17_ESO wrote: »

Excuse me but I got a VR7 templar and a level 25 NB, and with my NB I can stun/incapacitate mobs like no one's business so I don't care about dodging either.

Do you really have a NB or are you just imagining that a NB should be able to do that?

NB have 2 abilities that incapacitate- the main ability veiled strike requires that you are in stealth for the stun to work. Essentially that means you have to cast two abilities to get a stun. The second ability is Aspect of Terror which makes the mobs run away from you, which is kind of a mixed blessing. Oh there is also a stun that has a long cast time and breaks on damage. So essentially NB have one stun that takes up 2 slots and costs two abilities worth of magicka.

On the other hand, the first four abilities of the Templar Aedric Spear tree either knockback, knockdown, or stun and are all instant cast and three are ranged!

At least at lower levels playing a Templar is a cakewalk compared to NB.

anakaki · May 2014

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

That's funny my recount shows me healing better than vr12 sorcs and MB healers in cyrodil as vr2 resto/lightarmour pure caster templar .......and i don't run out of mana. l2theorycraft.

Your missing the point. L2understand.

Sorc manages trials just as good as temp but they deal triple dps. No casualties and better time. Get it? Take out the calculator and cliff notes if you need more help.

jesterstear · May 2014

I only have three Templar class skills trained, Honour the Dead, Repentence, and Vampire's Bane, so forgive the ignorance.

For all the talk of the cooldown nerf, what sort of power:damage ratio are you guys seeing? My build is far from optimal as regards casting and DPS, since i'm persevering with the tank/offhealer 1H/shield approach - too much heavy armour, too few attribute points in Magicka (1 have a regen ring, but that's my only concession to it). On my character, the direct damage skills all have a very poor damage/magicka ratio - that's why I never trained them.

Presumably you guys that built yourselves around biting jabs get a better return on Magicka points spent - or do you? At the end of the day, soloing is about making your enemy run out of resources before you do, if you use skills that offer < 1:1 return you're actually defeating yourself. You'd actually be better off saving those Magikca points for healing, most of the time...

meghuskoow · May 2014

I am a templar, i gptta say once you learn the block dodge system its super satisfying. Almost feels like the big dumb mob cant hit you cause your that pne guy thats too quick for them, like from a movie.

Darwa · May 2014

Turial wrote: »

Hey @fyrefenix‌ I am just curious what that addon is in your lower right corner.

@Turiel

Just Google 'Zygor' and you'll find it.

Basically, it's an addon that holds your hand by telling you where to go next.

Dudis · May 2014

Gawd I'm glad I don't pve more than necessary... :S

I'm v11 and almost exclusively pvp (solo or duo) and i'm still enjoying my templar. The Biting Jabs "oh actually we do have cooldowns"-nerf didn't exactly help though.

I do kind of bad single and AoE dps, my survivability is alright but nothing compared to my friend who plays a DK. What carries me is that I have access to strong heals without having to use a resto staff.

Thechemicals · May 2014

Vr 8 Templar here using 1h/shield and resto staff. I can tank anything and i can heal anything pve or pvp.

Thats cool that a nightblade can spam resto tree combat prayer and steadfast ward to keep raids healed, but that isn't an indication of Templar weakness. I would say that a loophole has been found, making Nightblade have unlimited stamina and magicka for a very minor penalty of 22%-25% reduce wpn/spell power that when used for healing only, has no penalty.

The skill will no doubt get a nerf since it is grossly overpowered in heal only methods and overpowered in pvp as well. The 22% reduction penalty is easily removed by proper sets and stacking traits. What you have is a class with Bolt escape type skills through invisibility and permanently topped off stamina and magicka. The only challenge they have, is keeping there health up.

The best thing for Zeni to do is give it a Health loss while toggled on.

SoulScream · May 2014

I have a vr10 templar and after this stealth nerf patch I don't find the class fun to play. I could respec but did not get a point respec when the skill was nerfed. I switched to a sorc.

Bhakura · May 2014

Just because of threads like these i rolled a templar :P

Iceman_mat · May 2014

there to limit how much we can use our spamable abilities.

^
-Cheers

grizzbi · May 2014

Bhakura wrote: »

Just because of threads like these i rolled a templar :P

I always play the underdog class. Because it's more fun and more challenging. With my templar, I've discovered that there's no real hidden synergy between the abilities from the 2 non healing tree. Sure you can use them, and be able to solo. But you won't have a lot of fun trying many builds..Because most of them if not all will just be sub par.

Currently Templar are the class with the less diversity in the game. If you just want to be less efficient and play a more challenging game than other classes, go on. But in groups, if you don't want to be a burden, don't except to be anything else than a support healer or a tank relying on..heals..let's say a paladin. Solo DPS is still possible but you'll fight mobs pack 99% of the time. Aoe DPS is lacking.

Templar are limited to be a support class. And not exactly the best at it.

Anyway, if you can accept that, the game can still be fun as a templar. You just won't play the same game as the other classes.

Good luck (no sarcasm here)

PayneTK · May 2014

Stop saying "spamable ability"!!

Templars have 5 skills on the bar:
-one is for charge
-one is for single target damage
-one is for control (movement for example)
-one is for stun
-one is for aoe damage!! (aka Biting Jabs)

You don't spam Biting Jabs on single targets, you only use it on groups!! And you mix it up with stamina base skills so you can benefit from both magicka and stamina pools!!

There are no stamina based aoe skills in sword and board line, you do need to use your aoe ability while fighting groups!!

Since when did you people became anti-AOE?! Since when are MMO's frowning upon the usage of AOE skills on groups of enemies?!

This game only has 5 skill slots and one of them will always be a spamable AOE ability because u frikin need it for what it's designed to do!!

Turial · May 2014

Darwa wrote: »

Turial wrote: »

Hey @fyrefenix‌ I am just curious what that addon is in your lower right corner.

@Turiel

Just Google 'Zygor' and you'll find it.

Basically, it's an addon that holds your hand by telling you where to go next.

How can you spell my name wrong, it is right in front of you :P Also, thank you, I was just curious which addon it was, could not guess from the picture.

Dudis · May 2014

PayneTK wrote: »

Stop saying "spamable ability"!!

Templars have 5 skills on the bar:
-one is for charge
-one is for single target damage
-one is for control (movement for example)
-one is for stun
-one is for aoe damage!! (aka Biting Jabs)

You don't spam Biting Jabs on single targets, you only use it on groups!! And you mix it up with stamina base skills so you can benefit from both magicka and stamina pools!!

There are no stamina based aoe skills in sword and board line, you do need to use your aoe ability while fighting groups!!

Since when did you people became anti-AOE?! Since when are MMO's frowning upon the usage of AOE skills on groups of enemies?!

This game only has 5 skill slots and one of them will always be a spamable AOE ability because u frikin need it for what it's designed to do!!

I use Impulse for AoE /shrug.

Biting Jabs was (and probably still is after the nerf) a very high dps and cost effective single target ability. It kind of lacks in the AoE department tbh.

The stuff you listed isn't even close to what i and probably most others have on their bars.

PayneTK · May 2014

Impulse is a destruction staff skill. Its not even a Templar skill. Not all ppl use staffs.

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO · May 2014

This is the whole reason why biting jabs needed it change, it was good to use in any situation. Most AoE abilities lose their effectiveness once you're down to a couple targets/one target. BitJab just keeps on smashing.

tplink3r1 · May 2014

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

This is the whole reason why biting jabs needed it change, it was good to use in any situation. Most AoE abilities lose their effectiveness once you're down to a couple targets/one target. BitJab just keeps on smashing.

1.it has a cast time, wich you can be easily stunned AND killed.
2.it deals very low damage AOE(around 220 for a VR level) , but still the best for templars.
they needed to give us new abilities or improve the other ones, not a nerf.

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO · May 2014

tplink3r1 wrote: »

oxygen_boarderb16_ESO wrote: »

This is the whole reason why biting jabs needed it change, it was good to use in any situation. Most AoE abilities lose their effectiveness once you're down to a couple targets/one target. BitJab just keeps on smashing.

1.it has a cast time, wich you can be easily stunned AND killed.
2.it deals very low damage AOE(around 220 for a VR level) , but still the best for templars.
they needed to give us new abilities or improve the other ones, not a nerf.

L2P is all I have to say to this counter argument, seriously, you need more practice in both PvP/PvE if this is how you play.

1. Why would you use this ability during a position of time where you can be countered and killed. A little awareness of what it is your doing please.
2. It was spammable, it did good AoE damage, and its effectiveness increased as the enemy count reduced. Opposite to how other AoE abilities function.
3. Now we have options in terms of looking at how abilities combo each other and what changes can now be made to the Templar class.

I'm sorry to say this, and I hate saying this, but yes I'm going to refer to WoW only for the perspective of quoting one of their changes, in which it made a lot of paladins upset at the time.

They had to strip the character down a bit in terms of their "crutches". It was becoming too much that you'd do 1 ability and just expect to win all the time and they couldn't develop or change the paladin because anytime they looked at changes, that ability was just over the top.

I feel in essence the same thing is happening here. They couldn't look at fixing other abilities with Biting Jabs in its current form. Possibly due to how internal testing discussions went down.

People came to the forum in the first few weeks of PvP/PvE and were complaining about how powerful Templars were perceived.

Again just my opinion.