I hate leveling in this game

Atheus · May 2014

I'm at VR7 right now and I'm just about out of steam to play this game. It's just not fun to play any more! The main culprit for me is the skill system, which I will explain presently.

This game's apex seems to be at about level 18 or so - you have your second skill bar, and for the most part you have the weapon(s) and abilities you like the most on your skill bar absorbing your quest XP and gradually improving. By the time you get to level 40 or so, though, the abilities you were primarily interested in like your class abilities, the first weapon or two, etc. are fully developed and can no longer improve.

Maybe this is where I went wrong. My reaction at this stage was that I had skill points to spend, and a flow of quest XP which would eventually run out in the end game when questing is no longer the focus, so I had better keep putting those skill points into new abilities to develop on my bar so when I am in end game I'll have a nice pool of skills to choose from. As a result, 95% of the time I'm no longer playing a sorcerer at all, I'm playing some screwball with a hodgepodge of weapon skills, guild skills, wearing armor with incomplete passives that really aren't all that helpful... Fortunately the game is fairly forgiving of crap character builds - put a healing staff on your secondary bar and you can screwball your way through just about anything, albeit very slowly. I see other players whiz past me evidently using all their strongest skills killing monsters in seconds where it may take me 20-30 to annoy it to death with my epic but impotent sword and board.

So yeah, it works. For the last month I've been playing in a way that maximizes the rate at which I develop new skills, which is good for the long run, but it's really just annoying in the present. Most of the time when I go to hand in a quest I find myself swapping actions around on the bar before and after turning it in, or maybe I just leave the useless skills on my bar hoping there will be some other quest to turn in before I get into another serious fight... It works, but it doesn't feel cool at all. How much more heroic would it be if instead I could just build my character to be as strong as I can make it, then run around kicking ass the best way I know how without feeling like doing so was going to leave me with limited options down the road (or at least a long, tedious grind to develop said options).

I realize this kind of feedback is not likely to make an impression at this point, but if a dev reads this (lolyeahright) maybe put it in the back of your mind when you think about what sort of things you can do to make leveling up more fun.

Cogo · May 2014

First of all, sucks that you get double exp in Cyro now, and not even mention the exp you get in the new zone WITH A GOOD GROUP THAT ACCEPTS TO WIPE.

Also, why are you saying "leveling" and not playing?

You write a quite understandeble and long post, but you seam to focus on only exp? If getting the best XP and get highest level is your only goal, then I believe you when you obviously are frustrated.

Try "playing" instead of "leveling".

Have you tried other stuff?

Your post proves that you defently knows your fighting. Hows your exploring? Questing? You know you can run to other alliance zones and do the veteran dungeons and quests there right?

You end with, leveling up more fun.

Hmm, I am only 37, but played only this char since 5 days prelaunch.

I waste way to much time on, countless things that would be more effectivly used if I grinded exp.

I havnt grinded a single second and so far I havent been bored either in the game. But, you will see the raids much sooner then me. However, did you meet that wierd dark elf wizard who wanted to buy your soul for 500 gold now and 500 in a week or what it was when it was time to collect it?
As an orc, I ofcourse said no. Thats just wrong. But still I am curious what would happen. Do you know?

Atheus · May 2014

Cogo wrote: »

First of all, sucks that you get double exp in Cyro now, and not even mention the exp you get in the new zone WITH A GOOD GROUP THAT ACCEPTS TO WIPE.

Also, why are you saying "leveling" and not playing?

You write a quite understandeble and long post, but you seam to focus on only exp? If getting the best XP and get highest level is your only goal, then I believe you when you obviously are frustrated.

Try "playing" instead of "leveling".

Have you tried other stuff?

Your post proves that you defently knows your fighting. Hows your exploring? Questing? You know you can run to other alliance zones and do the veteran dungeons and quests there right?

You end with, leveling up more fun.

Hmm, I am only 37, but played only this char since 5 days prelaunch.

I waste way to much time on, countless things that would be more effectivly used if I grinded exp.

I havnt grinded a single second and so far I havent been bored either in the game. But, you will see the raids much sooner then me. However, did you meet that wierd dark elf wizard who wanted to buy your soul for 500 gold now and 500 in a week or what it was when it was time to collect it?
As an orc, I ofcourse said no. Thats just wrong. But still I am curious what would happen. Do you know?

I understand what you're saying here, but I guess your lack of experience of the veteran content leaves you with a funny impression of my case. For starters, you (teleport, not run) into the next faction's zone (moving counter-clockwise around Tamriel) right at about 50/VR1, then into the third faction's at VR5-6. That said, let me point out that although I play daily, I am certainly not rushing through the content. I'm the type of player that listens to the voice acted dialog to the end even though I could read it (or skim it) far faster, and often ask those optional follow-up questions if they seem interesting. I have probably spent about 2/3 of my play time doing something other than questing, divided evenly between figuring out how to store all the junk I've accumulated in my bags that seems useful (bank alts), working on crafting, screwing around in Cyrodil (usually getting my ass kicked by VR10's) or helping guildies with random stuff. But at the end of the day this game is primarily about using your heroic combat skills to resolve the world's problems, and if you are working on new skills, that will involve a lot of fighting with one hand tied behind your back, using skills that were your 36th choice, and/or (tediously) juggling skills around every time you hand in a quest. Not fun.

Getting back to the first point, if I were a hardcore "leveler" I would have been VR10 weeks ago. I'm just trying to use my relatively little time actually questing in a way that will benefit me the most in the long run, since by the time I'm at end game VR12, I expect the content that I want to actually play won't be so simple that I can go at it with one hand tied behind my back.

At 37 you're pretty much still in phase 1 where you've got 5 skills on your bar that you like quite a lot which really put a dent in the enemy. Divide your combat potential by 2-3, then multiply the enemy combat potential by 2-3, and that's VR6+ content.

traigusb14_ESO2 · May 2014

At VR2 I'm using a combat bar, and a "stupid bar" that I swap to on quest turn ins.

Sometimes I'll swap a non leveled skill into the main bar to try out new rotations etc.

Not the most efficient way to level the most skills, but I've come up with 2 tank, 3 Dps and 2 healing builds (full 2 bar builds) I like for when I do dungeons etc. all pretty much maxed out (at least level III on their morph).

There is enough XP that I decided not to do 2 bars of clownshoes skills and I feel better after trying that for 3 levels in my 40s.

I'd love to be able to save some presets, even if they had a load time to prevent abuse.

Evilbeauty · May 2014

Maybe you should just try to focus on a 1or2 rolls.

I know you can be anything and everything in this game but realistically people shouldn't. Because I would much prefer to do end game content with some one who has either stuck to healing, dps or tanking for a while and know his spec/job very well.

I am vr7 (tho I grinded craglorn style from vr3)
I have all the specs that I know I want to play at end game maxed (healing, destro staff, class, guild skills).

I haven't gone and tried to level every single Armor and weapon because realistically a dk or temp tank is better then a sorc tank regardless of what people say/think.

I still are trying to level some minor skills but I only throw them on my bar when I hand in a quest.

Cogo · May 2014

Even though I try to look at your view from your standpoint....most people here have very little understanding what hard leveling and difficult encounters even mean.

I wount write an essay which I got complaints that I do every time I try to make a point or answer a question

Leveling grindig is Everquest, where you play without sleep from friday to sunday night juuust to get a bit closer in lvl 45 to lvl 46. And I am not lying.

Also, the Everquest raid system, event, raidencounters. They had no adons, you had no clue how much and when a dragon for example would breath fire towards the raid and cause a wipe among 50 people.

Or even needing specific classes to "port" a raid to a raidzone called Plane of hate. You only came 6 people at the time with a class called wizard who if they where powerful enough and grinded this spelll, you ended up in the raidzone, but the landing spot was never "safe". Elite raiding guilds wiped about half the time just trying to get there.

Then we talking about 6-10 hours raiding, with loot from bosses that you could not link and everyone in the raid could loot.

DKP and proper guilds where born this way, and to this day, no MMO have even come close in the difficulty to "level" to highest level AND then raid different encounters. If you do not know much about Everquest, then the raiding wasnt just a matter of cooperation and proper skilled people, but you had 18 clases with their own "best" thing.

Anarchy Online had a bit more then Tank/dps/healer, but other then that, thats the only raid setup we have seen....maybe untill now in ESO

I am not happy that the OP is sad that they failed. I just sigh when there isnt any remote thinking what went wrong, what can we do differnt.

The only answer from most players seams to be BUFF MY CLASS SO WE CAN KILL THIS BOSS.

Iam not saying they are wrong. Maybe it is to hard that no one can beat it. I dont know that. But before coming to that conslution, maybe regroup, try other tactics and what I DO NOT either understand or accept is that the hardest encounter in the game would been killed the first time a raid challenged it.
Thats just plain stupid.

Come again when you been trying for a few weeks, changed around things. Figure out the possible weaknesses in the encounter.

LadyLothi · May 2014

I think there is a misunderstanding regarding what OP truly tried to say. It's not about being too hard or not interesting enough when it comes to content.

It's about the fact that if you envisioned yourself sticking to a certain playstyle, even with a few crafts thrown in, you are at the end of the possibilities your characters has even before you reached VR content.

Maybe that is a concession to ES, because in Skyrim, you have your main skill trees maxed out fairly early on as well.
But in MMOs, you usually have to invest quite heavily into your chosen class and skillline before becoming an expert at it.
Means instead of becoming stronger in your chosen build and skillline, you start derping around with stuff you actually never intended to play.

Me, I am lvl 42, I have deadric summoning and light armor maxed out, working on maxing both staffs which will happen relatively soon. And then?
Do I start to wear a different set of armor, equip other weapons or branch out into the other skilllines of my class or into those of guilds?

I just never expected to have to make that choice so very early.

Monkeyshoeslive · May 2014

You gotta mix your builds up. Even at 28 I'm constantly swapping between a melee, ranged and healing build, trying out new combos.

jircris11 · May 2014

Cogo wrote: »

First of all, sucks that you get double exp in Cyro now, and not even mention the exp you get in the new zone WITH A GOOD GROUP THAT ACCEPTS TO WIPE.

Also, why are you saying "leveling" and not playing?

You write a quite understandeble and long post, but you seam to focus on only exp? If getting the best XP and get highest level is your only goal, then I believe you when you obviously are frustrated.

Try "playing" instead of "leveling".

Have you tried other stuff?

Your post proves that you defently knows your fighting. Hows your exploring? Questing? You know you can run to other alliance zones and do the veteran dungeons and quests there right?

You end with, leveling up more fun.

Hmm, I am only 37, but played only this char since 5 days prelaunch.

I waste way to much time on, countless things that would be more effectivly used if I grinded exp.

I havnt grinded a single second and so far I havent been bored either in the game. But, you will see the raids much sooner then me. However, did you meet that wierd dark elf wizard who wanted to buy your soul for 500 gold now and 500 in a week or what it was when it was time to collect it?
As an orc, I ofcourse said no. Thats just wrong. But still I am curious what would happen. Do you know?

Very well said, i honestly spend most of my time exploring while i level. Heck i even make little games or tests for my self and i have yet to grow bored. Just to give you an idea..i have lvled 3 chars to 50 and one of them is vet 10 now. all the same faction so its the same quests.

Atheus · May 2014

Cogo wrote: »

...I am not happy that the OP is sad that they failed. I just sigh when there isnt any remote thinking what went wrong, what can we do differnt.

The only answer from most players seams to be BUFF MY CLASS SO WE CAN KILL THIS BOSS.

Iam not saying they are wrong. Maybe it is to hard that no one can beat it. I dont know that. But before coming to that conslution, maybe regroup, try other tactics and what I DO NOT either understand or accept is that the hardest encounter in the game would been killed the first time a raid challenged it.
Thats just plain stupid.

Come again when you been trying for a few weeks, changed around things. Figure out the possible weaknesses in the encounter.

You are definitely completely misunderstanding what I'm saying. The content is not too hard. I can easily destroy any content by putting the skills I finished maxing out at level 40 back onto my bars, swapping into my cloth armor that gives me crazy strong spells, and KABLAM things that were extremely difficult just explode in mere moments. That's not how I play, though, for reasons that I explained in some detail if you slow down and actually read what I wrote.

traigusb14_ESO2 and LadyLothi who commented above know what I'm talking about. The fact that one would would devote their entire secondary action bar to skills that are just parked for the purpose of absorbing XP as they turn in quests means that there is something pretty tacky going on with the skill system. There's nothing wrong with doing that - the game structure encourages it, but from a certain perspective it's like using an exploit to level your skills - or does it make any logical sense that skills should improve over the course of having a conversation with someone at the end of your mission? It's just silly, and could really use a bit of refinement.

Perhaps if there were a system that XP that would be applied to a skill that's on your action bar that is maxed out gets divided evenly among dormant skills that are still being developed. The result is you get to play using the skills you like most all the time, rather than some mishmash of undeveloped and poorly matched skills you feel may be useful somewhere down the line.

Cogo · May 2014

Atheus wrote: »

You are definitely completely misunderstanding what I'm saying. The content is not too hard. I can easily destroy any content by putting the skills I finished maxing out at level 40 back onto my bars, swapping into my cloth armor that gives me crazy strong spells, and KABLAM things that were extremely difficult just explode in mere moments. That's not how I play, though, for reasons that I explained in some detail if you slow down and actually read what I wrote.

traigusb14_ESO2 and LadyLothi who commented above know what I'm talking about. The fact that one would would devote their entire secondary action bar to skills that are just parked for the purpose of absorbing XP as they turn in quests means that there is something pretty tacky going on with the skill system. There's nothing wrong with doing that - the game structure encourages it, but from a certain perspective it's like using an exploit to level your skills - or does it make any logical sense that skills should improve over the course of having a conversation with someone at the end of your mission? It's just silly, and could really use a bit of refinement.

Perhaps if there were a system that XP that would be applied to a skill that's on your action bar that is maxed out gets divided evenly among dormant skills that are still being developed. The result is you get to play using the skills you like most all the time, rather than some mishmash of undeveloped and poorly matched skills you feel may be useful somewhere down the line.

I did see that I misunderstood you a bit. Sorry for that.
But my answer is still valid. There are people playing with "broken skills", against "to hard events/encountrs" and for some odd reason.....they make it.

Now I get it. You are asking to let ALL your chosen skills level, whatever you are doing, wearing and using.

Ok, instead of the obvious question about why on earth would anyone who likes ESO want that? Why would you want that? Its a skill based game?

Unless you missed it. ESO leveling system IS, whatever you do, whatever skills, gear and what not you do.....they get better and its connected to your personal skill.

ESO have the wonderful feature that even if Skill A is the best, then your playstyle that you do and WANT todo, is just as good or better even without using Skill A.

If I understood your wish to level ALL skills no matter if you use them or not, I recommend you to read about ESO. You seamed to miss a small detail what this game is about.....

LadyLothi · May 2014

If I understood your wish to level ALL skills no matter if you use them or not, I recommend you to read about ESO. You seamed to miss a small detail what this game is about.....

And you, dear sir, are still miles off the mark.

He doesn't necessarily want to level all the dormant skills or unused skillsets equally, or at least he only proposes that as solution to a dilemma that exists in the game.

He wants:

- the levelling of primary skills being more meaningful and more spread out across the "lifecycle" of a character (and not already being finished way before you even hit VR content)
- the levelling of secondary and unused skills not tied to the turning in of quests, because you can easily just swap your skills before you turn in a quest and level skills you did not use for the actual fight, just so you wont "waste" precious XP on skills that are already maxed out

Does this make it more clear?

Atheus · May 2014

Reaching level 50 takes approximately the same amount of time as reaching VR5, which takes the same amount of time as reaching VR10. If you've got all your best abilities fully developed by 50, you're at your best just a third of the way through the game.

Perhaps Cogo just can't understand because he's still in the best part of the game.

Cogo: let me know how you feel about it all once you've "finished" the game at level 50, then essentially started over from the beginning again twice except this time you've already built up all your class skills and are wondering what to do with all the skill points you're getting. Let's see what you do with the dilemma of monsters being 3x as tough, and pretty much any new skill you decide to experiment with will significantly reduce your fighting strength (because how good can the skill be if you didn't bother with it within the first 100 or so skill points you spent?)

aleister · May 2014

Atheus wrote: »

Reaching level 50 takes approximately the same amount of time as reaching VR5, which takes the same amount of time as reaching VR10. If you've got all your best abilities fully developed by 50, you're at your best just a third of the way through the game.

Perhaps Cogo just can't understand because he's still in the best part of the game.

Cogo: let me know how you feel about it all once you've "finished" the game at level 50, then essentially started over from the beginning again twice except this time you've already built up all your class skills and are wondering what to do with all the skill points you're getting. Let's see what you do with the dilemma of monsters being 3x as tough, and pretty much any new skill you decide to experiment with will significantly reduce your fighting strength (because how good can the skill be if you didn't bother with it within the first 100 or so skill points you spent?)

I've just started the VR grind and it is incredibly anticlimactic and demoralizing. After 50 levels of mind-numbing quest grinding and completing the final parts of the main quest line (where for me it had just become interesting), I get thrown into another factions zone to start all over on their boring gopher quests without even the semi-interesting main quest line. They made some bad, bad design decisions in this turkey.

Cogo · May 2014

Atheus wrote: »

Reaching level 50 takes approximately the same amount of time as reaching VR5, which takes the same amount of time as reaching VR10. If you've got all your best abilities fully developed by 50, you're at your best just a third of the way through the game.

Perhaps Cogo just can't understand because he's still in the best part of the game.

Cogo: let me know how you feel about it all once you've "finished" the game at level 50, then essentially started over from the beginning again twice except this time you've already built up all your class skills and are wondering what to do with all the skill points you're getting. Let's see what you do with the dilemma of monsters being 3x as tough, and pretty much any new skill you decide to experiment with will significantly reduce your fighting strength (because how good can the skill be if you didn't bother with it within the first 100 or so skill points you spent?)

I will sir!

But I am under the impression that ESO will never be "Finsihed". I base this on the company and DEVS official releases about their plans for the game, in all aspects.

One main reason I like this game so much is just that, whenever I do, how much I ever play, and I never play alts.....it making me very interested in alts just to see different builds.

But you have my word, when I have tried over and over, maybe for over a month for my guild, to beat the challenges that lies before us in the new zone. I will get back to you.

The fact that it takes more time to get veteran levels is a BIG releaf for me. Cause even though I AM happy with the game. One think still concern me...the exp you get. I am happy that Zenimax havnt given in and give everyone highest level right away, but the increase in exp in cyro (Including even my lvl sir) is a concern.

My base for this is my 8ish experience in Everquest. Where it took 4-6 months to reach highest level, then they implemented a fantastic feature for high levelers called Alternative Advancement (AA), which where really hard to gain 1, but each you got, you have a huge choice of skills to put ONE on.

This way people simple learn how to play the game and the game itself gets muuuuuch more fun, cause when you reach that certain level, get that very hard to get item/quest item, or that AA....you become more powerful and rightly so.

Whats wrong with that?

hk11 · May 2014

That's the same problem I have with it.

The character just sort of gets boring at about 30. With skill trees, you always have a carrot but in ESO it seems like you get the most used abilities pretty much right away.

Atheus · May 2014

Cogo wrote: »

My base for this is my 8ish experience in Everquest. Where it took 4-6 months to reach highest level, then they implemented a fantastic feature for high levelers called Alternative Advancement (AA), which where really hard to gain 1, but each you got, you have a huge choice of skills to put ONE on.

This way people simple learn how to play the game and the game itself gets muuuuuch more fun, cause when you reach that certain level, get that very hard to get item/quest item, or that AA....you become more powerful and rightly so.

Whats wrong with that?

I understand that you enjoy long grinds. That's fine. I don't particularly like long grinds, but I'm not entirely against them if there is an actual purpose to the grind. I never played Everquest, but my guess is that over your 4-6 month grind to max level, you were constantly building your character up, not sideways (usually downways (yeah that's a new word)). I'm also guessing that your AA ability was quite strong, and did not -replace- another key ability once you earned it - you got to use it in tandem with everything else making for an even stronger character, am I right? I really don't know, but this is my guess. I'd also venture to guess that if you do actually replace a skill on your action bars, you do so because the skill is flat out better than the one you are replacing, or will somehow make you stronger.

That's not how ESO is. As I have been saying, the strongest abilities are in your bag at level 50 (unless you did something terribly wrong). After that it's either screwing around with all the garbage skills you didn't bother with before, or ignoring skill advancement entirely and just banging through with the "right" skill set for another 100 levels worth of questing.

Tarwin · May 2014

Need some "mini dings" (with a perk) to take away the pain

1/4" into V1 and only the long long road to V2 in front of me!

Azzuria · May 2014

I'm currently leveling 3 toons, one in each faction, highest is a 35 Bosmer Nightblade and never once have I been bored.

I don't grind.

Ever.

I play. I quest. I explore. There really is a lot to see and do and, yes I'm aware that I'll be doing all the opposing faction zones in Veterans content but doing them on a different level with completely different characters.

It's a game. Go Play!

LadyLothi · May 2014

@Atheus:
Our communication skills must be lacking, no one here seems to understand that this isn't about the game not being fun, the quests not being interesting and the overall enjoyment of the process of getting to a higher level.
Alternatively, the reading comprehension of those reading this thread is a bit underdeveloped.

It is about the SKILLS needed to do all those wonderful quests.

The first skills you use, you have maxed while you are still pretty much new to the game. There is no getting anywhere with them after about lvl 40.
Only thing left is branching out into all directions with skills you never intended to use.

Grim13 · May 2014

..It does get a bit ridiculous the 3rd or 4th time you experience an assumed identity quest...

"Oh, let me guess... that's not the real <insert name here>..."

Atheus · May 2014

LadyLothi wrote: »

@Atheus:
Our communication skills must be lacking, no one here seems to understand that this isn't about the game not being fun, the quests not being interesting and the overall enjoyment of the process of getting to a higher level.
Alternatively, the reading comprehension of those reading this thread is a bit underdeveloped.

It is about the SKILLS needed to do all those wonderful quests.

The first skills you use, you have maxed while you are still pretty much new to the game. There is no getting anywhere with them after about lvl 40.
Only thing left is branching out into all directions with skills you never intended to use.

LOL, yeah well, it's no mystery that the people who come in here missing the point and trying to counsel me on how the game is fine but I'm just approaching it wrong are all players who haven't played past level 40.

frwinters_ESO · May 2014

Didn't even read the whole thing, Seen about 200 of these threads. Get it. Bored, hard, we get it. If you read the forums you would have found this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/910442#Comment_910442

Where ZOS has heard the threads about VR grinding blah blah blah and knows of the frustrations and making plans. Doesnt mean it will happen tomorrow or even in a month, but it will happen.

fyrefenix · May 2014

my templar tank was nerfed and is useless so i cannot get past ali'kir desert, 2 beetles are tougher than me.

i cannot afford the 20k plus gold to respec and be the healer that zenimax wants me to be.

and i enjoyed the 1-50 story quest but i don't know if it was worth 95 dollars.

Atheus · May 2014

frwinters_ESO wrote: »

Didn't even read the whole thing, Seen about 200 of these threads. Get it. Bored, hard, we get it. If you read the forums you would have found this thread:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/910442#Comment_910442

Where ZOS has heard the threads about VR grinding blah blah blah and knows of the frustrations and making plans. Doesnt mean it will happen tomorrow or even in a month, but it will happen.

fyrefenix wrote: »

my templar tank was nerfed and is useless so i cannot get past ali'kir desert, 2 beetles are tougher than me.

i cannot afford the 20k plus gold to respec and be the healer that zenimax wants me to be.

and i enjoyed the 1-50 story quest but i don't know if it was worth 95 dollars.

Point taken, but please try not to reduce this thread to a general "VR content sucks" thread. This thread is somewhat focused on the skill development system, which (if memory serves) begins deteriorating at about level 40.

mattijs.buysb16_ESO · May 2014

Let me put a shoulder under the OP's post.
Maybe he has chosen the wrong title, from which people might get the wrong idea about the content of his words.

But I understand what he is trying to say.
I only have 1 character yet who is in his mid 30.
Maybe I have too little experience in mmorpg's to get a very good build from start-on, but already I struggle with my skills.
Sure I have my bread and butterskills which takes me troughout the game "easily", but I constantly have a few skillpoints left to spend.
Last night I spend them on skills I find less "interesting"...just because I had the feeling I have to spend them on something.
I can imagine that when I reached endgame and my bread and butters are completely maxed out (even before reaching that stage), I even have a harder time on spending points.
I'm not saying there isn't skillchoice enough, but skills just don't blend enough to support the ones I really want to use.
It would be more interesing if there were more allround supportskills, passives or perhaps even an extra morpf or 2 on the same skill which can only be lvled at VR content. So there is still need for going through that content.

To be short, from what I read and red, I think characterprogression stops at lvl 40ish...luckily the story continues or I would never continue.

Imo, characterprogression is what rpg based on in the first place...sure it's nice to find a place in Tamriel to fit in storywise, but what's the point of it, if you only stuck with words.

Soloeus · May 2014

On a 1-5 skill bar system, you are essentially stuck boring yourself with the same 5 skills or reducing your effectiveness to add in a few other things.

Make the skill bar 1-9 and the game gets 2x as fun. Any active/support skill would just mean my captain obvious "Crystal Shards, Rune Prison, Bolt Escape, Volcanic Rune, Mutagen" would have to be replaced.

1-5 skill bar system is the worst design choice in this game and leveling skills is total dredge because of it. I learned if I just put Rune Prison on both bars, I can have 4 crap skills and just hold roots. That gets my skills leveled but isn't fun.

Jeremy · May 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

On a 1-5 skill bar system, you are essentially stuck boring yourself with the same 5 skills or reducing your effectiveness to add in a few other things.

Make the skill bar 1-9 and the game gets 2x as fun. Any active/support skill would just mean my captain obvious "Crystal Shards, Rune Prison, Bolt Escape, Volcanic Rune, Mutagen" would have to be replaced.

1-5 skill bar system is the worst design choice in this game and leveling skills is total dredge because of it. I learned if I just put Rune Prison on both bars, I can have 4 crap skills and just hold roots. That gets my skills leveled but isn't fun.

If you take into account both bars, you can use 10 skills at a time with 2 ultimate abilities. That's quite a bit of options and I think allows you to create some rather complex rotations.

So I believe you are exaggerating the simplicity of this game's combat. It offers a lot of freedom and doesn't steer you into a certain skill set like most other games do. It also allows you to combine up to 12 different abilities which is sufficient - at least in my opinion.

So I think it's cleverly designed and accomplishes its goal.

Erotes · May 2014

I don't get why all these ppl are getting thrown off by the OP's point. You guys need to learn how to read. I totally agree that the skill system is designed poorly and despite what anyone says, the FACT that you max the few primary class skills out so early in the game makes questing terrible.

If we had more build specific skills to improve and more interesting skills to play, questing might not be such a bore.

Oh and everyone who talks about "explore more, it's fun." Yeah, it's not. The idea of starting the game over again and "exploring" more makes me sad. Perhaps if the game was designed to be free roaming as apposed to linear, than it might be fun. Right now vet lvl questing is simply a tedious grind.

mattijs.buysb16_ESO · May 2014

Erotes wrote: »

I don't get why all these ppl are getting thrown off by the OP's point. You guys need to learn how to read. I totally agree that the skill system is designed poorly and despite what anyone says, the FACT that you max the few primary class skills out so early in the game makes questing terrible.

That's why we need:

mattijs.buysb16_ESO wrote: »

more allround supportskills, passives and or perhaps even an extra morpf or 2 on the same skill which can only be lvled at VR content. So there is still need for going through that content.

Don't get me wrong...just as most repliers in their mids, I love the game in every aspect as it is atm. 2 thumbs up for every dev of the game!!!
But what's the point of going beyond 50 is there's nothing to be gained.
hopefully they plan on doing so in further expansions...

Milanna · May 2014

I love playing this game.