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· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
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DK Bash nerf for PVE is unacceptable
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ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »Would someone clarify for me how 'bash' works?
I hold the right mouse button to block, right? And then I attack with the left mouse button, right?
Can't I bash with every weapon? Like, with those sharp pointy daggers?penguinlaraub17_ESO wrote: »Second, you built your char around a broken ability and didn't expect it to get changed? Seriously?
U are so funny, when i paid a subscription there was no information that this game is in beta state, also there was no info that bash is broken. I paid for finished product so why should i expect that they will change rules after 2 months by nerf for bash dmg -70%?
Your argument is rlly idiotic. At game begining i lost my stuff coz of bank bug, you should to say "you put your items to the broken bank system and didnt expect that u will lost your ***?"
Seriously? are u so limited to use so stupid arguments?
When you paid for the subscription you also accepted Eula and terms of use which means Zeni can change and do whatever they want with the game.
Also be ready to get dissapointed in every mmo you will play if you don't accept the fact that broken/op things will (usually) be fixed sooner or later.
We also paid for a "finished" product. Not a buggy ass game that feels like its still in the beta stage with how obvious some of these bugs are.
No. You paid for a product. Finished was never included in the item you bought. Having played MMO's since the late 90's, this is a very common misconception for those players who just start.
The fact that the game is always in production is one of the positive sides. Unlike a single player game, like Skyrim, ESO can stay 'in production' for 10+ years, with usually two expansions a year. The end result in a game like World of Warcraft or Everquest, is a game that looks dated, but has more content than most players will ever be able to get to.
Another common misconception for new MMO players is 'renting'. You are renting your character. You didn't buy anything, really. From the client to your characters to all the items you get (sometimes, even to the box itself, ala EvE online), nothing is actually yours. You don't pay the company to keep producing. You pay the company to be allowed to play with their toys.
Two common misconceptions about the MMO world that should be clarified often.
Okay, sure buddy.
Why not just release Alpha builds and call it done?0 -
moskilSoul Shrivenruze84b14_ESO wrote: »Would someone clarify for me how 'bash' works?
I hold the right mouse button to block, right? And then I attack with the left mouse button, right?
Can't I bash with every weapon? Like, with those sharp pointy daggers?
Yep, u right.
U can use any weapon for bash, doesnt matter if u use staff, dual daggers or sword+shield. All of them make almost the same effect - block+hit.
Before patch if u used 1h+shield then u made much higher dmg as with other weapons. For no its doesnt matter with weapon will u use coz block effect and dmg is almost the same. Thats why all builds sword+shield have no sense now1 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭davidafox79_ESO wrote: »My weapon with a 1h does little to no damage so bash was the only reasonable way I could survive soloing while questing. This nerf I died after my 2nd pull. Didn't realize you TOTALLY killed the DPS of bash. I consider this unacceptable and is a deal breaker for me. I thought this game wasn't just going to cater to PVP. WOW2.0?
I never used bash on my DK all the way thru to VR10 in PTS or live, for anything but an interrupt. It's now doing what it was meant to do
. -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.3 -
maxsterling1_ESOSoul Shrivendavidafox79_ESO wrote: »My weapon with a 1h does little to no damage so bash was the only reasonable way I could survive soloing while questing. This nerf I died after my 2nd pull. Didn't realize you TOTALLY killed the DPS of bash. I consider this unacceptable and is a deal breaker for me. I thought this game wasn't just going to cater to PVP. WOW2.0?
I see this as the knee jerk save our small pvp community from whining and hope our much larger pve community doesn't get to annoyed, been there done that since I have been playing mmo's for going on 12 years. Games that do this die quickly or go free to play and that's as good as dead to me. I don't play a DK but seeing this crap I have cancelled and am moving on. Don't feel like wasting time with games that were released 6 months before ready anyways.3 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »No. You paid for a product. Finished was never included in the item you bought.
The apologists are out in force today, lots of damage control going on.2 -
Luciusbaine✭✭Then use one of those big weapons. Or maybe two weapons!
Oh, you want to tank? Well, then tank. Why, as a tank, are you concerned with your DPS? Because that's the only thing that got changed with the Shield Bash.
Remember that comment when you stand for hours and cant find tanks for your dungeons or trials because they cant level. Then I am sure someone will tell you to L2P without tanks.
They can't level? Then how did I level? I have zero points in S&B, holy mother of... someone superglued their skills to the bar so they can't use anything else?
SB is an INTERRUPT. It's used to INTERRUPT. Not spam-bash your way to glory. It could be doing zero DPS and it would still serve its purpose as an...
...wait for it...INTERRUPT
your an **** you are obviously leveling DK and not TANK DK, should we respec every time we need to tank ... yeah its so cheap in this game. Its very hard to level as tank DK now as you are putting all your skill points into HP and other dps out put is now very low. And yes i did use Bash and was great for larger groups and no i never used any Enchants or jewels to boost it and exploit it ...
We are small enough not to be big and big enough not to be small!0 -
Luciusbaine wrote: »Then use one of those big weapons. Or maybe two weapons!
Oh, you want to tank? Well, then tank. Why, as a tank, are you concerned with your DPS? Because that's the only thing that got changed with the Shield Bash.
Remember that comment when you stand for hours and cant find tanks for your dungeons or trials because they cant level. Then I am sure someone will tell you to L2P without tanks.
They can't level? Then how did I level? I have zero points in S&B, holy mother of... someone superglued their skills to the bar so they can't use anything else?
SB is an INTERRUPT. It's used to INTERRUPT. Not spam-bash your way to glory. It could be doing zero DPS and it would still serve its purpose as an...
...wait for it...INTERRUPT
your an **** you are obviously leveling DK and not TANK DK, should we respec every time we need to tank ... yeah its so cheap in this game. Its very hard to level as tank DK now as you are putting all your skill points into HP and other dps out put is now very low. And yes i did use Bash and was great for larger groups and no i never used any Enchants or jewels to boost it and exploit it ...
Ditto.0 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭Wow this thread is funny.
With bash I was hitting around 400 dps spiking up to 800 with ultimate etc . Bash main ability with others weaves in also using now for AoE open etc
Loved it,was OP could take a pack of three consecutively for maybe 3 groups before stopping . Insane dps , better then the dps classes around me judging by the time it took them.
Now nerf. Ok I'm not mad at all. I have level AF all the way , couple of morphs to go.
Currently using whip but I need more magicka (wasn't issue before) . Still using bash (88 damage down from nearly 300) but as a low cost filler it's about the same as light attack but defensive.
Dps is now around 200 but I will improve with a morph or two and some more practice. 2 mobs are fine I am yet to test 3 but I soloed the ogre boss in Greenwood no problem .
We all need to chill out, accept the ability was not balanced and learn to play differently1 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »
That's why you have options. Not happy with your tank build for questing? Build another!
I can't heal my way through mobs while soloing, that is why I also have a DPS build using a bow, but hell I'm pretty sure I can do just about anything I want.
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Luciusbaine✭✭again you spec in Magica -> DPS abilities, havent seen any HP based dps abilitiesWe are small enough not to be big and big enough not to be small!1
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Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭U can t really think that it was working like intended, it was just stupid, i was a bash abuser too cause it was 10 times better than dw abilities. With critic bonus around 30 % and all glyph jewellry i could bash for 450-500 dmg, more than any dw abilities that required a slot. What do u think should be more deadly in real life a shield or a sword?
well i´ve never said the nerf wasn´t needed, but i´m saying that there is a difference in balancing a skill and making it completly useless as done to bash. especially when you have in mind how horrible the dmg of s&b actually is and how none existant the mitigation "advantage" and effective-debuff values it provides are.
spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »200 DPS is pitiful.
Pitiful is a strong word but it is a big drop from 400+++
Interested to know what other dps classes are doing . Also that is single target dps with no ultimate . It feels close to right just need to improve and optimise a bit more to get it right0 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
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Are you going to give me the 20k to respec? Because I don't have it, and now I can't get it because I can't kill anything.Tannakaobi wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
That's why you have options. Not happy with your tank build for questing? Build another!
I can't heal my way through mobs while soloing, that is why I also have a DPS build using a bow, but hell I'm pretty sure I can do just about anything I want.0 -
The_Drexill✭✭✭✭Bash was overpowered... now it's underpowered. They swung it too far in the other direction.Brandizzle - NB
Drexill The Unbreakable - Sorc
For teh covenant.2 -
TrueEssenceSoul ShrivenI play tank DK myself with 1h/s in PvE and I am okay with bash being nerfed in general, but I'm not okay with the amount it got nerfed.
The Cooldown is fine. As I read about it, I even expected it to be longer. I thought it was meant to stop bash from being spammed in PvE or PvP and make you use abilities between it which would have made it less of a nobrainer or an ability to burst people from 100% to 0% in PvP.
A cost increase would have been okay too, if the cost reduction glyphs would have been buffed by that amount thus making it less potent in PvP only.
A damage reduction was okay too, but the problem I have is the amount. Since there is a passive which increases the damage of bash and of BASH ONLY means, that it is meant to be skilled to do damage otherwise the passive would be pointless.
But bash with skilled passive doing less dmg than an light attack with a 1h sword which already does next to no dmg is just sad.
In my opinion this change has many problems:
- Any shield runes used got next to useless.
- In Dungeons DK Tank will still be viable, but much more boring, because one will only be taunting, hiding behind the shield and maybe cast a spell sometimes from ones "huge" magicka pool and won't be able to add relevant amounts of dmg
- It hit the community mostly unaware, meaning that for many 1h/s players there is no immediate plan B for being roughly as viable as before in PvE/Leveling since not every DK has a destro staff and some cloth armor in his backpocket and not every DK plays DK because he wants to play a "mage".
- Dungeons runs getting harder for everyone cause there will be less single target dmg with a DK tank involved.
- Some already rare (DK) Tanks will either reroll or quit playing completly.2 -
So what suggestions for a DK does anyone have for spells, spec, armor ect.... I have to re-roll because according to some on this post I don't know how to play, I'm a whiner and I need to hang and die like David Carradine.0
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davidafox79_ESO wrote: »So what suggestions for a DK does anyone have for spells, spec, armor ect.... I have to re-roll because according to some on this post I don't know how to play, I'm a whiner and I need to hang and die like David Carradine.
Cancel and try back once they get this game pass beta phase.0 -
ElvaiSoul ShrivenDont know much about the pvp aspect of bash, but has anyone noticed that you take more dmg, too while blocking? I wasnt even using bash while farming, but since the patch I do take more dmg and my stamina bar is empty in a second...seriously I like the changes to bash dmg (only viable if interrupting), but that one guy has a point. The already low tank population will be even lower...Edited by Elvai on May 23, 2014 11:38PM0
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Tpenguinlaraub17_ESO wrote: »davidafox79_ESO wrote: »So what suggestions for a DK does anyone have for spells, spec, armor ect.... I have to re-roll because according to some on this post I don't know how to play, I'm a whiner and I need to hang and die like David Carradine.
Cancel and try back once they get this game pass beta phase.
That might take a while but until then....
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Stratti✭✭✭✭✭davidafox79_ESO wrote: »So what suggestions for a DK does anyone have for spells, spec, armor ect.... I have to re-roll because according to some on this post I don't know how to play, I'm a whiner and I need to hang and die like David Carradine.
Whip is good instead - still use bash but have the abilities in there to max it out. Also get petrify for cc . There is still heaps there . Honestly though the people that built these guys for dps will go and those who are tanks will stay because all tanks spect not to be great at dps - it was short lived but fun while it lasted0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭davidafox79_ESO wrote: »So what suggestions for a DK does anyone have for spells, spec, armor ect.... I have to re-roll because according to some on this post I don't know how to play, I'm a whiner and I need to hang and die like David Carradine.
use destro staff like everyone else is the only vital pve way left.
sth like this
my DK looked like that but thx to the changes the 1h/s bar will be changed to bow as no melee attack left worth the risk to be used.
spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"1 -
moXrox✭✭✭What about dual wield with a DK ?Music Channel:
https://youtube.com/channel/UCQHvIypA0v70w4uu_ej8wyg/featured
Tolkien Fantasy Music, Medieval, Pagan & Nordic Music Style0 -
Carnage2K4✭✭✭✭HUH... so there I was getting along just fine without using bash unless it was to interrupt a charge-up... and here I now am getting along just fine only using bash to interrupt a charge-up...Human Infant Connoisseur0 -
Carnage2K4✭✭✭✭penguinlaraub17_ESO wrote: »ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »Would someone clarify for me how 'bash' works?
I hold the right mouse button to block, right? And then I attack with the left mouse button, right?
Can't I bash with every weapon? Like, with those sharp pointy daggers?penguinlaraub17_ESO wrote: »Second, you built your char around a broken ability and didn't expect it to get changed? Seriously?
U are so funny, when i paid a subscription there was no information that this game is in beta state, also there was no info that bash is broken. I paid for finished product so why should i expect that they will change rules after 2 months by nerf for bash dmg -70%?
Your argument is rlly idiotic. At game begining i lost my stuff coz of bank bug, you should to say "you put your items to the broken bank system and didnt expect that u will lost your ***?"
Seriously? are u so limited to use so stupid arguments?
When you paid for the subscription you also accepted Eula and terms of use which means Zeni can change and do whatever they want with the game.
Also be ready to get dissapointed in every mmo you will play if you don't accept the fact that broken/op things will (usually) be fixed sooner or later.
We also paid for a "finished" product. Not a buggy ass game that feels like its still in the beta stage with how obvious some of these bugs are.
No. You paid for a product. Finished was never included in the item you bought. Having played MMO's since the late 90's, this is a very common misconception for those players who just start.
The fact that the game is always in production is one of the positive sides. Unlike a single player game, like Skyrim, ESO can stay 'in production' for 10+ years, with usually two expansions a year. The end result in a game like World of Warcraft or Everquest, is a game that looks dated, but has more content than most players will ever be able to get to.
Another common misconception for new MMO players is 'renting'. You are renting your character. You didn't buy anything, really. From the client to your characters to all the items you get (sometimes, even to the box itself, ala EvE online), nothing is actually yours. You don't pay the company to keep producing. You pay the company to be allowed to play with their toys.
Two common misconceptions about the MMO world that should be clarified often.
Okay, sure buddy.
Why not just release Alpha builds and call it done?
Wow, look at that, I just sneezed and remembered something about a week of backwards flying dragons in Skyrim that would never land months after release... yet... it was a 'finished' product...Human Infant Connoisseur0 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »
Are you going to give me the 20k to respec? Because I don't have it, and now I can't get it because I can't kill anything.Tannakaobi wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
That's why you have options. Not happy with your tank build for questing? Build another!
I can't heal my way through mobs while soloing, that is why I also have a DPS build using a bow, but hell I'm pretty sure I can do just about anything I want.
By the time you are into VR you should have plenty of skill options open to you.
If you haven't already I recommend you get the skyshards add-on. (link below) It puts a marker for each shard on your map. When you get to VR ranks you should have perfected your preferred build and should now be building up options for other skills. Or at least, that's how I look at it. If not then experiment with what you have.
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Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
✭
My character is VR1. I'd need 20+ points for a new build, and I don't have that many and we both know it's not trivial to get that many.Tannakaobi wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
Are you going to give me the 20k to respec? Because I don't have it, and now I can't get it because I can't kill anything.Tannakaobi wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
That's why you have options. Not happy with your tank build for questing? Build another!
I can't heal my way through mobs while soloing, that is why I also have a DPS build using a bow, but hell I'm pretty sure I can do just about anything I want.
By the time you are into VR you should have plenty of skill options open to you.
If you haven't already I recommend you get the skyshards add-on. (link below) It puts a marker for each shard on your map. When you get to VR ranks you should have perfected your preferred build and should now be building up options for other skills. Or at least, that's how I look at it. If not then experiment with what you have.
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Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »
My character is VR1. I'd need 20+ points for a new build, and I don't have that many and we both know it's not trivial to get that many.Tannakaobi wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
Are you going to give me the 20k to respec? Because I don't have it, and now I can't get it because I can't kill anything.Tannakaobi wrote: »Maverick827 wrote: »
That's why you have options. Not happy with your tank build for questing? Build another!
I can't heal my way through mobs while soloing, that is why I also have a DPS build using a bow, but hell I'm pretty sure I can do just about anything I want.
By the time you are into VR you should have plenty of skill options open to you.
If you haven't already I recommend you get the skyshards add-on. (link below) It puts a marker for each shard on your map. When you get to VR ranks you should have perfected your preferred build and should now be building up options for other skills. Or at least, that's how I look at it. If not then experiment with what you have.
Not trivial but possible, anyway you don't need a new build. Just change the one you have a little, tweak it to compensate. What skills do you have. Are you a DK like the op? I'm not sure.
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Akhratos✭✭✭✭Easy.
Dont build a stamina based DK.
Forget about heavy, go light. Endless magicka pool/regen + dk class skills + destro staff + single defensive skill (free spam, thanks magicka build) and youll be capping armor and doing twice the damage.
If you go for a stamina based build to boost weapon skills using 2handed/dw, well.. enjoy it if you can and dont forget to come back an share the experience.0 -
Luciusbaine✭✭the thing is i play DK because i dont like staff and magica chars (and who will be left tanking), i guess no luck for us tanks ...We are small enough not to be big and big enough not to be small!1