DK Bash nerf for PVE is unacceptable

dbennett707cub18_ESO

Please Zenimax change shield bashing back to being the highest dps AND most stamina efficient way to do said dps. Also please let everyone dual wield shields and remove the other stamina weapons from the game.

In all seriousness though, stam builds are underpowered and they've already stated they are reviewing it, but anyone could see bash spamming was absurd. The answer isn't putting bash spamming back to way the it was, instead its going to take some more fundamental changes to how the game is played and how stamina builds works, such as decoupling defensive skills like rolling and CC break from stamina altogether.

blankoster

Thanks to the NOOB Cryers in PVP the DK Tank now is a Dummy for only Taunt Spam. No DPS & No Survive based on Stamina for 1H+Shield Dk Tanks, now forced to play when Solo with Medium Armor + 2H Weapons.

After 2 months Launch:
1 Starting PvE Content Still Bugged
2 Many Skills Bugged
3 Combat Data Hidden to not show more Bugs
.
.
.
And definitely u killed my way of enjoying the Tank Play based on Stamina for DK.

Bye Bye, i won't pay anymore for this game.

moXrox

DK and complaining about a bug adjustement.....lol

DK did faceroll in pve in comparison to other classes and you guys really dare to open a thread and complaining ???

pronkg

An obviously bugged skill got fixed.

Not one DK in my clan complained about this. Everyone said it was broken and OP as hell.

I'm happy the still invincible tanks aren't able to out damage every other class as well.

Everyone knew it was coming. Building around a ridiculously OP skill was your own mistake.

McWop

davidafox79_ESO wrote: »

My weapon with a 1h does little to no damage so bash was the only reasonable way I could survive soloing while questing. This nerf I died after my 2nd pull. Didn't realize you TOTALLY killed the DPS of bash. I consider this unacceptable and is a deal breaker for me. I thought this game wasn't just going to cater to PVP. WOW2.0?

lol, you're upset you have to use the pointy end of your weapon now instead of the smoothness of your shield. How could you honestly think thats how it was supposed to work.

IIxGH0STxII

Maverick827 wrote: »

IIxGH0STxII wrote: »

Tanthul wrote: »

So you all think there was nothing wrong with doing more DPS than anything else in the game while not taking any damage at all? 1H and Shield is a defensive line. It should not do the amounts of damage it did. You are either supposed to tank or do damage. Not do both at the same time and better than anything else available while not even needing a skill slot..
So you just have to play normally now. Like everyone else. Either build as a tank and rely to others for damage output, build as a damage dealer, build one spec of each, or build a hybrid. Want to do heaps of damage to groups? Use destro staff or 2handed with class synergies. Want hybrid? Use something like resto staff with class skills. Use synergies. Most of you were so used to kill everything with the broken bash damage while taking no damage that you can't think of anything else. Well it was never supposed to be that way..Everyone else in the game not using the broken shield bash spam was experiencing the game you are experiencing now. Everyone knew bash damage would be fixed. It was at the top of the "broken" list. And I won't even mention the casting while bashing exploits...

^This

Neoklis wrote: »

Zarkaz wrote: »

Oh poor DeeKays, can't spam your way to glory now ? Good.

oh you mean no one else spams skills? Templars have that sun lance skills (w/e it's called) sorcerers spam AoEs how is one spam diff from other?
But that's not my point.. This so called "Elder Scrolls" Online, should of never been released at the time that it did. If all the skills are getting "fixed" now, they were that way in beta, no? Yes, hence why weren't they fixed before launch.
I've said this in a diff post, skill is used in a way it wasn't intended to in PvP? Adjust it in PvP not PvE, stop taking the easy way out and stop "fixing" skills in one single sweep b/c it's quicker or easier or w/e. Other games can separate the two, so should you be able to and if you are not maybe it's time to hire someone that can. I had a 90 recurring sub, just cancelled it, to show my disappointment with games current state. I hope the game will be fixed and soon.

You really think an MMO can be perfect at release? You're so wrong. It's absolutely normal that classes get balanced over time, while people play them. Same thing happens with other online games.
And I agree with what some other users said: If you play a tank with 1hand and shield, it should be normal that you won't do as much damage as a DPS. If you want to do damage, skill a second weapon line and use that. That's what the second weapon slot and ability bar is for. I feel sorry for you, if you can't play the game without exploiting a broken ability.

I feel sorry for you if you think using an ability that does damage and has a dedicated skill and dedicated enchant that increases its damage is exploiting.

It is exploiting when all you do is spamming an ability that is completely broken and absolutely not meant to work the way it does.

txfeinbergsub17_ESO

Darkro wrote: »

sorry
still killing 10 monsters at a time (and I hear they got double hp and dmg now) and no problem, so I smell baddie.

Only 10, I kill 30 at once. I smell a baddie.

lindechene

•Bashing now deals more damage on a successful interrupt, and less damage when your target is not casting an ability.

My first experience with Bash after patch 1.1.2 was that even though I used Bash on a caster while casting in progress it seemed to do almost no damage at all even though I used it correctly to interrupt.

I was running around in Stonefalls a V1 zone for Dominion veteran players as a Veteran Rank 9 in search for enchantment runes that were supposed to be now plenty around. I encountered a three enemy thieves attacking a merchant. I used bash when the red flash animation of the caster was up. He had about 5% HP left and I expected him to be dead after the bash. He remained standing with around 2% HP left.

- - -

So the question is:

How much damage in percent of total enemy HP should a successful bash interupting an enemy PVE caster do?

I hoped to see values in the area of 15-25% as a "reward" for using bash properly. And around 3-5% damages as "punishment" when bash is used without interrupting.

So what are the actual values? Has there been a bug implementing the system and bash is currently NOT correctly doing more damage when actually interrupting a spell?

Drachdhar

yodased wrote: »

oh come on, destruction and resto staffs are not "weapons" I don't know of any destro/resto person that is actually using them to auto-attack as a viable way to kill things.

Destro staff at the very least does more dmg on the "auto-attack", as you call it, than any other weapon in the game... Maybe aside from 2handers at times.
And there is no such thing as auto-attack in this game, if it requires a button press it is not "auto-anything".
And since they are listed under weapon skills, they are indeed weapon skills no matter what you think mate

ShintaiDK

Sword and Shield got 1 ability that could possible make all this ok. The pierce armour debuff. But that one is broken...

Drachdhar

moXrox wrote: »

DK and complaining about a bug adjustement.....lol

Bash was not bugged... Some people really need to learn the difference between a bug and something that was clearly just something that was OP.

dbennett707cub18_ESO wrote: »

In all seriousness though, stam builds are underpowered and they've already stated they are reviewing it, but anyone could see bash spamming was absurd. The answer isn't putting bash spamming back to way the it was, instead its going to take some more fundamental changes to how the game is played and how stamina builds works, such as decoupling defensive skills like rolling and CC break from stamina altogether.

Agreed.

I do think alot of people underestimate the damage a shield can cause. I'd rather get sliced by a sword when in full armor than properly shield bashed, using the edge of the shield. Granted, being pushed around by the flat surface area of a shield wouldnt do alot of actual damage unless the shield had spikes for piercing armor - but it could unbalance you.
A proper shield user would not consider a shield for merely defense, but as offense as well.

Lord_Hev

Solution: buff weapons so they actually do more damage and reward risky melee play-styles.


Bash nerf was good. It was completely stupid. The nerf is not the problem here. Melee being overall weak is the problem that needs to be remedied.

moskil

Simple, they didnt nerf bash builds but they totaly fu(ked them. I spend 1,5 of months to exp my char and now im fu(ked coz my char is totaly unplayable. My dmg before patch was 375dmg per hit, now is 120dmg and cost more of stamina. I have to spend all stamina to kill one standard mob. Now Bash without any perk make 60dmg, bash with +100%dmg perk make 90dmg. How the fu(k 60+100% is 90? Thats first question. Another thing, why if i wear necklace and 2 rings with +25 bash dmg each, then i make +28dmg to bash? This is so hard mathematic but 25+25+25=75 not 28. Anyway bash wasnt so OP as u think, that was good skill for one oponent and was rlly poor if u compared it with sorcer mass dmg. I killed 2 mobs with bash and in the same time sorcer is killing 6mobs. So why dont u nerf sorcers? ANYWAY i spend 1,5monts to exp my char, i dont have no strange and time to exp next char and make competitions with thousands of bots, im living this game

PVT_Parts

One Two wrote: »

davidafox79_ESO wrote: »

My weapon with a 1h does little to no damage so bash was the only reasonable way I could survive soloing while questing. This nerf I died after my 2nd pull. Didn't realize you TOTALLY killed the DPS of bash. I consider this unacceptable and is a deal breaker for me. I thought this game wasn't just going to cater to PVP. WOW2.0?

most OP class...got buffed in the patch...but your crying about bash?
oh dear...i will un-sub if someone listens to you and changes it specifically for you DKs.

First off, this isn't a DK post. He may be a DK, but that doesn't effect his effectiveness of using the bash tactic. Everyone could use it so it was balanced. Besides, they didn't buff any DK skills. And DK being the strongest class? Funny how the top 40 players in Cyrodill are sorcerers if the strongest class is DK.

MrBeatDown

moskil wrote: »

Simple, they didnt nerf bash builds but they totaly fu(ked them. I spend 1,5 of months to exp my char and now im fu(ked coz my char is totaly unplayable. My dmg before patch was 375dmg per hit, now is 120dmg and cost more of stamina. I have to spend all stamina to kill one standard mob. Now Bash without any perk make 60dmg, bash with +100%dmg perk make 90dmg. How the fu(k 60+100% is 90? Thats first question. Another thing, why if i wear necklace and 2 rings with +25 bash dmg each, then i make +28dmg to bash? This is so hard mathematic but 25+25+25=75 not 28. Anyway bash wasnt so OP as u think, that was good skill for one oponent and was rlly poor if u compared it with sorcer mass dmg. I killed 2 mobs with bash and in the same time sorcer is killing 6mobs. So why dont u nerf sorcers? ANYWAY i spend 1,5monts to exp my char, i dont have no strange and time to exp next char and make competitions with thousands of bots, im living this game

That's right, Sorcs are OP and need to be nerfed. All AOE damage needs to be nerfed. Aoe should not be over 400 damage tops. That will equalize the game.

Creslian7

I could out dps any other weapon line with bash pre nerf in PVE. It was overpowered. Bash should only be used for interupts and that is what they did, they brought it to where it needs to be. There was no point to use any other melee weapon line, 1h/s provided the best offensive and defensive abilities out of all other stamina lines.

moskil wrote: »

Simple, they didnt nerf bash builds but they totaly fu(ked them. I spend 1,5 of months to exp my char and now im fu(ked coz my char is totaly unplayable. My dmg before patch was 375dmg per hit, now is 120dmg and cost more of stamina. I have to spend all stamina to kill one standard mob. Now Bash without any perk make 60dmg, bash with +100%dmg perk make 90dmg. How the fu(k 60+100% is 90? Thats first question. Another thing, why if i wear necklace and 2 rings with +25 bash dmg each, then i make +28dmg to bash? This is so hard mathematic but 25+25+25=75 not 28. Anyway bash wasnt so OP as u think, that was good skill for one oponent and was rlly poor if u compared it with sorcer mass dmg. I killed 2 mobs with bash and in the same time sorcer is killing 6mobs. So why dont u nerf sorcers? ANYWAY i spend 1,5monts to exp my char, i dont have no strange and time to exp next char and make competitions with thousands of bots, im living this game

Sorry dude, you'll have to spend your magica on something other than spamming talons so you can bash people from the rear now. I hear that DKs have 3 full lines with magica abilites, some even do aoe damage and good single target damage, (it's not a rumor). And recently discovered there are other melee lines that do damage, they involve the use of weapons and don't give the benefit of hiding behind block, so they may be more difficult to use.

I am also glad you are "living the game" very few people role play anymore and you sir to role play in real life as if you were living in Tamriel shows how exceptional you are. The other passengers of your shortbus should be proud.

Kohd1999

If bash was like it is right now when the game launched, nobody would have ever questioned it. But people got used to a fun (because overpowered) playstyle and want it back. I don't blame them, but it won't happen. Give out free respecs and be done with this nonsense.

RomedyMC

I am a VR6 DK tank with S&B. I spammed bash when I could in PvE.

It was OP and broken and needed the nerf.

The only difference I experience now is a fight of 3+ mobs requiring a bit more time to kill and a little more maneuvering on my part to avoid taking so much damage.

Seriously.... Stop crying and start using the other skills you have.

Edit: added level since everyone was going to ask.

Drachdhar

Btw.. Sorc as a class do not have alot of AOE, especially not good AOE.

Top players in my campaign are not sorcs... The player who has 2 million more points than the second place is a DK. Granted, those extra points are due to him farming points as emperor.

RomedyMC

moskil wrote: »

Simple, they didnt nerf bash builds but they totaly fu(ked them. I spend 1,5 of months to exp my char and now im fu(ked coz my char is totaly unplayable. My dmg before patch was 375dmg per hit, now is 120dmg and cost more of stamina. I have to spend all stamina to kill one standard mob. Now Bash without any perk make 60dmg, bash with +100%dmg perk make 90dmg. How the fu(k 60+100% is 90? Thats first question. Another thing, why if i wear necklace and 2 rings with +25 bash dmg each, then i make +28dmg to bash? This is so hard mathematic but 25+25+25=75 not 28. Anyway bash wasnt so OP as u think, that was good skill for one oponent and was rlly poor if u compared it with sorcer mass dmg. I killed 2 mobs with bash and in the same time sorcer is killing 6mobs. So why dont u nerf sorcers? ANYWAY i spend 1,5monts to exp my char, i dont have no strange and time to exp next char and make competitions with thousands of bots, im living this game

First of all...either English is not your native language or you have no businses on this forum. I'll go with the former.

Second, you built your char around a broken ability and didn't expect it to get changed? Seriously?

IIxGH0STxII

RomedyMC wrote: »

I am a VR6 DK tank with S&B. I spammed bash when I could in PvE.

It was OP and broken and needed the nerf.

The only difference I experience now is a fight of 3+ mobs requiring a bit more time to kill and a little more maneuvering on my part to avoid taking so much damage.

Seriously.... Stop crying and start using the other skills you have.

Edit: added level since everyone was going to ask.

^I like this guy.

Tankqull

Drachdhar wrote: »

Btw.. Sorc as a class do not have alot of AOE, especially not good AOE.

Top players in my campaign are not sorcs... The player who has 2 million more points than the second place is a DK. Granted, those extra points are due to him farming points as emperor.

well DK AP numbers are highly inflated by the fact that they combined 90% of the formerly uncapped AOEs in this one class and thus making them much stronger than anyone else in AvA. if the meta is´nt changed heavily the next campain phase will see 80-90% sorcs within the top 100 broken up by a few healing templars, dedicated solo NBs and a handfull of DKs.

Drachenfier

RomedyMC wrote: »

I am a VR6 DK tank with S&B. I spammed bash when I could in PvE.

It was OP and broken and needed the nerf.

I used to do that with Biting Jabs, only i'd kill packs of mobs. Does that make it OP and broken?

Whether any of you want to admit or not, a shield is a weapon. Shields, when used as weapons, do damage. 1h/s line, without bash, was already absolutely terrible. Now, bash is completely *** useless, costs stamina and does less damage than any generic light attack, which is just moronic. If they hadn't intended for shield to be used offensively, they shouldn't have included a passive to buff shield bash damage.

What they should have done, was nerf the bash glyphs. Instead, they took the typical Mythic dev approach and sledgehammered the *** out of it without any testing.

MrBeatDown

All players in this game should suffer a nerf due to this. Top dps on all characters should be capped at 200dps. THat levels the playing field and there is no more op builds. Then we can finally create our builds.

davidafox79_ESO

Now that I have slept on it and I'm past super angry pis%ed off spewing venom. I'm as I posted I'm a dk tank 1h and shield. I need advice on how to kill 3 mobs without dying in the now over powered vr5 zone. I didn't level anything else because I was oblivious to everyone else because as I've stated I'm not anywhere near hard core.

Mykah

I'm still leveling my NB, he's vr5 now and doing just fine. I've used 2h as his main weapon his entire life.

The DK qq saying the Bash fix gimped them, please, learn to play. You have a long way to go, its not the game's fault, really.

Tankqull

davidafox79_ESO wrote: »

Now that I have slept on it and I'm past super angry pis%ed off spewing venom. I'm as I posted I'm a dk tank 1h and shield. I need advice on how to kill 3 mobs without dying in the now over powered vr5 zone.

use another wepon line.
flame breath+firewall+pulse+volcanic rune still does well (its hard but doable vs impossible with 1h+s) even vs current overpowered mobs. you´ll use mana-potions like drops but who cares ^^

davidafox79_ESO

Mykah wrote: »

I'm still leveling my NB, he's vr5 now and doing just fine. I've used 2h as his main weapon his entire life.

The DK qq saying the Bash fix gimped them, please, learn to play. You have a long way to go, its not the game's fault, really.

I am dying to 3 mobs every time now. I never died before so I was gimped to some extent right?

davidafox79_ESO

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

davidafox79_ESO wrote: »

Now that I have slept on it and I'm past super angry pis%ed off spewing venom. I'm as I posted I'm a dk tank 1h and shield. I need advice on how to kill 3 mobs without dying in the now over powered vr5 zone.

use another wepon line.
flame breath+firewall+pulse+volcanic rune still does well (its hard but doable vs impossible with 1h+s) even vs current overpowered mobs. you´ll use mana-potions like drops but who cares ^^

I have fire breath and volcanic rune. is fire wall under 2h staff and where is pulse?

joshisanonymous

@davidafox79_ESO

davidafox79_ESO wrote: »

I used bash to interrupt spell casting. I used my other DK skills to kill stuff. Using a shield made damage less for survivability but by no means did I kill stuff in 10 seconds unless it is a mob at a lower level than me. I got to VR5 without doing any of this stuff so I wouldn't be as mad if they made it hard throughout so I could have got used to something else or I might have played another toon. I can't go back and level other weapon skills because lower level mobs don't level anything. I tried today. I'm now stuck with what I chose and I'm not happy with that. I won't be able to progress without help. I didn't join this game to do that. I like the cross eyed and drooling play style. I am not hard core. I like to have fun not bust out an abacus to play a game. I would love to get a healing staff to level 50. It would help. Wish I could kill some mobs to level one.

Maybe someone already responded with this, but I have advice for leveling another weapon set. Most experience does not come from killing mobs, it comes from turning in quests. Furthermore, only what you have equipped at the moment that you turn in the quest receives this experience. So, if you feel stuck and unable to level up another weapon because all the mobs that you face are too difficult when using an an unleveled weapon, fight them using your leveled weapon, then equip the other weapon when you go to turn in the quest. You should get to around level 30 in no time, and at that point it would be hard to argue that the new weapon is unusable. Although I feel you're overstating how hard it is to fight with unleveled weapons (I can easily kill VR1 mobs with an unleveled resto-staff, for instance), hopefully my suggestions will give you another option and make your play experience a bit nicer.

I feel this may be your first MMO, also. I can understand the surprise if you're used to playing single player Elder Scrolls games or something as those never change. MMOs are a different thing, though. You're in the game with other players and will inevitably be affected by their experiences, and they by yours. In this instance, shield bash was awesome for you, but it was completely destroying the experience for those who were PvPing. Hence, it gets fixed for PvP and unfortunately changes your experience in PvE. That doesn't mean that all is lost, however, and you may even find yourself in the other position in this scenario in the future. This is just how MMOs work. They change and you adapt. If you want a game that won't change, your only option really is to play a single player game, I'm sorry to say. However, I hope you stick around and get over the shock of this particular change, as I do for all the others who are freaking out in this thread.