Have the bots won?

teox76 · May 2014

Yes

zaria wrote: »

teox76 wrote: »

To all the people for which "I do not see many of them = So it's a non-issue": the huge problem is really that. The game client is so unsecured and hackable that bots can run at such a speed, fly, teleport or be underground that you don't even see them. What you see it's the node you were harvesting disappearing tough. What you (don't) see are the resources you are no more able to gather (I haven't seen an Aspect rune in ages).

Then why are we seeing bot trains as they are so fast we can not see them?
Why do we see bots doing stupid things like running against a rock if they can teleport? why don't they have 100k damage and health and why is this not used by cheating players? Why do we see bots who harvest if they are underground?

No reason to create imaginary bots. Nodes disappear because of phasing bugs, yes it can be an bot in another phase, however they happen inside cities to next to crafting stations, hardly an good place for bots to farm.

Because not all bots are created equal, I guess. Bots are being used by very different categories of "gentlemen", from the spoiled script kiddy to the professional gold-seller company, so some heterogeneity in bots used, which I think needs a different degree of knowledge to be run, can be expected.

Leesha · May 2014

Yes

zaria wrote: »

teox76 wrote: »

To all the people for which "I do not see many of them = So it's a non-issue": the huge problem is really that. The game client is so unsecured and hackable that bots can run at such a speed, fly, teleport or be underground that you don't even see them. What you see it's the node you were harvesting disappearing tough. What you (don't) see are the resources you are no more able to gather (I haven't seen an Aspect rune in ages).

Then why are we seeing bot trains as they are so fast we can not see them?
Why do we see bots doing stupid things like running against a rock if they can teleport? why don't they have 100k damage and health and why is this not used by cheating players? Why do we see bots who harvest if they are underground?

No reason to create imaginary bots. Nodes disappear because of phasing bugs, yes it can be an bot in another phase, however they happen inside cities to next to crafting stations, hardly an good place for bots to farm.

There are several different bot programs. Some are smarter than others. Bots purchased by players are virtually undetectable and once they are busted, the bot program gets hotfixed. The overseas gold farmers are using the bare minimum to get the most gold/resources as fast as possible before they get caught. A simple google search will assist you in educating yourself about bot programs and how easy they are to get, use and hide.

The player wants to hide his ToS violation because he values his account while the overseas gold farmer takes no actions to hide his actions since accounts are disposable to him.

I have no idea how some of you have not seen the masses of bots. You can play ignorant and pretend they don't exist or you can take a sightseeing stroll around Bleakrock (for example) and see what the rest of us have been seeing. There are hundreds of videos on youtube of steady streams of bots at wayshrines, in dungeons and farming quest areas. The proof is all around you.

temjiu · May 2014

No

Problem is they aren't killing it at the source.

the source in this case is the reason people do it. The reason people do it is Bethesda made important aspects of the game rely heavily on gold...and then made gold a non common resource. it takes work and time to get the gold needed to do things in this game. This is not a bad thing in general folks, don't get me wrong. but it is an environment that Botters thrive in. Other MMO's learned this through painful experience.

Thus a market is created. other games I play currently (at the same time) have gotten the point, and eliminated the market. Take Marvel Heroes as an example. outside of their f2p model, they made in game currency essentially invalid as a resource. you don't get anything in game that is game impacting with money. it's all through personal play, or the game store (which is the f2p aspect).

There is nothing for the botters to clamp onto. most the important gear is bound when you get it, so you can't sell it anyways. most their vendors in game allow exchanges and conversions, so a botter would have nothing to sell.

SECOND REASON:

Open UI. Plain and simple. you let players in to tinker with the games interface, you open yourself up to a huge amount of hacking. add into that the game has so many glitches in it that allow for unpredictable gameplay (recent porting/farming trend is an example), and its a field ripe for Botters to thrive in. I'm not against Add-ons...I Know there's a huge community for it. But It's comparable to leaving your doors unlocked. you'd better have one helluva security team to guard that place, because eventually you're going to get people in there you don't want. Or you can do what 3/4 of the other MMO's now do...you lock your doors. No Add-ons.

I hate the botters in this game. Hate them enough that I ignore anyone that I know actually bought from them. And I hope guilds kick them when they find out. but I can see why they would do it. it's not that hard to understand. Bethesda CREATED a prime environment with their design. It's pretty obvious that they're lack of experience with MMO's (and the underground environment that exists with MMO's) is showing through. This game has the perfect design to breed botters and gold sellers, not the other way around.

Solution is simple as well. anything of consequence is bind on pickup. rare items (green and above) are bind on equip. reduce costs for in game items now that currently cost gold, and establish either level requirements (horses as an example), or Cooldowns (skill resets). if you kill any reason people would want to have gold, you'll kill any reason botters have to sell it. If you need to, reduce the current money we make. that way whatever is left to use it for (repairs, waypoint ports, etc) still is enough control for the market.

Other games have realized this. This is an MMO lesson that I thought they would have been able to grasp. Hope they learn fast, it can and probably will kill the game if they don't.

Unfortunately, I mis-clicked no instead of yes. needed more coffee this morning! but 1 vote won't kill the trend im seeing with the poll.

OFC_it · May 2014

Yes

If you had bots getting alchemy mats and you had an unlimited supply of potions, You could kick some serious butt. If I was in charge of a big time pvp guild and wanted to win, That is how I would do it. Who has time in pvp to go pick flowers (that aren't there because the enemy has botted all of yours).

zaria · May 2014

teox76 wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

teox76 wrote: »

To all the people for which "I do not see many of them = So it's a non-issue": the huge problem is really that. The game client is so unsecured and hackable that bots can run at such a speed, fly, teleport or be underground that you don't even see them. What you see it's the node you were harvesting disappearing tough. What you (don't) see are the resources you are no more able to gather (I haven't seen an Aspect rune in ages).

Then why are we seeing bot trains as they are so fast we can not see them?
Why do we see bots doing stupid things like running against a rock if they can teleport? why don't they have 100k damage and health and why is this not used by cheating players? Why do we see bots who harvest if they are underground?

No reason to create imaginary bots. Nodes disappear because of phasing bugs, yes it can be an bot in another phase, however they happen inside cities to next to crafting stations, hardly an good place for bots to farm.

Because not all bots are created equal, I guess. Bots are being used by very different categories of "gentlemen", from the spoiled script kiddy to the professional gold-seller company, so some heterogeneity in bots used, which I think needs a different degree of knowledge to be run, can be expected.

Yes, I have noticed one group who operated in high level areas and now in veteran zones, recognizable as they have random worlds as names, one is "an alien probe", saw the same bots in reapers marsh where they was stuck in a hillside.

In VR1 they was busy dying and resurrecting, one did not come back, probably out of gems. Might be an player multiboxing even.

Mitrenga · May 2014

Yes

Imho, next month is very critical for ZOS. As many of us believe in this project, there are also many people share the idea that the game is not exactly what's been promised before the launch.

Not every single man-woman has the entire day to play a game, people have very limited time. For this limited gaming time, ESO has way too many rivals. A couple AAA games will be released in the coming months and then only the most loyal will continue their sub. I'm not sure how can it be a benefit for all parties. To prevent this, please make the necessary implementations which can slow down the bots and spammers, because the lore and the idea is simply beautiful, don't let this game and the fans down.

GreySix · May 2014

Yes

Mitrenga wrote: »

Imho, next month is very critical for ZOS. As many of us believe in this project, there are also many people share the idea that the game is not exactly what's been promised before the launch.

Have to admit - having a similar feeling that lots of folks are sitting on the fence, giving ZOS the benefit of the doubt to see what they'll do with just a little more time.

zaria · May 2014

Leesha wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

teox76 wrote: »

To all the people for which "I do not see many of them = So it's a non-issue": the huge problem is really that. The game client is so unsecured and hackable that bots can run at such a speed, fly, teleport or be underground that you don't even see them. What you see it's the node you were harvesting disappearing tough. What you (don't) see are the resources you are no more able to gather (I haven't seen an Aspect rune in ages).

Then why are we seeing bot trains as they are so fast we can not see them?
Why do we see bots doing stupid things like running against a rock if they can teleport? why don't they have 100k damage and health and why is this not used by cheating players? Why do we see bots who harvest if they are underground?

No reason to create imaginary bots. Nodes disappear because of phasing bugs, yes it can be an bot in another phase, however they happen inside cities to next to crafting stations, hardly an good place for bots to farm.

There are several different bot programs. Some are smarter than others. Bots purchased by players are virtually undetectable and once they are busted, the bot program gets hotfixed. The overseas gold farmers are using the bare minimum to get the most gold/resources as fast as possible before they get caught. A simple google search will assist you in educating yourself about bot programs and how easy they are to get, use and hide.

The player wants to hide his ToS violation because he values his account while the overseas gold farmer takes no actions to hide his actions since accounts are disposable to him.

I have no idea how some of you have not seen the masses of bots. You can play ignorant and pretend they don't exist or you can take a sightseeing stroll around Bleakrock (for example) and see what the rest of us have been seeing. There are hundreds of videos on youtube of steady streams of bots at wayshrines, in dungeons and farming quest areas. The proof is all around you.

I have seen lots of bots, in the above post I describes some bots in VR1 and in Reaper Marsh.

Multiple bots in Coldharbor, the quest bot train and some groups killing mobs at the bottom of the stairs where main quest starts, this require doing some quests to unlock the areas.

Public dungeon bots in low level dungeons, not sure if they are still around in masses or did the nerf on them made the bots move to other areas.

The hollow city quest bots was all runing the same script, all the bots followed the exact same pattern even the wrong turn and then run back.

My only question is if flying / teleporting bots is still an major issue.
If so it should be far easier to remove them than the other types.

And yes player run bots will be an increasing problems.
Still an player would probably use simpler bot programming and as you say be careful not to get caught.
Also harder to catch as the character has a life in the game, its not the standard gold farming bot you can catch by studying activity logs.

temjiu · May 2014

No

Mitrenga wrote: »

Imho, next month is very critical for ZOS. As many of us believe in this project, there are also many people share the idea that the game is not exactly what's been promised before the launch.

Not every single man-woman has the entire day to play a game, people have very limited time. For this limited gaming time, ESO has way too many rivals. A couple AAA games will be released in the coming months and then only the most loyal will continue their sub. I'm not sure how can it be a benefit for all parties. To prevent this, please make the necessary implementations which can slow down the bots and spammers, because the lore and the idea is simply beautiful, don't let this game and the fans down.

I agree 100%. they will see how things turn out once the newer titles hit the shelves. I love so many aspects of this game...but the combination of bots + forced playstyles at VR levels will push me out. i have a budget for gaming, and it has to go one place or the other. Id happily continue to pay for my 2 accounts here if they killed the bots and actually added a little flexibility to the game. and cured the bugs. and balanced a few classes so we don't have groups of 10 DK's and 2 Templar healers in time trials.

we'll see what the next few months bring. Wildstar is on pre-order, so they have some competition. I prefer the overall feel of this game more...but thats only one side of a game.

Kahlar · May 2014

yes, bots have won...
never before have i seen soooooo many bots (and farming accounts)
Zen/Beth must be desperate for subscriptions to put up with this.
the bots don't hide or fake anything...
always spamming/cheating/hacking right in the open.
often in groups of 3-6 ...
soooo blatant and uncontested *sigh*

Khandi · May 2014

Yes

Kahlar wrote: »

yes, bots have won...
never before have i seen soooooo many bots (and farming accounts)
Zen/Beth must be desperate for subscriptions to put up with this.
the bots don't hide or fake anything...
always spamming/cheating/hacking right in the open.
often in groups of 3-6 ...
soooo blatant and uncontested *sigh*

They may be desperate for accounts but they lost two accounts today from me. I will only be playing until August unless some things change pretty drastically.

redwoodtreesprite · May 2014

Yes

GreySix wrote: »

Mitrenga wrote: »

Imho, next month is very critical for ZOS. As many of us believe in this project, there are also many people share the idea that the game is not exactly what's been promised before the launch.

Have to admit - having a similar feeling that lots of folks are sitting on the fence, giving ZOS the benefit of the doubt to see what they'll do with just a little more time.

We are. My husband is ready to quit right now, he is so mad about all the bots and gold spam. And he has played ES games since Arena. He loves the Elder Scrolls world. Deeply. I have been playing since Daggerfall. Dedicated most of my free time for years to Morrowind modding. We REALLY want this game to succeed. But it is a sub game, and there are others we could choose to sub to instead. If things do not get better with the bots (and gear decay) within two months, we will take a long vacation from the work this game has become.

Khandi · May 2014

Yes

redwoodtreesprite wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

Mitrenga wrote: »

Imho, next month is very critical for ZOS. As many of us believe in this project, there are also many people share the idea that the game is not exactly what's been promised before the launch.

Have to admit - having a similar feeling that lots of folks are sitting on the fence, giving ZOS the benefit of the doubt to see what they'll do with just a little more time.

We are. My husband is ready to quit right now, he is so mad about all the bots and gold spam. And he has played ES games since Arena. He loves the Elder Scrolls world. Deeply. I have been playing since Daggerfall. Dedicated most of my free time for years to Morrowind modding. We REALLY want this game to succeed. But it is a sub game, and there are others we could choose to sub to instead. If things do not get better with the bots (and gear decay) within two months, we will take a long vacation from the work this game has become.

I just unsubed two accounts today and totally feel your pain.

kieso · May 2014

No

No but we're still fighting the good fight; at this point its anyone's guess though

Lord_Draevan · May 2014

No

Yesterday I saw a group of 7-8 bots in Crow's Wood (Stonefalls), all named "xxhdfjfyu" or something similar, all Argonians, all wielding greatswords and farming the wolf mobs. It was kinda sad.

dietlime · May 2014

Yes

Khandi wrote: »

redwoodtreesprite wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

Mitrenga wrote: »

Imho, next month is very critical for ZOS. As many of us believe in this project, there are also many people share the idea that the game is not exactly what's been promised before the launch.

Have to admit - having a similar feeling that lots of folks are sitting on the fence, giving ZOS the benefit of the doubt to see what they'll do with just a little more time.

We are. My husband is ready to quit right now, he is so mad about all the bots and gold spam. And he has played ES games since Arena. He loves the Elder Scrolls world. Deeply. I have been playing since Daggerfall. Dedicated most of my free time for years to Morrowind modding. We REALLY want this game to succeed. But it is a sub game, and there are others we could choose to sub to instead. If things do not get better with the bots (and gear decay) within two months, we will take a long vacation from the work this game has become.

I just unsubed two accounts today and totally feel your pain.

Not a very good reason to quit. There are lots of things that would turn a player off to this game, but the bots in low level areas haven't impacted my gameplay at all.

I've experienced gold spam in every major MMO and they've managed to stop gold spam in the zone chats somehow, probably by manually banning people quietly.

Savinder · May 2014

Yes

I'm currently in the Bonesnap Ruins dungeon.
It's positively overrun with bots, with only one other real player beside me, and no GMs whatsoever.

Khandi · May 2014

Yes

dietlime wrote: »

Khandi wrote: »

redwoodtreesprite wrote: »

GreySix wrote: »

Mitrenga wrote: »

Imho, next month is very critical for ZOS. As many of us believe in this project, there are also many people share the idea that the game is not exactly what's been promised before the launch.

Have to admit - having a similar feeling that lots of folks are sitting on the fence, giving ZOS the benefit of the doubt to see what they'll do with just a little more time.

We are. My husband is ready to quit right now, he is so mad about all the bots and gold spam. And he has played ES games since Arena. He loves the Elder Scrolls world. Deeply. I have been playing since Daggerfall. Dedicated most of my free time for years to Morrowind modding. We REALLY want this game to succeed. But it is a sub game, and there are others we could choose to sub to instead. If things do not get better with the bots (and gear decay) within two months, we will take a long vacation from the work this game has become.

I just unsubed two accounts today and totally feel your pain.

Not a very good reason to quit. There are lots of things that would turn a player off to this game, but the bots in low level areas haven't impacted my gameplay at all.

I've experienced gold spam in every major MMO and they've managed to stop gold spam in the zone chats somehow, probably by manually banning people quietly.

Well, it wasn't the only reason but it was a large chunk of the reason. Between the bots, guilds, lack of a faction AH and a few other things that would probably inflame some people, it was a sad decision for me to make today.

Hopefully before my sub actually expires in August things will improve but I'm not counting on it.

Soloeus · May 2014

Yes

PVP Guilds who use bots and other exploit tactics such as getting to V10 within the first week from exploiting bosses DID NOT GET PUNISHED.

They still have their ill-gotten gains and every battle they win is unjust. The Botters have won because this damage cannot be reversed.

isengrimb16_ESO · May 2014

I still wish there were some way for GMs to stealth-tag bots, and for players to lynch them in very messy, spectacular ways. At least it would FEEL good. And it would be wonderful to imagine a botter's face while he's watching his bot get hanged, drawn and quartered.

Elgarr · May 2014

Yes

They say it ain't over till the fat lady sings.
Problem is she's busy doing something while letting her bots do the singing

Dagget · May 2014

Yes

And still more shenanigans. We arrive at Coldharbor to quest on our main chars and find this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIIF-3uljR0&feature=youtu.be

isengrimb16_ESO · May 2014

Just to lighten things up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFg5eWbFxEw&feature=kp

Good lord, I also found a video of robots playing musical instruments. I do hope that's a trick, and they've got MP3 players in them.

Raeph · May 2014

The real answer is the gold buyers have won. They are the true scum of the earth ruining the game. Bots are a symptom, buyers are the disease.

mikeabboudb14_ESO · May 2014

Yes

i watched them fly in coldharbor and move at speeds i could barely see yesterday. they walked through the walls in the library. it was simply amazing I was finally able to catch him and report but it took a while.

mikeabboudb14_ESO · May 2014

Yes

Phantax wrote: »

Iseke wrote: »

There are no bots at all in the veteran content, so nope they don't win.

Really? I think you need to rethink that comment. There are bots in VR zones and I'm not the only one whose seen/reported them !

there under the world, you cant see them but they are harvesting nodes. I saw a bot group die over and over yesterday in coldharbor they kept running into a wall and dying, i think, i am not sure but i think it was their intention so somehow get caught between the world. not sure...either that or they messed up the program

ShedsHisTail · May 2014

No

Saw a set of bots the other day that amused me, mainly because it was obvious someone spent some time on them.

Their names were:

Jack Jute
Jack Wood (hehe)
Jack Ore
Jack Herb

They made me laugh so much I actually didn't bother reporting them.

mikeabboudb14_ESO · May 2014

Yes

They need to get it in check seriously.

panemetcircenses · May 2014

Yes

Last time logged in I saw speed hacked underground harvester bots... when they rocket out of "F" button range in seconds reporting the things is tough to say the least. This is after the werewolf speed hack fix, with tells me that something is very wrong there. Of course, so does flying or running through the landscape, I suppose.

At this stage the botters look smarter than the devs, no offense intended. They seem to be adapting the bot tactics faster than the devs are adapting countermeasures, which is disheartening.

It might help if the Reporting menu had a specific dropdown selection to report bots, allowing GM's rapid access to the information needed to verify and ban the bots faster. The in-game /tell didn't work last time I saw a GM post to message directly, sadly, even though the announcement requested it.

ShedsHisTail · May 2014

No

Hey ZoS...
If you guys want, you can pay me like $15.00/hr to do your bot killing for you. Just, whenever I'm on I'll destroy every bot I see and even respond to players requests to kill bots.