Auction house is a must!

Phantax · May 2014

Yes EVE Online has a global auction house.
They have a megaserver (so zeni can't use that excuse) It's dynamic, easily available and it works... well !
Zenimax are just too stubborn to admit they screwed up, this game needs a 'global AH (per faction global)

Razzak · May 2014

rioinsigniab16_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

It's called buying low and selling high. A pretty basic tenant when it comes to making money Rion. And there is nothing wrong with it - long as it's done legitimately without bots or RMT.

It's not much different than buying cheap materials to craft something with and then selling it for a profit.

I never said that there was anything inherently wrong with the concept of "buying low and selling high".

But, theres a big difference between one person doing it, and LOTS of people doing it on the same products at the same time. And when the latter happens, that's when problems occur. See various articles on stock market bubbles and crashes.

There is not a simple answer to managing an economy. If there was then such things wouldn't occur. However, real life proves that over-supply in ANY ONE market (e.g. a global AH) can sometimes be disastrous unless there is some way to balance out that over supply.

LOTS of people doing this is what makes this work in reality. The way to balance supply is to introduce more demand. Meaning entice players to also buy, not just sell.

Alfa_Lobo · May 2014

There should be an auction house. I do like the idea of a Faction style auction house that would be really interesting to see the differences statically among the factions on what items are being sold and for prices.

Reasons that i feel are important are:
1. even with a trade chat(if im understanding it right, that the chat box would have its own tab where people could go to sell items but keep it the same with having to type it out) personally, I do not want to have to continuously type out WTS [item] over and over and over until someone finally buys it 3 hours later(being optimistic here)....when i could easily put it up for auction and go on questing, leveling and getting more loot. I did not buy the game to stand around wanting to sell goods in town.
2. (I have no experience with the guild system in the game and from what i have read it seems that it is the closes to an "auction house" in game, of course you have to be apart of the guild, so its all internal. i could be completely wrong) Anyways, i do not understand the guild system( and im not talking about the mage, fighter, etc.) and i am not going to join a random group of people just so i can feel good about myself. If i am going to join a guild its because i connect with the people and agree with how they are playing or have became friends. I do not thing its fair that someone should be forced to join a guild just so they can make more money. if that is the case then let me open up my own in game store where i can place my items for sale and sell my own goods; i don't need a corporation.
3. When it comes down to people talking about how the prices are going to be up and down or over priced etc. that is called supply and demand...you do not have to buy that good if you and after a few days that good should be taken off the market and the person forced to resubmit it. Same for the people that are putting up the good if you want to make money, like any good sale, put it cheaper than your competition. i am sure someone will go cheaper than you and the price will decline until someone feels it to cheap and it will find a middle point. Either way, you will control your own prices, it just depends on how greedy you want to be. A way they could fix the from the auction house being flooded by the same piece of gear by 1000 people is instead of bind on equip, but have it as bind on pickup depending on level of gear(green, blue, purple, gold) or something along those lines i will let you debate that one or how, or maybe even let the market get flooded. Mostly, i would like to see the crafting items being able to be sold on the auction house rather than the NPC, some of the items go for 0 when selling them back, but a player has to buy it from them for 19+g....seems a little odd. when i deconstruct weapons and get random items to craft new goods the stuff i do not want should still have a price. and i know there is a player out there is willing buy 100 of them for the right price.

As we have read before there are many games out there that have an Auction House and they are doing very well...WOW being most prominent. ESO has the potential and the fan support to be as good or better, but they also have to remember that not every player wants to be part of a random guild and they should be able to get their gear that is crafted and looted out to others without spending countless hours doing "nothing" but trying to sell goods while standing in town reading line after line of chat in hopes someone would buy their goods.

Vendersleigh · May 2014

lavendercat wrote: »

Haxer wrote: »

please please please do NOT add an auction house.

AH's are the death of real looting and crafting. All the gear you could ever want isn't out there in the world, it's in town right at your finger tips. It makes gold the only commodity, much to the delight of gold bot's because gold is that much more valuable and can get you any gear in the game.

for the love of Akatosh, do NOT add an AH.

i never really thought about it before but i actually agree with this. in wow, there are people who just sit in the AH buying up mats and reselling them. it doesnt really sit well with the whole ESO thing which should be about exploring and doing stuff in the world.

(thats just my personal preference anyway, that people should be out in the world doing stuff)

Very true. An Auction House does not fit this game.

ForTheRealm · May 2014

I am devoted crafter and to do it I rely on exchanging (selling, buying) items. I am currently veteran and a member of so called "trading" guilds. Unfortunately I see this set-up as a pretty ineffective. I believe it is due the fact of limitation of number and diversity of people being part of such guilds. They are mostly at similar level and need to buy/sell similar items, and in consequence there are items which are of high need and some stocking up. So I often end-up selling or buying by using chat.
I would definitely prefer a high liquidity world-wide market with a large number of suppliers and buyers.
If this is a problem to develop a proper Auction House, I think that some dedicated trade channels might serve as a "quick and dirty" solution.

Orizuru · May 2014

Jeremy wrote: »

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

Especially when you consider that we as players have zero ways of slowing the production of an item when a surplus exists. Since we can't stop producing those items, the best solution is to have multiple, individual markets where you can shift a surplus.

You are back on this theory of yours about infinite item production and inevitable market saturation I see.

Firstly items do not just magically appear infinitely on the market NaciremaDiputs. Players have to go out and find them/craft them and then put them up for sale. This takes time and effort and doesn't just automatically happen.

There also needs to be a demand for the item - else people aren't going to bother posting them to begin with. So when demand dries up, so will the sell of these items. So there is no need to have separate markets to shift surpluses around. Supply and demand will eventually get rid of any surplus on the market on its own.

And you're still parroting how supply & demand will just allow everything to work out fine without providing a single explanation as to how it will do so.

alanspurlock_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

In other words: you say things that are easily disproven simple by looking at the reality of things. And you offer no examples or evidence to back up your claims that auction houses create worthless economies. There are simply too many successful MMORPGs out there that prove you wrong.

I do have to agree with you.

It's smart to make claims and back it with sources.

Not so smart... when people just spill out un-backed claims with opinionated statements.

I mean.. it's one of the first things they teach you in English class in elementary.. It's not "This sucks" it's "I think this sucks because....."

It works both ways though. Straw man arguments and confirmation bias make for an equally worthless debate.

Drachenfier · May 2014

lavendercat wrote: »

Haxer wrote: »

please please please do NOT add an auction house.

AH's are the death of real looting and crafting. All the gear you could ever want isn't out there in the world, it's in town right at your finger tips. It makes gold the only commodity, much to the delight of gold bot's because gold is that much more valuable and can get you any gear in the game.

for the love of Akatosh, do NOT add an AH.

i never really thought about it before but i actually agree with this. in wow, there are people who just sit in the AH buying up mats and reselling them. it doesnt really sit well with the whole ESO thing which should be about exploring and doing stuff in the world.

(thats just my personal preference anyway, that people should be out in the world doing stuff)

There's already been several posts by a guy in this game who does exactly that with guild stores.

Jeremy · May 2014

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

And you're still parroting how supply & demand will just allow everything to work out fine without providing a single explanation as to how it will do so.

Except that I did. I went into detail and explained to you why. Here, I'll repeat it for you:

There also needs to be a demand for the item - else people aren't going to bother posting them to begin with. So when demand dries up, so will the sell of these items. So there is no need to have separate markets to shift surpluses around. Supply and demand will eventually get rid of any surplus on the market on its own.
-
In other words: if a surplus does occur and the amount of items on the market exceed the demand - people are going to stop buying them. Suppliers will stop selling them. Surplus on the market dwindles away as a result.

The problem with your theory is it assumes every item a player acquires magically appears on the market and creates an infinite surplus since this is a video game and items can be produced without limit. But that doesn't happen. You skip the part where players have to actually market the item - and that requires demand.

Hurbster · May 2014

No Auction House makes as much sense as no bank in Ebonheart.

Drachenfier · May 2014

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

NaciremaDiputs wrote: »

Especially when you consider that we as players have zero ways of slowing the production of an item when a surplus exists. Since we can't stop producing those items, the best solution is to have multiple, individual markets where you can shift a surplus.

You are back on this theory of yours about infinite item production and inevitable market saturation I see.

Firstly items do not just magically appear infinitely on the market NaciremaDiputs. Players have to go out and find them/craft them and then put them up for sale. This takes time and effort and doesn't just automatically happen.

There also needs to be a demand for the item - else people aren't going to bother posting them to begin with. So when demand dries up, so will the sell of these items. So there is no need to have separate markets to shift surpluses around. Supply and demand will eventually get rid of any surplus on the market on its own.

And you're still parroting how supply & demand will just allow everything to work out fine without providing a single explanation as to how it will do so.

alanspurlock_ESO wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

In other words: you say things that are easily disproven simple by looking at the reality of things. And you offer no examples or evidence to back up your claims that auction houses create worthless economies. There are simply too many successful MMORPGs out there that prove you wrong.

I do have to agree with you.

It's smart to make claims and back it with sources.

Not so smart... when people just spill out un-backed claims with opinionated statements.

I mean.. it's one of the first things they teach you in English class in elementary.. It's not "This sucks" it's "I think this sucks because....."

It works both ways though. Straw man arguments and confirmation bias make for an equally worthless debate.

Supply and demand is one of those beautiful things that regulates itself. But I'll explain it, in very simple terms, for probably the 100th time, so that you can stop posting these middle school questions and statements:

When supply exceeds demand, prices fall. When demand exceeds supply, prices rise. I don't care what part of the world you live in, or what game you're playing, or if someone in your family trades on Venus, this will always be the case. Always.

When you limit the supply by creating tiny, isolated local markets, such as what we have right now in ESO, you artificially inflate prices. The only people that are in favor of this are those that want to continue to charge more than an item is worth so that they can make money, by gouging their fellow players.

Mix · May 2014

I have had a lot of trouble finding a decent trade guild. Most advertise 500 members but them at most I see 50 active ones:(

I think the BIGGEST thing hindering guild stores right now is the lack of a word search. If I want to look for a crafting material I can select "materials" but it puts every damn item in the store on that list (how is cooked food a material??). A keyword search would be great and I am sure it would help. As well as some sort of way to specify vet levels for gear searches. (Unless I haven't figured that out yet..) So far I just put 50 as the minimum level but this will get cumbersome as more people get into vet levels and start posting vet gear.

Khandi · May 2014

jircris11 wrote: »

and there we mmos out before WoW that had all the same, EQ and UO come to mind. So WoW in its self is a clone of another game.
[/quote]

Exactly! But it does not stop all the crying about WoW clone/reskin.

My point was simply to stop the implication that ESO was somehow 'different', in MMO terms, then 99% of the other MMO's out there now, which it is not in it's most basic iteration.

Khandi · May 2014

@rioinsigniab16_ESO

"But, theres a big difference between one person doing it, and LOTS of people doing it on the same products at the same time. And when the latter happens, that's when problems occur. See various articles on stock market bubbles and crashes."

Pardon me but Charles Schwab would like to have a word with you....

Bazaaretw · May 2014

I feel like we need an auction house. The system we have no is abysmal and very buggy. It's impossible to search for anything, and prices are very inflated, because there is no competition for pricing. Gold is already scarce based on the loot system. We need a change, one way or another.

Khandi · May 2014

Vendersleigh wrote: »

lavendercat wrote: »

Haxer wrote: »

please please please do NOT add an auction house.

AH's are the death of real looting and crafting. All the gear you could ever want isn't out there in the world, it's in town right at your finger tips. It makes gold the only commodity, much to the delight of gold bot's because gold is that much more valuable and can get you any gear in the game.

for the love of Akatosh, do NOT add an AH.

i never really thought about it before but i actually agree with this. in wow, there are people who just sit in the AH buying up mats and reselling them. it doesnt really sit well with the whole ESO thing which should be about exploring and doing stuff in the world.

(thats just my personal preference anyway, that people should be out in the world doing stuff)

Very true. An Auction House does not fit this game.

Why ever not??

Westcoast14_ESO · May 2014

Now that I've rounded out my trade guild membership, I have no issues accessing decent gear (mostly dropped, mostly blue with purple weapons and a green or two). If I want something of higher quality or better synergized that, I either need to run a lot of group instances, do a lot of AoE grinding, do a lot of PvP, or talk to guild members.

I'm guessing this is probably about where ZoS wants things to be for gear acquisition. You can get gear that lets you do any of the current content, but if you are angling for something like top times in the upcoming trials (or you just really want all BiS), you have to do some combination of significant focused game play and socializing with other players.

That said, I would like to see the following or some equivalent:
- some kind of system where crafter's could indicate (in a form that persists) the kinds of things they can make (and any conditions that need to be met in order to have an item crafted) in a persistent manner.
- a way to put up "bounties" for items, so you can let other players know you are interested in an item (again in a way that persists).
- an automated way of identifying if something in a players bank/inventory matches a item with a "bounty".

Evanis · May 2014

Jeremy wrote: »

Except that I did. I went into detail and explained to you why. Here, I'll repeat it for you:

Brother, you have the patience of a saint... I unsubbed from ESO for many reasons, including the spectacular disaster of this ill-conceived scheme called the "guild store". Nevertheless, I am open to returning to this game if ZOS eventually delivers the staple features that contemporary MMO players want and expect. I just wanted to pop in to say that I greatly respect your tenacity and acumen with respect to this topic, so thank you.

Khandi · May 2014

Evanis wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Except that I did. I went into detail and explained to you why. Here, I'll repeat it for you:

Brother, you have the patience of a saint... I unsubbed from ESO for many reasons, including the spectacular disaster of this ill-conceived scheme called the "guild store". Nevertheless, I am open to returning to this game if ZOS eventually delivers the staple features that contemporary MMO players want and expect. I just wanted to pop in to say that I greatly respect your tenacity and acumen with respect to this topic, so thank you.

Yeah, I think he is pretty awesome as well

methjester · May 2014

Khandi wrote: »

Vendersleigh wrote: »

lavendercat wrote: »

Haxer wrote: »

please please please do NOT add an auction house.

AH's are the death of real looting and crafting. All the gear you could ever want isn't out there in the world, it's in town right at your finger tips. It makes gold the only commodity, much to the delight of gold bot's because gold is that much more valuable and can get you any gear in the game.

for the love of Akatosh, do NOT add an AH.

i never really thought about it before but i actually agree with this. in wow, there are people who just sit in the AH buying up mats and reselling them. it doesnt really sit well with the whole ESO thing which should be about exploring and doing stuff in the world.

(thats just my personal preference anyway, that people should be out in the world doing stuff)

Very true. An Auction House does not fit this game.

Why ever not??

Because the single player ES games didn't have one. I have come to find out that this game is filled with hard core Elder Scroll players who want that Skyrim Experience. We're two months in and a large chunk of the players are still in their 30's, and are totally happy about it.

Shouts and whispers and a cadre of friends to not make an economy.

Blackwidow · May 2014

Phantax wrote: »

Yes EVE Online has a global auction house.
They have a megaserver (so zeni can't use that excuse) It's dynamic, easily available and it works... well !
Zenimax are just too stubborn to admit they screwed up, this game needs a 'global AH (per faction global)

QFT.

ZOS seems to double down on all their bad design choices.

I wish ZOS knew what an MMO was before making one.

Blackwidow · May 2014

methjester wrote: »

Because the single player ES games didn't have one.

Skyrim did not have thousands of players screaming to sell stuff.

I'd take an AH over the screaming.

I have come to find out that this game is filled with hard core Elder Scroll players who want that Skyrim Experience.

I want that as well. However, you do know you will never get that in ESO.

That said, an AH takes away nothing from the Skyrim feel.

We're two months in and a large chunk of the players are still in their 30's, and are totally happy about it.

That has nothing to do with the subject.

methjester · May 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

methjester wrote: »

Because the single player ES games didn't have one.

Skyrim did not have thousands of players screaming to sell stuff.

I'd take an AH over the screaming.

I have come to find out that this game is filled with hard core Elder Scroll players who want that Skyrim Experience.

I want that as well. However, you do know you will never get that in ESO.

That said, an AH takes away nothing from the Skyrim feel.

We're two months in and a large chunk of the players are still in their 30's, and are totally happy about it.

That has nothing to do with the subject.

I guess your snark and sarcasm alarm didn't go off. If you can find a better reason as to why people don't want a better system than exists now, please enlighten me. I blame it on the previous Elder Scrolls games. I myself would kill for an AH.

Knottypine · May 2014

Cogo wrote: »

Btw, the prices of repairs are silly. They needs to be raised. And if you missed it, in Patch 1.1, they are reducing the rate which your armor decays.

I should be much more expensive to repair IMO.

Sure glad you're not in the big chair making the decisions. IMO repair prices are silly expensive. Players have the ability to craft, there should also be a repair ability... make it use skill points or something.

c1r3gamerb16_ESO · May 2014

This is the first game I've played where the guild system has been re-modelled as a trading house.

Anyone who has experienced being in a true gaming guild will understand why the current system in ESO is flawed. A "guild" or "clan" was usually a close knit group of players/friends who supported each other and helped one another in a particular game. There was a fantastic spirit of camaraderie and one of the rules was we never sold to each other - we donated for the good of the guild and its members.

On the other hand using an auction house allowed you to sell freely, adjust prices according to the market forces and enjoy a bit of competitive trading.

I haven't seen a valid reason yet why we shouldn't have a faction based AH and feel the current system forcing players to join mega trading guilds to be a step backward - a pity because the game itself has so much going for it.

Knottypine · May 2014

andreas.rudroffb16_ESO wrote: »

"Auction house is a must!" ,,,,,,,,

Nope its not

auction houses are just for semi afk players ... get a grip !

Nope it's not.

Haxer wrote: »

It makes gold the only commodity, much to the delight of gold bot's because gold is that much more valuable and can get you any gear in the game.

Gold is not a commodity. It allows the purchase and sales of commodities. It would probably be a delight to a fair portion of real players. If people had the ability to list and sell through a global AH, they would have better odds of selling items faster, and making a bit of gold.

Phantax wrote: »

Guild Banks / Stores

Guild banks are fine, they do what they are intended. People can deposit stuff (or gold) for the betterment of their guild. A lot of people (myself included) make stuff purely to help the lower level players gain better gear.

Guild stores... really ! Firstly guild members shouldn't sell to other guild members, they should donate/give items to guildies.

Agreed!

Knottypine · May 2014

Vendersleigh wrote: »

Very true. An Auction House does not fit this game.

Then explain how a guild AH fits?

tylarthb16_ESO · May 2014

global trade fits as much as global fighters guild and global mages guild, in game background is there for international trade, and especially inter-alliance trade, portals and transport are common, banks are interlinked.

Jeremy · May 2014

Evanis wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Except that I did. I went into detail and explained to you why. Here, I'll repeat it for you:

Brother, you have the patience of a saint... I unsubbed from ESO for many reasons, including the spectacular disaster of this ill-conceived scheme called the "guild store". Nevertheless, I am open to returning to this game if ZOS eventually delivers the staple features that contemporary MMO players want and expect. I just wanted to pop in to say that I greatly respect your tenacity and acumen with respect to this topic, so thank you.

Thanks Evanis. And I appreciate your words of encouragement ^^

I'm sure you aren't the only one who has un-subbed partly due to this game's terrible economy. That's one of the reasons I have been so persistent about this issue. Because this game desperately needs an economy that isn't a chore to use.

Jeremy · May 2014

Khandi wrote: »

Evanis wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Except that I did. I went into detail and explained to you why. Here, I'll repeat it for you:

Brother, you have the patience of a saint... I unsubbed from ESO for many reasons, including the spectacular disaster of this ill-conceived scheme called the "guild store". Nevertheless, I am open to returning to this game if ZOS eventually delivers the staple features that contemporary MMO players want and expect. I just wanted to pop in to say that I greatly respect your tenacity and acumen with respect to this topic, so thank you.

Yeah, I think he is pretty awesome as well

I think you're awesome too.

Jeremy · May 2014

c1r3gamerb16_ESO wrote: »

This is the first game I've played where the guild system has been re-modelled as a trading house.

Anyone who has experienced being in a true gaming guild will understand why the current system in ESO is flawed. A "guild" or "clan" was usually a close knit group of players/friends who supported each other and helped one another in a particular game. There was a fantastic spirit of camaraderie and one of the rules was we never sold to each other - we donated for the good of the guild and its members.

On the other hand using an auction house allowed you to sell freely, adjust prices according to the market forces and enjoy a bit of competitive trading.

I haven't seen a valid reason yet why we shouldn't have a faction based AH and feel the current system forcing players to join mega trading guilds to be a step backward - a pity because the game itself has so much going for it.

I haven't seen many valid reasons either. Most of what the naysayers have to offer is fear mongering such as super bots taking over the economy or prices skyrocketing or descending into nothingness. Some have even suggested it would prevent players from exploring the game or being social with others. Why they think this crazy stuff I have no clue, and never will have.

The only reasonable concern I have seen posted is that it might allow players access to certain gear-types the developers would prefer us to earn through more conventional methods such as questing or dungeons. But this concern could be easily addressed by simply placing special tags on these items that disallow their usage on the market. Problem solved. There was no need to take a hatchet to the whole economy over something so easy to fix.