Maintenance for the week of September 8:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Should AOEs be as dominant as they are?
-
Don_XSoul ShrivenNerf everything across the board in PvP and it will help compensate for lag and fights will be more fun.
game fixed!0 -
Luvsfuzzybunnies✭✭✭Infraction wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »I fight with a guild using coms for coordination, we run with 12-24 depending whose online.
Many times the PUG has 50+ moving together, without AOE we do not stand a chance.
Your idea would take away the ability for us to run as a guild and force us to fight with a PUG to counter the vastly superior numbers.
Without the AOE , even with the best assist options ( which there really aren't in ESO ), the pure numbers would win.
There are so many counters available to combat AOE, we used to love killing Vamp Bat Emperors once we learnt which was the most effective way, and once learnt it was easy.
What you propose will lead to huge zergs, take away the smaller guilds options in terms of fighting and force many more to PUG, not at all what I would want.
Tell us what are the countets to AoE? Moar AoE you say well that's just the problem the OP is talking about not sure if youre trying to troll or if all of this went completely over your head. Most other pvp games actually have their AoE damage scaled down as to not one shot people this game you can one if not 2 shot people with impulse or inhale sometimes. Seems balanced I guess might as well get everyone on board and while were at it throw some oil on the ground and stand in your own pour but only do damage to the enemies.
You are not being one shot by one persons impulse. Now you are just exaggerating.
I wish I was exaggerating. Sorry maybe 2 a sorc bolt escapes on top of me holding block spamming impulse literally took my life. While I could in fact do no damage to him. I guess thats the way game mechanics are supposes to work though so youre right dont worry about it, its fine as is.Edited by Luvsfuzzybunnies on May 19, 2014 3:13PMJukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign0 -
Infraction✭✭✭Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »Infraction wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »I fight with a guild using coms for coordination, we run with 12-24 depending whose online.
Many times the PUG has 50+ moving together, without AOE we do not stand a chance.
Your idea would take away the ability for us to run as a guild and force us to fight with a PUG to counter the vastly superior numbers.
Without the AOE , even with the best assist options ( which there really aren't in ESO ), the pure numbers would win.
There are so many counters available to combat AOE, we used to love killing Vamp Bat Emperors once we learnt which was the most effective way, and once learnt it was easy.
What you propose will lead to huge zergs, take away the smaller guilds options in terms of fighting and force many more to PUG, not at all what I would want.
Tell us what are the countets to AoE? Moar AoE you say well that's just the problem the OP is talking about not sure if youre trying to troll or if all of this went completely over your head. Most other pvp games actually have their AoE damage scaled down as to not one shot people this game you can one if not 2 shot people with impulse or inhale sometimes. Seems balanced I guess might as well get everyone on board and while were at it throw some oil on the ground and stand in your own pour but only do damage to the enemies.
You are not being one shot by one persons impulse. Now you are just exaggerating.
I wish I was exaggerating.
Then you literally have about 400 health since one shot would be one button press. You are sensationalizing the damage to state your case.
0 -
Sociabear✭✭Stop clumping up...how hard is it..gtfo of the way!
Edit: And OMG! Damn people for working together in a coordinated fashion!
Edited by Sociabear on May 19, 2014 3:35PM1 -
Ppl keep saying group vs the Zerg, if your fg then 24 ppl is a Zerg in my eyes. Reduce the god damn group sizes and keep healing within the group ( unless all is at 100% health ) that's how u reduce this zerging business.Patch 1.2.3 nerfed the game....
Zergballing wrecked pvp......
Now waiting for Camelot Unchained!!1 -
Imperator_Clydus✭✭✭✭I fight with a guild using coms for coordination, we run with 12-24 depending whose online.
Many times the PUG has 50+ moving together, without AOE we do not stand a chance.
Your idea would take away the ability for us to run as a guild and force us to fight with a PUG to counter the vastly superior numbers.
Without the AOE , even with the best assist options ( which there really aren't in ESO ), the pure numbers would win.
There are so many counters available to combat AOE, we used to love killing Vamp Bat Emperors once we learnt which was the most effective way, and once learnt it was easy.
What you propose will lead to huge zergs, take away the smaller guilds options in terms of fighting and force many more to PUG, not at all what I would want.
There are a few things wrong with this post. First and foremost, masses of PUGs are not nearly as difficult as you think. They are not coordinated. They are not organized. Careful use of the environment, ambushes, and siege can easily thwart their halt.
My idea would perhaps force you to rely on siege, other guilds or allies in your alliance, and make you play smarter to beat these superior numbers. The problem with AOE spamming is there isn't a definitive counter to it, especially in close quarters.
This means in order to fight against this approach, others would have to AOE spam, leading to a PvP experience where everyone is trying to AOE spam the other. Is that your idea of fun PvP? Vampires are largely obsolete and there isn't a skill line like the fighters guild to deal with AOE spammers.
I wouldn't mind if there was a skill line built to defuse AOE spammers, but really diminishing returns is the most reasonable solution. Siege is made to counter zergs and really that is what you should be using.The First Daggerfall Emperor of Tamriel on Bloodthorn and Guild Leader of Shehai0 -
Imperator_Clydus✭✭✭✭PS. To the above, Siege is used to defend tactical points and are great for that but in a flowing campaign where movement is crucial they would be no little use on an open battlefield. We would simply run through or attack from behind which renders them useless.
This is why I suggest ZOS expanding on the siege they currently already have. Siege was built to counter zergs and that is the sole tool that should do it. I am merely trying to bring more thought and diversity to the AvA experience. What I want to avoid is everyone resulting to AOE spamming because it is the best solution.The First Daggerfall Emperor of Tamriel on Bloodthorn and Guild Leader of Shehai0 -
Bergs✭Outside of a few broken ults, AOE is only really strong because of the roots holding everyone in place. Good assist trains will still beat AOE groups.0 -
Imperator_Clydus✭✭✭✭Nothing to do with the power of AOE in AvA.
It's the power of stuffed V10 AOEing in AvA, but that has nothing to do with AOE and should resolve itself when most of us will be VR6+ .
As for the 6-12 man's taking on the RvR PUG main group. Ferrari > train but when the Ferrari meets the train, it's the train that wins. Working as intended.
I disagree. For one, once you hit VR1, that's really the end of your progression. VR10 just gives you access to better gear. Secondly, a large portion of the game is at least VR1 by now. AOEs are literally just that powerful, and anyone, regardless of their level, will get destroyed by an impending wave of AOE spammers.
ZOS needs to heavily reconsider the power of AOEs, otherwise it will be a tactic everybody will start using. That will largely dilute the flexibility of playing what you want, as really only one tactic is viable.The First Daggerfall Emperor of Tamriel on Bloodthorn and Guild Leader of Shehai0 -
Imperator_Clydus✭✭✭✭I don't understand why its crippling PVP at all, the way this is going it will be 100v100 in a blob, like GW2 and we all know what happened there ..
PvP is already like that because AP gains encourages that. Again, siege is the zerg counter. That should be what ZOS further expands upon.The First Daggerfall Emperor of Tamriel on Bloodthorn and Guild Leader of Shehai0 -
Imperator_Clydus✭✭✭✭There is already blobs of 50 ep zerging keeps, w/o these aoe abilities, we wouldn't be able to stop them, it already hard enough for our templars to heal us up while we roll up the flank of the said 50 people with 13 guys, while the rest of the dc forces hug themselves inside the keep.
So what do you suggest? turn the game into a range blob fight, I've seen what you guys do, for example from chalman to Bleakers, usually its a tug of war of who has the bigger blob, dc pushing ep to chalman and they do the same thing back to bleakers after they respawn, you want that kind of fights, there's plenty in wabbajack.
Zenimax is already nerfing some of the dk abilities, so you blob range guilds can roll up on smaller groups easier, i wouldn't mind that, i take it as challenge, but if you gonna call for aoe to be nerfed to the ground, let me just say, be more coordinated, get a voice chat program and get organized, commanding in chat isn't going to do much against a group which uses it.
I find it funny you are accusing me of zerging between Chalman and Bleakers all day long. This just goes to show how little you know about me and my guild. I do not encourage nor support this kind of game play at all. ZOS actually does, with how AP gains currently work. I want objectives to matter more than kills, and then we'd see people attacking more objectives and the PvP would spread out and not be zerg wars 24/7.
On the topic of AOEs, siege engines are the counter to zergs. If ZOS allows AOE spamming to continue, eventually everyone will resort to this tactic. We will have a PvP system without diversity, without flexibility, and it will be rather one-dimensional. Again, spamming two AOE abilities with others should not kill players in a matter of seconds. Single target skills should always be the best way of killing a player.
This issue will only continue to escalate and worsen as time goes on. You may enjoy it now while the small, coordinate groups are only using AOE spams. Picture a scenario in a few months when everybody is doing it, PUGs, zergs, everyone. Is that the kind of PvP experience you consider enjoyable? Certainly, your AOE tactic will not be nearly as effective as it is now.The First Daggerfall Emperor of Tamriel on Bloodthorn and Guild Leader of Shehai0 -
Numeriku✭✭Imperator_Clydus wrote: »There is already blobs of 50 ep zerging keeps, w/o these aoe abilities, we wouldn't be able to stop them, it already hard enough for our templars to heal us up while we roll up the flank of the said 50 people with 13 guys, while the rest of the dc forces hug themselves inside the keep.
So what do you suggest? turn the game into a range blob fight, I've seen what you guys do, for example from chalman to Bleakers, usually its a tug of war of who has the bigger blob, dc pushing ep to chalman and they do the same thing back to bleakers after they respawn, you want that kind of fights, there's plenty in wabbajack.
Zenimax is already nerfing some of the dk abilities, so you blob range guilds can roll up on smaller groups easier, i wouldn't mind that, i take it as challenge, but if you gonna call for aoe to be nerfed to the ground, let me just say, be more coordinated, get a voice chat program and get organized, commanding in chat isn't going to do much against a group which uses it.
I find it funny you are accusing me of zerging between Chalman and Bleakers all day long. This just goes to show how little you know about me and my guild. I do not encourage nor support this kind of game play at all. ZOS actually does, with how AP gains currently work. I want objectives to matter more than kills, and then we'd see people attacking more objectives and the PvP would spread out and not be zerg wars 24/7.
On the topic of AOEs, siege engines are the counter to zergs. If ZOS allows AOE spamming to continue, eventually everyone will resort to this tactic. We will have a PvP system without diversity, without flexibility, and it will be rather one-dimensional. Again, spamming two AOE abilities with others should not kill players in a matter of seconds. Single target skills should always be the best way of killing a player.
This issue will only continue to escalate and worsen as time goes on. You may enjoy it now while the small, coordinate groups are only using AOE spams. Picture a scenario in a few months when everybody is doing it, PUGs, zergs, everyone. Is that the kind of PvP experience you consider enjoyable? Certainly, your AOE tactic will not be nearly as effective as it is now.
And if you have been paying attention to how the groups have been aoe spamming, they are not just using impulse & a couple more aoe abilities, its a variety of different skills coordinated together on voice chat, we need healers to keep up with both support and healing, a sorceror keeping up the stuns, cause we take the time to learn to keep ahead of the other organized groups & by a few months, we would have found a way to better coordinate our group even better vs a guild who just started learning how to do it., i dare you to try do it with your guild and aoe spam & see whether you can bust big groups of players.
Siege is a fine way to counter zergs, but to keep this game fresh, there must be a variety of ways how people can choose to play, by having only sieges to counter zergs, tbh its gonna get boring real fast.Edited by Numeriku on May 19, 2014 8:27PMLegendary Lee / Terror / www.go-terror.com / Proud member of the Daggerfall Covenant0 -
Anilahation✭✭✭✭Teevesnacks wrote: »coordinated groups doing coordinated things
Nerf coordination
"Okay every sneak and wait till the zerg walks onto us"
" DK get your dark talons ready"
"NOW EVERYONE SPAM IMPULSE"
#cordination
2 -
Bergs✭JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Teevesnacks wrote: »coordinated groups doing coordinated things
Nerf coordination
"Okay every sneak and wait till the zerg walks onto us"
" DK get your dark talons ready"
"NOW EVERYONE SPAM IMPULSE"
#cordination
Once they solve the issue with roots/lag this strat will only work against the truly inept.
0 -
Anilahation✭✭✭✭JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »Teevesnacks wrote: »coordinated groups doing coordinated things
Nerf coordination
"Okay every sneak and wait till the zerg walks onto us"
" DK get your dark talons ready"
"NOW EVERYONE SPAM IMPULSE"
#cordination
Once they solve the issue with roots/lag this strat will only work against the truly inept.
Don't Forget about the oil on ground m
1 -
Luvsfuzzybunnies✭✭✭Infraction wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »Infraction wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »I fight with a guild using coms for coordination, we run with 12-24 depending whose online.
Many times the PUG has 50+ moving together, without AOE we do not stand a chance.
Your idea would take away the ability for us to run as a guild and force us to fight with a PUG to counter the vastly superior numbers.
Without the AOE , even with the best assist options ( which there really aren't in ESO ), the pure numbers would win.
There are so many counters available to combat AOE, we used to love killing Vamp Bat Emperors once we learnt which was the most effective way, and once learnt it was easy.
What you propose will lead to huge zergs, take away the smaller guilds options in terms of fighting and force many more to PUG, not at all what I would want.
Tell us what are the countets to AoE? Moar AoE you say well that's just the problem the OP is talking about not sure if youre trying to troll or if all of this went completely over your head. Most other pvp games actually have their AoE damage scaled down as to not one shot people this game you can one if not 2 shot people with impulse or inhale sometimes. Seems balanced I guess might as well get everyone on board and while were at it throw some oil on the ground and stand in your own pour but only do damage to the enemies.
You are not being one shot by one persons impulse. Now you are just exaggerating.
I wish I was exaggerating.
Then you literally have about 400 health since one shot would be one button press. You are sensationalizing the damage to state your case.
I guess I need to fraps some pvp to.ahow you my 2.6k health and sorca impulsing me for 2kJukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign0 -
Numeriku✭✭Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »Infraction wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »Infraction wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »I fight with a guild using coms for coordination, we run with 12-24 depending whose online.
Many times the PUG has 50+ moving together, without AOE we do not stand a chance.
Your idea would take away the ability for us to run as a guild and force us to fight with a PUG to counter the vastly superior numbers.
Without the AOE , even with the best assist options ( which there really aren't in ESO ), the pure numbers would win.
There are so many counters available to combat AOE, we used to love killing Vamp Bat Emperors once we learnt which was the most effective way, and once learnt it was easy.
What you propose will lead to huge zergs, take away the smaller guilds options in terms of fighting and force many more to PUG, not at all what I would want.
Tell us what are the countets to AoE? Moar AoE you say well that's just the problem the OP is talking about not sure if youre trying to troll or if all of this went completely over your head. Most other pvp games actually have their AoE damage scaled down as to not one shot people this game you can one if not 2 shot people with impulse or inhale sometimes. Seems balanced I guess might as well get everyone on board and while were at it throw some oil on the ground and stand in your own pour but only do damage to the enemies.
You are not being one shot by one persons impulse. Now you are just exaggerating.
I wish I was exaggerating.
Then you literally have about 400 health since one shot would be one button press. You are sensationalizing the damage to state your case.
I guess I need to fraps some pvp to.ahow you my 2.6k health and sorca impulsing me for 2k
lul, go read the tooltip how much damage impulse does, and get a combat log addon.Legendary Lee / Terror / www.go-terror.com / Proud member of the Daggerfall Covenant0 -
Sebyos✭small groups using aoe to own larger and uncoordinated groups is the only fun thing left in pvp so lets keep it that way...0
-
nukeyoo✭✭✭Sooo....
?Running around in a group pushing 1-3 buttons containing {single target} abilities and aiming at close targets = {skilled}
Running around in a group pushing 1-3 buttons containing {aoe} abilities and aiming at close targets = {unskilled}
I can only imagine the tears if a workable assisting addon is incorporated and all these "unskilled" aoe groups dismantle the zerg and whoever is crying and hiding inside it using single target. What will be the excuse then?
Try to get it...
Edited by nukeyoo on May 20, 2014 1:44AM- done w/ it0 -
Luvsfuzzybunnies✭✭✭Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »Infraction wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »Infraction wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »I fight with a guild using coms for coordination, we run with 12-24 depending whose online.
Many times the PUG has 50+ moving together, without AOE we do not stand a chance.
Your idea would take away the ability for us to run as a guild and force us to fight with a PUG to counter the vastly superior numbers.
Without the AOE , even with the best assist options ( which there really aren't in ESO ), the pure numbers would win.
There are so many counters available to combat AOE, we used to love killing Vamp Bat Emperors once we learnt which was the most effective way, and once learnt it was easy.
What you propose will lead to huge zergs, take away the smaller guilds options in terms of fighting and force many more to PUG, not at all what I would want.
Tell us what are the countets to AoE? Moar AoE you say well that's just the problem the OP is talking about not sure if youre trying to troll or if all of this went completely over your head. Most other pvp games actually have their AoE damage scaled down as to not one shot people this game you can one if not 2 shot people with impulse or inhale sometimes. Seems balanced I guess might as well get everyone on board and while were at it throw some oil on the ground and stand in your own pour but only do damage to the enemies.
You are not being one shot by one persons impulse. Now you are just exaggerating.
I wish I was exaggerating.
Then you literally have about 400 health since one shot would be one button press. You are sensationalizing the damage to state your case.
I guess I need to fraps some pvp to.ahow you my 2.6k health and sorca impulsing me for 2k
lul, go read the tooltip how much damage impulse does, and get a combat log addon.
Cause the tooltip is exactly how much damage the ability does everytime no more no less. I see your point im glad you could clear that up for me.Jukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign0 -
Infraction✭✭✭Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »Infraction wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »Infraction wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »I fight with a guild using coms for coordination, we run with 12-24 depending whose online.
Many times the PUG has 50+ moving together, without AOE we do not stand a chance.
Your idea would take away the ability for us to run as a guild and force us to fight with a PUG to counter the vastly superior numbers.
Without the AOE , even with the best assist options ( which there really aren't in ESO ), the pure numbers would win.
There are so many counters available to combat AOE, we used to love killing Vamp Bat Emperors once we learnt which was the most effective way, and once learnt it was easy.
What you propose will lead to huge zergs, take away the smaller guilds options in terms of fighting and force many more to PUG, not at all what I would want.
Tell us what are the countets to AoE? Moar AoE you say well that's just the problem the OP is talking about not sure if youre trying to troll or if all of this went completely over your head. Most other pvp games actually have their AoE damage scaled down as to not one shot people this game you can one if not 2 shot people with impulse or inhale sometimes. Seems balanced I guess might as well get everyone on board and while were at it throw some oil on the ground and stand in your own pour but only do damage to the enemies.
You are not being one shot by one persons impulse. Now you are just exaggerating.
I wish I was exaggerating.
Then you literally have about 400 health since one shot would be one button press. You are sensationalizing the damage to state your case.
I guess I need to fraps some pvp to.ahow you my 2.6k health and sorca impulsing me for 2k
lul, go read the tooltip how much damage impulse does, and get a combat log addon.
Cause the tooltip is exactly how much damage the ability does everytime no more no less. I see your point im glad you could clear that up for me.
Go ahead and do it and show it hitting you hard enough to one shot you in one hit. Don't show us several hits of it by multiple people or several hits by the same person.
0 -
Nooblet✭✭✭✭AoEs arent really the problem. The problem is that you can do just as much or more AoE dmg in specs that are the opposite of glass cannon. Having super tanky builds capable of doing very high AoE dps is kinda silly imo.1 -
Numeriku✭✭Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »Infraction wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »Infraction wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »I fight with a guild using coms for coordination, we run with 12-24 depending whose online.
Many times the PUG has 50+ moving together, without AOE we do not stand a chance.
Your idea would take away the ability for us to run as a guild and force us to fight with a PUG to counter the vastly superior numbers.
Without the AOE , even with the best assist options ( which there really aren't in ESO ), the pure numbers would win.
There are so many counters available to combat AOE, we used to love killing Vamp Bat Emperors once we learnt which was the most effective way, and once learnt it was easy.
What you propose will lead to huge zergs, take away the smaller guilds options in terms of fighting and force many more to PUG, not at all what I would want.
Tell us what are the countets to AoE? Moar AoE you say well that's just the problem the OP is talking about not sure if youre trying to troll or if all of this went completely over your head. Most other pvp games actually have their AoE damage scaled down as to not one shot people this game you can one if not 2 shot people with impulse or inhale sometimes. Seems balanced I guess might as well get everyone on board and while were at it throw some oil on the ground and stand in your own pour but only do damage to the enemies.
You are not being one shot by one persons impulse. Now you are just exaggerating.
I wish I was exaggerating.
Then you literally have about 400 health since one shot would be one button press. You are sensationalizing the damage to state your case.
I guess I need to fraps some pvp to.ahow you my 2.6k health and sorca impulsing me for 2k
lul, go read the tooltip how much damage impulse does, and get a combat log addon.
Cause the tooltip is exactly how much damage the ability does everytime no more no less. I see your point im glad you could clear that up for me.
Show me a combat log of a single impulse one shotting you for 2k, you are just over over exaggerating.Legendary Lee / Terror / www.go-terror.com / Proud member of the Daggerfall Covenant0 -
arnaldomoraleseb17_ESO wrote: »
Isnt biting jabs damage increased by max magika/spellpower while flurry damage increased by stamina/weapon damage? Out of curiosity..how would you go about comparing the damage of both skills...Further more you are comparing a weapon skill against a class skill, do you have all the passives for DW, do you haev all the passives for templar skill tree/etc? From what i tested flurry is one of the more fortunate weapon skills that give you quite a nice burst, 2-3 times more than any aoe can pull off in ideal conditions, if specced right.0 -
Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »Infraction wrote: »Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »I fight with a guild using coms for coordination, we run with 12-24 depending whose online.
Many times the PUG has 50+ moving together, without AOE we do not stand a chance.
Your idea would take away the ability for us to run as a guild and force us to fight with a PUG to counter the vastly superior numbers.
Without the AOE , even with the best assist options ( which there really aren't in ESO ), the pure numbers would win.
There are so many counters available to combat AOE, we used to love killing Vamp Bat Emperors once we learnt which was the most effective way, and once learnt it was easy.
What you propose will lead to huge zergs, take away the smaller guilds options in terms of fighting and force many more to PUG, not at all what I would want.
Tell us what are the countets to AoE? Moar AoE you say well that's just the problem the OP is talking about not sure if youre trying to troll or if all of this went completely over your head. Most other pvp games actually have their AoE damage scaled down as to not one shot people this game you can one if not 2 shot people with impulse or inhale sometimes. Seems balanced I guess might as well get everyone on board and while were at it throw some oil on the ground and stand in your own pour but only do damage to the enemies.
You are not being one shot by one persons impulse. Now you are just exaggerating.
I wish I was exaggerating. Sorry maybe 2 a sorc bolt escapes on top of me holding block spamming impulse literally took my life. While I could in fact do no damage to him. I guess thats the way game mechanics are supposes to work though so youre right dont worry about it, its fine as is.
If a sorc can melee you and live then you have a serious problem with your build and/or playing a character below level 50 (non-dk).
EDIT: Best you could pull off with a pulse is around 350-360 crits/cast and that in ideal conditions. If you can come up with a proof then people will listen, if you lack proof and just claim absurd things people wont...if you know to be right and dont have any proof use the /bug command ingame and spare us, if there is a problem they will fix it, nothing to worry about.Edited by popatiberiuoneb18_ESO on May 20, 2014 12:18PM0 -
Imperator_Clydus✭✭✭✭People are missing the point here. So many of you are getting so defensive and bent out of shape because your "tactic" is being put on the stand for reconsideration.
I'm not interested in delivering the nerf bat. I'm interested in keeping PvP in this game viable, flexible, and interesting. I am merely suggesting that if AOEs remain the way they are, with how powerful they are when stacked, it will make PvP very one-dimensional.
You argue it's "skill" having your group stack, using various abilities such as impulse, standard of might, dark talons, grand healing, bolt escape, etc. I argue it doesn't take a rocket scientist to have 15 players all using similar abilities simultaneously in the same proximity of each other.
You argue "well there are plenty of ways to counter this if you aren't PUGs or a zerg." I argue how many ways are there actually? Clearly if it was a tactic that could be easily countered, you wouldn't be using it to start.
I'm all for group coordination and tactics. That's why I'm playing this game and that's why my guild is here. At the same time, I also want PvP to actually be interesting and see more than one spec and one tactic viable in Cyrodiil. I don't consider 15 players spamming dark talons, standard of might, and impulse to be remotely interesting or skillful in the slightest.
With how popular and efficient this tactic is, it's only inevitable that eventually everybody will jump on board with the FOTM. My point, again, is AOEs should have diminishing returns based on how many are stacking, and siege engines should remain the counter to zergs. AOEs have a place in AvA, but they should not be what drives the experience for the majority of the player base.
That completely contradicts choice and freedom, which is honestly what ESO is all about. Why even bother theory crafting if you know there is only one viable solution? With a game that boasts having so much depth, it's ironic how little flexibility AvA actually provides in terms of choice.The First Daggerfall Emperor of Tamriel on Bloodthorn and Guild Leader of Shehai3 -
Numeriku✭✭Imperator_Clydus wrote: »People are missing the point here. So many of you are getting so defensive and bent out of shape because your "tactic" is being put on the stand for reconsideration.
I'm not interested in delivering the nerf bat. I'm interested in keeping PvP in this game viable, flexible, and interesting. I am merely suggesting that if AOEs remain the way they are, with how powerful they are when stacked, it will make PvP very one-dimensional.
You argue it's "skill" having your group stack, using various abilities such as impulse, standard of might, dark talons, grand healing, bolt escape, etc. I argue it doesn't take a rocket scientist to have 15 players all using similar abilities simultaneously in the same proximity of each other.
You argue "well there are plenty of ways to counter this if you aren't PUGs or a zerg." I argue how many ways are there actually? Clearly if it was a tactic that could be easily countered, you wouldn't be using it to start.
I'm all for group coordination and tactics. That's why I'm playing this game and that's why my guild is here. At the same time, I also want PvP to actually be interesting and see more than one spec and one tactic viable in Cyrodiil. I don't consider 15 players spamming dark talons, standard of might, and impulse to be remotely interesting or skillful in the slightest.
With how popular and efficient this tactic is, it's only inevitable that eventually everybody will jump on board with the FOTM. My point, again, is AOEs should have diminishing returns based on how many are stacking, and siege engines should remain the counter to zergs. AOEs have a place in AvA, but they should not be what drives the experience for the majority of the player base.
That completely contradicts choice and freedom, which is honestly what ESO is all about. Why even bother theory crafting if you know there is only one viable solution? With a game that boasts having so much depth, it's ironic how little flexibility AvA actually provides in terms of choice.
If zenimax nerfing aoe to the ground and make small groups not viable to beat larger groups, how is there choice and freedom, where only one possible way is to just turtle it out in a tug of war using siege & need larger groups, siege to prevail against the enemy? Up next, when aoe is no longer viable, i will find a way to do a melee stack bomb, and either you or some other player will call out to zenimax to nerf it to the ground too, lets face it, you don't like getting wiped everytime you take an objective by guilds which are smaller than you, so you are doing this to justify about how YOU want the game to be, cause you do not want to make the effort to set up a voice chat server and organize with your guild and public players with you, i have been in your groups countless times, you just direct people on what to do on chat but not coordinating in real time with voice, anyone can do that, heck i've done it hundreds of times in my 2 years in guild wars 2, even with a nerf every good guilds in this game will find a way to do something against zergs like the current meta, and players & guild like yours will continue on mindlessly blob with massive numbers & complaining about how you can do it too yada yada when in the end, you will never be able to get on our level. I'm done with this thread, take it or leave it, you have your own fans clydus, and we have ours.
Edited by Numeriku on May 20, 2014 4:40PMLegendary Lee / Terror / www.go-terror.com / Proud member of the Daggerfall Covenant0 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think you're exaggerating how homogenous strategies are and also lumping in some odd ones....Bolt Escape is not an AoE.
I also think you're mistaken in thinking that single target is not just as powerful (or more powerful) than AoE. Get a group of single target DPS. You only need like 6. Now get them in TS and have one person calling targets with either Back Lash or Quick Siphon. Watch how fast stuff melts.
AoE is under powered right now. It should be hitting harder IMO. Especially ground based AoEs like Wall of Lightning and Lightning Pool (the PBAoE's are pretty much fine as is.) Standing in a pool of fire/lightning/ice should be punishing. You should have to move out of it. If you get rooted in that pool, you should have to dodge.
Right now those skills barely tickle.0 -
Nooblet✭✭✭✭I think you're exaggerating how homogenous strategies are and also lumping in some odd ones....Bolt Escape is not an AoE.
I also think you're mistaken in thinking that single target is not just as powerful (or more powerful) than AoE. Get a group of single target DPS. You only need like 6. Now get them in TS and have one person calling targets with either Back Lash or Quick Siphon. Watch how fast stuff melts.
AoE is under powered right now. It should be hitting harder IMO. Especially ground based AoEs like Wall of Lightning and Lightning Pool (the PBAoE's are pretty much fine as is.) Standing in a pool of fire/lightning/ice should be punishing. You should have to move out of it. If you get rooted in that pool, you should have to dodge.
Right now those skills barely tickle.
How well does that work when you are going up against a tight stack of players with mostly DKs in the front holding block. It's not really that easy to focus fire in a big clump of players. Which happens to be that tactic in question. Stack in a ball, Spam AE. And when you're not focusing one target, all the AE heals casted in the group will be smart healed to the players who are hit. Whereas the incoming dps is rather hard to control with the target system.Edited by Nooblet on May 20, 2014 8:14PM1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh look, The OP now thinks AOE's are to powerful, and wants to remove that as well.....For someone who claims he loved DAOC, you sure do want to remove everything about this game that was similar to DAOC.
We already have Matt Firor doing that, we don't need anymore suggestions on how to screw up the game more.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0