What NOT to do on the next Night Market (or any similar event)

Wildberryjack · June 18

I wasn't going to grind the keys endlessly so I didn't bother with the dungeons at all. That needs to go, yeah. The Duneripper was awesome though! We loved that guy, he was fun to avoid and also to fight. But my god yall have to put better rewards in the blue reward coffers for the zone side quests. Little furnishings related to the event would be awesome or faction xp tokens, something other than getting the same gear set over and over and over and over.

Benzux · June 18

shadoza wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

Why so many are against grouping i do not get it. You can get into the group, not type anything and just follow Crown and get your zone bosses done. Maybe you may need to talk a bit during a dungeon or raid of Night Market but that is it really.

People love options. When an option feels like it is being removed, people tend to be defensive.

Some folks are just not followers. Nor are they leaders. They just want to play their way in their own time.

Groups are toxic unless you are playing with friends; even then, it can be taxing if one of the friends is easily distracted or in a bad mood.

People that work 40+ hours a week hold their gaming time close. Waiting for other people to get it together or for a respawn feels like their precious time is slipping away.

There are many groups that just want to bulldoze through every content or event. Some people like to take time to 'smell the roses' while they play.

Group content increasingly demands specific gear, skills, or play style. Catering to the power creep for end-game players and groupers has left new or more casual player without the resources or gear to compete. Being repeatedly killed is not fun. Being told you have to use this gear and that skill is not fun either.

Play Your Way was a moto of ESO in the start. People that were there from the beginning may feel like the game is no longer what it was originally intended to be.

When people feel the game is free-rolling toward co-op behavior, they panic brake. They want the movement to stop and reassurance that the path is not changing. They're not getting so they keep that brake on.

Those are a few reasons I have come across. I am sure that everyone has their own reason but many have made comments that can find a home in the cluster above.

I am a predominantly solo player who loved the Night Market and got through it all by simply joining random group finder groups running around the districts, and also PUGging the three "dungeons" and the trial, the latter on the last day with barely any communication, and not a single time did I encounter any issues.

I dunno what kinda groups you were part of, but I didn't see a shred of toxicity in the Night Market. Heck, most of the time, people didn't even communicate, we simply all knew what we needed to do together, whether that was running around a district to kill stuff while sharing quests, or eliminating specific targets specified in a group's description. And neither was there any demand for specific builds from anyone, even in the dungeons/trial. The only bar for entering that I saw was "please know the mechanics", and even when we inevitably wiped a couple times before getting it done, nobody was telling anybody else to change how they played.

As far as group content goes, the Night Market is incredibly solo-friendly. Most of the daily district quests could be easily done on your own once you knew where the objectives were, and all it required was a bit of running, a self-heal and a shield, or an invis pot or two. The group finder always had open groups for boss killing that one could join and leave with 0 pressure or expectations, and Dorfifar's daily would be 70% done by the time you've made your way over to where the group is. And even without joining a group, there was always bound to be groups running around the districts that you could meet while on your own, and tag along with to help with killing a boss.

katanagirl1 · June 19

It would have been nice to have a higher player cap per instance so you could just do soft grouping. Once you have a few argent keys and just need selective ones, it can be hard to find a group to do them, and just walking into one of the three areas meant you were likely the only player in there. You can start a group, but many times the players won’t follow crown and run off somewhere else.

Athometodd · June 19

Imo Duneripper was the best changeup to roaming boss design and it was super fun. When the 'fated' enemies got patched in, they seemed too common and upped the solo-difficulty with regard to traversal a bit too much. I like the "fated" but they should have been bit more of a special find. A bit shorter of an event would have been better I think, and making more discoverable secrets with the the traversal tools would be cool - and make the traveral tools actual make traversing overland a bit more comprehensively a thing. While it took a week to understand how to navigate the difficulty spike, the event really showcased the Group Finder and how simple it was to pull people together. I normally never would post as a lead, but I did so with NM after awhile whenever I wanted to complete a daily task and there people always jumped in.

shadoza · 3:25AM

Benzux wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

Why so many are against grouping i do not get it. You can get into the group, not type anything and just follow Crown and get your zone bosses done. Maybe you may need to talk a bit during a dungeon or raid of Night Market but that is it really.

People love options. When an option feels like it is being removed, people tend to be defensive.

Some folks are just not followers. Nor are they leaders. They just want to play their way in their own time.

Groups are toxic unless you are playing with friends; even then, it can be taxing if one of the friends is easily distracted or in a bad mood.

People that work 40+ hours a week hold their gaming time close. Waiting for other people to get it together or for a respawn feels like their precious time is slipping away.

There are many groups that just want to bulldoze through every content or event. Some people like to take time to 'smell the roses' while they play.

Group content increasingly demands specific gear, skills, or play style. Catering to the power creep for end-game players and groupers has left new or more casual player without the resources or gear to compete. Being repeatedly killed is not fun. Being told you have to use this gear and that skill is not fun either.

Play Your Way was a moto of ESO in the start. People that were there from the beginning may feel like the game is no longer what it was originally intended to be.

When people feel the game is free-rolling toward co-op behavior, they panic brake. They want the movement to stop and reassurance that the path is not changing. They're not getting so they keep that brake on.

Those are a few reasons I have come across. I am sure that everyone has their own reason but many have made comments that can find a home in the cluster above.

I am a predominantly solo player who loved the Night Market and got through it all by simply joining random group finder groups running around the districts, and also PUGging the three "dungeons" and the trial, the latter on the last day with barely any communication, and not a single time did I encounter any issues.

I dunno what kinda groups you were part of, but I didn't see a shred of toxicity in the Night Market. Heck, most of the time, people didn't even communicate, we simply all knew what we needed to do together, whether that was running around a district to kill stuff while sharing quests, or eliminating specific targets specified in a group's description. And neither was there any demand for specific builds from anyone, even in the dungeons/trial. The only bar for entering that I saw was "please know the mechanics", and even when we inevitably wiped a couple times before getting it done, nobody was telling anybody else to change how they played.

As far as group content goes, the Night Market is incredibly solo-friendly. Most of the daily district quests could be easily done on your own once you knew where the objectives were, and all it required was a bit of running, a self-heal and a shield, or an invis pot or two. The group finder always had open groups for boss killing that one could join and leave with 0 pressure or expectations, and Dorfifar's daily would be 70% done by the time you've made your way over to where the group is. And even without joining a group, there was always bound to be groups running around the districts that you could meet while on your own, and tag along with to help with killing a boss.

Lucky you.

Night Market is NOT solo friendly. People that say lies like this are not helping the game at all.

tomofhyrule · 3:39AM

shadoza wrote: »

Benzux wrote: »

shadoza wrote: »

Treeshka wrote: »

Why so many are against grouping i do not get it. You can get into the group, not type anything and just follow Crown and get your zone bosses done. Maybe you may need to talk a bit during a dungeon or raid of Night Market but that is it really.

People love options. When an option feels like it is being removed, people tend to be defensive.

Some folks are just not followers. Nor are they leaders. They just want to play their way in their own time.

Groups are toxic unless you are playing with friends; even then, it can be taxing if one of the friends is easily distracted or in a bad mood.

People that work 40+ hours a week hold their gaming time close. Waiting for other people to get it together or for a respawn feels like their precious time is slipping away.

There are many groups that just want to bulldoze through every content or event. Some people like to take time to 'smell the roses' while they play.

Group content increasingly demands specific gear, skills, or play style. Catering to the power creep for end-game players and groupers has left new or more casual player without the resources or gear to compete. Being repeatedly killed is not fun. Being told you have to use this gear and that skill is not fun either.

Play Your Way was a moto of ESO in the start. People that were there from the beginning may feel like the game is no longer what it was originally intended to be.

When people feel the game is free-rolling toward co-op behavior, they panic brake. They want the movement to stop and reassurance that the path is not changing. They're not getting so they keep that brake on.

Those are a few reasons I have come across. I am sure that everyone has their own reason but many have made comments that can find a home in the cluster above.

I am a predominantly solo player who loved the Night Market and got through it all by simply joining random group finder groups running around the districts, and also PUGging the three "dungeons" and the trial, the latter on the last day with barely any communication, and not a single time did I encounter any issues.

I dunno what kinda groups you were part of, but I didn't see a shred of toxicity in the Night Market. Heck, most of the time, people didn't even communicate, we simply all knew what we needed to do together, whether that was running around a district to kill stuff while sharing quests, or eliminating specific targets specified in a group's description. And neither was there any demand for specific builds from anyone, even in the dungeons/trial. The only bar for entering that I saw was "please know the mechanics", and even when we inevitably wiped a couple times before getting it done, nobody was telling anybody else to change how they played.

As far as group content goes, the Night Market is incredibly solo-friendly. Most of the daily district quests could be easily done on your own once you knew where the objectives were, and all it required was a bit of running, a self-heal and a shield, or an invis pot or two. The group finder always had open groups for boss killing that one could join and leave with 0 pressure or expectations, and Dorfifar's daily would be 70% done by the time you've made your way over to where the group is. And even without joining a group, there was always bound to be groups running around the districts that you could meet while on your own, and tag along with to help with killing a boss.

Lucky you.

Night Market is NOT solo friendly. People that say lies like this are not helping the game at all.

I think the issue here is some people see "this is solo friendly" and think "I don't have to have friends with me, I can just jump in and join whichever groups are around or zerg surf and I'll be fine," and some people think "I NEVER WANT TO SEE ANOTHER PERSON IN MY GAME EVER!!!!!11!1!"

Obviously, the Night Market was the former. Not the latter.

I found the Night Market perfectly soloable, at least for the district quests. I wore my standard PvP/Archive gear and brought a Companion and really had no issues with any of the trash running around. For the bosses, I had my standard dungeon group.

But I will note that for people who abhor other people in general, the Night Market was probably an awful experience, particularly if those people aren't used to gearing up for difficult solo content like vVH HM or vMA Flawless Conqueror. Fortunately for them, those people will get their solo stories in July.

LalMirchi · 10:55AM

I'm very curious and often test new things. However this Night Market was extremely tedious.

frogthroat · 12:01PM

1) It wasn't a requirement. I loved soloing there. Sure, I could not take on an argent on my own, but otherwise, why do you think you had to group up? It made everything faster, sure, but you could go solo, too. I even figured out some tank builds with 60k+ dps that work just in NM. Probably could have taken on an argent alone with that. Why didn't I try? Oh well, next time.
2) Yeah, this one I agree with. The key thing actually made me decline many help requests because I needed my keys later and didn't want to waste them.
3) Was a surprise at first but you'll get used to it. Trains your situational awareness.
4) What?

Foxtrot39 · 12:09PM

Biggest pet peeve are the keys, make them stack so I can have a couple stored for trial while in a ball group instead of bailing on them the moment I got the silver boss to farm the other districts

Reivax · 1:23PM

I loved the Dune Ripper boss. Was probably annoying for people who still had default enemy damage colors and could not see where NOT to stand in the belly.

It was annoying to learn that I had to re-gather all keys to do a dungeon again, but it wasn't that big of a deal once I understood.

Only minor complaint was that the PvE quests were a pain to find the "target" sometimes. That big circle on the map barely helped.

Dojohoda · 2:33PM

It was wild and sometimes I enjoyed it.

Things to change?
Since grouping is essential for most of us, refine that a bit.
Perhaps allow group members to port closer to the crown after joining group. Such as, if crown is inside one of the 3 areas, let us port there, either the door or a platform close to crown, which ever is closer.
Allow all quests to be sharable.

Arunei · 3:00PM

Soarora wrote: »

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

Imo the night market was a huge failure, these are what shouldn't be done next time
(this is in my opinion and want to hear what you guys dont want next time)
1) Make it REQUIRE group play

ZOS has the numbers and they told us it wasn’t a failure. They were pleased with how much group finder saw use.

The only problems are the rewards (which they said they’re looking into) and the key system (which we haven’t had comment on).

To be fair ZOS told us numbers after one week to say it was getting a lot of activity, which was pointless because ALL new content still has a lot of activity after just one week. But I don't think they've said at all what activity was during the last couple weeks, unless it was in a livestream I missed.

karthrag_inak · 3:44PM

Khajiit apologizes ahead of time - he has very little to contribute to the topic of "What Not To do for the Night Market-type zones".

This one loved the Night Market event - he had high expectations, and even higher hopes, after the Wall Event, and in a surprising and delightful turn of events, they were exceeded in nearly every way.

This one is expressing a controversial opinion, perhaps, but Khajiit loved that this zone was so difficult and required grouping with strangers. Khajiit made 30 friends-list friends during Night Market event, grouping with folks he would have never met otherwise, and even gained a few excellent guildmates for his trading guild. This one had -never- used the Group Finder before for anything other than perhaps a few pug dungeons, but multiple times a day for every day of the event he would use it to find zone groups, and out of hundreds of groups he joined perhaps 3 or 4 had unpleasantness. Most were delightful!

To be honest, khajiit misses logging in early, going to NM zone and joining up in group finder to go kill Shai-halud or smoosh hundreds of mobs to satiate Dorfifar's bloodlust. As many times as khajiit fought in the zone - ~30k favor on one account, ~20k on the second - this one still was not tired of the event when it ended.

Khajiit did only get to experience delightful trial one time, but at least it was a successful run. Here he was limited by the availability of his Guild Mates. While the zone activities themselves were easily and routinely accomplished with PUG groups, the dungeons were just at the cusp of pug-iness. Khajiit attempted nearly 20 times with pugs to no avail, and it was only with a group of guildies that he was able to go through all 3 of the dungeons, and only 1 time at that. Granted, we also got 2 of the 3 dungeon accomplishments, and made it through them all in perhaps 30 minutes - they were certainly not -that- difficult - but they were just tough enough that PUGs were, at least for Khajiit, impossible.

Still, khajiit gives all claws up! 12/10, would Market again!

peacenote · 5:06PM

DarkStrifeYT wrote: »

Imo the night market was a huge failure, these are what shouldn't be done next time
(this is in my opinion and want to hear what you guys dont want next time)
1) Make it REQUIRE group play
2) Require keys for dungeon and trials
3) THE DAMN DUNERIPPER (im still mortified of that thing)
4) Complexity of reputation

I got quickly bored of it within a week.

I only agree with #2 although I'm not sure what your concern is with #4. I do wish the orbs lasted a little bit longer after fights, but I'm not sure what's what you mean. I am even Ok with the concept of keys but they have to be stackable, tradeable, obtainable with favor from a vendor, or SOMETHING, because the way the keys worked just ruined the teamwork aspect of the dungeons and trials.

Besides improving on the key design for next time, I'd like to see better rewards, I'd like to be able to see which area of the NM my grouped and guilded friends are in the group and guild list, I'd like one way wayshrines in the dungeons and trial, I'd like sharing quests to be easier, and I'd like the favor orbs to last a little bit longer. Also, personally, I don't think dungeons and trials should be limited availability because of the amount of reps it can take to learn, clear, and master the achievements, and I'd prefer that they were always available, but it's LESS of an issue if we receive confirmation that the NM will continue to be around and remain a permanent part of the game, on a rotation.

I do not believe it was a failure; I enjoyed the Night Market overall. I loved the group play aspect and how there was something for healers and tanks to do, but also... there was a portion of it that many people could do solo - some of the quests, races, puzzles, and easier mobs. Technically you could even enter the dungeons and trial by yourself, although I don't know if there are any builds out there where you could solo every fight and get all the keys completely alone. But it didn't REQUIRE group play the way a solo arena REQUIRES that you be completely solo without even a companion to enter. It is simply balanced and tuned for group play. There were no entry blockades, no restrictions... you're free to go in there solo and explore if you wish. Which to me was also a plus; I enjoyed trying to challenge myself a little by going in solo.

Malprave · 6:07PM

Possibly the best event Zos ever came up with. I had an absolute blast and I hope they don’t change a thing to satisfy a bunch of namby pambies.