Three-Sided Deathmatch

Udrath · June 14

3 teams is a lot better. 2-sided was nice at first but people just give up now after the first wipe.

Haki_7 · June 15

Moonspawn wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

And as far as 3 team BGs go, I will say this Chaosball event is dog water! The maps are awful for this. The existing 3 team maps are fine for Relic or Domination / Crazy King but not CB! .. having someone grab the ball on Quarry and then duck into a map crevice, using it to avoid damage because the attacks won’t register through the gap in the wood is nobody’s idea of good combat. ..

@NxJoeyD I'm sure ZOS could use help locating these map crevices and all the other places players use to cheese chaosballs.

That's a good idea. I'll see what I can do.

Domination, no risk of losing. Opponents were unable to reach the flags. Third critical flaw of 2-sided:

Crazy King, no risk of losing:

Relic, no risk of losing. Promptly giving up after losing one relic. Fourth flaw:

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 210: Waiting 23 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://youtu.be/ZWsC1VacnS0

Chaosball 1 and 2, no risk of losing. Pointless staring contest with ball carriers:

Deathmatch 1, no risk of losing:

Deathmatch 2, no risk of winning:

Moonspawn · June 15

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

And as far as 3 team BGs go, I will say this Chaosball event is dog water! The maps are awful for this. The existing 3 team maps are fine for Relic or Domination / Crazy King but not CB! .. having someone grab the ball on Quarry and then duck into a map crevice, using it to avoid damage because the attacks won’t register through the gap in the wood is nobody’s idea of good combat. ..

@NxJoeyD I'm sure ZOS could use help locating these map crevices and all the other places players use to cheese chaosballs.

That's a good idea. I'll see what I can do.

Sooner or later, someone will have to do it.

Haki_7 · June 16

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

And as far as 3 team BGs go, I will say this Chaosball event is dog water! The maps are awful for this. The existing 3 team maps are fine for Relic or Domination / Crazy King but not CB! .. having someone grab the ball on Quarry and then duck into a map crevice, using it to avoid damage because the attacks won’t register through the gap in the wood is nobody’s idea of good combat. ..

@NxJoeyD I'm sure ZOS could use help locating these map crevices and all the other places players use to cheese chaosballs.

That's a good idea. I'll see what I can do.

Sooner or later, someone will have to do it.

Is it just me, or are people not cheesing chaosballs like they used to?

Crazy King, no way to win:

Deathmatch 1 & 2, no way to lose:

Chaosball 1 & 2, no way to lose. The usual soul gazing session with ball carriers:

Domination, no way to lose. All their points came from backcapping empty flags:

Relic, no way to lose. Throwing the towel after losing one relic. Fourth flaw. Green-3 ditched his team to go around looking for newcomers. First flaw:

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 211: Waiting 16 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://youtu.be/wVVCL80CkAo

Moonspawn · June 16

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

NxJoeyD wrote: »

And as far as 3 team BGs go, I will say this Chaosball event is dog water! The maps are awful for this. The existing 3 team maps are fine for Relic or Domination / Crazy King but not CB! .. having someone grab the ball on Quarry and then duck into a map crevice, using it to avoid damage because the attacks won’t register through the gap in the wood is nobody’s idea of good combat. ..

@NxJoeyD I'm sure ZOS could use help locating these map crevices and all the other places players use to cheese chaosballs.

That's a good idea. I'll see what I can do.

Sooner or later, someone will have to do it.

Is it just me, or are people not cheesing chaosballs like they used to?

Not cheesing like they used to?

Haki_7 · June 17

@NxJoeyD wrote:

And as far as 3 team BGs go, I will say this Chaosball event is dog water!

Nearly 100% of my 8v8 cb matches are spent staring at ball carriers close to spawn. In 3-sided, I usually get unpredictable non-stop fighting concentrated on the ball.

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 212: Waiting 16 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://youtu.be/Hu5mjicOCBg

Chaosball 1 and 2, no possibility of losing. Pointless staring contest with ball carriers:

Domination, no possibility of losing:

Deathmatch 1, no possibility of losing:

Deathmatch 2, no possibility of winning. Half the team gave up after a single death. Wouldn't happen in 3-sided. Fourth critical flaw of 2-sided:

Crazy King, no possibility of losing. Teammates spawncamp while I run around trying to end the snoozefest. Third flaw:

Relic, no possibility of losing:

Moonspawn · June 17

Haki_7 wrote: »

@NxJoeyD wrote:

And as far as 3 team BGs go, I will say this Chaosball event is dog water!

Nearly 100% of my 8v8 cb matches are spent staring at ball carriers close to spawn. In 3-sided, I usually get unpredictable non-stop fighting concentrated on the ball.

It's how every chaosball match would be if the easily solvable critical flaws of 3-sided were ever adressed.

Haki_7 · June 18

@Darkmage1337 wrote:

I currently believe the best solution for BGs would be this:

3-sided (solo or grouped), unranked, and top-menu option.
2-sided (solo or grouped), ranked, and bottom-menu option.

I enjoy both variations and all maps/modes in each of them.
BUT, I believe the best/most-fun was with the 3-sided format.

Both formats can coexist with the ESO BG PvP community.
It is simple. Competitive-play? 2-sided. Casual-play? 3-sided.
So, remove the current casual 2-sided and bring back 3-sided.

Which one is the current casual 2-sided? 8v8?

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

@Avran_Sylt wrote:

@Moonspawn
Regarding the 4 flaws of 2-sided:`
1. What has changed about positioning and target selection? You still want to try and focus down on those that seem like they take more damage than the rest, CC healers, layer burst, rushdown squishies or backline archers while being sure to be mindful of where you're at so as to not get swarmed and focused (unless built for it).

I've been thinking for a while now that the first flaw should be rewritten.

''1. Since you can't use one team against another anymore, it's difficult for BG regulars to engage each other without discarding everything they know about positioning and target selection.''

Rewritten how?

And why?

The description of the first flaw makes it seem like the possibility of being sandwiched is the only factor that facilitates fights between BG regulars. The part about the target order going from 1-4, instead of 1-8, is just as important, but it's hidden at the bottom of the spoiler tab.

Deathmatch 1 and 2, inevitable victories:

Chaosball 1 and 2, inevitable victories:

Crazy King, inevitable victory. Opponents collected 75 deaths:

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 213: Waiting 25 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://youtu.be/o2lyZgaXiOQ

Relic, inevitable victory. Promptly throwing the towel after losing one relic. Fourth critical flaw of 2-sided:

Domination, inevitable defeat. We could barely reach the flags, let alone capture them:

Moonspawn · June 18

Haki_7 wrote: »

@Darkmage1337 wrote:

I currently believe the best solution for BGs would be this:

3-sided (solo or grouped), unranked, and top-menu option.
2-sided (solo or grouped), ranked, and bottom-menu option.

I enjoy both variations and all maps/modes in each of them.
BUT, I believe the best/most-fun was with the 3-sided format.

Both formats can coexist with the ESO BG PvP community.
It is simple. Competitive-play? 2-sided. Casual-play? 3-sided.
So, remove the current casual 2-sided and bring back 3-sided.

Which one is the current casual 2-sided? 8v8?

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

@Avran_Sylt wrote:

@Moonspawn
Regarding the 4 flaws of 2-sided:`
1. What has changed about positioning and target selection? You still want to try and focus down on those that seem like they take more damage than the rest, CC healers, layer burst, rushdown squishies or backline archers while being sure to be mindful of where you're at so as to not get swarmed and focused (unless built for it).

I've been thinking for a while now that the first flaw should be rewritten.

''1. Since you can't use one team against another anymore, it's difficult for BG regulars to engage each other without discarding everything they know about positioning and target selection.''

Rewritten how?

And why?

The description of the first flaw makes it seem like the possibility of being sandwiched is the only factor that facilitates fights between BG regulars. The part about the target order going from 1-4, instead of 1-8, is just as important, but it's hidden at the bottom of the spoiler tab.

The first flaw (rigidity of target order) is also influenced by the third, which encourages BG regulars to spawncamp and pushes them to ''fight'' on opposite ends of the map.

I'm not sure how to write all that in the description. Any suggestions?

Haki_7 · June 20

@Demonwolff wrote:

Haki_7 wrote: »

What is the meaning of ''zero damage ball carries'' and ''base jumping''?

Zero Damage ball carries are where the ball bugs out and fails to damage the carrier at all. Base jumping is where the Ball Carrier is able to "magically" return to their spawn. I didn't mention the one where the ball disappears and you cant see the person carrying it lol

In the hundreds of matches I played during the 3-sided chaosball event, I never once saw this happen. Did you?

Crazy King, 100% guaranteed to lose. We were unable to reach the objective:

Deathmatch 1 and 2, 100% guaranteed to win. Once the target order is identified, it's a matter of pointlessly going through the motions until the end of the match. First critical flaw of 2-sided:

Chaosball 1 and 2, 100% guaranteed to win. The usual staring contest with ball carriers:

Domination, 100% guaranteed to win:

Relic, 100% guaranteed to win:

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 214: Waiting 16 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://youtu.be/_OnQ3yUPBsM

Darkmage1337 · June 20

Haki_7 wrote: »

@Darkmage1337 wrote:

I currently believe the best solution for BGs would be this:

3-sided (solo or grouped), unranked, and top-menu option.
2-sided (solo or grouped), ranked, and bottom-menu option.

I enjoy both variations and all maps/modes in each of them.
BUT, I believe the best/most-fun was with the 3-sided format.

Both formats can coexist with the ESO BG PvP community.
It is simple. Competitive-play? 2-sided. Casual-play? 3-sided.
So, remove the current casual 2-sided and bring back 3-sided.

Which one is the current casual 2-sided? 8v8?

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

@Avran_Sylt wrote:

@Moonspawn
Regarding the 4 flaws of 2-sided:`
1. What has changed about positioning and target selection? You still want to try and focus down on those that seem like they take more damage than the rest, CC healers, layer burst, rushdown squishies or backline archers while being sure to be mindful of where you're at so as to not get swarmed and focused (unless built for it).

I've been thinking for a while now that the first flaw should be rewritten.

''1. Since you can't use one team against another anymore, it's difficult for BG regulars to engage each other without discarding everything they know about positioning and target selection.''

Rewritten how?

And why?

The description of the first flaw makes it seem like the possibility of being sandwiched is the only factor that facilitates fights between BG regulars. The part about the target order going from 1-4, instead of 1-8, is just as important, but it's hidden at the bottom of the spoiler tab.

Deathmatch 1 and 2, inevitable victories:

Chaosball 1 and 2, inevitable victories:

Crazy King, inevitable victory. Opponents collected 75 deaths:

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 213: Waiting 25 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)
https://youtu.be/o2lyZgaXiOQ

Relic, inevitable victory. Promptly throwing the towel after losing one relic. Fourth critical flaw of 2-sided:

Domination, inevitable defeat. We could barely reach the flags, let alone capture them:

Ranked battlegrounds should only be 4v4.
Ranked 4v4v4 has awful validity due to being 3-sided.
4v4v4 should be unranked-only, and always should be.
4v4v4 and 8v8 should be casual, with both unranked.
If 4v4v4 and 8v8 are too much, then they can alternate weeks.

Moonspawn · June 20

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

@L_Nici wrote:

Its pretty easy to see what kind is better by the number of players taking part.

We had two 3 sided BG Events this year and both times you instantly got into one, never waited more than one minute on a BG that did not consist of the same 16 people just mixed differently. To be fair the Domination one was better as people did not exploit Shattered Path yet, still I had more fun with the 3 sided relic hunt too than I ever did with any 2 sided BG. 2 sided BGs get decided by which team wipes first, because then it just gets camped at spawn.

One thing I noticed about the relic event was how often every team ended up holding each other's relics without being able to deliver. Didn't that used to be extremely rare?

Are you referring to the situation below?

That's the one. I remember taking a bunch of pictures the first few times it happened. I'll see if I can find them.

How is that coming along? If possible, I'd like to update the relic suggestion with those pictures. Replacing the image I drew in Paint with something familiar should make it much easier for people to understand.

Haki_7 · 10:31AM

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

@L_Nici wrote:

Its pretty easy to see what kind is better by the number of players taking part.

We had two 3 sided BG Events this year and both times you instantly got into one, never waited more than one minute on a BG that did not consist of the same 16 people just mixed differently. To be fair the Domination one was better as people did not exploit Shattered Path yet, still I had more fun with the 3 sided relic hunt too than I ever did with any 2 sided BG. 2 sided BGs get decided by which team wipes first, because then it just gets camped at spawn.

One thing I noticed about the relic event was how often every team ended up holding each other's relics without being able to deliver. Didn't that used to be extremely rare?

Are you referring to the situation below?

That's the one. I remember taking a bunch of pictures the first few times it happened. I'll see if I can find them.

How is that coming along? If possible, I'd like to update the relic suggestion with those pictures. Replacing the image I drew in Paint with something familiar should make it much easier for people to understand.

In my opinion, 3-sided Capture the Relic only works when this happens:

Destruction of Battlegrounds Chapter 215: Waiting 18 minutes for a lopsided match (Solo 8v8 PC/EU)

https://youtu.be/qzTSjdSwVXI

Deathmatch 1 & 2, unavoidable victories:

Relic, unavoidable victory. Despite our best efforts, we were unable to put an end to the lopsided snoozefest, so the ''fun'' went on for the entire 15 minutes and the enemy team died over 100 times. I'd like to thank ZOS for using increased rewards as bait to lure players to the meat grinder:

Crazy King, unavoidable defeat. All of our points came from backcapping empty flags:

Domination, unavoidable victory. They couldn't even reach the flags:

Chaosball 1 & 2, unavoidable victories.

Moonspawn · 9:00PM

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

Moonspawn wrote: »

Haki_7 wrote: »

@L_Nici wrote:

Its pretty easy to see what kind is better by the number of players taking part.

We had two 3 sided BG Events this year and both times you instantly got into one, never waited more than one minute on a BG that did not consist of the same 16 people just mixed differently. To be fair the Domination one was better as people did not exploit Shattered Path yet, still I had more fun with the 3 sided relic hunt too than I ever did with any 2 sided BG. 2 sided BGs get decided by which team wipes first, because then it just gets camped at spawn.

One thing I noticed about the relic event was how often every team ended up holding each other's relics without being able to deliver. Didn't that used to be extremely rare?

Are you referring to the situation below?

That's the one. I remember taking a bunch of pictures the first few times it happened. I'll see if I can find them.

How is that coming along? If possible, I'd like to update the relic suggestion with those pictures. Replacing the image I drew in Paint with something familiar should make it much easier for people to understand.

In my opinion, 3-sided Capture the Relic only works when this happens:

In theory, that's how most matches would play out if at least 3 players from each team stayed together all the time.