I'm looking at you elden hollow or whatev its calledrunning down the waterfall to get to the quest starter and the runners pulled agro as they ran past leaving you alone to fight your way through them to get to the quest starter.

Daoin wrote: »

why does nobody just admit yet that end game players join normal and vet dundeons to flame on people and get new players flaming

I don't even read the chat. I don't flame and i don't care if someone flames me. I do not say hello, nor ggty, i just make a beeline to the end boss and that is that. Do not blame me, blame ZOS, this is the way the game is designed.

One thing I've learned to do is accept quests ahead of time. Only a small number of base games are much of an issue. Some have been patched, some maybe not.

As long as there is no voice chat, there will always be some comm barriers for me. Don't hate the player, it is the game.

Holy sweeping generalizations, Batman.

I'm a little over 1,800 CP, been playing since closed beta. Have taken maybe a year and a half total hiatus from the game over the years for a variety of reasons. I'm a vet and fairly experienced, but I don't enjoy doing harder or more time-consuming content. I mostly RP and when I do content it's usually questing to unlock things like Houses or event stuff like Witches Fest. When I have new characters to level, I'll do Normal Randoms because again, I don't want to do harder content even though I'm entirely capable of it. I prefer sticking with easier things.

I don't want to be forced into content I don't like doing, thank you. Just because I'm a vet doesn't mean squat. I don't run ahead when people are questing and if I see someone hanging back for whatever reason, I usually stay closer to them than anyone who's charging ahead.

Is it annoying when people run ahead at Mach Jesus when you're trying to do the quest? Yes, it very much is. But at the same time is that going to be the only time you ever run that dungeon ever in the rest of the time you play the game? No. You can always finish the quest another time. I still think people who want to rush should also have the "if you want to play X way form your own group" thing put at them like it's put on those who don't want to rush through a dungeon, but they can't be forced into doing that any more than you can be forced into doing it, OP.

""High level"" does not mean someone is capable of playing harder content, either. ""High level"" only indicates how long someone has played, it does NOT indicate skill or ability. So please don't sit here and say that all ""high level"" people should be banned from doing general content in the game when not nearly all of us act like jerks. It's highly ironic that you claim people just wanting to play the game are selfish, when you wanting a whole group of people banned just because of how some people act is just as selfish.

Quest pickup for DLCs: If you're in a dlc dungeon and you cannot pick up the quest because players have already started the dungeon, open the Stories (navigate to Collections, and then select Stories), choose the dlc dungeon you are in, and accept the quest there.

DoofusMax wrote: »

I'm going to chime back in on this because it just happened: spent 15-ish minutes in the PC EU queue for the daily random (normal), queue popped to Moonhunter Keep, immediately asked "quest, please?", speedrunners at the front blasted in as soon as the door opened, tried to pick up the quest on my own (with another lowbie also trying), and we couldn't even get the quest before the speedrunners were pulling us into a boss fight. I said a few choice words in group chat, left the group, left the instance, and found that I couldn't even requeue for 13 more minutes. This was one of the extremely rare times when I actually rage-quit a game.

ZOS, you created the incentive that ruins this stuff for a lot of us. It's on you to either disincentivize or provide the workaround. And it's not like I've never done Moonhunter Keep before, so it was minimally the 5-ish extra seconds that SOMEBODY could not spare to let me and another lowbie get the skill point. Fix what you broke!

You can take the DLC quest at anytime from the Collections -> Stories menu. Before the dungeon, during the dungeon it doesn't matter.

The issue in the base game dungeons is there is actual dialogue to go through, or things to interact with. Addressing that problem will fix quests being broken.

If someone wants to stand and read all the dialogue, as has already been said, random groups are not the place to do that.

DoofusMax wrote: »

I'm going to chime back in on this because it just happened: spent 15-ish minutes in the PC EU queue for the daily random (normal), queue popped to Moonhunter Keep, immediately asked "quest, please?", speedrunners at the front blasted in as soon as the door opened, tried to pick up the quest on my own (with another lowbie also trying), and we couldn't even get the quest before the speedrunners were pulling us into a boss fight. I said a few choice words in group chat, left the group, left the instance, and found that I couldn't even requeue for 13 more minutes. This was one of the extremely rare times when I actually rage-quit a game.

ZOS, you created the incentive that ruins this stuff for a lot of us. It's on you to either disincentivize or provide the workaround. And it's not like I've never done Moonhunter Keep before, so it was minimally the 5-ish extra seconds that SOMEBODY could not spare to let me and another lowbie get the skill point. Fix what you broke!

And these "ImImbasuperduperyoucanjustleaveifyoudontlikeit" people, ruining dungeons and public dungeons for normal players are right now crying about normal players ruining their hardmode overland experience. It's quite funny actually :-)

FurryCandyHearts wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

DoofusMax wrote: »

I'm going to chime back in on this because it just happened: spent 15-ish minutes in the PC EU queue for the daily random (normal), queue popped to Moonhunter Keep, immediately asked "quest, please?", speedrunners at the front blasted in as soon as the door opened, tried to pick up the quest on my own (with another lowbie also trying), and we couldn't even get the quest before the speedrunners were pulling us into a boss fight. I said a few choice words in group chat, left the group, left the instance, and found that I couldn't even requeue for 13 more minutes. This was one of the extremely rare times when I actually rage-quit a game.

ZOS, you created the incentive that ruins this stuff for a lot of us. It's on you to either disincentivize or provide the workaround. And it's not like I've never done Moonhunter Keep before, so it was minimally the 5-ish extra seconds that SOMEBODY could not spare to let me and another lowbie get the skill point. Fix what you broke!

You can take the DLC quest at anytime from the Collections -> Stories menu. Before the dungeon, during the dungeon it doesn't matter.

The issue in the base game dungeons is there is actual dialogue to go through, or things to interact with. Addressing that problem will fix quests being broken.

If someone wants to stand and read all the dialogue, as has already been said, random groups are not the place to do that.

IF I LIT ALL THOSE STRAW MEN ON FIRE IN THIS THREAD THE FORUM WOULD BURN DOWN

You clearly do not know what the term "straw man argument" means. Instead of throwing out buzzwords, perhaps you should acknowledge the sheer ridiculous irony in your demands. You wanting people being banned from specific content because you don't like how some people act is INFINITELY more selfish than vet players simply wanting to play the game is somehow supposed to be.

Also you're completely ignoring that banning anyone from doing Normal Dungeons could be preventing people from doing content they LITERALLY PAID FOR in regards to Dungeon DLCs. Yeah, I'm sure plenty of people would want half the content from those DLCs being taken from them because of selfish players who think everyone should be punished because of how SOME people act.

Last night I was trying to do a few Random Dailies to get Skill Points for the main character of my alt account, since I hit level 50 and can't get them from leveling up now that I've reached CP. I got into a group with three new players, all of them sub 30. I know they were new players because one of them mentioned they were; we'd done one Dungeon and I asked if they needed to do more since like I said, I need those Skill Points now and on that character have only done about five Dungeons so far. One said yes and they were doing them in order, another asked how the boosts for Random Dailies worked. I explained and then mentioned if they didn't care about the experience boost and all that one can queue directly into specific Dungeons. Another asked how to do that since they were new.

The second Dungeon we got into was Darkshade Caverns. In both Dungeons I didn't rush ahead, I didn't drag them through to the end. I'd wait for them (and they all waited for each other as well). At one point they missed a quest step in Darkshade where you have to talk to the one lady after the one guy (idr their names) reveals he's an ass. They'd gone on to the next Boss and after we beat it I let them know they needed to go back and talk to that woman to progress the quest. One of them thanked me for letting them know.

I had to log off after that Dungeon, as it was late and I had other stuff to do like clearing out a Guild Bank. I'd have been more than happy to run more Dungeons with them and explain stuff and make sure they didn't miss quest things if it hadn't been like 11 at night. And like I said, I've been here since closed beta. I am NOT someone who rushes, who drags new or low level people through Dungeons, who leaves other folks behind because I want to go go go go.

But yeah, go on and tell me how somehow my actions are a straw man argument against you acting like every vet player is awful and bad and impatient and needs to be banned from Normal Dungeons. Or the sweeping generalization you made about how us vet players apparently magically ALL asked for/wanted harder content (we didn't).

DoofusMax wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

You can take the DLC quest at anytime from the Collections -> Stories menu. Before the dungeon, during the dungeon it doesn't matter.

Or the speedrunners could just stand idly by for a couple of seconds while someone gets the quest. That works, too.

I agree that piddling through the dialogue and exploring every nook and cranny of a dungeon is better suited to something other than the Dungeon Finder. I disagree that someone is going to write the Great American Novel, eliminate poverty, or cure cancer in the couple of seconds that it took to let someone pick up a quest.

I'm not the one who wrote that. I specifically said earlier in the thread that I think if you can't wait a few seconds it's rather rude. I just don't think the expectation should be for people to listen to all the dialogue and go slowly as possible, since that's not how most people run dungeons. If you want an unusual run, make a group. I used to for the stories. Anyone can.

This isn't a big problem on PCNA. I've never seen any group decline giving a player time to complete their quest when they asked. I even asked a group once if we could backtrack to an optional boss I needed and they said no problem and helped. This doesn't mean some groups don't run ahead anyway, but groups I've been in have been very accommodating.

Maybe it's different on different servers.

DoofusMax wrote: »

Gabriel_H wrote: »

You can take the DLC quest at anytime from the Collections -> Stories menu. Before the dungeon, during the dungeon it doesn't matter.

Or the speedrunners could just stand idly by for a couple of seconds while someone gets the quest. That works, too.

Or you could just take the quest from the Collections menu. Instead, you didn't do that. I'm presuming because you didn't know you could. So you had (what was) an unnecessary rage quit, and now you are feeling embarrassed there was a simple solution you could enact yourself without ZOS having to recode entire systems.

Edit: Oh and

FurryCandyHearts wrote: »

IF I LIT ALL THOSE STRAW MEN ON FIRE IN THIS THREAD THE FORUM WOULD BURN DOWN

A straw man is a logical fallacy and rhetorical device in which someone distorts, exaggerates, or oversimplifies an opponent's argument to make it easier to defeat. I did none of that. I told you a simple solution to the problem you were having, that wouldn't be a problem in the case you mentioned, had you done that.

SilverBride wrote: »

This isn't a big problem on PCNA. I've never seen any group decline giving a player time to complete their quest when they asked. I even asked a group once if we could backtrack to an optional boss I needed and they said no problem and helped. This doesn't mean some groups don't run ahead anyway, but groups I've been in have been very accommodating.

Maybe it's different on different servers.

Most groups are considerate, but I have had several situations where I couldn't pick up a quest in the base game dungeons because people rushed and cleared updates before the NPCs were done giving speeches. I even had one group refuse to do a boss in a dlc dungeon I needed for the daily undaunted pledge.

Some people are exceptionally selfish, but they are the exception not the norm when it comes to the extreme end.

SilverBride wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

This isn't a big problem on PCNA. I've never seen any group decline giving a player time to complete their quest when they asked. I even asked a group once if we could backtrack to an optional boss I needed and they said no problem and helped. This doesn't mean some groups don't run ahead anyway, but groups I've been in have been very accommodating.

Maybe it's different on different servers.

Most groups are considerate, but I have had several situations where I couldn't pick up a quest in the base game dungeons because people rushed and cleared updates before the NPCs were done giving speeches. I even had one group refuse to do a boss in a dlc dungeon I needed for the daily undaunted pledge.

Some people are exceptionally selfish, but they are the exception not the norm when it comes to the extreme end.

This brings up 2 observations.

1. The real problem is that the NPCs talk way too long and don't allow the player to just click and move on. It would be nice if they would adjust these so they don't hold up the whole group. And/or autocomplete that part of the quest when a boss is engaged so the quest isn't broken.

2. Why is the player that wants a fast run seen as the selfish one? Why isn't the player that wants to hold up the whole group seen as just as selfish? Both are trying to meet their own personal objectives at the cost of the other.

1. I agree, I feel the base game quests should be redone like the DLC ones where they realized that the quests don't work well with pug groups.

2. I think if someone asks for a boss to finish a pledge, outright refusing is just rude and selfish. I also think if someone asks to wait 1 minute so they can grab the quest and the group refuses, that is selfish too. Pugging means compromising where reasonable and I fail to see how someone saving 1 to 5 minutes of their time outweighs someone needing to queue again, especially as a DPS which takes forever.

I think not skipping bosses party members need for pledges/quests is a reasonable expectation to expect when doing your daily roulette - and I have never and would never behave otherwise.

SilverBride wrote: »

AScarlato wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

This brings up 2 observations.

1. The real problem is that the NPCs talk way too long and don't allow the player to just click and move on. It would be nice if they would adjust these so they don't hold up the whole group. And/or autocomplete that part of the quest when a boss is engaged so the quest isn't broken.

2. Why is the player that wants a fast run seen as the selfish one? Why isn't the player that wants to hold up the whole group seen as just as selfish? Both are trying to meet their own personal objectives at the cost of the other.

1. I agree, I feel the base game quests should be redone like the DLC ones where they realized that the quests don't work well with pug groups.

2. I think if someone asks for a boss to finish a pledge, outright refusing is just rude and selfish. I also think if someone asks to wait 1 minute so they can grab the quest and the group refuses, that is selfish too. Pugging means compromising where reasonable and I fail to see how someone saving 1 to 5 minutes of their time outweighs someone needing to queue again, especially as a DPS which takes forever.

2. I don't see it as selfish, just non accommodating. We don't know why they are refusing. Maybe they only have so much time. It may help if they say "Can't this time" or something but it doesn't mean they are being rude or selfish. And 1 minute feels like an hour where we are just standing around waiting.

We can agree to disagree. If you can't spare ONE MINUTE don't queue.

Also regardless of semantics the end result is the same - a negative experience for a member of your group because and this is not behavior we should be defending.

AScarlato wrote: »

We can agree to disagree. If you can't spare ONE MINUTE don't queue.

Also regardless of semantics the end result is the same - a negative experience for a member of your group because and this is not behavior we should be defending.

I never have a problem waiting for someone doing a quest. And by my experience players are normally very accommodating. I am just saying that one person trying to meet their own personal goal isn't any more selfish than another doing the same.

So I will agree to disagree on this point.

EDIT to add: I don't think either player is selfish. They are just 2 players each trying to meet their own objectives.