just did a dungeon run and im saying it again

CatalinaWineMixer2 · June 8

I share your frustrations Furry. Yes, I am one of the big dogs too. No one should be able to make someone else skip a quest or not be able to hand it in, random group or not. Ive even gone in there as a tank and been pulled because there is too much dps. In Vet dungeons. They run ahead of the Tank. I haven't done it yet, but when that happens I should just be leaving them to die when they try to pull me to the Boss.

Alternatively, if you run like they do as a Tank, you've got no Stamina when you get there. It is akin to skipping mechs. Its skipping game content and role requirements due to dps. And it's out of control. No one should be able to burn past mechanics. I can maybe see that in normal content but certainly not in Vet Dlc or HM dungeons.

Since Subclassing, Id say I see fake tanks and healers more than 50 percent of the time now. And in certain places its always going to result in a wipe and it's highly unlikely you're going to get someone to replace them. Or you have to wait and get penalized because THEY tried to cheat the system.

This is not really the Devs fault but I think they are aware of it. I believe their answer to it is the new Solo Dungeons.

Hapexamendios · June 8

Random queues, random people. You really can't expect everyone to be on the same page and unfortunately the ones that are usually set the pace are the ones who can decimate the content. The only real solutions are to solo it if you're able to, form your own group with friends or take your chances with the group finder rather than random queue. None are ideal, but that's really all you got at this point.

DenverRalphy · June 8

Food for thought.. If the solution is to stop relying on the dungeon finder to fill your group, then shouldn't that also mean the rewards for random daily dungeons are no longer necessary?

spartaxoxo · June 8

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Food for thought.. If the solution is to stop relying on the dungeon finder to fill your group, then shouldn't that also mean the rewards for random daily dungeons are no longer necessary?

No. Questing is just one objective out of multiple that a person may have for running and dungeon. The dungeon finder is to help people find others to help them achieve any goals they need in the dungeon not just one.

Hearing a quest in particular isn't all that conducive to a random group even if people weren't running ahead. But, things like getting your Undaunted keys or trying to find a particular piece of gear very much are.

DenverRalphy · June 8

spartaxoxo wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Food for thought.. If the solution is to stop relying on the dungeon finder to fill your group, then shouldn't that also mean the rewards for random daily dungeons are no longer necessary?

The dungeon finder is to help people find others to help them achieve any goals they need in the dungeon not just one.

Any goals except one apparently.

spartaxoxo · June 8

DenverRalphy wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

DenverRalphy wrote: »

Food for thought.. If the solution is to stop relying on the dungeon finder to fill your group, then shouldn't that also mean the rewards for random daily dungeons are no longer necessary?

The dungeon finder is to help people find others to help them achieve any goals they need in the dungeon not just one.

Any goals except one apparently.

Hearing quests isn't very possible even for a group who is willing to wait for you to grab it because even if they're willing nobody wants to make random strangers wait for them to listen to an NPC to give a long monologue.

As for just picking up the quest and just doing it while skipping the dialogue. Most dungeons allow for that and people will mostly wait when asked. The dungeons that don't should be fixed though

Renato90085 · June 8

i maybe have 3 year not queue rnd and any base game dungeon..
but i still join GF sometime someone need any help(normal/vet/hm/no dead /skin or skill style hunt)
but watch a new player spend 30 min finish FG1 really boring

AScarlato · June 8

I'm in the middle. I think people should be given enough time to wait for NPCS to ramble and get quest updates, but not for someone to listen to all dialogue without skipping. Not even letting people spam for quest updates is rude IMO, PUG or no.

I used to create story groups to listen to everything slowly, since it's time consuming and too far removed from a PUG's daily repeat run. I don't begrudge pugs not wanting to spend an hour especially if they already have done the quest.

SilverBride · June 8

I wonder if separate Quest Mode and Quick Run queues would be possible. Those that don't need the quest but enjoy slower runs would benefit from Quest Mode, too. This would add a lot to player satisfaction and may encourage more players to queue.

Lokiator · June 8

OccultNerd wrote: »

So you want high CP players banned from normal content? Okay then low CP players should be banned from all Vet content, that seems fair? Why should us that have trials gear and decent amount of CP carry low CP players through vet trials and vet dungeons?

I realize you're probably being sarcastic, but sometimes I think there ought to be some basic gatekeeping for veteran dungeons. For instance, a completion of normal difficulty.

It's quite astonishing the number of times I've gone to do a vet pledge dungeon and none of the other players have ever been in the dungeon before... They've got no idea of the mechanics and expect to be guided/carried through each boss encounter. Meanwhile, I just wanted a quick 3 keys, a weapon drop for the stickerbook, and maybe (if I'm lucky enough to group with 3 actual veterans) a deathless run achievement.

Gabriel_H · June 8

Toxic post complains about toxic

FurryCandyHearts wrote: »

these high level players with trial gear need to stop pissing in the kiddie pool so the rest of us can do the quest in the dungeon. They should be banned from niormal dungeons whil wearing training gear or playing toons above level 2k. Get out of the kiddie pool. You asked for harder content but then you ruin everyone elses play time with your desire to chase easy content. you wanted harder content so be required to do vet dungeons only.

I've seen 3600 CP players who don't even know they have skills and simply light attack all the time
I've seen 3600 CP players stand next to the tank on bosses who do frontal cleaves
I've seen 3600 CP players who have a taunt slotted when they aren't tanking

I've seen 300 CP players nail a hardmode first time
I've seen 300 CP players out-dps experienced 2500+ CP trial players
I've seen 300 CP players speed run through dungeons

heimdall14_9 · June 8

Gabriel_H wrote: »

Toxic post complains about toxic

FurryCandyHearts wrote: »

these high level players with trial gear need to stop pissing in the kiddie pool so the rest of us can do the quest in the dungeon. They should be banned from niormal dungeons whil wearing training gear or playing toons above level 2k. Get out of the kiddie pool. You asked for harder content but then you ruin everyone elses play time with your desire to chase easy content. you wanted harder content so be required to do vet dungeons only.

I've seen 3600 CP players who don't even know they have skills and simply light attack all the time
I've seen 3600 CP players stand next to the tank on bosses who do frontal cleaves
I've seen 3600 CP players who have a taunt slotted when they aren't tanking

I've seen 300 CP players nail a hardmode first time
I've seen 300 CP players out-dps experienced 2500+ CP trial players
I've seen 300 CP players speed run through dungeons

over the last 3 years ive seen more high CP players playing BADLY then i have lower CP players thats a 100% fact ...
that 1 3600cp in BGs that just stands at spawn thank you , you just became useful as ive even see it in BGs lol 😂

ivaylo.krumoveb17_ESO · June 8

FurryCandyHearts wrote: »

Gederic wrote: »

Can't believe all those toxic raiders are also allowed to do their random normal daily for transmutes and xp too. Should probably just ban them from the game entirely at this point.

they can do that on VET and not be selfish

How am i being selfish for wanting to get my transmutes as fast as humanly possible? And clearing that dungeon for you in under 5 min. And who are you to decide what is allowed for me to play?

Athory · June 8

ivaylo.krumoveb17_ESO wrote: »

How am i being selfish for wanting to get my transmutes as fast as humanly possible? And clearing that dungeon for you in under 5 min. And who are you to decide what is allowed for me to play?

But you have the right to force others to play your way?

heimdall14_9 · June 8

ivaylo.krumoveb17_ESO wrote: »

FurryCandyHearts wrote: »

Gederic wrote: »

Can't believe all those toxic raiders are also allowed to do their random normal daily for transmutes and xp too. Should probably just ban them from the game entirely at this point.

they can do that on VET and not be selfish

How am i being selfish for wanting to get my transmutes as fast as humanly possible? And clearing that dungeon for you in under 5 min. And who are you to decide what is allowed for me to play?

i highlighted the part that 99% of players that just run to the last boss fails to do

OccultNerd · June 8

Lokiator wrote: »

OccultNerd wrote: »

So you want high CP players banned from normal content? Okay then low CP players should be banned from all Vet content, that seems fair? Why should us that have trials gear and decent amount of CP carry low CP players through vet trials and vet dungeons?

I realize you're probably being sarcastic, but sometimes I think there ought to be some basic gatekeeping for veteran dungeons. For instance, a completion of normal difficulty.

It's quite astonishing the number of times I've gone to do a vet pledge dungeon and none of the other players have ever been in the dungeon before... They've got no idea of the mechanics and expect to be guided/carried through each boss encounter. Meanwhile, I just wanted a quick 3 keys, a weapon drop for the stickerbook, and maybe (if I'm lucky enough to group with 3 actual veterans) a deathless run achievement.

Yes I was being sarcastic 😂

but I also agree with what you have posted, maybe Devs should change it so players can only do the Vet version of a dungeon if they have completed the normal version atleast once. I have like 3 vet dungeons I haven't completed and have qued for those specifically to end up in a group with someone that's a new player like 2xx CP and the other players just leave because they know full well that low CP guy is going to be dead most of the time/ignoring advice.

I joined a Vet DSA run through gf a few days ago and was trying to explain mechs to a low CP guy who had never even done it on normal and he just wouldn't listen, I was more than happy to help the group and expected to be in there a while but again when someone hasn't done normal, doesn't listen and hasn't even read a guide then what is the point....it ruins everyone's experience and wastes their time, so maybe vet arenas, trials and dungeons should require players to complete on normal first.

Doc45 · June 8

If it's just one player running ahead, there's always the option to vote to kick. If it doesn't pass, you can stick with the group or leave and queue for another. Sometimes others are happy to be carried through fast, and sometimes the others will agree, and the kick goes through. The devs put it there for a reason. Don't be afraid to use it.

thorwyn · June 8

But you have the right to force others to play your way?

"Others" have the option to /votekick the player if they don't like the playstyle. That's what it's for.
And if that doesn't happen, chances are that the one quester is the minority, trying to force their playstyle on others. This funny "play how you want" mantra works both ways.

frogthroat · June 8

There's first solo dungeon modes coming at the end of the year and they are planning on a story mode. Pretty sure the story mode will make the quests repeatable. So either form a group in group finder for the stories, ask your guild/friends, or wait for the story mode to be added. The fix is coming.

CP means nothing. It only tells us roughly how long the person has played, but not how well.

RND is also a great way to level up skill lines because you don't need all the skill slots to complete the dungeon.

It's also an effective way to get transmutes. And if I want more transmutes, I want them fast. Running a standard vet dungeon is not more interesting than normal dungeon, but normal difficulty is faster. If you say you have a quest, I can wait so as to not break the quest (like in Volenfell) but I am not there for a story session. It goes both ways. I want to you to complete the quest, but I don't want to wait for you to listen to each and every line of dialog. But that's just me. Not everyone wants to wait even that little. If you go to a random dungeon, expect random.

And no, I or any other end game raider I know have not asked for more difficult overland mode. I think that is more what overland questers have asked for. You asked for it and you got it. Has nothing to do with us raiders.

But there's something that does annoy me. I don't mind speedrunners because if I am there I want it done fast, too. But for the love of the divines, kill the ads you aggro. If I am healing or especially tanking, the reason why you don't get that optimised tanking is you, sloppy speedrunners. I will not be changing my sets based on trash or boss because sloppy speedrunners leave aggroed enemies alive and run ahead. Then we are sneaking in front of a door trying to get in because we are in combat and I can't switch to boss setup for the same reason. Sloppy speedrunners slow us down.

marcbf · June 8

Whenever I see a player without CP in a dungeon I ask if anyone needs to do the quest.

Truth be told, just because I have (relatively) high CP doesn't mean I'm not the one holding the group back.

Daoin · June 8

frogthroat wrote: »

There's first solo dungeon modes coming at the end of the year and they are planning on a story mode. Pretty sure the story mode will make the quests repeatable. So either form a group in group finder for the stories, ask your guild/friends, or wait for the story mode to be added. The fix is coming.

CP means nothing. It only tells us roughly how long the person has played, but not how well.

RND is also a great way to level up skill lines because you don't need all the skill slots to complete the dungeon.

It's also an effective way to get transmutes. And if I want more transmutes, I want them fast. Running a standard vet dungeon is not more interesting than normal dungeon, but normal difficulty is faster. If you say you have a quest, I can wait so as to not break the quest (like in Volenfell) but I am not there for a story session. It goes both ways. I want to you to complete the quest, but I don't want to wait for you to listen to each and every line of dialog. But that's just me. Not everyone wants to wait even that little. If you go to a random dungeon, expect random.

And no, I or any other end game raider I know have not asked for more difficult overland mode. I think that is more what overland questers have asked for. You asked for it and you got it. Has nothing to do with us raiders.

But there's something that does annoy me. I don't mind speedrunners because if I am there I want it done fast, too. But for the love of the divines, kill the ads you aggro. If I am healing or especially tanking, the reason why you don't get that optimised tanking is you, sloppy speedrunners. I will not be changing my sets based on trash or boss because sloppy speedrunners leave aggroed enemies alive and run ahead. Then we are sneaking in front of a door trying to get in because we are in combat and I can't switch to boss setup for the same reason. Sloppy speedrunners slow us down.

you mean any end game telegraphed fight corresponder ?

Daoin · June 8

FurryCandyHearts wrote: »

these high level players with trial gear need to stop pissing in the kiddie pool so the rest of us can do the quest in the dungeon. They should be banned from niormal dungeons whil wearing training gear or playing toons above level 2k. Get out of the kiddie pool. You asked for harder content but then you ruin everyone elses play time with your desire to chase easy content. you wanted harder content so be required to do vet dungeons only.

well said

Daoin · June 8

thorwyn wrote: »

But you have the right to force others to play your way?

"Others" have the option to /votekick the player if they don't like the playstyle. That's what it's for.
And if that doesn't happen, chances are that the one quester is the minority, trying to force their playstyle on others. This funny "play how you want" mantra works both ways.

Alas, absoluteky everyone also has the option to use the group finder to ask for assist in a specific skill style, while randoms should expect random playstyles

Daoin · June 8

why does nobody just admit yet that end game players join normal and vet dundeons to flame on people and get new players flaming

FurryCandyHearts · June 8

Daoin wrote: »

why does nobody just admit yet that end game players join normal and vet dundeons to flame on people and get new players flaming

YEP

frogthroat · June 8

Daoin wrote: »

why does nobody just admit yet that end game players join normal and vet dundeons to flame on people and get new players flaming

Bold of you to assume players care about you or the random dungeons beyond the transmutes and XP.

Daily randoms are an effective way to gain transmutes and XP. That's pretty much it. We may have been grouped together at one point, I wouldn't know, I have not paid any attention. I just want those transmutes and XP.

Nemesis7884 · June 8

Topics ala " these players dont play like i want them to so they should be banned" neither conductive to an improvement, your own entertainment or the community spirit...
Solo dungeons are coming and a temporary fix can be that zos removes any downtime or delay talking to quest givers (most modern dungeons are no issue as you usually only talk in the beginning once but some older ones have problematic mechanics...madness, volenfell for example).

Daoin · June 8

frogthroat wrote: »

Daoin wrote: »

why does nobody just admit yet that end game players join normal and vet dundeons to flame on people and get new players flaming

Bold of you to assume players care about you or the random dungeons beyond the transmutes and XP.

Daily randoms are an effective way to gain transmutes and XP. That's pretty much it. We may have been grouped together at one point, I wouldn't know, I have not paid any attention. I just want those transmutes and XP.

yes strange indeed

thorwyn · June 8

Alas, absoluteky everyone also has the option to use the group finder to ask for assist in a specific skill style, while randoms should expect random playstyles

Absolutely everyone has access to the enhanced group finder, where they can state SPECIFICALLY what they are expecting from a run. Yet they keep spinning the wheel of fortune, acting all surprised that there are other play styles out there. Now, before the usual reflex argument sets in: speedrunners don't need the enhanced group finder, because they expect nothing from their group. They are ok with any composition.

why does nobody just admit yet that end game players join normal and vet dundeons to flame on people and get new players flaming

The idea that high CP players are wasting their game time in random normals because they want to flame low level palyers is just delusional. But it fits nicely into the narratives of players like you and OP. Always blame others. Never spend even a minute or a thought into the question what you could do to enhance your playing experience.

Let's remove transmutes from the normal dungeons and lock them behind veteran content. Good luck finding a low level group in under 2 hours. Or getting those transmute crystals to adjust your first set of gear.

Daoin · June 8

thorwyn wrote: »

Alas, absoluteky everyone also has the option to use the group finder to ask for assist in a specific skill style, while randoms should expect random playstyles

Absolutely everyone has access to the enhanced group finder, where they can state SPECIFICALLY what they are expecting from a run. Yet they keep spinning the wheel of fortune, acting all surprised that there are other play styles out there. Now, before the usual reflex argument sets in: speedrunners don't need the enhanced group finder, because they expect nothing from their group. They are ok with any composition.

why does nobody just admit yet that end game players join normal and vet dundeons to flame on people and get new players flaming

The idea that high CP players are wasting their game time in random normals because they want to flame low level palyers is just delusional. But it fits nicely into the narratives of players like you and OP. Always blame others. Never spend even a minute or a thought into the question what you could do to enhance your playing experience.

Let's remove transmutes from the normal dungeons and lock them behind veteran content. Good luck finding a low level group in under 2 hours. Or getting those transmute crystals to adjust your first set of gear.

and yet we see them doing it in random dungeons everday